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what happened to CTRL keypress = Overview freeze

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Johnny Guns	Posted - 2011.02.03 04:43:00 - [1] am i the only one who misses the ability to freeze the overview by holding down the CTRL key? is CCP aware that this ability was removed, and is CCP planning on restoring it?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.03 04:52:00 - [2] It turned inside-out. And exploded. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
n00n3r Caldari Malicious Destruction	Posted - 2011.02.03 04:58:00 - [3] it was working fine for me all day. Strange _____________________________________________ Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread here: Link
Frau Klaps Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.02.03 05:21:00 - [4] CCP ruined keyboard shortcuts and the overview and input in general along with several other game breaking innovations. ---
Hugo Myway	Posted - 2011.02.03 05:30:00 - [5] Edited by: Hugo Myway on 03/02/2011 05:33:53 Edited by: Hugo Myway on 03/02/2011 05:32:53 There've been other threads on it and there was an official aknowledgement of it (i believe) but... .. this does need to be bumped for "squeaking wheel gets the grease" reasons. This is a real playablity factor ... not the sort that gets the "omg they're messing with me" type outrage but more the expressed thought "pfft, i couldn't target the guys getting called primary, " the resulting feeling ~(feeling) not a very satisfying night (/feeling) the resulting action the following night: Playing the xbox or watching TV incrementally moving away Some things make people angry, some indifferent ... the second can be as tough for a business as the first. As people work differently, have different quickness in reaction speed, different vision qualities, some-one at the younger end of the bell curve and those with better vision won't think its much a problem.. but for a fair number, the ~change~ (that should head of "dumbing down even rebuttals -its a change) make the game that much less interesting to play... ... so, as a customer service company, don't trust your own opinions if you can manage fine, go try to get some feedback from those who might be more effected (start with your corp-mates who play who are over 40 )
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:00:00 - [6] Linkage afaik it works only when the overview itself has focus...and i think its a toggle now instead of a press and hold.....i could be wrong tho... its either that or it gets stuck in frozen/unfrozen if the overview loses focus -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:11:00 - [7] It is indeed a bug, and the fix is well on its way to Tranquility. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:32:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Spitfire It is indeed a bug, and the fix is well on its way to Tranquility. Good to hear it. I hope it comes sooner rather than later, since I've gotten used to it and doing things the old fashioned way is very cumbersome and accident prone in comparison.

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Originally by: CCP Spitfire It is indeed a bug, and the fix is well on its way to Tranquility. Good to hear it. I hope it comes sooner rather than later, since I've gotten used to it and doing things the old fashioned way is very cumbersome and accident prone in comparison. Should be really soon; I'm just afraid to give an exact date because apparently I jinx things every time I do that. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.02.03 10:37:00 - [10] ctrl + click to lock is a bit of a lucky dip if it will actually start to lock or not for me. Somtimes ctrl + clicking in space before clicking on the tragte you want liocks makes it work, more often but still not 'reliable' like it was, missed a good number of kills already.
Archesis	Posted - 2011.02.03 12:35:00 - [11] Seems this new client patch just fixed it
Cygnus Zhada	Posted - 2011.02.03 12:38:00 - [12] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Originally by: CCP Spitfire It is indeed a bug, and the fix is well on its way to Tranquility. Good to hear it. I hope it comes sooner rather than later, since I've gotten used to it and doing things the old fashioned way is very cumbersome and accident prone in comparison. Should be really soon; I'm just afraid to give an exact date because apparently I jinx things every time I do that. You just jinxed the jinx and because of that we'll end up in an infinite impossibility loop resulting in the fix never making it into TQ! --- Stultorum infinitus est numerus.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.03 13:16:00 - [13] CCP Spitfire, I'd like to tell you that there's another bug. I assigned CTRL+Q to quit the game (a default in the past afaik). It works but only after you logged on. If the connection drops or in any case that drops you back to the login screen, you must use the factory keybinding (something much more tedious) and not yours. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
ivar R'dhak	Posted - 2011.02.03 13:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Dr Fighter ctrl + click to lock is a bit of a lucky dip if it will actually start to lock or not for me. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I assigned CTRL+Q to quit the game (a default in the past afaik). It works but only after you logged on. Dito on the above two! I routinely have to hit the fricken right-click menu to get something locked. And yeah, stopped reassigning to the old ctrl-Q. Kinda got used now to the shift-alt-q. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
War Kitten	Posted - 2011.02.03 17:54:00 - [15] While you're fixing the CTRL key, please recognize the 'down' status of the key when the Eve window gains focus. It used to be I could be focused on another window (my 2nd eve client for instance), hit ctrl, and my first click was on the overview of the original Eve client, and I would instantly start targeting at the same time as giving client 1 the focus. Now - I have to click on the main client 1 Eve window, release the ctrl-key if already pressed, re-press the ctrl-key, and then click on an overview target. Somebody broke something (else) in the latest patch!
Cozmik R5 Minmatar Mobile Alcohol Processing Units Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2011.02.03 18:04:00 - [16] I don't want to be rude but CCP should have a new company slogan: "We fix stuff that works" ____________________ Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Fennisair Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.02.03 19:40:00 - [17] Are we going to get the same functionality for the new "Warp To" and "Jump/Dock/Activate Gate" shortcut keys? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If men make war in slavish obedience to rules, they will fail." ~ Ulysses S. Grant
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.03 19:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha CCP Spitfire, I'd like to tell you that there's another bug. I assigned CTRL+Q to quit the game (a default in the past afaik). It works but only after you logged on. If the connection drops or in any case that drops you back to the login screen, you must use the factory keybinding (something much more tedious) and not yours. That's because each login (or maybe even each character ù haven't checked that thoroughly) has its own setup, including its own keybinds. Before you've logged in, there are no settings beyond what you can get in the ESC menuà àand the ESC menu on the login screen unfortunately does not include keybinds, so you're stuck with the default keys. I wouldn't call it a bug, as such, but rather a thoroughly annoying oversight in how you can (or cannot) set up your client. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Calathea Sata	Posted - 2011.02.03 19:53:00 - [19] CCP break things -> CCP fix things -> CCP break things -> CCP fix things -> CCP break things -> CCP fix things -> CCP break things -> CCP fix things -> ...... WTF.
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Cozmik R5 I don't want to be rude but CCP should have a new company slogan: "We fix stuff that works" The old keyboard shortcut system was basically broken. It's improved in every way except for the bug with freezing the overview. Now you can actually bind keys to things instead of clicking on every damn thing. It's funny how many people complained about PI being a click-fest when the whole game was a click-fest. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Kyra Felann The old keyboard shortcut system was basically broken. It's improved in every way except for the bug with freezing the overview. àand that quite a few shortcuts don't work unless you have the exact right thing in focus (which may or may not be connected to the shortcut's function). There is apparently no "fall-through" for key-presses ù or if there is, it's highly erratic ù which makes a large part of the whole point of having shortcutsà wellà pointless. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kyra Felann The old keyboard shortcut system was basically broken. It's improved in every way except for the bug with freezing the overview. àand that quite a few shortcuts don't work unless you have the exact right thing in focus (which may or may not be connected to the shortcut's function). There is apparently no "fall-through" for key-presses ù or if there is, it's highly erratic ù which makes a large part of the whole point of having shortcutsà wellà pointless. I've noticed a couple of instances of this happening, but hitting ALT+SPACE will focus on the overview. Doing this seems to make sure keys do what they're supposed. I agree that some tweaks are in order, but it's still far better than it was. The only thing I really have to use the mouse for in space now is moving the camera around and access my cargo hold and the like. Maneuvering and combat can be done completely with the keyboard (or my G13 pad), which is what I've been wanting since I started playing in 2007. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Kyra Felann I've noticed a couple of instances of this happening, but hitting ALT+SPACE will focus on the overview. Doing this seems to make sure keys do what they're supposed. I agree that some tweaks are in order, but it's still far better than it was. Oh definitely. Once it works, and when it works intermittently right now, it is and will be glorious. It's just that interesting human condition making itself know, where something that is juuuuuust out of reach is far more annoying and aggravating than something that simply doesn't work at all. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:28:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Should be really soon; I'm just afraid to give an exact date because apparently I jinx things every time I do that. Pax.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.03 20:54:00 - [25] Quote: That's because each login (or maybe even each character ù haven't checked that thoroughly) has its own setup, including its own keybinds. Before you've logged in, there are no settings beyond what you can get in the ESC menuà àand the ESC menu on the login screen unfortunately does not include keybinds, so you're stuck with the default keys. I wouldn't call it a bug, as such, but rather a thoroughly annoying oversight in how you can (or cannot) set up your client. I know how it works, an oversight is still something that needs to be fixed. The easiest way (not necessarily the best) would be to load the last played account keybindings at startup instead of after the next log in. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.02.03 21:11:00 - [26] Originally by: War Kitten While you're fixing the CTRL key, please recognize the 'down' status of the key when the Eve window gains focus. It used to be I could be focused on another window (my 2nd eve client for instance), hit ctrl, and my first click was on the overview of the original Eve client, and I would instantly start targeting at the same time as giving client 1 the focus. Now - I have to click on the main client 1 Eve window, release the ctrl-key if already pressed, re-press the ctrl-key, and then click on an overview target. Somebody broke something (else) in the latest patch! This plz, thnx. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Arnar Jonsson	Posted - 2011.02.06 19:51:00 - [27] Edited by: Arnar Jonsson on 06/02/2011 19:51:48

CCP Optimal	Posted - 2011.02.06 19:58:00 - [28] As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved. The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.).

mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.06 20:12:00 - [29] Edited by: mkmin on 06/02/2011 20:15:03 Originally by: CCP Optimal As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved. The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). The problem is that if the overview does not have focus, ctrl-clicking to lock does not work. Other things that might have focus are empty space, chat windows, P&P window, etc. Also, if you use ctrl-drone commands and continue holding down ctrl, it no longer works for locking a target (this worked perfectly fine under the old shortcuts.) I'm also finding that 1-key commands will randomly trigger if I'm alt-tabbed between different clients, although that might just be due to all the accidental double clicks because of ctrl-click now being luck based. *edit - some of my language might be slightly trollish, but I'm just trying to communicate my user experience. It's making me wish I didn't get rid of my xbox.
NoNah	Posted - 2011.02.06 20:36:00 - [30] the fact that the client at all needs focus is really annoying for those of us who run multiple clients. It used to be hold control then click all the primary targets on the overviews of all clients, now instead you need to drop ctrl focus on the next client, hit ctrl hit the target and release ctrl again, rince and repeat for each client. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 860125

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2011.02.06 20:41:00 - [31] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: CCP Optimal As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved. The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). The problem is that if the overview does not have focus, ctrl-clicking to lock does not work. Other things that might have focus are empty space, chat windows, P&P window, etc. The issue is that CTRL locking works perfectly for both CCP Optimal and me. Have you, as an experiment, tried to temp. delete your cache and settings and see if the problem persists? In Windows 7 and assuming default locations then find the folder C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_(x86)_ccp_eve_tranquility and rename the folders cache and settings to cache_old and settings_old. Then start the client (it will start in full screen mode) and see if the problem continues. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Jocca Quinn Matari BackBone Fate Weavers	Posted - 2011.02.06 20:51:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Optimal Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). It is not that CTRL and click does not work, its that it does not work in the way it used to. Previously you could hold CTRL and click immediately. Now you have to hold CTRL and WAIT for the "LOCK TARGET click target" message to appear on your HUD BEFORE you can click on the target. I do not think it matters wether you are clicking on the overview or on the HUD. Reproduction is easy, hold CTRL and click onto something before you get the message, nothing will happen. TLDR - the new system introduces a delay into the CTRL and click, rather than CTRL + click it is now CTRL (count to 3) + click. JQ none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free
Lijhal	Posted - 2011.02.06 21:01:00 - [33] Originally by: Jocca Quinn TLDR - the new system introduces a delay into the CTRL and click, rather than CTRL + click it is now CTRL (count to 3) + click. JQ i second that! as far as i can tell most people (including me) want the old system, without the current delay, back.

CCP Optimal	Posted - 2011.02.06 21:22:00 - [34] I think some of the problems you are describing with the combat shortcuts not working at all might be related to a misunderstanding of how they are designed to work. There are two ways of using a combat shortcut: Holding the combat shortcut key down, and then clicking the desired entity to apply it to. This was basically just taking the old CTRL+click targeting functionality and applying it to other in-space actions Having focus set to the overview and just pressing the combat shortcut key (no mouse clicking required). This functionality was added for those who would like to do combat without using the mouse at all. Clicking an entity in space, and THEN pressing a combat shortcut key, will however not work, as this would probably end up with a lot of accidental command executions.


CCP Optimal	Posted - 2011.02.06 21:30:00 - [35] The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them.

mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.06 22:29:00 - [36] The shortcut bugs don't have anything to do with new shortcuts being added, at least as far as I could tell. They seem to have more to do with the old ctrl-click not working. I cleared out the new ones that seemed likely to result in accidental deaths (almost all the new ones.) One I was able to get 100% repeatable results with was the following behavior: Old way - hold ctrl - E (drones engage shortcut) - click to lock new targets - release ctrl new way - hold ctrl - E (engage) - release ctrl - hold ctrl - click to lock new targets - release ctrl -I've also seen what seemed like if you didn't wait for the 'lock target' message to come up, targets are less likely to lock. -Also as I've said before, there seems to be issues with going from the focus in one/no windows and trying to lock something on the overview not working. I get almost 100% reliable locking if I click the overview, then hold ctrl, then start locking targets, and very very poor reliability otherwise. Seems to me the issues some people are having are a combination of things. I am alt-tabbing multiple clients with Windows XP, specifically in a missions situation. I just cleared the cache files as instructed and will test again.
ChaseTheLasers Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.02.06 22:30:00 - [37] Edited by: ChaseTheLasers on 06/02/2011 22:32:44 CCP Optimal - How to replicate the focus issue: 1)Use a machine with dual (or more) monitors. It will make it much easier to replicate. 2)Load eve and get into a state where you can target something 3)CTRL + click to lock something 4)Click onto your other screen. It could just be your desktop or browser....doesn't matter. 5)Move your mouse back over the Eve window, but do not click on it. Now press control and select something to lock. 6)You will now hear the standard Eve selection sound being played - the game is picking up the mouse press fine. It will even alter the background of the item you're trying to lock to signify this, but it will not lock it. Work around: You must manually select the Eve window with a single mouse click first before step 5. This will now pick up CTRL+Click as normal. TL;DR - Eve will no longer pick up the lock shortcut CTRL + click if it is not in focus. This did not happen before the short-cut changes. Regards
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.06 23:48:00 - [38] After clearing my cache (manually), I experienced fewer overview/shortcut oddities. What I'm seeing now is that maybe a lot of the issues, such as the "wait to lock" might be the result of the new shortcuts being further away from the core code. General client-side perforance since the new shortcuts isn't as 'snappy' and quick since the expansion, especially where shortcuts are involved. If you try to issue a lock command before the client has sat down with a good book titled "ctrl is being pressed" it won't realize that you intend to lock somebody. Interesting side effects of this and other random UI glitches: -misplaced modules, my favorite is 2 tractor beams on 1 target with no way of telling which is actually doing the job -overview taking a good 30 seconds to respond to changes in sorting -ctrl-d (to recall drones) alt-tab, being interpreted by the client as alt-d (open scanning window) -tactical overlay not loading on undock, especially if you warp off before all the graphics load -tacitcal overlay having a random line that goes straight down from the ship into nothingness -not to mention the already mentioned accidental double-clicks trying to get the damned UI to respond. Normally I'd say maybe my computer just sucks (which it probably does) but seeing a decrease in performance without any improvements to justify it is just not cool.
Calathea Sata	Posted - 2011.02.06 23:54:00 - [39] CCP hire people to do the job yourselves; we're here to play the game, not to fix it for you.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.07 06:17:00 - [40] Still waiting for a dev response to the unreliability of ctrl-click, shortcuts, and such. How many people does the new mushy UI affect? Is getting it back to pre-incursion snappiness a priority for CCP at all?
Everinsearch	Posted - 2011.02.07 07:19:00 - [41] I bound space to "select overview". Now I hit space before I issue my keycommand q,s,w,ect... I like the new changes, and it is my belief that they have improved my ability to move greatly. It plays more like klingon academy did back in the day now. Using the same keys even that I used to approach or evade my target in that game. So for me in eve, I hit spacebar to select the overview, then the arrowkeys to move the highlight onto who I want to target, then I can press my target key (which I bound to T), and finally I run my fingers across all my Fkeys to pew pew. All of that without a mouse. And my one armed motherinlaw whos really old and likes to play eve on my account now and then can pwn people.
Kelkam	Posted - 2011.02.07 08:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Everinsearch I bound space to "select overview". Now I hit space before I issue my keycommand q,s,w,ect... I like the new changes, and it is my belief that they have improved my ability to move greatly. It plays more like klingon academy did back in the day now. Using the same keys even that I used to approach or evade my target in that game. So for me in eve, I hit spacebar to select the overview, then the arrowkeys to move the highlight onto who I want to target, then I can press my target key (which I bound to T), and finally I run my fingers across all my Fkeys to pew pew. All of that without a mouse. And my one armed motherinlaw whos really old and likes to play eve on my account now and then can pwn people.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.02.07 10:21:00 - [43] Originally by: CCP Optimal The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them. I'm suffering from an intermittant bug (as in, it does not always occur) when attempting to CTRL+click a target that has an unlockable state. i.e. something just came out of warp -> ctrl + click -> get invulnerable message That is the normal part, the buggy part is, if the target changes states to being lockable, CTRL + click will still not lock the target UNLESS I first let go of control and then try again. Annoyingly this has cost me two ships already :/
Zaotome	Posted - 2011.02.07 11:15:00 - [44] i didnt read all posts, but want to mnetion my observations... i run 3 clients running on 3 different monitors pressing ctrl-klick to lock target works as long as the cklick goes to the overview of the client with the aktive focus but if you ctrl-click on a client without focus it doesnt really work my workaround is to aktivate the focus on the client with a single click into space and then lock my target(s)
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.02.07 11:26:00 - [45] Im still experiencing the ctrl+click lock bug, some times it wont lock the target at all, somtimes theres a delay before a click locks and somtimes works as it used to (no delay instant lock count down)
Sienna Bara	Posted - 2011.02.18 23:53:00 - [46] Yeah the Ctrl + click to lock targets in multiple eve clients require you to activate the specific client first then ctrl+click. It didnt use to be this way and its rather irritating when you dualbox. If things need to happen quickly and you forget to activate the right window can be costly. I hope CCP can sort it out so we dont have to spesifically activate the client we want to ctrl+click in.
Everinsearch	Posted - 2011.02.19 00:25:00 - [47] Again the new controls are awesome. TYVM. Need head-tracking for camera view/mouse emulation, and a couple keys for drones and its perfect. Having targeting issues? Bind a key to target rather than control clicking. Only time you control click is when you need to select multiple items.
ChaseTheLasers Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.07 00:01:00 - [48] bump Any progress replicating this CCP Optical? Many thanks
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.07 00:15:00 - [49] Sounds like 2 issues. 1) The code isn't keeping track of a pressed ctrl/shift/alt key as being down until released. Separately to other keys. Instead it would appear that the code is looking for keys in combination, if the ctrl hasn't been pressed again for each combination it doesn't count as being held. 2) The code is only monitoring keystrokes within the focused window. For ctrl/shift/alt this should be a Windows API hook to track these keys beyond the Eve client.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.07 12:13:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: mkmin Originally by: CCP Optimal As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved. The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). The problem is that if the overview does not have focus, ctrl-clicking to lock does not work. Other things that might have focus are empty space, chat windows, P&P window, etc. The issue is that CTRL locking works perfectly for both CCP Optimal and me. Have you, as an experiment, tried to temp. delete your cache and settings and see if the problem persists? Have you, as an experiment, tried to press and hold CTRL when the EVE client is not the active window and then, while still holding down CTRL, clicked on a lockable target in your overview? I wouldn't call that working perfectly.
white kight Galaxy Punks En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.07 16:42:00 - [51] @ CCP Optimal, try to replicate this by running eve in windowed mode, click out of eve, then try to do ctrl click, it used to work before the shortcuts change but not now, hope that helps you to replicate it. I run dual clients on dual monitors, so am clicking between the 2 all the time and when i try to ctrl click on the other client to the one i am using it fails to do anything, yet it used to. Hope this helps!!! Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.03.07 18:06:00 - [52] I play with multiple monitors, clients etc.. (It would really take away from play without at least a map up on another monitor) the thread is good in that when I'm selecting another monitor, it sounds like i should always select that monitor by first clicking on the overview and THEN control clicking if i want to lock. More worysome is that the pressing control doesn't reliably keep the order of the overview from shifting. I guess any time I clicked on anything else, I need to re-select the overview , then after it is selected hold control. Freezing the overview is a vitally important tool for those of us with a bit worse eyesight (even with glasses, focusing on a given line takes abit longer) and with slower fast-twitch muslces that can't handle a spastically jumping overview. I hope I can get it to work consitently.
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.07 19:52:00 - [53] run 2 3 or sometimes even 4 clients. now i have to click client ctl lock, let go of ctrl, click next client ctrl lock. let go fo ctrl, click next client ctrl lock... it never was this way. pls put it back to hold ctrl, click client 1 2 3 4 target on all 4 clients
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.08 00:43:00 - [54] Understand it now CCP? Able to duplicate? Need more? * Revert to Windows API key hooks for monitoring key combinations regardless of window focus.
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:19:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Optimal Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough?
Rasz Lin Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Im Blue do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough? they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:38:00 - [57] Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 09/03/2011 02:44:20 Any progress? edit: Last you left as with was "working as intended" which is clearly not the case, please confirm you recognise the bug now.
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Rasz Lin Originally by: Im Blue do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough? they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example They are hiring new QA interns so shut up and go help catch these bugs then I would totally apply but I've got other commitments... -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.09 09:26:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Optimal The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them. you are wrong, targeting on more than 1 client is delayed. have you been able to test this yet? any fix yet?
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.09 09:50:00 - [60] Originally by: Xercodo Originally by: Rasz Lin Originally by: Im Blue do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough? they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example They are hiring new QA interns so shut up and go help catch these bugs then I would totally apply but I've got other commitments... Oh, so you are the one with the legitimate reason for not taking the job and not having to shut up?! Glad to meet you at last. I also love how "Years of EVE Online gaming experience" is just as a good as "A BSc degree in Computer Science or related field". I mean hiring policies have never any effect on the final product... "We're looking for someone who's totally into cables as head of your network maintenance teams. If you don't love cables some BSc in a related field might do as well. Drop us a line to discuss the details..."
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.10 07:51:00 - [61] have you confirmed the bug with more than 1 client and ctrl lock yet?
Alotta Baggage Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail	Posted - 2011.03.10 08:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Dr Fighter ctrl + click to lock is a bit of a lucky dip if it will actually start to lock or not for me. Somtimes ctrl + clicking in space before clicking on the tragte you want liocks makes it work, more often but still not 'reliable' like it was, missed a good number of kills already. Do what I do, hold Ctrl then click like Michael J. Fox Originally by: Valkoinen Heteromies I for one would love to be able to walk on stations and fly spaceships in the body of a little cute catgirl!
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.11 01:17:00 - [63] Michael J. Fox for CSM, he'd get something done, few can say no when you've got the shakes.
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.11 10:35:00 - [64] any update on the fix for the ctrl lock issue?
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.12 11:20:00 - [65] Have you been able to reproduce the CTRL lock issue with the instructions/hints provided in this thread?
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.12 16:44:00 - [66] id bet they have found the bug and cant fix it, so are staying quiet. would be nice to be proved wrong and get a reply
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.13 10:16:00 - [67] "Hey Users, isn't it awesome, we're here communicating with you, lets check this problem out, looks fine, working as intended." "um..... no dude...... read again" silence.......................... So we can assume by this that this has been added to the "Fix when we finish World of Darkness" list?
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.14 10:01:00 - [68] Have you managed to reproduce this bug yet?
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.14 20:40:00 - [69] tumbleweed passes by Low-hanging fruit anyone?
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.03.14 21:11:00 - [70] As of yesterday I was having no issues. Ctrl freezes overview as usual, Ctrl+left targets whatever I click, in both overview and space. When something dies while I'm holding Ctrl, it goes gray as normal. Summary: Not sure why people are continuing to necro this thread. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.14 22:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Lost Greybeard As of yesterday I was having no issues. Ctrl freezes overview as usual, Ctrl+left targets whatever I click, in both overview and space. When something dies while I'm holding Ctrl, it goes gray as normal. Summary: Not sure why people are continuing to necro this thread. the problem is when using 2 clients or more. you cant lock in teh same way as before
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.15 06:35:00 - [72] Originally by: Lost Greybeard As of yesterday I was having no issues. Ctrl freezes overview as usual, Ctrl+left targets whatever I click, in both overview and space. When something dies while I'm holding Ctrl, it goes gray as normal. Summary: Not sure why people are continuing to necro this thread. Wow, you can't read AND don't know what "necroing a thread" means!
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.15 22:59:00 - [73] So, a problem was identified, CCP partisipated in the discussion and told us it was "working as intended". Further posts assured CCP that it was not in-fact "working as intended" but has been incorrectly coded. CCP then vanishes from the discussion never to return. Just bump the thread and say "we understand it now" please CCP, silence is not an effective means of communication.
white kight Galaxy Punks En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:27:00 - [74] Gues CCP Optimal has abandoned us Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2011.03.16 02:26:00 - [75] Originally by: white kight Gues CCP Optimal has abandoned us He would lock the thread but he can't CTRL-click it.
Korthan Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.16 07:19:00 - [76] I pvp on a regular basis and this simply plagues myself and many of my corpm8s as well. If you don't have the overview tabbed or set focus on (or whatever it's called) then doing ctrl+click does not work like it used to. The game has to then set focus on the overview before it starts working. Before these 'optimizing performance' and 'innovative UI' designs were implemented I had ZERO problems with ctrl+clicking on the overview to lock. This makes pvp a bit more of a pain when things don't work as advertised and then ccp developers/gms come along and go "it works for us so it must work for everyone else. Clear cache since that solves every problem known to man and try again; It's working as intended" which is complete crap. Get proper feedback from the people who actually play the game on a regular basis and have to come up with extra ways of coping because someone has their head up where the sun doesn't shine when deciding to fix something that is not broken. That or get a real QA team that actually does some testing and not pretend testing before releasing things. Pray 4 Villains 2
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:14:00 - [77] its clear who ever tested this dosnt have 2 accounts running at the same time as they would clearly found this bug. come on ccp its not hard to reproduce this. everyone i know with 2 accounts has noticed this, how the hell havnt you?
Moozh Vozmozhno	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:15:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP Optimal The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. I think the inconsistency that bothers most people is not the chat windows intercepting keyboard input, but the fact that the overview itself has focus behavior independent of any other window, even windows which don't accept full character input, like the Show Info window, or anything else really. When the overview has focus and you have a target highlighted, you need only tap the appropriate hotkey to warp to, orbit, approach, etc., and the command will immediately go through. However, when the overview does not have focus, you need to hold the key down and click on the object you want to interact with (either in space or on the overview or in your target locks). I think the way it should be designed is if you tap one of these hotkeys and have an active overview target, it should perform the action on that target (regardless of whether the overview window has focus). If you wish to manually choose a different target for your command, just hold the button down and click as normal. This way, tapping the hotkeys without overview focus will actually do something instead of doing nothing. It's unnerving to have to always keep a mental track of what has the current focus. An example of where this bugs me is traveling. In a system, you click on the stargate, then tap S to warp to. While warping, you maybe check the market, talk to your corpmates, etc. When you arrive at the stargate, you'd like to press D to warp, but you have to perform a click either by holding D and clicking on the stargate, or clicking on the stargate in the overview and tapping D. Basically, too many clicks!
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:26:00 - [79] Originally by: Ban Doga Wow, you can't read AND don't know what "necroing a thread" means! There are two breaks in the thread exceeding a week, meaning that people didn't care enough to keep it on the main page, but someone decided to bring it back from the dead. 2/07 to 2/18 2/19 to 3/07 That's what it means, man. I'll buy that I reading-comprehension failed a bit in assuming that people were still complaining about the original topic when apparently the discussion has moved on to another issue, though. Fair enough. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Moozh Vozmozhno	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:44:00 - [80] Originally by: Im Blue its clear who ever tested this dosnt have 2 accounts running at the same time as they would clearly found this bug. come on ccp its not hard to reproduce this. everyone i know with 2 accounts has noticed this, how the hell havnt you? Wow you guys are really whiny... I can confirm that holding CTRL before giving the game window focus will require you to release and re-press the CTRL key in order to utilize it as a modifier. Most DirectX games using DirectInput will exhibit this behavior, it may not have anything to do with CCP code. That's not to say they can't find a work around or fix it, but it's possible they won't since it's only a small inconvenience to a small percentage of the player base. I use multiple accounts simultaneously but don't have this problem because I ALT+TAB back and forth, which transfers to the input focus. The only people who will encounter this problem are people that don't ALT+TAB since they most likely have multiple monitors and they just move the most from one window to the other. Basically all you have to do as a work around is click on the window first to give it focus, then CTRL+click (or press ALT+TAB while you're moving the mouse). I wouldn't really say this is a bug. But asking for a workaround could definitely be called a "feature request".
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.16 15:14:00 - [81] Edited by: Barakkus on 16/03/2011 15:14:33 Originally by: CCP Optimal As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved. The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered. Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.). The ctrl + click happens when the over view window does not have focus when performing the action. Once you explicitly give the window focus before attempting to ctrl click then it works. Most notably happens when running two clients. If the second client has focus then you try to ctrl click the first client's overview, the command isn't registered until you actually left click once on the overview window. It's a windows thing though, I have that happen with normal windows applications, and it's hard to code around from my experience without writing stupid crap for handling specific windows messages. edit: the above is the case of running 2 clients on separate monitors. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.17 00:14:00 - [82] Originally by: Lost Greybeard There are two breaks in the thread exceeding a week Those are the breaks where people are waiting for the CCP response that is yet to come. The fix is simple, literially about 5 lines of code. Alt, Ctrl, and Shift keys need to be Windows API hooked so they are tracked regardless of what has focus.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.03.17 01:24:00 - [83] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 17/03/2011 01:26:38 And for more hilarity, run two clients. Start locking targets in one client, then click the other client's window. Now release the CTRL key, then click on something in the first client window. CTRL will stick "on" in the first client and "off" in the second client until you frob the CTRL key for each client. I.e.: in first client, press and release the CTRL key. Now switch to second client, press and release the CTRL key. No more CTRL+click, you now have to CTRL+click+release. And of course double-click in the overview still approaches the target, and the double-click detection ignores anything except clicks. So if you realize that CTRL is stuck off, you have to frob CTRL, wait half a second, then click. All other actions should reset the double-click detection. -- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
rofflesausage	Posted - 2011.03.17 11:11:00 - [84] bumping this important topic
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:05:00 - [85] Originally by: Moozh Vozmozhno Originally by: Im Blue its clear who ever tested this dosnt have 2 accounts running at the same time as they would clearly found this bug. come on ccp its not hard to reproduce this. everyone i know with 2 accounts has noticed this, how the hell havnt you? Wow you guys are really whiny... I can confirm that holding CTRL before giving the game window focus will require you to release and re-press the CTRL key in order to utilize it as a modifier. Most DirectX games using DirectInput will exhibit this behavior, it may not have anything to do with CCP code. That's not to say they can't find a work around or fix it, but it's possible they won't since it's only a small inconvenience to a small percentage of the player base. I use multiple accounts simultaneously but don't have this problem because I ALT+TAB back and forth, which transfers to the input focus. The only people who will encounter this problem are people that don't ALT+TAB since they most likely have multiple monitors and they just move the most from one window to the other. Basically all you have to do as a work around is click on the window first to give it focus, then CTRL+click (or press ALT+TAB while you're moving the mouse). I wouldn't really say this is a bug. But asking for a workaround could definitely be called a "feature request". it worked fine before the incusion patch, now its a pain to run more than 1 account theway i use them. its not whiny to point out a mistake ccp have over looked when they state its working as intended
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:57:00 - [86] Originally by: Lost Greybeard Originally by: Ban Doga Wow, you can't read AND don't know what "necroing a thread" means! There are two breaks in the thread exceeding a week, meaning that people didn't care enough to keep it on the main page, but someone decided to bring it back from the dead. 2/07 to 2/18 2/19 to 3/07 That's what it means, man. OMG, over one full week! Still adding answers to such a thread? How dare they!?!? We can only hope the new forums will auto-lock threads that have been dead for such a long time. I mean, who could even remember the original issue...
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.18 00:22:00 - [87] Optimal? "We get it now, not working as intended, will be patched"?
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.03.23 02:46:00 - [88] CCP Optimal? Any progress in working out if this is "working as intended" or a bug?
BlackSail	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:00:00 - [89] I got the same problem... with this latest 1.6 patch it got worst... I couldn't CNTRL + click in space before, but I could select on the overview specifically first and then hit CNTRL... Now I can't do either after this patch. I have cleared cache's and reset all shortcuts to default. It's been weeks and I think my head will explode... and if it does im taking ccp with me... nuclear head explosion.
Aeronwen Carys Empire of Dust	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:36:00 - [90] This is STILL an issue?
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.01 11:37:00 - [91] That was probably removed maybe to fix the annoying bug of when you exit warp, and click something on the overview, it locks as if a key is pressed but isnt (and no it is not stuck). Tappign CTRL fixes that known bug. I hope they fixed it.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.01 12:05:00 - [92] Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 01/06/2011 12:05:57 Originally by: CCP Optimal Having focus set to the overview and just pressing the combat shortcut key (no mouse clicking required). This functionality was added for those who would like to do combat without using the mouse at all. I really dislike this feature and if it is coming back again, I wish that there will be option to disable it. Reasons: 1. Having something selected in overview and alt tabbing to another program will result to an accidental "look at" command. When alt tabbing back to EVE, camera is very often pointing to some random object in space,. 2. Having something selected in overviw and pressing control key accindently targets stuff what I don't really want to target. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
BlackSail	Posted - 2011.06.01 14:29:00 - [93] ok I just downloaded the mini-patch after this past downtime.. They have fixed the CNTRL + click in space.. That works... but the overview is still broken. Here is what I can do.. and its the only thing that works with the overview. I can click and hold the target, then press and hold cntrl, then release the mouse button to target. I CANNOT press cntrl first as it should though, and this is in no way intuitive. I really home it is fixed soon. It took me like 15 mins of playing with this to figure it out.
5nake pliskan Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.01 15:04:00 - [94] Originally by: BlackSail ok I just downloaded the mini-patch after this past downtime.. They have fixed the CNTRL + click in space.. That works... but the overview is still broken. Here is what I can do.. and its the only thing that works with the overview. I can click and hold the target, then press and hold cntrl, then release the mouse button to target. I CANNOT press cntrl first as it should though, and this is in no way intuitive. I really home it is fixed soon. It took me like 15 mins of playing with this to figure it out. lol that aint the half of it, many of us have to click the overview every session or you dont see correct ranges, recticles or whos who in space. Jump into a blob on a gate and have no clue until you click the overview tab that they are all red or in your own fleet or corp. be happy that your only problem is alt :) ------------------------------------------------ There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers just exactly what the universe is for and why we are here, that it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Then there is a theory which states that this has already happened. á á -Douglas Adams ------------------------------------------------

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