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Species 8472	Posted - 2005.01.27 09:04:00 - [1] Now i never complain or whine but Fountain Alliance have really upset me :) A member of colusp whom has been playing for 1 year 8 months logged off as he warped to us from another gate. He dissapeared we jumped to other gate waited for him to log back on he finally logged back on. As we jumped in he logged off again and never appeared at the postion where he should of .????? Why are these cowards useing exploits should i name this char wtf ????? "The Weak Will Perish".
DB Preacher	Posted - 2005.01.27 09:17:00 - [2] According to the GM's, that's not an exploit. They can't tell the difference from people logging off from peole CTD'ing so they don't bother. You'll get used to it but it never gets any less annoying. You should come up north and see the crap you get up north... dbp Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
scorchio	Posted - 2005.01.27 09:40:00 - [3] blimey.. dont think i have ever heard species complain on the forums b4. but he does have a point. we were fighting spacecrawler from 4s and he did exactly the same thing. he logged when we had him and our ceptors couldnt finish him off in time, so we waited in the next system on the gate and when he logged back in, we jumped through and finished him off. while we were doing that he logged again. i wish something could be done about this problem, but im not gonna hold my breath.
Rift Scorn	Posted - 2005.01.27 10:47:00 - [4] Originally by: DB Preacher According to the GM's, that's not an exploit. They can't tell the difference from people logging off from peole CTD'ing so they don't bother. You'll get used to it but it never gets any less annoying. You should come up north and see the crap you get up north... dbp This is so true, it really does need to be seen to be beleived! 20-30 Man fleets have been know to get 1 Jump from BKG- and upon arrival and seeing that shockingly they aren't just allowed to stroll in, they pull a mass log off, apart from 1 smack-talking local alt scout It is by far the lamest excuse for a tactic i have ever seen, and what i consider to be a blatant abuse of the game mechanics. They then log back on, and try to gank any stragellers; i can't remember the last time i saw a proper fleet fight out of a certain alliance - you know who you are!
DoctorDanny	Posted - 2005.01.27 11:20:00 - [5] Log-out tactics are annoying the crap out of everyone as can be witnessed by the many threads about them. Somehow though the devs are avoiding these threads like the plague. I wonder why really.
hired goon	Posted - 2005.01.27 11:42:00 - [6] Because there's no solution? ------------ We come in peace. And tanks.
Sill	Posted - 2005.01.27 11:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Rift Scorn Originally by: DB Preacher According to the GM's, that's not an exploit. They can't tell the difference from people logging off from peole CTD'ing so they don't bother. You'll get used to it but it never gets any less annoying. You should come up north and see the crap you get up north... dbp This is so true, it really does need to be seen to be beleived! 20-30 Man fleets have been know to get 1 Jump from BKG- and upon arrival and seeing that shockingly they aren't just allowed to stroll in, they pull a mass log off, apart from 1 smack-talking local alt scout It is by far the lamest excuse for a tactic i have ever seen, and what i consider to be a blatant abuse of the game mechanics. They then log back on, and try to gank any stragellers; i can't remember the last time i saw a proper fleet fight out of a certain alliance - you know who you are! GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG what Alliance would that be then?
Lig Lira	Posted - 2005.01.27 11:50:00 - [8] Originally by: DB Preacher According to the GM's, that's not an exploit. They can't tell the difference from people logging off from peole CTD'ing so they don't bother. You'll get used to it but it never gets any less annoying. You should come up north and see the crap you get up north... dbp uhm... Which PA character are you? That's no flying saucer, that's my ass!
Ordo Abchao	Posted - 2005.01.27 12:10:00 - [9] Well, if the guy is dumb enough to log out/back in quickly, you can send frigates to the nearby gates/scan planets for him, because he will be at a celestial object unless it's a very long warp (1800 au's would make him disapear before he hit the celestial object for example). But logging to save your ship is, to say the least, a plague, have it happen at least 3 times a day for myself. Mind you it is extremely rare that they survive. Order out of Chaos
Fistie	Posted - 2005.01.27 12:51:00 - [10] Originally by: hired goon Because there's no solution? Theres a simple solution, when the game suffers a fatal exception, its logged. So im sure ccp could patch the client to send a packet to a server when the interrupt request is called by user not from an exception. Then they can check if groups of the same alliance, corp or whatever all log within the same couple secs. ---------------- sniping snipers My Mega Modal Pulse love nuggets hit 'your mum'[heh] on the chin doing 0.4 damage
Layrex	Posted - 2005.01.27 13:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Layrex on 27/01/2005 13:41:31 Why not simply do what's the norm in other MMO's? You have to 'camp', where it takes a minute or two to log out, and in that time doing anything cancels the camp?
Gaius Kador	Posted - 2005.01.27 13:45:00 - [12] Unfortunately, a lot of players dont mind being a coward. ----------------------------------------------
hired goon	Posted - 2005.01.27 14:37:00 - [13] Edited by: hired goon on 27/01/2005 14:41:43 Originally by: Fistie Originally by: hired goon Because there's no solution? Theres a simple solution, when the game suffers a fatal exception, its logged. So im sure ccp could patch the client to send a packet to a server when the interrupt request is called by user not from an exception. Then they can check if groups of the same alliance, corp or whatever all log within the same couple secs. Yeah, because CCP are really going to allocate the time and staff to check all that And what about if the player loses ISP access or her computer crashes? Both will log as being called by user. And even if you are right, and CCP do what you say, it doesn't count individuals who face death and log, as only group logons will be checked. ------------ We come in peace. And tanks.
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.27 14:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Species 8472 Now i never complain or whine but Fountain Alliance have really upset me :) A member of colusp whom has been playing for 1 year 8 months logged off as he warped to us from another gate. He dissapeared we jumped to other gate waited for him to log back on he finally logged back on. As we jumped in he logged off again and never appeared at the postion where he should of .????? Why are these cowards useing exploits should i name this char wtf ????? umm maybe he had a session change just before he ctd/logged off and therefore didn't go to the place he came from? :p ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Fistie	Posted - 2005.01.27 15:13:00 - [15] Originally by: hired goon And what about if the player loses ISP access or her computer crashes? Both will log as being called by user. And even if you are right, and CCP do what you say, it doesn't count individuals who face death and log, as only group logons will be checked. well i thought the main problem was group tactics of alliances etc logging off and on at strategic moments. If _a_ player loses conn then it wouldnt be looked at because its only _one_ player, and the likelitude of an entire group of peeps being on the same isp - which goes down - just before they ctd isnt exactly likely is it? ---------------- sniping snipers My Mega Modal Pulse love nuggets hit 'your mum'[heh] on the chin doing 0.4 damage
Inigo Firebird	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:23:00 - [16] When engaged in a PvP action with any none Npc controlled ship log out time should be extended example 2 mins. If yor unlucky enough to loose your connect then tough, you should have put yourself in that kind of situation and so suffer the consequences If engaged with Npc should log out as it is as more likely to be a connection fault.
MrMorph	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:32:00 - [17] Its all bad ISPs, believe me, i know. Most of CEI CTD 5-6 times a day. The weird part is that every time they reconnect, another BS in eve dies. sniff ---------------------------------------------- Trishys cookies they are !
Gepard	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:38:00 - [18] yer, it must be soooooo annoying Bit like noob mining ops being ganked and podded by 'PvP' griefers. its so unfair. Boohoohooo.
Mrissa Easeah	Posted - 2005.01.27 18:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Mrissa Easeah on 27/01/2005 18:25:23 Originally by: Gepard yer, it must be soooooo annoying Bit like noob mining ops being ganked and podded by 'PvP' griefers. its so unfair. Boohoohooo. No comparison. I'm not a PvP'er by choice. All my battles are -forced- on me and I fight out of necessity. If my opponents are going to go out of their -way- to make me fight, they'd at least do me the courtesy of playing the bloody game intelligently rather than resorting to reneging on the bet that they can take me through RL non-game mechanics. Mining ops getting wiped by PvP'ers are only going to get wiped by making critically bad choices (no scouts, no safespots, no guards, not watching local, not sticking to safe areas to mine, not doing any of a -thousand- different things to improve their chances.). To be a peaceful person in this game, you have to play -paranoid- or stick to the safe areas of Empire. If you're warred upon unfairly, there are options as well. You cannot play this game half asleep ... unless you're lazy enough to go to the route of cheating by wimping out when you get jumped and logging once combat's engaged.
S3VYN	Posted - 2005.01.27 18:49:00 - [20] Edited by: S3VYN on 27/01/2005 18:50:42 Originally by: Rift Scorn Originally by: DB Preacher According to the GM's, that's not an exploit. They can't tell the difference from people logging off from peole CTD'ing so they don't bother. You'll get used to it but it never gets any less annoying. You should come up north and see the crap you get up north... dbp This is so true, it really does need to be seen to be beleived! 20-30 Man fleets have been know to get 1 Jump from BKG- and upon arrival and seeing that shockingly they aren't just allowed to stroll in, they pull a mass log off, apart from 1 smack-talking local alt scout It is by far the lamest excuse for a tactic i have ever seen, and what i consider to be a blatant abuse of the game mechanics. They then log back on, and try to gank any stragellers; i can't remember the last time i saw a proper fleet fight out of a certain alliance - you know who you are! Wow... Rift and I agree... the apocalypse is upon us! I started a thread a few days back to try and get EVERYONE who had a problem with this tactic united in one place. There have been a lot of different threads where 10-20 people post but CCP won't pay attention to just 10-20 people complaining (even if they are on the same subject). However, if we can all get together on the same thread, maybe we can get their attention. The thread may be found by clicking here. Feel free to leave your opinions on that thread. I took a shot at a recommendation for a solution and there have been some great comments on the pros and cons of that solutions as well as some great ideas. Please take the time to read the thread to try and understand the problem and then make a recommendation or support one of the existing ones. Once there is enough support I plan on bugging CCP until the grease the squeaky wheel. Also worth seeing is some video a few of our pilots put together of one aspect of this tactic being used... and overcome. See that by clicking here. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.01.27 18:57:00 - [21] Originally by: MrMorph Its all bad ISPs, believe me, i know. Most of CEI CTD 5-6 times a day. The weird part is that every time they reconnect, another BS in eve dies. sniff If any of our pilots disconnects in combat to avoid losing his ship, please eve-mail any proof to me and the respective pilot will be dealt with. Otherwise, please leave your silly smacktalk and flamebait to local as you usually do.
p0rnstar	Posted - 2005.01.27 20:28:00 - [22] a fleet mass logging off and logging back on later isnt an exploit, unless they are actually in combat at the time. At the moment dont ships stay for a while if some1 logs off? I think ships should stay in space for 15mins after logging off, if some1 really ctd they would log back in straight away. It sometimes takes me up to 10mins to log into eve and i crash alot during combat of more than 20ships and i think its pretty fair. Tenacha Khan ~0~
jamesw	Posted - 2005.01.27 23:14:00 - [23] If a ship is warp scrambled beyond any stabs it has, it should not be able to disappear. I don't care if he sits there for half an hour - the ship is not going anywhere. Modules that have been set on auto should remain active, any drones it has out should continue to attack. Also, when you have just logged off one char, any chars on the same account can not be used until the original char is "safe". I know this allows for the possibility of having an inty web/scramble a battleship for 15 minutes while he waits for reinforcements, but hey, 15 minutes is long enough to get back in game, kill an inty, run to a stargate - your choice. If I lost a BS to an out of game problem (CTD, net disconnect etc) I would be annoyed, but that is the sort of reason I purchase insurance. I would much rather see a decent in-game solution that avoids ships disappearing than have an infallible way of retaining my ship if combat is not going my way. Losing ships to a CTD is bad, but people logging off during combat is worse. Talk about an immersion breaker. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Randay	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:03:00 - [24] ships stay for about 2 minutes i believe. also modules stay activated if they are on cycle. so during those 2 minutes they are repairing and hardening. An apoc with a full tank (or better) will probably never be killed if the person just logs every time. Not that anyone does that i hope, i am just saying that it could be done.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.01.28 02:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Randay ships stay for about 2 minutes i believe. also modules stay activated if they are on cycle. so during those 2 minutes they are repairing and hardening. An apoc with a full tank (or better) will probably never be killed if the person just logs every time. Not that anyone does that i hope, i am just saying that it could be done. That is correct, unless the pilot logs an alt onto the same account (definate exploit). If they do that their ship will disappear instantly. The problem is that 2 minutes is not nearly enough. If the logoff timer is increased, we would see (in my opinion) less pure ganking, and more frigate raids. I was involved in a fight against an Apocalypse battleship where the pilot did not logoff, and it lasted almost 15 minutes!! We had him triple webbed and -6 warp scrambled, as well as target jammed - he could do nothing. We had a Crow, a Stiletto, an Incursus and a Scorpion all attacking him, however it took forever to get through his armour. Had the pilot been a tard and logged off, he would have easily saved his ship because of the 2 minute timer. On the other hand last week, we engaged an FA Megathron (pilot was spacecrawler iirc), who initially fought back. He webbed and fired on one of our tacklers, however when another 2 interceptors and a Prophecy were attacking him, he logged. We were able to get him down to around 30% structure before... poof... his ship disappeared into thin air. Other than the second pilot logging off, these 2 engagements are essentially identical engagements: A BS is -6 warp scrambled, double or triple webbed and essentially powerless to fight back. Regardless of logging or a CTD, they should have BOTH ended in destruction of the ship, however one did not. It doesnt matter if he stayed logged on for 5 or 35 minutes - he should die either way. Thankfully for us we got SpaceCrawler due to pilot stupidity as 10 minutes later, he logged on and auto-warped back to us. We engaged again, and he logged.... again!! This time we got the ship kill, as he did not have enough armour to last the full 2 minutes. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
NumBerGuy	Posted - 2005.01.28 03:36:00 - [26] Why not make it that if you dont login after 15 mins ur ship returns to the last place you docked at.
Arekuwa	Posted - 2005.01.28 03:49:00 - [27] Originally by: NumBerGuy Why not make it that if you dont login after 15 mins ur ship returns to the last place you docked at. So... you go somewhere... pick up some loot/mine a bit... log off ... and magically all the stuff has been transported god knows how far.
NumBerGuy	Posted - 2005.01.28 03:50:00 - [28] Edited by: NumBerGuy on 28/01/2005 03:50:52 or why not if ur out for longer than 15 all modules turn off
jamesw	Posted - 2005.01.28 04:00:00 - [29] Originally by: NumBerGuy Edited by: NumBerGuy on 28/01/2005 03:50:52 or why not if ur out for longer than 15 all modules turn off But you still have your ship when it would have otherwise died!!! If I were the type to log out and save my ship, I would not be dissuaded from doing it just because my modules would be turned off! People log off to save their ship when they are in what they assume to be an unwinnable fight. Thus, the fight should not end prematurely. If they CTD during a fight (hasn't happened to me in a loooooong time), their modules have remained active and they should be able to log back in in time to finish. If they had stabs on, they would get away anyhow, and be returned to the fight location automatically. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
vanBuskirk	Posted - 2005.01.28 10:47:00 - [30] I agree that CCP ought to do something about logoff as a tactic. At the same time as they do something about mass Teamspeak logons. Which I am sure can be detected, and is strictly against the EULA, which makes it a bannable offense. The latter will never be stopped, because it favours pirates. If CCP don't favour pirates, why don't they simply arrange that no weapons will work against other players you are not at war with in 1.0 or 0.9? A simple solution to disposable suicide alts, which will never get used. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent". ----------------------------------------------

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