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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
GlKudr
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Posted - 2011.02.15 13:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: GlKudr on 15/02/2011 13:29:02 Edited by: GlKudr on 15/02/2011 13:28:43 Hello!
I want to present idea to add percentage tax to any order change in the market the same way it is present in the contracts.
For example you sell X for 100.000 isk you pay 1%. Than if you want to set price 99.9999 you should pay another 1% from the whole price. This tax can be affected by skills but cannot be remove completely.
Why is it necessary?
All we know that normal buy/sell operations now are totally screwed by market bots and no-life players which are going 0.01 isk game leaving no space for casual traders.
It is good idea to have them think about their prices, not only mechanical outbid until they reach the bottom.
This idea is widely supported in russian community. And I think it is the technique which can greatly helps to improve this part of the game and moreover is a very simple in realization.
The original russian topic: http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=65178&st=0&start=0
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Show Info
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Posted - 2011.02.15 15:54:00 -
[2]
Market bots are a problem indeed. This idea probably may become a little step on the big job of cleansing bots from EVE. At least for market bots - to reduce a number of 0.01 isk order changings. If each change will be fined by a tax, it would be a bit easier to trade for non botting people.
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Davader
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Posted - 2011.02.15 15:58:00 -
[3]
This topic should be moved to Assembly Hall.
For the idea itself - I support it.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.15 16:42:00 -
[4]
Moved to the Assembly Hall on the request of the OP.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Svyatagor
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Posted - 2011.02.15 17:57:00 -
[5]
Unsupported. It's perfect how as is now, pretty same as real stock exchange market.
Quote: This idea is widely supported in russian community.
Lie. It's at least 50/50
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Red Raider
Evil Dead L.L.C. DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2011.02.15 19:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Red Raider on 15/02/2011 19:18:36
Originally by: Svyatagor Unsupported. It's perfect how as is now, pretty same as real stock exchange market.
Quote: This idea is widely supported in russian community.
Lie. It's at least 50/50
We are not buying stock. Selling merchandise in real life has real cost overhead and in this game the overhead is so small it's irrelevant. Hence the .01 isk game. As it is now the person with OCD and no life wins.(unless a bot is in play)
Honestly they should be taxing highsec transaction a hell of a lot more than they do. Both for the isk sink and to drive trade towards null allowing those willing to move the goods and take the risk to profit more than those that sit in the safety of high sec gaming a system that would never exist in real life.
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.02.15 22:11:00 -
[7]
Supported. It would kill alot of the .01 games by driving their margins to 0 for each change they make.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.16 04:01:00 -
[8]
This would be a stupid change. There is already plenty of room for "casual traders" to make billions of ISK/month. I should know - I do it.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.16 05:53:00 -
[9]
stupid change
helps no one
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Z800XV
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Posted - 2011.02.16 06:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Z800XV on 16/02/2011 06:31:11 signed. also wanna to see progressive tax for selling items when u setting a time for orders. concept: example if u set order for 3-7 days, tax will be "100" isk and if u set order for 3 month, it will be "1000" isk. coz now nothing changeing then set order for 3 days or 3 months.
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn stupid change helps no one
agree with u, my "clever" botowner ))))
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.02.16 07:22:00 -
[11]
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Steel Head
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Posted - 2011.02.16 08:35:00 -
[12]
I agree with this idea trade bots to hell
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The Darker
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Posted - 2011.02.16 09:18:00 -
[13]
Support
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Jeal Tersen
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Posted - 2011.02.16 09:19:00 -
[14]
I'm supporting the idea.
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Jester Elm
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Posted - 2011.02.16 09:20:00 -
[15]
Agree with GlKudr
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Davader
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Posted - 2011.02.16 09:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn stupid change helps no one
LOL, here we can see a trade bot owner. Whazzup mr. botter?
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Svyatagor
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Posted - 2011.02.16 09:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn stupid change
helps no one
this.
All who supported this idea are latent carebears with no life and want to make the game a nobrainer and easy. Go play wow.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2011.02.16 10:03:00 -
[18]
pwn those market bots
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Adiu Tor
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Posted - 2011.02.16 10:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Adiu Tor on 16/02/2011 10:20:52 While I am all for going after market bots, I dont agree with the op.
Undermining the 0.01 game has only one result --> broken prices.
Its already happening to often, that some fool reduces his price by insane 500,000 isk, cutting the margin by 2/3. The next one follows and soon we have prices which are under 105% of the material value and no longer worth selling.
Doing the 0.01 helps keeping the prices stable over a long period and hence keeping up the earnings of all traders who do this. They have to update their prices more often, but thats the price to earn more isk.
As a casual trader you should probably think of changing the product you want to sell. If it has a 0.01 change about 50 times an evening, one requirement to work with this product is obviously not to do it casually. |
Z800XV
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Posted - 2011.02.16 10:22:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Z800XV on 16/02/2011 10:22:24
Originally by: Svyatagor
All who supported this idea are latent carebears with no life and want to make the game a nobrainer and easy. Go play wow.
I luv your butthurt. ☻ |
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jita10
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Posted - 2011.02.16 11:57:00 -
[21]
bots must suffer +1
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Ivanauskas
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Posted - 2011.02.16 13:18:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ivanauskas on 16/02/2011 13:23:38 Against this, And let me explain why.
The idea that is offered is presented within the framework of war with trading bots. This motivation is a good one, but the actions that should be taken by the idea of the topic-starter make me shiver.
Seems like he didn't took even a minute to watch one step ahead to predict what is going to happen with present market regulation schematics. Obvious that this will make the market more static. The rate of tax offered is irrelevantly huge and will make honest traders go away from the market. If this kind of change is going to be applied, some of the players will not ever find their place in Eve university if they were attracted by live market regulations that are working now.
I'm pretty sure that CCP knows about trading bots problem, but I'm also sure that this is NOT the right way to fix this problem.
Be careful before supporting dangerous ideas surrounded by loud disclaimers like "This will remove trading bot problem". This sounds funny.
= P.S. It is strange to hear that all the people who are against this are "bot users". Be honest with your arguements, please. (This is regarding "widely supported in russian community" (c) - these words are not true).
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Claude Jorgen
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Posted - 2011.02.16 15:23:00 -
[23]
For this, And let me explain why.
The idea that is offered is presented within the framework of war with trading bots. This motivation is a good one, and the actions that should be taken by the idea of the topic-starter make me hurrah.
Seems like he took many a minute to watch one step ahead to predict what is going to happen with present market regulation schematics. Obvious that this will make the market more fluid. The rate of tax offered is relevantly huge and will make honest traders flock to the market. If this kind of change is going to be applied, some of the real players will find their place in Eve university if they were attracted by live market regulations that are working now.
I'm pretty sure that CCP knows about trading bots problem, and I'm also sure that this is the right way to fix this problem.
Be joyous before supporting excellent ideas surrounded by loud acclaimers like "This will remove trading bot problem". This sounds great.
= P.S. It is not strange to hear that all the people who are against this are "bot users". Be honest with your arguements, please. (This is regarding "widely supported in russian community" (c) - these words are absolutelly true).
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Random Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.16 15:38:00 -
[24]
I bet that 90% of market load is created by .01 ers with only about 10% of load being created by new orders.
Having the ability to freely reduce prices by .01 leads to a very static market where it takes forever for products to reach there equilibrium value.
The markets are for everyone not just "Traders" cough "bots".
A Proper solution would be to allow players to place managed orders we pay a broker fee but the broker does nothing.
I should be able to tell my broker.
Sell this much stuff. Sell it in this amount of time. Sell it for as much as possible but for not less than xxx
The broker should then manage the sell price until all the stuff is gone.
This solution would make market bots irrelevant.
Having said that the above solution would require a server in the tranquility cluster to process the orders on a periodic basis.
Better this than the current situation of load inducing bots which are 1) against the Eula 2) cause strain on all parts of tranq including proxies/sol nodes/and the db.
The tax solution is not perfect but would be easier to implement. so this gets my support although I prefer to see a fuller solution ( brokers that work for there fee's )
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My name is
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Posted - 2011.02.16 16:09:00 -
[25]
The idea is good, the frequent change of market orders should be followed with taxes.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.02.16 16:57:00 -
[26]
This really isn't necessary. There is plenty of profit in the market for the casual trader and there is nothing wrong with active market players having advantages. If you feel botting is a big problem than think of ways to fight the bots and not fudge up the normal market gameplay in the process. Not suported.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.16 17:43:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/02/2011 17:43:03 There are four problems here: - People expect "passive trading" to be equally lucrative with "active trading". This is stupid. - People believe it is the same person 0.01 ISKing them in Jita, when in reality there are thousands of other REAL PLAYERS involved in that market. - People believe that nobody sits there and monitors their buy/sell orders except bots. And themselves, of course. - People believe that "market bots" are taking over, yet I personally don't believe this to be true. Market bots are pretty easy to discover, identify, and then manipulate for amazing amounts of profit.
But for the sake of argument, I'm going to give you a quick tutorial in "passive trading" that makes sense, and ISK. This is how I make billions on the market.
First, you have to remember that the market has a natural fluctuation. It goes up, and it goes down... and because it goes up and down we know that static orders between the end points WILL get filled. The trick, then, is to find the upper and lower bounds and exploit them with "AFK buy/sell" orders.
When doing this, you have to remember that the majority of your ISK is made from your BUY ORDERS - so Margin Trading and Tycoon are really important to get a good wide spread on your buy orders. With a reasonable number of buy orders you'll see some market action on most days.
You can immediately relist the stuff as lowest sell for usually 10-20% profit, but I tend to relist at the higher end of the curve for closer to 50-100% profit. It can take a week or more for the market to cycle back up that high, but you were wanting an AFK passive income right?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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DlMFlRE
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Posted - 2011.02.16 18:01:00 -
[28]
Edited by: DlMFlRE on 16/02/2011 18:01:11 +1
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.02.16 18:28:00 -
[29]
Hell no, find other ways to kill bots.
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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.16 18:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Red Raider Edited by: Red Raider on 15/02/2011 19:18:36 Lie. It's at least 50/50
We are not buying stock. Selling merchandise in real life has real cost overhead and in this game the overhead is so small it's irrelevant. Hence the .01 isk game. As it is now the person with OCD and no life wins.(unless a bot is in play)
Honestly they should be taxing highsec transaction a hell of a lot more than they do. Both for the isk sink and to drive trade towards null allowing those willing to move the goods and take the risk to profit more than those that sit in the safety of high sec gaming a system that would never exist in real life.
I agree with your second point here but the first one is incorrect as while yes selling merchandise has overhead changing the price of merchandise has absolutely no overhead. Also, if you want to reflect this on real life, taxes are not collected on anything until the transaction takes place and then the buyer pays for it like the current system. The current brokers fee of 100isk provides an already decent isk sink for every change in a market order. If you feel we need more isk sinks increase that number to 1000isk but a % fee on placing and changing a market order is wrong and will inevitably lead to huge inflation (prices will rise). ------ Support Manalapan for CSM!
Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger
Manalapan Campaign |
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