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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.16 22:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Block Ukx
If you want to make it attractive, then list it in the BSAC Exchange. Bonds will be tradable, and you can buyout bonds of the Exchange at some specified rate. In addition, the number of outstanding bonds will be known by the public. The Exchange offers many tools for fund managers to administer their bond.
Block: "Let me steal your isk! Send it into my opaque, EBank-like system!"
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
If you want to make it attractive, then list it in the BSAC Exchange. Bonds will be tradable, and you can buyout bonds of the Exchange at some specified rate. In addition, the number of outstanding bonds will be known by the public. The Exchange offers many tools for fund managers to administer their bond.
Block: "Let me steal your isk! Send it into my opaque, EBank-like system!"
If he lists the Bond, I would not be holding the ISK, all the ISK will be in the hands of the fund manager; outside the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
If you want to make it attractive, then list it in the BSAC Exchange. Bonds will be tradable, and you can buyout bonds of the Exchange at some specified rate. In addition, the number of outstanding bonds will be known by the public. The Exchange offers many tools for fund managers to administer their bond.
Block: "Let me steal your isk! Send it into my opaque, EBank-like system!"
If he lists the Bond, I would not be holding the ISK, all the ISK will be in the hands of the fund manager; outside the Exchange.
Fund Manager? You mean Poison?
And lets say someone wants to buy his bond? Where would they send their money to?
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Block Ukx If you want to make it attractive, then list it in the BSAC Exchange.
Listing on BSAC may make this offering unattractive to some investors given recent discussions. You need to review this policy of self promotion and address the concerns that have been addressed to you regarding your own offerings; you are inviting criticism.
Dethmourne if you are planning on trading and agree to ongoing performance checks, this may generate some interest. 3% seems too low though, and you need to clarify your existing obligations. Might be better to start with a conservative amount and build up.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:19:00 -
[35]
Were I going to use this solely for trading, I would be more than happy to go back to 4% (the price point of some of my more recent bonds). However, this is -primarily- going to be used for collateralized loans, which requires my "borrow" percentage be lower than my "loan" percentage, and there are a lot more offers out there at 4% than at 5% for this market.
I suppose I could leave the loan business on hiatus and simply focus on trading; for that I'd only want approx a 2-3b loan (as there's more risk in the trading market, I want to keep my liability lower in case the unlikely happens and i downswing).
I've already noted that not only would i agree to regular performance audits, but that i would prefer to have them, assuming they can be made cost-effective.
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Misty McGinnity
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal My impression of your recent investment decisions is that you expose yourself to excess risk in a manner that is a little too impulsive.
Recent examples include the Lethal Entrepreuner IPO and potentially just as seriously, the decision to underwrite Kalrand's bond for just 1% of the overall value.
I don't want to sound unduly harsh, but you need to demonstrate a real improvement in your investment methodology and particularly in your ability to conduct a risk assessment.
This was exactly what i was saying in the other thread.
Originally by: Block Ukx
Too late to öfixö your underwriter decision. People will always question the wisdom of your investment decision; see Lib.Et.
Very true, ill be ensuring that the public knows this in every one of his new offerings etc. Cept if he makes it obvious & calls his Bond, 'Kneejerk investments' or similar.
Originally by: Block Ukx
If you want to make it attractive, then list it in the BSAC Exchange. Bonds will be tradable, and you can buyout bonds of the Exchange at some specified rate. In addition, the number of outstanding bonds will be known by the public. The Exchange offers many tools for fund managers to administer their bond.
This cross posting non-sense tho is getting old, no matter how many times you polish a terd its still stinks.
Trolling aside:
@OP 3% is too low, & your highly likely to make bad investments, your already in debt, clear that debt then come back with a better offering. with any luck the dust will settle from this mess & ppl will invest in you, but right now, you are a red flag.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:37:00 -
[37]
No, the fund manager in this case will be Dethmourne Silvermane.
To purchase a bond you will need to use your Exchange account. If you need to deposit ISK, you will send it to BSAC MMM. Then use the Bond Exchange to buy any listed bonds.
And you too are welcome to list in the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Misty McGinnity This cross posting non-sense tho is getting old, no matter how many times you polish a terd its still stinks.
You are welcome to open an account in the Exchange and test it yourself. I think once you try it, you will be pleased. There are about 500 users, so listing in the Exchange exposes the bond to a larger number of investors.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Would it make my offering more or less attractive if I were to remove my 'underwriting' from kalrand's bond offer?
You don't need to fully remove it, but you should limit the amount you underwrite and perhaps charge a more substantial fee.
Also, you would need terms and conditions so that you don't get caught out by something silly - for example, if Kalrand was a day late making payments, or if an investor pretended not to be paid and you became liable. That sort of thing can become complicated.
@Block - how's that audit of BSAC that you promised several weeks ago?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.16 23:55:00 -
[40]
Audit plans are coming along. We are almost done shifting assets of CSF into the new account. We are still looking for an auditor.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:01:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 17/02/2011 00:02:32
Originally by: Block Ukx
Audit plans are coming along. We are almost done shifting assets of CSF into the new account. We are still looking for an auditor.
Is it going to show your full public liability, which would dispel the ponzi claims, or is it a partial showing? Simple answer would be nice, I'm not going to go on about BSAC any more people can see the thread and make their own minds up with their isk now and if they get scammed it's their own problem now, I am just mostly curious now what's going to happen ;)
Personally, I think it'd be a damn shame if what you have built turns out to be a scam, it looks real nice and effort has gone into it, I always wish this game had more building than destroying in it. So here's hoping.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Would it make my offering more or less attractive if I were to remove my 'underwriting' from kalrand's bond offer?
You don't need to fully remove it, but you should limit the amount you underwrite and perhaps charge a more substantial fee.
Also, you would need terms and conditions so that you don't get caught out by something silly - for example, if Kalrand was a day late making payments, or if an investor pretended not to be paid and you became liable. That sort of thing can become complicated.
@Block - how's that audit of BSAC that you promised several weeks ago?
I think you're misreading what I offered in his bond.
I effectively offered to run a 3% bond of up to 10b that would solely invest in his bond of 4%.
This excludes me from "oh he's a day late where's my isk" and "I didn't get paid". Basically I'd middleman up to 10b of it.
But this does bring up a valid note, that people are confused as to what i actually offered there.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Audit plans are coming along. We are almost done shifting assets of CSF into the new account. We are still looking for an auditor.
You're sending over enough assets to the new corporation to show that that little piece of your ball of yarn actually has substance.
This would be like me claiming to control 400b in assets, and shuffling over 10b (my approximate net worth) into a new corp, and then letting someone see that the "10B Isk Wing Corp" actually is fully funded with the 10b isk. It says nothing about the other 390B I'd have claimed to have had.
You run a ponzi scheme, and you are only solvent because stupid & lazy people leave isk in their various BSAC accounts. If you ever get hit with a large enough wave of withdrawals, you're toast.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:16:00 -
[44]
Posting to confirm I have been contacted about ongoing performance audits for this offering.
Also posting to confirm this has turned into another bash Block/Ebank thread
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Would it make my offering more or less attractive if I were to remove my 'underwriting' from kalrand's bond offer?
You don't need to fully remove it, but you should limit the amount you underwrite and perhaps charge a more substantial fee.
Also, you would need terms and conditions so that you don't get caught out by something silly - for example, if Kalrand was a day late making payments, or if an investor pretended not to be paid and you became liable. That sort of thing can become complicated.
1) Underwriting is something entirely different than what everyone is prattling on about here. Underwriting would be me selling a large block of bonds to Deth, at say 96 million isk per 100m isk bond, and him selling them to "the public" at (hopefully) face price. Or failing that, at whatever price he could get. What he's doing is much akin to a credit default swap or insurance.
2) I think Deth's plan of insuring any offering of mine has fallen pretty flat on its face.
3) I would assume if there was a dispute about if an investor was paid or not, then that investor would likely have to provide a full api key to prove their claim.
4) If I was a day late in interest, and someone pressed the issue, I would assume that Deth would likely have to front the isk for that payment, and get repaid when I would actually pay the coupon.
The only way I could ever picture his proposed arrangement working was if I considered him to be the investor in my bond, and then let him and whoever he was paying 3% to sort this whole mess out between each other.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.17 00:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane I think you're misreading what I offered in his bond.
I effectively offered to run a 3% bond of up to 10b that would solely invest in his bond of 4%.
This excludes me from "oh he's a day late where's my isk" and "I didn't get paid". Basically I'd middleman up to 10b of it.
But this does bring up a valid note, that people are confused as to what i actually offered there.
I see. That wouldn't be a bad idea in principle, provided you spread your bets and did good research [and pursued a better interest rate].
Originally by: Block Ukx Audit plans are coming along. We are almost done shifting assets of CSF into the new account. We are still looking for an auditor.
Now the dummy has a dummy corporation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_corporation
Originally by: wikipedia A dummy corporation is one way to cook the books in a dishonest attempt to hide the true financial status of a company.
My emphasis added.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 01:16:00 -
[47]
BSAC is the leader in transparency and no other investment in EVE is more transparent than us. As explained previously, the CSF is moving into a new account to facilitate ongoing audits. That way the auditor will only have one account to check. And we are not just going to follow the crowd; we are going to take it many steps further. The plan calls to make the account journals, wallets, and assets viewable to the public. Yes, thatÆs right, public to the entire EVE population. This bold plan requires a bit of coding on my part and testing before it goes public. It also requires a contract API, which is not existent at the moment.
After fully automating the CSF public records, we will move to the Mineral Reserve.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 02:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Block Ukx
BSAC is the leader in transparency and no other investment in EVE is more transparent than us.
A month old newbie who tosses out a limited API key has more transparency than you & Poison.
Originally by: Block Ukx
As explained previously, the CSF is moving into a new account to facilitate ongoing audits. That way the auditor will only have one account to check. And we are not just going to follow the crowd; we are going to take it many steps further. The plan calls to make the account journals, wallets, and assets viewable to the public. Yes, thatÆs right, public to the entire EVE population. This bold plan requires a bit of coding on my part and testing before it goes public. It also requires a contract API, which is not existent at the moment.
After fully automating the CSF public records, we will move to the Mineral Reserve.
All I read there was that after you shuffle assets into one wing for an audit, you'll shuffle assets into another for the next.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 02:05:00 -
[49]
Obviously you have nothing constructive to post. CSF and the Mineral Reserve are independent business. They will both have ongoing publically available wallets, and journals. This will be a standard too high for many to match.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 03:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Block Ukx Obviously you have nothing constructive to post. CSF and the Mineral Reserve are independent business. They will both have ongoing publically available wallets, and journals. This will be a standard too high for many to match.
And everything you've scooped up with your exchange?
How about BSAC proper?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 03:35:00 -
[51]
The Exchange is allready audited by the BOD. Long term plan is to also move the Exchange into its own account; get every indpendent business separeted into its own account.
Like I said before, we are raising the bar higher than anyone.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Exchange is allready audited by the BOD.
Yes, they spoke about that in this post here and a followup by another BOD member here.
Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Originally by: SencneS With no alt in any BSAC in-game corporation, I can't unequivocally confirm BSAC has any ISK or assets. So I can only go with the data available to me which is database provided by Block's self audits and accounting sheets.
Which oddly enough is available to any investor with one share of any BSAC Stock.
This is also my level of access to, and visibility of, actual assets in BSAC.
As a member of the Board I have access to some tools to check the operation of the Exchange, but again, no access to or ability to verify physical assets. In fact, I believe that my only duty is to overwatch the Exchange operation, and I admit that the one or two hiccups when it started were due to my response (evemails and conversations - no access, remember?) to various problems that were happening/I believed were happening.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:08:00 -
[53]
You'll notice the conversation has gone from concerns about my upcoming bond and how best to structure it to a discussion about whether or not BSAC is a scam.
Do we need to get you two lovebirds a room?
(/shamelessripoffofkalrandspostinotherthread)
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:09:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 17/02/2011 04:11:21
Yes, and we took action and are changing things. The BOD had many discussions to adress many of the issues and we came with a plan. We are moving CSF to a new account, where the BOD has the API key to the new CSF corporation. We are the leaders in transparency and are taking it to a new level of full transparency. No other investment comes even close.
PS Edit. IÆm sorry for derailing your thread. I strongly believe the Exchange can offer excellent tools for you to manage your own bond. Don't hesitate to contact BSAC MMM if you are interested.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Block Ukx We are the leaders in transparency and are taking it to a new level of full transparency. No other investment comes even close.
If you keep saying this, perhaps some day it may be true. But it is not now.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx We are the leaders in transparency and are taking it to a new level of full transparency. No other investment comes even close.
If you keep saying this, perhaps some day it may be true. But it is not now.
Well, then point me to an IPO that is more transparent. Show me one that will make their records public knowledge.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Well, then point me to an IPO that is more transparent. Show me one that will make their records public knowledge.
You can publish all the records you want publicly, but if no one is able to confirm a darn thing you say, then they are absolutely worthless.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
Well, then point me to an IPO that is more transparent. Show me one that will make their records public knowledge.
You can publish all the records you want publicly, but if no one is able to confirm a darn thing you say, then they are absolutely worthless.
So you can't find any corporation more transparent than BSAC.
The new record system will be verified via API by various Trustees, which include the BOD, and several trusted individuals.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
Well, then point me to an IPO that is more transparent. Show me one that will make their records public knowledge.
You can publish all the records you want publicly, but if no one is able to confirm a darn thing you say, then they are absolutely worthless.
So you can't find any corporation more transparent than BSAC.
The new record system will be verified via API by various Trustees, which include the BOD, and several trusted individuals.
Look, I just need to toss a stick into the air and find someone that's had an audit recently, and they're more transparent than you.
You have great big plans for the future, but until do actually account for your assets to someone, you can't claim any kind of transparency whatsoever.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 04:29:00 -
[60]
Show me one that has more transparency. A one time audit is NOT transparency. Show me one that has records going back several years.
Your Bond does not even come close to our corporation.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
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