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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sigras
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:02:00 -
[31]
couldnt you just lose standing with the corp in whos station the failed order is placed? that way: #1 the future brokers fees go up #2 there is a cumulative penalty for doing this
I know this doesn't fix the problem as there are throw away alts etc etc etc, but if the penalty was high enough, say 5% per instance, this would quickly become expensive.
additionally, margin trading should be one of those skills that you cant train on a trial account.
This would also make margin trading far more risky, but do you really think the import officer at that station would be happy if you ran out of money and failed a transaction so he had to clean it up?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.03 12:19:00 -
[32]
1) Eve is a competitive game, PvP exists in every aspect from alliances, ship to ship combat, industry and the Market. 2) These orders stand out a mile, anybody that trys to trade with has let their greed overcome their common sense. 3) Once spotted they can easily be turned to your own benefit. 4) No case has been made that anything needs to change.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.02.03 12:26:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 03/02/2011 12:26:14
Originally by: Thoraemond if they were not intended then surely they would have been found during testing and fixed before delivering the product.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt13OAYXhPU
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:11:00 -
[34]
Nah. Simple fix. Allow wallet to go negative.
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Matalino
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail Nah. Simple fix. Allow wallet to go negative.
Yes, that would fix things nicely:
- Create alt - Train margin trading - Place outrageous buy order - Fill outrageous buy order using main - Dispose of alt negative wallet - Repeat... - ??? - Profit!
There is no problem with the current mechanics. Broker fees are non-refundable. If someone repeatedly sets orders that they cannot fill they will need to pay those broker fees each time. In order for such manipulations to be successful, they need to generate more profit than the cost of the broker fees.
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Julii Hex
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Posted - 2011.02.04 02:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Julii Hex
Originally by: Blood Poison Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I was just curious abouth why the order disappear. I forgot the Margin trading skill.
I will be more carefull next time. As somebody mentioned there are enough ways to exploit such order.
Thanks.
That's all fine and good but how do you intend on being careful when there is no way to tell the difference between a legitimate order and a market order that will evaporate on you at the last second?
CCP needs to hire someone that has actually daytraded and knows the definition of these terms as well as their function.
Only trade in items which have a high volume traded? YOu will notice that all of these margin trade scams are done through items which have virtually NO history of being traded in Jita EVER.
Numbers don't matter margin is margin.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.02.04 05:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Thoraemond if they were not intended then surely they would have been found during testing and fixed before delivering the product.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt13OAYXhPU
Any chance you could fix your quoting error, Lederstrumpf? The text you quote was posted by the pilot trjcquee, not by me. á á
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:11:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Cearain on 07/02/2011 23:11:15 The ?exploit? only comes in to play when there is:
1) a buy order with a minimum of more than one item
and
2) itÆs a margin trade.
I have never made a buy order with more than one minimum item to be bought. So I admit I donÆt understand the utility of having a high minimum buy order (other than this tactic.)
What if you could not place a margin buy order with a minimum of more than one item? If your minimum is more than one item then the margin mechanic just doesnÆt work. Who would that hurt other than those who use this tactic?
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:41:00 -
[39]
minimum buys are useful when you're doing wide-ranging orders, so you don't get 1 widget in some system 20 jumps away when it's not worth it to haul without having at least 5000 widgets.
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Enraged Stoat
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Posted - 2011.02.08 04:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail Nah. Simple fix. Allow wallet to go negative.
This. +1
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Mercedes Hsu
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Posted - 2011.02.08 08:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ami Quinterocourse
and some people must be making a lot of money doing it.
<-- This guy.
I'm not sure if I scammed the OP or not, but I recognize one of the other names in this thread from my (alt's) wallet logs...
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Mercedes Hsu
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Posted - 2011.02.08 09:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
2) These orders stand out a mile, anybody that trys to trade with has let their greed overcome their common sense.
And God Bless them and the billions of ISK they've given me.
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.02.08 12:09:00 -
[43]
Well, OP, it's all "manipulation" of one kind or another.
Sometimes the manipulator plays the numbers right, making a huge profit, and sometimes he/she gets blindsided by an event he/she foolishly didn't take into account.
Moon minerals have recently seen some wicked manipulations. There's been some "rags to richs" stories -- and there's at least a couple of people who got greedy and stupid, as they are now holding overpriced inventories.
Boo-hoo. Just because the market looks empty of orders doesn't mean someone isn't holding enough inventory (in a hangar) of any particular material to flood the market, crush your manipulation and "steal" the profit.
IMO, that's the best part of Market PVP -- and it's working as intended.
-------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent. |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.02.10 04:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane minimum buys are useful when you're doing wide-ranging orders, so you don't get 1 widget in some system 20 jumps away when it's not worth it to haul without having at least 5000 widgets.
If that is the case then it would seem not such a big deal to not have the margin trade in those situations. I mean if you have multiple buy orders throughout a set of systems you are going to get items at different stations anyway. Its only when you have the single buy order throughout a set of systems where this comes into play.
The other option might be that if you have insufficient money in your wallet your ability to trade on margin is suspended for a a certian number of trades or time period. After all your credit should suffer right?
There have been many suggestions that could remedy this but it seems many people responding are using this tactic for their own personal gain. Its not a mechanic I would choose but since we don't have a choice it seems we might as well exploi... I mean make use of it. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Kilab Gercias
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Posted - 2011.02.10 15:47:00 -
[45]
Hmm just, place a check when the buy order is placed, is enough money there to buy the minimum --> Yes, buy order is okay and is placed. --> No, Buy order is not okay and not placed.
And after each transaction, the buyer wallet has to fill up the escrow again so the minimum can be sold to him. When there is not enough cash in the wallet -> Buy order is deleted.
Dada:
Margin Trading is still doable as intended, the scam is not longer possible.
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