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Market orders change tax

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Red Raider Caldari Evil Dead L.L.C. DEM0N HUNTERS	Posted - 2011.02.16 18:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Adiu Tor Edited by: Adiu Tor on 16/02/2011 10:20:52 While I am all for going after market bots, I dont agree with the op. Undermining the 0.01 game has only one result --> broken prices. Its already happening to often, that some fool reduces his price by insane 500,000 isk, cutting the margin by 2/3. The next one follows and soon we have prices which are under 105% of the material value and no longer worth selling. Doing the 0.01 helps keeping the prices stable over a long period and hence keeping up the earnings of all traders who do this. They have to update their prices more often, but thats the price to earn more isk. As a casual trader you should probably think of changing the product you want to sell. If it has a 0.01 change about 50 times an evening, one requirement to work with this product is obviously not to do it casually. If I choose to list my goods at a price that gives incentive for them to sell quickly then I am taking a profit loss for a quicker return. I don't give a damn about your margin. It's pvp get used to it. If bots didn't mindlessly .01 isk then my stock would sell out at the price of my choosing and you could continue to get your inflated long term margins.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.02.16 19:05:00 - [32] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/02/2011 19:06:59 Originally by: Red Raider If I choose to list my goods at a price that gives incentive for them to sell quickly then I am taking a profit loss for a quicker return. I don't give a damn about your margin. It's pvp get used to it. If bots didn't mindlessly .01 isk then my stock would sell out at the price of my choosing and you could continue to get your inflated long term margins. If "bots" didn't 'mindlessly' 0.01 ISK you, someone else would place another sell order 500k below yours. And another below theirs. And another below theirs. -Liang Ed: The "problem" here is that two people like you are fully capable of crashing a market - and both of you are going to come to the forums ***ing about bots while a bot wasn't involved at all. And no, I don't care if you crash markets... just means that I can pick up the pieces on the cheap. -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
nugget906	Posted - 2011.02.16 21:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/02/2011 19:06:59 Originally by: Red Raider If I choose to list my goods at a price that gives incentive for them to sell quickly then I am taking a profit loss for a quicker return. I don't give a damn about your margin. It's pvp get used to it. If bots didn't mindlessly .01 isk then my stock would sell out at the price of my choosing and you could continue to get your inflated long term margins. If "bots" didn't 'mindlessly' 0.01 ISK you, someone else would place another sell order 500k below yours. And another below theirs. And another below theirs. -Liang Ed: The "problem" here is that two people like you are fully capable of crashing a market - and both of you are going to come to the forums *****ing about bots while a bot wasn't involved at all. And no, I don't care if you crash markets... just means that I can pick up the pieces on the cheap. That would be a healthier market, more responsive to market equilibrium. You can't "crash" a seller's market below highest buy order price. 0.01 isk war results in wide gaps between buy and sell orders and lower overall volume of actual trades.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.02.16 21:53:00 - [34] Originally by: nugget906 That would be a healthier market, more responsive to market equilibrium. You can't "crash" a seller's market below highest buy order price. 0.01 isk war results in wide gaps between buy and sell orders and lower overall volume of actual trades. No, that would not be a healthier market. And no, they do not result in wide gaps between buy and sell orders. If anything, the suggested change would INCREASE that gap as playing the market becomes more expensive. And make no mistake... that would be the only change. You'd still get under cut... but now you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Sol Vento	Posted - 2011.02.27 18:41:00 - [35] +1 I like this idea
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.27 19:21:00 - [36] Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 27/02/2011 19:21:16 Market bots are a myth. Well, maybe not and a few people developed them, but its unlikely they would ever share. So, for the most part you're whining about active traders, who shouldn't be punished for being active (or having no life if you will - that's already a punishment).
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.02.27 20:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 27/02/2011 19:21:16 Market bots are a myth. Well, maybe not and a few people developed them, but its unlikely they would ever share. So, for the most part you're whining about active traders, who shouldn't be punished for being active (or having no life if you will - that's already a punishment). Incorrect, market bots are very real, and widely distributed. Why one of the sources of mining bots is selling one for a monthly cost akin to the one CCP charges. They are certainly very, very real. As a trader I think the system needs to change but this is no solution. I can just put up smaller batches and instead of moving orders in price just list more stock as we price war. So in effect this makes the person with the largest item stack the winner every time as he will be able to set more orders and win the market, while the opponent will have to relist and eat the whole profit of his items up. By the way, most items have profit margins that are under 5%, 1% is ridiculous. Not supported.
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.27 21:04:00 - [38] Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 27/02/2011 21:03:44 Originally by: Tutskii Incorrect, market bots are very real, and widely distributed. Why one of the sources of mining bots is selling one for a monthly cost akin to the one CCP charges. They are certainly very, very real. About 3 minutes of efficient research tell me that what I say is true. I doubt you can back up what you say.
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.02.27 21:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 27/02/2011 21:03:44 Originally by: Tutskii Incorrect, market bots are very real, and widely distributed. Why one of the sources of mining bots is selling one for a monthly cost akin to the one CCP charges. They are certainly very, very real. About 3 minutes of efficient research tell me that what I say is true. I doubt you can back up what you say. Probably not on the forum as it is forbidden to talk about these things, and certainly, to give out where they are found. I can, however send a evemail for informative purposes should you be uncapable of "efficient researching google", or you can simply put the name of the game followed by what you are looking for in google, and see for yourself whether or not such a program exists or is sold. The thing in question was the first result for me, ymmv.
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.27 21:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Tutskii Probably not on the forum as it is forbidden to talk about these things, and certainly, to give out where they are found. I can, however send a evemail for informative purposes should you be uncapable of "efficient researching google", or you can simply put the name of the game followed by what you are looking for in google, and see for yourself whether or not such a program exists or is sold. The thing in question was the first result for me, ymmv. I'm fairly capable. Odds are you fell for that 'scammer' loudmouth (not sure what to call it). It's the first result I get with all viable queries. Better luck next time.
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.02.27 21:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa Originally by: Tutskii Probably not on the forum as it is forbidden to talk about these things, and certainly, to give out where they are found. I can, however send a evemail for informative purposes should you be uncapable of "efficient researching google", or you can simply put the name of the game followed by what you are looking for in google, and see for yourself whether or not such a program exists or is sold. The thing in question was the first result for me, ymmv. I'm fairly capable. Odds are you fell for that 'scammer' loudmouth (not sure what to call it). It's the first result I get with all viable queries. Better luck next time. Protip: Use the word trader in your query. So much for every possible one huh? Also, not talking about the fail blog you refer to. I guess your fairly capable falls far below the average fairly capable.
Wyke Mossari Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.27 22:28:00 - [42] Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 27/02/2011 22:35:42 So much fail in this thread it's hard to decide where to start. 1) Opposed. 2) The idea takes no account of how the Eve sales tax system actually works (hint tax is paid on the actual transaction), and broker fees are paid when an order is modified. Charging tax as well on each bid is absolutely asinine, it's like charging tax every time you change ammo damage type. 3) A skilled trader can make billions of ISK without resorting to the 0.01 ISK game or using a bot. Trading is Market PvP, and somebody has to lose. 4) Trade Bots do exist and if it wasn't against the rules I could link several separate trading scripts on two separate multi-platform cheating systems. 5) Market bots are actually easy to beat once you've worked out how they work, do not play their game of 0.01 changes, and when you find one raid it's wallet with targeted market manipulation. 6) The vast majority of items in Eve are price inelastic.
Shoopa Whoopa	Posted - 2011.02.27 22:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 27/02/2011 22:59:27 Originally by: Tutskii Protip: Use the word trader in your query. So much for every possible one huh? Also, not talking about the fail blog you refer to. I guess your fairly capable falls far below the average fairly capable. Are you suggesting the average person can use google? Fairly capable just means 'not utterly ******ed'. Anyways, good read. Not sure how I missed it.. pretty sure I used that search term.. I'm suspecting it was auto-corrected to 'trade'.. I spent all of 3 minutes on the search. I wouldn't consider that 'bot' to be a big problem in regards to the market, tho. It's apparently just a macro (no injection) and slower than a human (which might be allowed). There's very interesting other stuff on there, tho.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.01 02:38:00 - [44] Not supported.
Joe Bazooka	Posted - 2011.03.01 04:59:00 - [45] +1 bots must die

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