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Do I just suck or is Caladari really that powerful/liars?

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Vacrivin	Posted - 2011.02.08 15:40:00 - [1] So I'm a gallente pilot with 28ish mil skill points. I made most of my money with mining in 0.0 a long time ago. I decided to try mission running after I came back from an extended leave and my corp ceased to be. I 6 mil in drones, 3.8 mil in gunnery, 10 in mil shippery. I read up on different builds, and even threw a faction fitted navy domi together with all faction/officer mods. Yet even then when doing missions I come out with maybe like 15 million an hour. I hear people in tengu's ect boasting things such as 300 mil an hour (i'm calling bs on that). Or 100 mil, ect ect. I am running level 4 quality 13 missions. What is it I am not getting, or am I about average and everyone else just lies about how much isk they are making?
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:06:00 - [2] 80-100mph might be possible in highsec if you were really good. The fact that you get 15mph shows you've got a long way to go. 50m/h is trivially easy and achieved by anyone not completely terrible.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:08:00 - [3] Well, a few things come to mind. First, a gank Domi is actually a difficult boat to use to full effect. You have to really know the missions, position your sentries properly, make damn sure you're popping the right rats at the right times, etc. Second, your gunnery skills need work. Drone skills look alright (I'm assuming SDI 5 and DI 5 along with good sentry supports). But you really do need rock solid gunnery supports and T2 425s (or neutrons depending on the mission) to get the most out of a Navy Domi. Third, even that 100 mil number for missions takes LP into account. How is your conversion rate? A little market research (and some Social skill training) can go a long way to bumping your ISK/hour. (Oh, and as a side note: it's not just Caldari. In fact, the Machariel seems to be the fotm for missions right now -- and for good reason .)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Zhilia Mann (Oh, and as a side note: it's not just Caldari. In fact, the Machariel seems to be the fotm for missions right now -- and for good reason .) You haven't seen anything until you've seen a nightmare / paladin nom Sansha/BR rats. 300 mil in anything is definitely BS. Nobody makes that. Anybody that does is full of crap. Players making 100m are dual boxing usually, it's way hard to get more than that with a solo pilot. 15m/h is you doing it wrong, plain and simple. Mission income is a lot more than just the bounties that tick in your journal. Use your LPs, decline empire-faction missions if you aren't looting and salvaging them, etc. Your agent isn't that good either. Try to get a quality 16 or above in a .6 or .5 system. Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:29:00 - [5] Dualboxing is possible to make up to 150mph in highsec, about double that in lowsec. Difficult but doable.
Potato IQ	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:51:00 - [6] There is a lot of garbage on what is and isnÆt a realistic isk/hr figure. I will say that 15k is a bit low though With a high lvl agent in Gallente space with the 2 division connections at 5/5, you can be looking at 8K LP +/- 700 for the bigger missions like AE/GE/Worlds Collide. Ignoring bonus rooms, these can be done in 45 mins comfortably, so with the common (these again look to be greatly inflated by some, but possibly not) conversion of 1k isk/LP, thatÆs 8m. Bounties range from 15 to 25m. As you can see, much better than 15k with bounties and LP conversion, but then you donÆt get these one after the other unless you take the standing hit by declining until the good ones come up. A dangerous way to play with just the one agent as you will likely lose the ability to use, and moving around agents means you will likely be dropping down agent level for each move and your losing isk earning with the time taken jumping about I used to have an aim when having a blitz night of gaining 30k LP in the session. This was declining all faction but taking any courier and drone (no bounties suck) and going straight for the completion objective unless it was a high bounty target one. I could do this in 3 + to 4 + hours depending on the run. So your looking at 7500 LP an hour = 7500m. Bounties would net me from 50 to 80m, so with 65m average(ish) I would be looking at 17m, so total per hour around the 25m. I would also get a storyline every 2 days, so gaining the usual 20 - 24m implant adds to the earnings. I even had a 140m drop once. Sadly it was only once Can this be improved? Most definitely. I know my LP conversion was not that great, but I took the easy and quick option. Running a CNR with high missile skills and +5 missile implants was effective, but I never skilled for the Golem, but could see the missions that the high DSP/close quarter ships would have sped up the missions significantly. Fleeted with a couple of Nightmare pilots quite a bit and was continually shown there hit logs which made me sick, but again illustrated the damage that was possible from these machines which would again bring those big mission times right down as a solo pilot. ItÆs also why itÆs my soon to start skill plan for WH plexing IÆm sure the Domi is effective when you have the skills, but I didnÆt like it, although had poor gunnery skills and was still working on T2 sentries. I switched to a Rattlesnake and invested in some quick cruise skills. IÆm not quite as fast as my CNR pilot, put this is without using Fury or any attributes fitted, so IÆm expecting the same results when IÆm at a similar skill level but with the added bonus of a very comfortable ship to pilot. Maybe look at similar change with the view to going down the CNR/Golem route. CanÆt comment on the Machariel as never flown, but may be your quicker course to a missioning monster
Richard Christy	Posted - 2011.02.08 16:54:00 - [7] Probably a bit of both.
Vacrivin	Posted - 2011.02.08 17:23:00 - [8] I may have been underreporting. maybe more like 30 nil an hour and I've never considered pp in my calculations. simply because when I look at the market in lp I don't see anything that looks that profitable
Nuela	Posted - 2011.02.08 19:44:00 - [9] Edited by: Nuela on 08/02/2011 19:47:18 I am a Caldari Mission runner. Yes, Caldari can run missions better than other races IMO. You can tailor both attack and defense specifically to the mission you are running...a nice advantage. As for the Isk/hour...I am probably your 'normal' Eve mission runner that has specifically been designed to run missions for isk. I haven't completely geeked out and tried to maximize and get the so called 100millionplus isk per hour etc. I have, however, spent much time getting skills up and designing my ship to run missions well. When I run missions I run them efficiently IMOàHowever I donÆt use 2 characters, I donÆt turn down missions unless they are courier. ItÆs just me and no games. Isk per hour? On certain missions the bounties can run 10-12mill per 20 minutes (30-36 Mill per hour). Others it might be 6-8 (18-24 mill per hour). I would say that the average bounty isk is 10 mill per 20 min so say 30 mill per hour. This is if I do not salvage. If I salvage then the bounties will go downàbut the reprocessed loot makes up for it (or I wouldnÆt do it). I have maxed my Social skills in regard to loyalty points. I would say the LP is about 35,000-40,000 LP per hour. Now, people use a 1000-1 isk to LP conversion rate. While I have not done much research into this (I still use my LP to buy MYSELF cool stuff) I find this is probably too high. Maybe there is a way to get itàor maybe people are not counting the isk cost like I do (forgetting the isk cost of items in the storeàor the cost of dog tags that they could sell) in their calculation but a quick LP to isk dump looks to be about 650-700 isk. If you take the 700isk and the 40K per hour that is 28 mill isk. Call it 30 mill. You can see that LP is a VITAL part of missioning. You also get mission rewards. This is probably about 12-15 mill per hour. Now, if you salvage this will be less but, in my experience, salvaging with a Noctis on select missions will at least equal out what you miss in bounties, LP and rewards. Add this this up and you get 70-75 mill per hour. However, I like to goof around and check stuff out, get distracted by wife and kids , phone, take breaks etcàso in reality I probably consistently net 60 mill per hour. This is my no-BS answer 
Zarko Dreadlor	Posted - 2011.02.08 20:02:00 - [10] humm, well 2 things come to mind, w-space (you can make a few hundred million with a few good tengu crew) spider tanking S95a's and level 5's. If you wanna run L4's don't expect that much in payout. Be lucky in high sec if your making 50mil ISK / hr... Thats not including setup time etc, regardless if your in a tengu or not.
LeSabre	Posted - 2011.02.08 21:13:00 - [11] Edited by: LeSabre on 08/02/2011 21:14:08 No worries mate, it is totaly cool not to earn hundreds of millions per hour. isk per hour is the carebears e-peen. My numbers are: - two to three missions per hour is not bad at all. - i can do up to 20 mil per tick => 60 mil per hour in bountys alone if i can kick some blood raiders ass in 0.0 So heads up and read your mission reports... cya P.S. Yes i am Gallente too Yes i do use Hybrids Yes Caldaris may be better at PVE but they SUCK ;-)
Nuela	Posted - 2011.02.08 21:34:00 - [12] Originally by: LeSabre Yes Caldaris may be better at PVE but they SUCK ;-) In your dreams!
Agnar Snaggrsdottir	Posted - 2011.02.09 13:02:00 - [13] Chuck Norris is Caldari
Fractal Muse	Posted - 2011.02.09 13:28:00 - [14] Usually the ISK per hour number that mission runners on the forums post is their best rate that includes everything (LP conversion) and ignores downtime (moving to a new mission location / returning to the station.) Take what people say in terms of ISK per hour with a grain of salt. I've never seen anyone who truly and consistently makes 100 million ISK / hour if you take into consideration everything. That being said, there is still a significant amount of ISK to be made running level 4s when you are careful about which missions to run and then blitz them.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.02.09 14:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Vacrivin simply because when I look at the market in lp I don't see anything that looks that profitable You should consider changing to agents from another corp then. Depending on how you run missions lp can be your main source of income. When I used to do missions I was never looting/salvaging but only chaining missions. I was dualboxing and I'd say lp was the biggest part of my income. Unfortunately I never bothered to compute isk/hr as I was primarily looking to boost my faction standing. As for the domi well it's just not that good in terms of dealing damage which is all efficient mission running is about imo. Tanking missions is trivial so you want to have as much gank as possible. Domi isn't well suited as a gunboat really and as such doesn't profit from damage mods the way other ships can. Sure the drones somewhat make up for it but you'll have to do a lot of scooping/sentry drone hugging. The gallente sentries also have terrible range iirc. If you want to look into other options I'd say look at armageddon/apocalypse/abbadon/paladin/nightmare. They all can be excellent damage dealers (ofc. primarily for drones and sansha/blood) for running missions. I prefer to run pulse boats but for example the nightmare is also excellent with beams. In many missions you will be able to kill everything before even having to tank anything (literally) if you have a hi skilled amarr char. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Care Bear King	Posted - 2011.02.09 14:29:00 - [16] Edited by: Care Bear King on 09/02/2011 14:29:08 Reply fail, need more coffee. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1465131
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.09 15:01:00 - [17] Get tech 2 sentries, that will fix up your Domi DPS and put the missions on easy mode for you.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.09 15:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Vacrivin I may have been underreporting. maybe more like 30 nil an hour and I've never considered pp in my calculations. simply because when I look at the market in lp I don't see anything that looks that profitable http://www.ellatha.com/eve/LP_Stores.asp ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Vivian Ramasita	Posted - 2011.02.09 18:03:00 - [19] Originally by: LeSabre isk per hour is the carebears e-peen. THIS. Also there was an interesting thread on Kotaku the other day about video game lies. Yes, carebears lie about isk/hr. It's easy to lie about it, because it's impossible to verify.
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.02.09 18:21:00 - [20] Rule #1 of the Intarwebz: people lie. Period. Dunno why it matters to them so much to be king of the hill, but whatever.
Starshi	Posted - 2011.02.09 23:16:00 - [21] Edited by: Starshi on 09/02/2011 23:18:27 http://www.prikachi.com/images/376/2967376j.jpg This + ~4mil in loot/salvage WHILE doing the missions( slacked a bit even ) + 20k lp from rewards. That makes ~60mil with 1:1k lp converson (~1:1,3-4k is best at this factio). I'm playing only for a month and flying t2/faction fitted paladin. I used to do missions in dominix before the paladin, but i really hated it, because it's a drone boat. I used 5xmeta4 350mm railguns + t2 gardes, hammerheads and hobgobs and i did pretty well which was 720 dps on eft.
Hyperion Qi	Posted - 2011.02.10 00:43:00 - [22] Edited by: Hyperion Qi on 10/02/2011 00:44:40 I hope that 600 isk per lp was a joke. Counting all costs and selling 10% below market price (inpatient) you can still easily get over 1k per lp. Also some people have enough faction standings that Corp standings don't matter and they can decline missions all day.
Misanthra	Posted - 2011.02.10 01:16:00 - [23] drone boats are "safer", cheaper pve....just not isk per hour monsters. Safer in that the tank like beasts. I fly rattler, same thing as domi except its passive shield vice perma rep. Still an "afk" capable tank. Wife needs something I can walk away for a few minutes and be good. I would not do that in a max gank cnr...you have to watch the tank and pulse it as needed. Cheaper as well. Year and half of eve...I'd say it safe to say between drakes, ravens and tengu I have 100's of millions of isk in ammo costs before I gave rattler a go. Drones and Sentries assuming you wathc them and recall them from aggro shifts to them...1 time buy and months to years of isk making at no cost (sell them when bored for what you paid...it was free dps). Slower isk per hour though. My rattler max skills everything (drones and cruise missiles) is not touching a max skill gank cnr let alone golem dps. Longer mission times, less isk per hour. Still good though. I burned out on raven pve, tengu was fun but burned out on that too. Trying sentry boat for a change. take my isk per hour hit but also aren't eating furies up like candy (tengu burns these up fast in a good mission blitz lol).
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.10 12:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Wet Ferret Your agent isn't that good either. Try to get a quality 16 or above in a .6 or .5 system. Gallente, we don't have that kind of combat agents.
Red Raider Caldari Evil Dead L.L.C. DEM0N HUNTERS	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Starshi Edited by: Starshi on 09/02/2011 23:18:27 http://www.prikachi.com/images/376/2967376j.jpg This + ~4mil in loot/salvage WHILE doing the missions( slacked a bit even ) + 20k lp from rewards. That makes ~60mil with 1:1k lp converson (~1:1,3-4k is best at this factio). I'm playing only for a month and flying t2/faction fitted paladin. I used to do missions in dominix before the paladin, but i really hated it, because it's a drone boat. I used 5xmeta4 350mm railguns + t2 gardes, hammerheads and hobgobs and i did pretty well which was 720 dps on eft. BS 5 takes longer than you have been playing.
Annubi	Posted - 2011.02.10 17:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Annubi on 10/02/2011 17:55:13 Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/02/2011 13:09:35 Originally by: Wet Ferret Your agent isn't that good either. Try to get a quality 16 or above in a .6 or .5 system. Gallente, we don't have that kind of combat agents. Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Vacrivin simply because when I look at the market in lp I don't see anything that looks that profitable You should consider changing to agents from another corp then. Depending on how you run missions lp can be your main source of income. Again, Gallente, most stuff in the LP store is subpar. In my opinion most of the stuff in the Caldari and Amarr LP store is superior. For the few items were the Gallente LP store "shine" (like a 10 watt bulb) the demand is mostly covered by Sepentis factions drops with the same stats, so getting a good exchange rate for most Gallente corps LP is hard. So what's stopping you from going to another agent and running those missions? Sure, you have the build up time to get to decent missions, but if you can't find anything you want to sell the in the LP stores that you have access to now, then in the long run the downtime you have getting your standings up will be paid for in increased ISK from LP in the future. Edit: This is from the point of view of a Domi pilot - being able to tank and deal any kind of damage = flexibility that makes up for lack of isk/hour running only the "right" kind of mission, IMO.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Annubi So what's stopping you from going to another agent and running those missions? Sure, you have the build up time to get to decent missions, but if you can't find anything you want to sell the in the LP stores that you have access to now, then in the long run the downtime you have getting your standings up will be paid for in increased ISK from LP in the future. Edit: This is from the point of view of a Domi pilot - being able to tank and deal any kind of damage = flexibility that makes up for lack of isk/hour running only the "right" kind of mission, IMO. Sure, I can do plenty of Minnie missions without having to redo my standing from -5 but a Domi is not a good ship against Angels and the rest of the Gallente lineup is simply lousy against them. It is much more efficient for me to have my Caldari alt running missions for me while I do other stuff. What I was pointing out is that the different races missions, agents and stores are not equal ant that is one of the reasons why we have Caldari ships and Caldari agents dominating the PvE part of the game.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.02.10 18:57:00 - [28] Edited by: Myra2007 on 10/02/2011 18:59:35 Originally by: Venkul Mul Again, Gallente, most stuff in the LP store is subpar. In my opinion most of the stuff in the Caldari and Amarr LP store is superior. For the few items were the Gallente LP store "shine" (like a 10 watt bulb) the demand is mostly covered by Sepentis factions drops with the same stats, so getting a good exchange rate for most Gallente corps LP is hard. That's definitely a problem that should be tackled by ccp. However I'd say it reinforces my point that he should consider changing corps because it could take eons to fix. I didn't necessarily say another gallente corp. edit: and yes that would also mean he should change ships but the domi really isn't such a great mission boat in the first place imo - so crosstraining to amarr or caldari would be the way to go if at all possible -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.10 20:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Agnar Snaggrsdottir Chuck Norris is Caldari Yes, but his Master, C.S. Kim, is Minmatar.
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:52:00 - [30] At higher SP levels, Minmatar -> Caldari for L4 mission spamming. Caldari BS are just very easy to train for and to fit reasonably well and will be forgiving for less skilled players. An 800mm AC fitted Maelstrom will outperform almost anything other than a Machariel (basically a tech 1.5 Mael) or a Nightmare/Paladin. It just takes skillz to get there, that's all.

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