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Arzad falls to TLF forces.

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Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.22 16:36:00 - [121] Originally by: Rodj Blake And if the Federation had that technology when they were bombarding Caldari Prime... Firstly you're wrong. Secondly, and more importantly, you're attempting a falacious diversion of the subject. The Amarr did invade a world that did not belong to them, the Amarr did enslave its people, the Amarr did force them to abide by their culture against their will, the Amarr did commit genocide, the Amarr did destroy a planet's biosphere (and it wasn't the only time they did it). Any crimes the Federation did or might have done or tried to do don't have any relevence to the atrocities the Amarrians successfully perpetrated. Besides, when I am in a good, clear-headed mood, I can look back on some of the things that the Federation has done and feel regret and remorse for them. The Amarrians quite literally revel in the slaughter of millions of innocents. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.22 16:39:00 - [122] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2011 16:44:32 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2011 16:44:15 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2011 16:43:32 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Rodj Blake And if the Federation had that technology when they were bombarding Caldari Prime... Firstly you're wrong. Secondly, and more importantly, you're attempting a falacious diversion of the subject. The Amarr did invade a world that did not belong to them, the Amarr did enslave its people, the Amarr did force them to abide by their culture against their will, the Amarr did commit genocide, the Amarr did destroy a planet's biosphere (and it wasn't the only time they did it). Any crimes the Federation did or might have done or tried to do don't have any relevence to the atrocities the Amarrians successfully perpetrated. Besides, when I am in a good, clear-headed mood, I can look back on some of the things that the Federation has done and feel regret and remorse for them. The Amarrians quite literally revel in the slaughter of millions of innocents. The Empire didn't commit genocide any more than the Federation did, and you know it. After all, some of the Starkmanir did survive. Also, only a fool would revel in the slaughter of millions of valuable adopted workers. The destruction of an entire workforce is not a task to the undertaken without a degree of neccessity. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Millie Clode Amarr Insert Cool Name Here	Posted - 2011.02.22 17:05:00 - [123] Originally by: Rodj Blake The Empire didn't commit genocide any more than the Federation did, and you know it. After all, some of the Starkmanir did survive. Quote: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. The existence of a small group of survivors doesn't miraculously make it not genocide. ---------- Who, me?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.22 17:06:00 - [124] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2011 16:44:15 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2011 16:43:32 You had to revise this statement twice? Really, Rodj? Originally by: Rodj Blake The Empire didn't commit genocide any more than the Federation did, and you know it. After all, some of the Starkmanir did survive. Are you really going to try and use this as an excuse? Remember, the Amarr Empire - and more importantly, the Minmatar Republic, who would have surely done many searches (and all of them many times more thorough than the Amarr) for their lost tribe - were patently flaberghasted to discover that any tangible remnant of the Starkmanir tribe existed. That there were any Starkmanir left alive after the massacare at Starkman Prime was clearly an accident - by sheer chance, or lack of research, an incomprehensibly fortunate few were spared bloody massacre at the hands of a brutal occupying military force. The Amarr fully intended to end the Starkmanir bloodline, utterly and permanently. And in a sense, the genocide was not so unsuccessful. The Starkmanir who remain alive possess almost no knowledge of their ancestral culture, because all of their history post-Pator burned with Starkman Prime. Their culture, their history, their tribal traditions - they were all destroyed by the Amarrians. In a sense, the Starkmanir as a tribal nation are still truly dead - while their blood still flows on in the veins of those fortunate survivors rescued by the Elder Fleet, the Amarr have robbed them of their heritage. Originally by: Rodj Blake Also, only a fool would revel in the slaughter of millions of valuable adopted workers. And only a monster would look at those victims of your barbaric savagery as "valuable adopted workers" instead of "people". They were never your property, to be owned and destroyed at your whim. They were a proud people who desired to live free on their world, which you took from them. When they made it clear this was what they wanted, you murdered them, failing only - and not through want of trying - to do it to the very last man. Originally by: Rodj Blake The destruction of an entire workforce is not a task to the undertaken without a degree of neccessity. The destruction of an entire planetary population is not a task to be undertaken without a total loss of humanity. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.22 18:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Millie Clode Originally by: Rodj Blake The Empire didn't commit genocide any more than the Federation did, and you know it. After all, some of the Starkmanir did survive. Quote: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. The existence of a small group of survivors doesn't miraculously make it not genocide. In which case the point that the Federation is at least as guilty of genocide remains. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Vikarion Caldari Blackened Steel	Posted - 2011.02.22 18:16:00 - [126] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Millie Clode The existence of a small group of survivors doesn't miraculously make it not genocide. In which case the point that the Federation is at least as guilty of genocide remains. Quite....still, forgive me for asking, but how does the attempted genocide of the Deteis and Civire by the Federation make the attempted genocide of the Starkmanir acceptable? A plague on both your houses. - - - Warning: Having fun, often at your expense!
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.22 18:23:00 - [127] States and state actors often kill large numbers of people with little or no justification for such acts. I find the suggestion that it is quite fine for one state to do it because one or other states have indulged in similar atrocities quite perverse. Still, it's an observable fact that the state leads to manifold perversities and hypocrisies of a similar kind so I can't really say that the above discussion surprises me overmuch. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.22 18:44:00 - [128] Originally by: Rodj Blake In which case the point that the Federation is at least as guilty of genocide remains. The Federation isn't the subject of the discussion here. If the Federation never existed, the Amarr would still have rained death on a planet they occupied and subjugated against the will of its inhabitants, simply for having the temerity to resist that occupation. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:04:00 - [129] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Rodj Blake In which case the point that the Federation is at least as guilty of genocide remains. The Federation isn't the subject of the discussion here. If the Federation never existed, the Amarr would still have rained death on a planet they occupied and subjugated against the will of its inhabitants, simply for having the temerity to resist that occupation. They were rebelling. They knew the penalty. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Anabella Rella Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:08:00 - [130] Thanks to both Captains Ixiris and The Cosmopolite for spreading the light of truth and wisdom, although I fear your attempt will be in vain. The Amarr are too blinded by religious zealotry to be reasoned with and the Caldari too blinded by hatred. There are none so blind as those who would not see.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:20:00 - [131] Originally by: Anabella Rella There are none so blind as those who would not see. Those Minmatar who have their eyes gouged out by their own kind because they received the wrong tattoo in a lottery are pretty blind too. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:39:00 - [132] Originally by: Rodj Blake They were rebelling. They knew the penalty. They were rebelling against an occupation you had no right to oppose, and were punished with a penalty you had no right to hand out. Originally by: Rodj Blake Those Minmatar who etc. etc. Again you attempt to deflect the guilt of the Empire's crimes by naming those of others. The Empire's guilt is not dependent on other empires' lack of innocence - it is still just as responsible for its atrocities as it would be if every other civilization in this cluster were the paragon of virtue the Empire falsely claims to be. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:53:00 - [133] There is something about the image of Ixiris and Blake grapling through eternity in an endless nationalist struggle for cultural domination that strikes an almost bathetically poignant poetic chord in this discourse. I'm almost moved. Join the Revolution!
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.22 20:13:00 - [134] Don't you have a pleasant and successful pirate corporation to fantasize about fighting? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Ava Starfire Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.02.22 22:22:00 - [135] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Anabella Rella There are none so blind as those who would not see. Those Minmatar who have their eyes gouged out by their own kind because they received the wrong tattoo in a lottery are pretty blind too. I love how you will set up flimsy diversions like "Where is there proof of our well documented genocide?" or "They were rebelling, they knew the penalty!" then attack the Voluval, like you actually know anything at all about it. That would involve doing actual reliable research, and its pretty clear that you have an inability to do that.
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.02.22 23:04:00 - [136] Originally by: Ava Starfire That would involve doing actual reliable research, and its pretty clear that you have an inability to do that. Actually brother Blake has quite a reputation for being able to pull obscure but accurate facts seemingly from thin air. While I admit this can be a bit annoying at times having been on the receiving end, no one should doubt his exceedingly high skill at finding obscure information from the distant past and using it to bolster his arguments. Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 05:35:00 - [137] Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq on 23/02/2011 05:39:58 Oh, for the love of... Is everyone done bickering yet? History, political science, theology, semantics - honestly, these are all lovely subjects but must you all leave a mine riddled war-zone in place of an intellectual discussion? Firstly to my fellow Amarr, get to work liberating and protecting our systems. That is what the Knighthood is occupied with and so should the rest of us. Deeds above words, please. Also, if you have a problem with my pilot or my corporation bring it up with me or our diplomats, instead of yapping out here so the gawkers can watch. At least Admiral Blake had the good sense to send a formal complaint which I am working through now. To everyone else, shut up already. We know, Amarr is evil, blah blah, whine whine. We've only heard it about a few billion times. It's almost like you all are trying to break our record for stupid justifications for violence. You don't like it, either help us change or come kill us; we'll be waiting. It is your choice if it will be with open arms or the business-end of lasers.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.02.23 07:57:00 - [138] Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq It is your choice if it will be with open arms or the business-end of lasers. See, this is the damn problem! Even with the so-called "reasonable" loyalists, it's exactly the same story, just in a prettier dressing. The fact is that yes, you are right - this is always the way it is with the Amarrians. Accept them with open arms as they enslave your people and force religious change upon you, or face the lasers. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 08:29:00 - [139] Uhg... Just keep your systems tidy and you won't have anything to worry about from the Crusade. Stop cowering in fear like we're going to eat your children in the night, we neither have the capability nor the desire anymore. All I ask is that while you are at it just leave our people alone. That's it.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.23 14:52:00 - [140] The point Aldrith, is that some of your members have exhibited views that are simply not becoming of a loyalist. While your most liberal attitude is well known. I sometimes have a difficult time telling the difference between what you profess and what, say, a Gallente liberal profess'. I think even you would agree that Lyn's theological comments on the non existance of God is heresy, and having members of your corp. take part in the Blood Raider beauty contest hosted by a infamous Revan brings up a lot of questions as to how your organization is a loyalist one at all.
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:10:00 - [141] Edited by: Lyn Farel on 23/02/2011 18:12:16 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit The point Aldrith, is that some of your members have exhibited views that are simply not becoming of a loyalist. While your most liberal attitude is well known. I sometimes have a difficult time telling the difference between what you profess and what, say, a Gallente liberal profess'. I think even you would agree that Lyn's theological comments on the non existance of God is heresy, and having members of your corp. take part in the Blood Raider beauty contest hosted by a infamous Revan brings up a lot of questions as to how your organization is a loyalist one at all. So it still looks like you are deliberatly trying to see only what pleases you and points me out as the political scapegoat you have been looking for for ages concerning the case of the Knighthood. I do not preach any kind of heretical thought : the only heretical things are in your own minds. I have never stated the things you are accusing me right now. I expected surprised answers and questions from other loyalists as I perfectly knew my words were unorthodox (but still they fit perfectly well in the frame of the Scriptures), yet all I got was threats and calls to heresy. I do not understand your determination to slander me and my corporation at the same time. I have been accused to not take these matter privately instead of publicly (and have been trying to do so since then), but actually, it clearly seems to me that PIE Inc is guilty of such a thing, and not me. After Mr Blake stating he had to discuss this privately with Mr Shutaq, he was still slandering me in public on the IGS. Now, you too are doing the same here. I am in the obligation to answer and defend myself of your accusations full of nonsense. What are you looking for exactly ? Aren't you able to postpone all this to private discussions ? Or do you intend to continue the public slander and autodafT as it seems to suit you so well ?
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:43:00 - [142] Hey look, Oyeman just fell while you were jabbering on. Paladin Farel, Admirals, I have a question: Why aren't you plexing?
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:37:00 - [143] I just closed 3 minor complexes in Ezzara at the time we speak, grandmaster.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:46:00 - [144] Excellent work Paladin, I see that I need not have doubted the value of your deeds on the front. Leave this trifle to the Admirals and I, it is not worth distracting you from the important work to be done.
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:31:00 - [145] But of course, as long as the Knigthood and I do not get insulted anymore for imaginary deeds. I hold no grudge against anyone here.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:08:00 - [146] Insults are but words; turn the other cheek with humility rather than lash back with indignation and no one can fault you. Our worth is found in our actions, not our arguments. Now on to the eternal war.
Kahar Dex Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.25 19:10:00 - [147] Originally by: Lyn Farel So it still looks like you are deliberatly trying to see only what pleases you and points me out as the political scapegoat you have been looking for for ages concerning the case of the Knighthood. I do not preach any kind of heretical thought : the only heretical things are in your own minds. I have never stated the things you are accusing me right now. I expected surprised answers and questions from other loyalists as I perfectly knew my words were unorthodox (but still they fit perfectly well in the frame of the Scriptures), yet all I got was threats and calls to heresy. I do not understand your determination to slander me and my corporation at the same time. I have been accused to not take these matter privately instead of publicly (and have been trying to do so since then), but actually, it clearly seems to me that PIE Inc is guilty of such a thing, and not me. After Mr Blake stating he had to discuss this privately with Mr Shutaq, he was still slandering me in public on the IGS. Now, you too are doing the same here. I am in the obligation to answer and defend myself of your accusations full of nonsense. What are you looking for exactly ? Aren't you able to postpone all this to private discussions ? Or do you intend to continue the public slander and autodafT as it seems to suit you so well ? Unfortunately Ms. Farel, I must stand with Admiral Blake and Admirl Piskonit on this matter. The Admirals in this matter have acted with respect, and what you may consider slander, I see as being assertive. Your statements go beyond theological liberalism, and to be considered a "loyalist" one must be orthodox. There is a sore lack of regard for semantics amongst the capsuleer community, so before anyone challenges my meaning, I should clarify that by "orthodox" I mean the standard definition of the word "that which is commonly accepted, established and approved". Stating that you do not believe in a "higher being" is neither heresy or blasphemy. *It is out right denial of faith in the One True God. Unfortunately we can not even call you an apostate. Perhaps of course because the universal "tongue" is not your native language you perhaps miss communicated what you intended to actually say. But as it stands, the offending remarks are very clear: Originally by:* Lyn Farel Ah, something more suitable for discussion. I "don't give a damn" to the Scriptures, as you say. I consider them as pure spiritual texts, and that is what they basically are. And, thank you, I actually read them and get a lot of meaning in them. I do not believe either in any sort of higher being. I think you are trying to have a debate on that with the wrong person.
Rytha Main Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.25 19:17:00 - [148] Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq Insults are but words; turn the other cheek with humility rather than lash back with indignation and no one can fault you. Our worth is found in our actions, not our arguments. Now on to the eternal war. While noble in speech, I humbly disagree Lord Shutaq. Our words are justified by our actions, but they are no less important. A gallentean might toil in charitable work on behalf of the impoverished, but that does not make him one of the Faithful. If our arguments are not sound, then we disgrace God who has entrusted us with His message of faith. Our faith is not blind, nor should our reasoning. Amarr shall triumph for God is her Hero, and we are His champions.
Neu Bastian Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2011.02.25 19:21:00 - [149] Originally by: Silas Vitalia Originally by: Ava Starfire That would involve doing actual reliable research, and its pretty clear that you have an inability to do that. Actually brother Blake has quite a reputation for being able to pull obscure but accurate facts seemingly from thin air. That's because he does pull "obscure but accurate" facts out of thin air. That's all he has to back it up, air. Quote: Neu Bastian Murientor Tribe
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.02.25 20:54:00 - [150] Originally by: Kahar Dex Selective drivel If you want a clarification, a discussion or even a debate on this matter, please do not hesitate to open a conversation with me at your convenance. I think the real essence and meanings of what I exposed here is too complex and subtle to be correctly explained, as it is spreaded on several messages.

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