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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.18 17:40:00 -
[1]
Hi, i've recently come across an interesting ethical issue that i'm unsure what to do about or where to place in the general. it's regarding what constitutes a "scam courier contract" and what constitute a Legit failed courier contract.
the issue particularly is involved with usages of valued goods at a over valued courier contracts. The good being in question is T2 BPCs. now i'm fairly certain under normal circumstances, once you ship scan someone you most often wouldn't be able to tell a BPO with a BPC, now the ethical question is whether one is a "scammer" because they take advantage of that fact.
Now i'm not saying that the person who issued the courier is actually using an alt, or hired people to gate camp. what i'm saying is hes a completely uninvolved third party that wants to move BPCS from A to B through high traffic areas. However, knowing how people often view things have a vested interest in seeing the courier blown up and claiming collateral.
of course, all of this still remains completely obscure as how can you tell if someone's alt or friends are the ones blowing up the courier? and also another point in particular is whether or not one should return collaterals that the courier failed to deliver if he asks to compensate the contractor
i'm not one to care about a reputation of any sort but this sort of gray area question in and of itself is just so fascinating to explore. Any thoughts?
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.02.18 17:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 18/02/2011 17:56:47
As a known scammer it's funny you would talk about ethics. Heheheh :P
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.18 18:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: egola on 18/02/2011 18:08:30
 Originally by: Caldariftw123
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 18/02/2011 17:56:47
As a known scammer it's funny you would talk about ethics. Heheheh :P
you sir might've started a new MEME for me
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2011.02.18 18:37:00 -
[4]
Don't some people already do this? They setup contracts, plan an ambush, kill the hauler, collect the collateral. What is the ethical dilemma? It beats the hundreds of bogus contracts to un-enterable stations in 0.0 space, IMO.
I guess it's clever to use BPC's that may look like they're worth far more, but if you're not planning an ambush, then you're just counting on random gate-campers to suicide gank the hauler. Anytime this doesn't happen, you lose isk.
---
RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.18 19:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cheque Please
Don't some people already do this? They setup contracts, plan an ambush, kill the hauler, collect the collateral. What is the ethical dilemma? It beats the hundreds of bogus contracts to un-enterable stations in 0.0 space, IMO.
I guess it's clever to use BPC's that may look like they're worth far more, but if you're not planning an ambush, then you're just counting on random gate-campers to suicide gank the hauler. Anytime this doesn't happen, you lose isk.
well it's not as blatant an attempt to scam as the others you've mentioned i'm just wondering is there truly a line you can draw when one thing constitute an attempt to scam or not. You are correct in that if there is no actual planned ambush one would lose isk if the courier doesn't lose the collateral.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.02.18 19:22:00 -
[6]
What makes it "ethical"? There's no expectation of right or wrong.
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.18 20:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
What makes it "ethical"? There's no expectation of right or wrong.
thats exactly what i'm trying to ask, i'm using the term and usage of scammer as an indicator
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Companion Qube
Minmatar
Electron Conservation Inc
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Posted - 2011.02.18 20:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: egola
Hi, i've recently come across an interesting ethical issue that i'm unsure what to do about or where to place in the general.
Paging Liberty Eternal to this thread.
drunkpoasting best poasting |
Abdullah al Wahhab
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Posted - 2011.02.18 20:55:00 -
[9]
Always stay honest people, Allah is watching you.
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Neolithic Man
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Posted - 2011.02.18 21:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Abdullah al Wahhab
Always stay honest people, Allah is watching you.
I lolled 
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.02.18 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
What makes it "ethical"? There's no expectation of right or wrong.
Whatever,
I agree, given that its a dog vs dog game, I wouldn't hold it against you as a rl person for scamming unless we were on friendly terms on vent and my trust in you in game were based on a OOC sort of promise. (and even then people might see it differently)
But, common, in any RP sense, accepting a job to deliver something and taking the stuff for yourself instead is just as unethical in a RP sense as doing the same in real life.
But, its sort of silly to argue about it I guess.... if you've got that warped idea about words you aren't going to change your mind.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.02.19 00:17:00 -
[12]
OP, you forgot the fact that you can deliver the contract with your alt that's unknown to the guy who set up a contract (or accept it with an alt and deliver with main, if you don't have a real alt), thus there is no way for him to know who exactly will haul the stuff.
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.19 00:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
OP, you forgot the fact that you can deliver the contract with your alt that's unknown to the guy who set up a contract (or accept it with an alt and deliver with main, if you don't have a real alt), thus there is no way for him to know who exactly will haul the stuff.
it doesn't honestly matter who exactly hauls the stuff because ultimately its whoever has said items in their cargo as they deliver it. i'm not just cargoing some random XYZ product, i'm moving specific valued goods only i'm overpricing them quite a bit in collateral.
i'm not operating under the assumption that i'll target the courier but rather someones being targetted out of random because the goods hes ferrying seems valuable.
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Bulldug
Starlight Enterprise
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.19 15:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
What makes it "ethical"? There's no expectation of right or wrong.
First, why care what others people think? dream on...
The whole idea that you need 'big brother' to tell what is right or wrong is based on sheep mentality. I despite that mentality because it does not foster personal responsibility and critical thinking..Thats why the real life world is so messed up with reckless greed, competition and corruption. Its always easier for the sheeple to just deflect blame rather than looking in your own mirror.
The golden rule in ethics has always been; "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". So you like to get scammed? If you cant answer yes to that, then your a hypocryte.
Secondly, trust is earned by beeing honest. No honestly, no trust. Personal, I have made over 1 trillion isk without any need to scam, lie or steal. I have also given alot isk away to charity. So, I feel pretty good about that, I doubt a scammer will feel the same.
Third, EvE is a sandbox game. If you dont like the dog vs dog world, then LEAD by example. Now healthy competition in EVE are not bad but reckless greed and competition with 'win at all cost' attitude are definately not sustainable in the long run. Not to mention EVE's longevity are preserved by good corps which focus on co-operation and working as a team.
"Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens"
Carl Gustav Jung |
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