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Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:19:00 - [31] as far as torps vs AC's AC's will be better vs any ship smaller than a BS, plus they do similar amounts of dps. They will also shoo further, and hit moving targets much better. Another benefit of the minnie ships is that you can fit biggest AC's, and still have room for multiple heavy neuts/RR. Also tackle/ew, using armour pest you have 4 mids (after MWD) for tackle/EW, not to be underestimated by any means. Minmatar = variety Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:23:00 - [32] I just thought of something: is the depiction of lasers providing facemelt DPS accurate? If so, I may just go Amarr and say screw it. We just got into a skirmish tonight that taught me how important high-DPS gank fits are.
Target Painter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Rek Jaiga I just thought of something: is the depiction of lasers providing facemelt DPS accurate? If so, I may just go Amarr and say screw it. We just got into a skirmish tonight that taught me how important high-DPS gank fits are. High DPS, but **** for PvE because they are locked into EM and thermal.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Rek Jaiga I just thought of something: is the depiction of lasers providing facemelt DPS accurate? If so, I may just go Amarr and say screw it. We just got into a skirmish tonight that taught me how important high-DPS gank fits are. uhhh Well tbh you can get 1200DPS+ out of any races BS. Thing is, amarr have long optimal range, meaning you start experiencing damage loss form fighting in falloff at a later point. On the other hand, you are locked to EM/Therm damage. imo there are fr too many armour ships around to be using pure em/therm. If you want facemelting dps, then have a look at the vindicator. Blaster ship, 1600+dps Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Rek Jaiga I just thought of something: is the depiction of lasers providing facemelt DPS accurate? If so, I may just go Amarr and say screw it. We just got into a skirmish tonight that taught me how important high-DPS gank fits are. The thing about it is that its very rare to actually see the real DPS a ship is capable of putting out. You'll hear talk of 1200 DPS megas, 1500 DPS Ravens, 1100 DPS Geddons, 900 DPS Brutixes, and more. But the reality of the situation is that all of those ships have trouble putting their DPS out in their intended engagement range - or trouble getting into that range in the first place. In my experience, the Amarr battleships are second to none in laying down the actual hurt on TQ. I think its a combination of their high natural DPS, tracking, and range. Or maybe its because everyone shield tanks these days. But whatever it is... lasers are **ing epic. -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.02.16 05:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Liang Nuren The thing about it is that its very rare to actually see the real DPS a ship is capable of putting out. You'll hear talk of 1200 DPS megas, 1500 DPS Ravens, 1100 DPS Geddons, 900 DPS Brutixes, and more. But the reality of the situation is that all of those ships have trouble putting their DPS out in their intended engagement range - or trouble getting into that range in the first place. In my experience, the Amarr battleships are second to none in laying down the actual hurt on TQ. I think its a combination of their high natural DPS, tracking, and range. Or maybe its because everyone shield tanks these days. But whatever it is... lasers are ****ing epic. -Liang I was looking at the Armageddon, really. The thing is a Tier 1 battleship, making it cheap. Yet it has soo many laser turrets, and a very good drone bay. I think I'll try it out sometime and maybe even specialize in Amarr, simply because it's such a good ship ^^
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.02.16 15:23:00 - [37] I would train Caldari because mini fotm can't last foever and when the nurf bat hits its gonna be awful. And because the scorp is sexy and lots of fun. -----------
freshspree	Posted - 2011.02.16 16:00:00 - [38] Edited by: freshspree on 16/02/2011 16:01:48 IMHO, train all races and have fun. There's a reason you aren't restricted to training a particular factions line of ships. I fly all T1 subcap ships but i'm more specced in mini atm. I love lasers, The geddon is meh... made for exactly what it's said to do? deliver swift justice at a low cost. The problem with caps is that it takes time to train for them apart from the huge price you'd have to pay for skill books. The game as far as caps go is broken. The carriers and supercarriers should give damage bonuses to racial fighters while the archon and chimera get to keep their resistance bonus, galle gets a drone bay/drone hitpoints/armor repping bonus and niddy gets a drone speed/shield boosting bonus. This to me sounds right. Can't be better in anyway while also touching the few spots that makes a faction what they are. I like the chimera... though, thanny is used the most and archon/chimera have out of this world ehp. Niddy is pos repper. So much wrong in the eve that it hurts
ChromeStriker	Posted - 2011.02.16 16:08:00 - [39] ... shield.... missiles.....drones.... nano phoon!! you can do MORE with a nid than a chamira, it can go to arour or shield gangs and rep both!
Vonlin NOMAD. Warped Aggression	Posted - 2011.02.16 18:36:00 - [40] The Chimera is a beast, let all the haters hate.
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.16 18:56:00 - [41] Quote: The Maelstrom is an excellent PVE ship when done right. The Phoon and Pest make excellent PVP ships The Nag is an excellent Dread if you have the right skills for it. The Niddy has some good bonuses, but is let down by its tank and its cap. The Hel is broken. The Ragnarok is an excellent titan. All true though the Maelstrom statement comes with the cavat that went set against the gold standard in PvE, the raven everything else looks pretty ok but not excellent. Quote: This may have been true 5 yrs ago. Nowadays the maelstrom far outperforms the raven on the PvE field. It tanks harder, much easier to fit, much more damage than a cruise raven and similar damage to a torp raven but you have the option of shooting from double the range. aka you have no idea why people liked the raven in the first place. 1. Choosing damage types, yes projectiles have some flex here but it's nowhere near the 100% of my dps is now 'x' type 2. High damage at range most turrets can get the high damage but none can match the damage output at range ( short range turrets don't project enough to match torps and long range turrets don't do enough damage, except for tachs, see 1. for why they can't edge out the raven ) 3. With cruises you could also hit decently small targets, refer to liangs posts about why the CNR wins at NPCing for an idea of why this is important and such I don't like it because the satisfaction of instant damage, not to mention face melting total output with stuff like tachs makes me -want- to use turret boats but if you can't garuntee that you'll be facing 1 rat type for a significant chunk of your eve career then the Raven will serve you better. Quote: ... shield.... missiles.....drones.... nano phoon!! you can do MORE with a nid than a chamira, it can go to arour or shield gangs and rep both! Tell that to the Nid who's begging his Chimera/Archon buddies for cap :p The armor/shield focus seems win at first until you realize what a key role those cap transfers play in damn near everything and how under-trained they tend to be. Anyone getting a Chimera -must- get their capital cap transfer trained, perhaps even before their shield transporter because I can't think of one instance in the last months where a carrier fleet wouldn't appreciate extra cap. This also goes beyond the 'give me cap so I can rep' role and extends to capping the fleet up for multiple cyno jumps without dealing with docking in stations. The main advantage the Nid has is being able to rep really well and actually has the fittings for a gang it feels comfortable with ( armor ) Chimera only really feels comfortable in a shield gang, unfortunately the fittings kill this. It's more of a how well the Nid does what it does then an 'it does moar' thing.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.02.16 20:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Altaica Amur Quote: This may have been true 5 yrs ago. Nowadays the maelstrom far outperforms the raven on the PvE field. It tanks harder, much easier to fit, much more damage than a cruise raven and similar damage to a torp raven but you have the option of shooting from double the range. aka you have no idea why people liked the raven in the first place. 1. Choosing damage types, yes projectiles have some flex here but it's nowhere near the 100% of my dps is now 'x' type 2. High damage at range most turrets can get the high damage but none can match the damage output at range ( short range turrets don't project enough to match torps and long range turrets don't do enough damage, except for tachs, see 1. for why they can't edge out the raven ) 3. With cruises you could also hit decently small targets, refer to liangs posts about why the CNR wins at NPCing for an idea of why this is important and such Yeh raven does have a slight advantage on choosing damage type, I'll give you that. As for the rest, would have been argument winning points if torps still hit out to ridiculous ranges. As it is now I can use my mael to instapop frigs/2shot cruisers from 70km away. 3-4 shots on a BC depending on hit rate. Typically I can clear a mish room of everything except the battleships before the raven would even be inside it's terrible 30km (at max skills) torp range. Granted you will do better against the BS when you actually reach them, but the turrets are not far behind at all. I suppose with cruise you get the range advantage, but then the mael far outperforms you vs BS. For the record, I'm talking 800mm mael with trip gyro's, TE II's, and a couple ambit rigs. CNR is a different story, but I'd definately prefer a vargur or macharial Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.16 22:25:00 - [43] Quote: As for the rest, would have been argument winning points if torps still hit out to ridiculous ranges. As it is now I can use my mael to instapop frigs/2shot cruisers from 70km away. 3-4 shots on a BC depending on hit rate. Typically I can clear a mish room of everything except the battleships before the raven would even be inside it's terrible 30km (at max skills) torp range. Granted you will do better against the BS when you actually reach them, but the turrets are not far behind at all. I suppose with cruise you get the range advantage, but then the mael far outperforms you vs BS. For the record, I'm talking 800mm mael with trip gyro's, TE II's, and a couple ambit rigs. CNR is a different story, but I'd definately prefer a vargur or macharial As you start to push into further range you kiss your dps parity goodbye a Mael and a Raven will do similar dps with torps/ACs but torps hit ~30km with t1 ammo and without getting into falloff, ACs don't. Likewise when you move beyond these ranges Cruise will do more damage out to the lock limit then a Mael does at 35+57km, going for the Mach as a price range begs for at least the CNR as a counter. Largely we see the same situation repeat itself, a Cruise CNR is fairly close in damage to an arty Mach but can't project as much and a torp CNR beats the Mach and retains range advantages. I can understand preferring turret boats as I enjoy running around belts in a buffer shield hype because it's fun, but when I want to get serious about grinding isk I'm going to pick up a raven, for better or worse.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.02.17 00:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Altaica Amur Quote: As for the rest, would have been argument winning points if torps still hit out to ridiculous ranges. As it is now I can use my mael to instapop frigs/2shot cruisers from 70km away. 3-4 shots on a BC depending on hit rate. Typically I can clear a mish room of everything except the battleships before the raven would even be inside it's terrible 30km (at max skills) torp range. Granted you will do better against the BS when you actually reach them, but the turrets are not far behind at all. I suppose with cruise you get the range advantage, but then the mael far outperforms you vs BS. For the record, I'm talking 800mm mael with trip gyro's, TE II's, and a couple ambit rigs. CNR is a different story, but I'd definately prefer a vargur or macharial As you start to push into further range you kiss your dps parity goodbye a Mael and a Raven will do similar dps with torps/ACs but torps hit ~30km with t1 ammo and without getting into falloff, ACs don't. Likewise when you move beyond these ranges Cruise will do more damage out to the lock limit then a Mael does at 35+57km, going for the Mach as a price range begs for at least the CNR as a counter. Largely we see the same situation repeat itself, a Cruise CNR is fairly close in damage to an arty Mach but can't project as much and a torp CNR beats the Mach and retains range advantages. I can understand preferring turret boats as I enjoy running around belts in a buffer shield hype because it's fun, but when I want to get serious about grinding isk I'm going to pick up a raven, for better or worse. Yeh sounds like you run mish different from me. When I arrive on grid it's 1) Lock smallest/fastest target 2) F1 -> pop Repeat. All friggies go in one volley, so I'm not sure if dps can really apply in this situation. You are simply alphaing them out of existence, and rather than dps I'm more concerned about how fast my weps cycle so I can alpha the next little ship. AC's are great for this with ~3-3.5s cycle time. The idea being that you move towards the BS while you take out the small stuff, by the time you are ready to start shooting at the BS they should be well inside your peak damage area, now the dps numbers start to matter and on all but the longest range BS you will get v good dps. I suppose for blitz missions raven is the ship of choice, for people who kill everything in sight I'm still going with the mael, just seems to me to have the advantages of both a torp and a cruise raven rolled into one, with the drawback of falloff but the bonus of instant damage and fast RoF. Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.17 02:07:00 - [45] That's not dissimilar to how I ran sanctums down in provi, warp in at range then wtf pwn everything with tachs and sentries. The cavat to all that is that Tachs project enough damage far enough to compete with missiles, you don't have to wait to be in range for the larger targets or use lower damaging ammo as much, I really -like- this method because it's fun to volley stuff but everything I've seen suggests that once you have to move away from EM/Therm rats you're going to take a big hit to your rate of completion. I'll have fresher/more detailed experience to draw on once we get sanctums up and running in our new space but past experience and EFTness suggests that in it's price/weight class it'll be hard to beat, particularly where varying rat times come into play. Using projectiles sounds great when you're fighting angels or some such but it runs into issues when you're facing an em/therm rat where there's two decent ammos you can use none of which are in the mid-range bracket.
Izuru Hishido Amarr Lethal Dosage. Violent Society	Posted - 2011.02.17 03:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Rek Jaiga Hello everyone. I'm having trouble deciding which carrier to go for: the Nidhoggur or Chimera. I'd go for the Nidhoggur in heartbeat, but another factor I'm having trouble reconciling is the Battleship V skill. I figure if I'm going to have Battleship V it should be in a race whose ships I'm good at flying. My skillpoints are everywhere, but for the most part my strengths are shields, drones, and missiles. Due to the fact that I have virtually no SP in remote repair modules I'm heavily considering the Chimera, yet everyone seems to think it's terribad. Thoughts? Carrier without ability to RR properly = Fail. No carrier for you until you can RR with it, regardless of what race you choose. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."
Mister Normal Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.17 05:36:00 - [47] Edited by: Mister Normal on 17/02/2011 05:36:54 Originally by: Copine Callmeknau For the record, I'm talking 800mm mael with trip gyro's, TE II's, and a couple ambit rigs. CNR is a different story, but I'd definately prefer a vargur or macharial After over 12 months of flying a Mael, i have the same setup. I also add on a MWD to get in/out of prime range of enemies with me ACs. To the OP, if this is an alt you are dealing with, go for the Chimera/Caldari line. If it's your main, go with Minmatar for lots of sub cap fun when you are out of your Niddy
captain skinback	Posted - 2011.02.17 16:32:00 - [48] everyone says the amarr carrier is the best for fleet ops and there's always been moaning on the forums about balance but are the differences between the races carriers that substantial? or have people on the forums blown the issue out of proportion?
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.22 02:01:00 - [49] Quote: everyone says the amarr carrier is the best for fleet ops and there's always been moaning on the forums about balance but are the differences between the races carriers that substantial? or have people on the forums blown the issue out of proportion? Honestly the people on the forums don't make enough of a fuss about this point. The amaar carrier's the only one that can be made to tank a DD, the Aeon has more ehp then most/all titans, having the cap transfer means it can sustain itself and keep itself running in an RR fleet. The armor reps remote and otherwise fit easily, the high end resistance mods ( deadspace hardeners ) are relatively affordable compared to shields which are faced with no deadspace option for invuls. A tanking advantage may not seem like as big of a deal as you think when talking about a carrier but when you consider that a carrier's a more powerful logistics ship then it is anything else and that even supercarriers benefit from this capacity the importance of tank as something to leverage the great 'everyone can rep' advantage becomes obvious and critical, even putting the Nyx to shame in the supercarrier realm.
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.03.01 17:17:00 - [50] Sorry for the long response time >.< At any rate I can see the benefit of the Archon, as well as the benefit of the Niddie. Archon has more tank, so I'll go with it in the distant future. But as far as battleships go, I do like the more active turret-based style of PvE. Sounds like Amarr for me.

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