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Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.21 15:54:00 - [1] I was just perusing Manalapan's "Vote for Manalapan" CSM thread, and it hit me that we really have never had anyone on the CSM. Perhaps it's time for some of the regulars on this forum to work on a consensus candidate and a economic-related platform. I mean, it's not like we don't have a ton of issues that we all complain about.
corestwo Goonfleet Investment Banking	Posted - 2011.02.21 15:56:00 - [2] Only if "the MD delegate" is also an inhabitant of 0.0, so they're not simultaneously pushing the "**** 0.0" plan several morons currently are.
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.21 15:58:00 - [3] Originally by: corestwo Only if "the MD delegate" is also an inhabitant of 0.0, so they're not simultaneously pushing the "**** 0.0" plan several morons currently are. I'm quite OK with plans to make 0.0 "better" for industrialists. I don't think this is a group of folks that would have a consensus strong view on any of the 0.0 pvp or logistics issues.
Florestan Bronstein	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:06:00 - [4] Quote: that we really have never had anyone on the CSM. Omber Zombie and LaVista Vista were past CSM members/candidates with some MD backing.
corestwo Goonfleet Investment Banking	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: corestwo Only if "the MD delegate" is also an inhabitant of 0.0, so they're not simultaneously pushing the "**** 0.0" plan several morons currently are. I'm quite OK with plans to make 0.0 "better" for industrialists. I don't think this is a group of folks that would have a consensus strong view on any of the 0.0 pvp or logistics issues. "0.0 better for industrialists" is one thing. "0.0 logistics are too easy" and things of that nature are quite another.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:19:00 - [6] It's about time we got our man in the White House. We need a business-friendly candidate to represent our interests in Washington.
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Liberty Eternal It's about time we got our man in the White House. We need a business-friendly candidate to represent our interests in Washington. If I knew someone was running, I would go and vote, but noone from MD seems to have the urge. Problem with most MDers is they don't know the "endgame" and are thus disqualified as serious candidates. ----------------------- "Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Cista2 Originally by: Liberty Eternal It's about time we got our man in the White House. We need a business-friendly candidate to represent our interests in Washington. If I knew someone was running, I would go and vote, but noone from MD seems to have the urge. Problem with most MDers is they don't know the "endgame" and are thus disqualified as serious candidates. Define "endgame"
Lando Antilles	Posted - 2011.02.21 16:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Kalrand Define "endgame" Sandbox != endgame I'd imagine that practically speaking EVE endgame is whatever piece of New Eden that you end up doing contentedly on a regular basis OR it's whatever you try that bores you to death and convinces you to stop playing for an extended period. I would imagine that PI fits both criteria, depending on who you ask.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.02.21 17:15:00 - [10] I thought about running, but didn't have a passport, nor the time to acquire one. Going to take care of that around May, so maybe next CSM we'll see a Dethmourne for Prez-for-life ca... I mean, for CSM campaign
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.21 18:19:00 - [11] I noticed that this thread is about "Oh god, we've never had a MD'er on the CSM" and not about "What can MD bring to the CSM table?"
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.21 18:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Brock Nelson I noticed that this thread is about "Oh god, we've never had a MD'er on the CSM" and not about "What can MD bring to the CSM table?" Those questions are not wholly separate. We probably have better discussion on the in game economics here than you'll ever see in the Jita Park Assembly whatever threads.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.02.21 18:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Kalrand Those questions are not wholly separate. We probably have better discussion on the in game economics here than you'll ever see in the Jita Park Assembly whatever threads. We certainly have a didactic role to play, and can possibly build on that to inform and then shift public policy in a few notable areas. However, forming public policy is no light responsibility. It's too much for one candidate to perform alone. One possible approach may be to form a lobby and then go through the list of existing members of the CSM, cobble together some kind of a common platform on key market and financial security issues, then push forward that way. Originally by: Brock Nelson I noticed that this thread is about "Oh god, we've never had a MD'er on the CSM" and not about "What can MD bring to the CSM table?" A mutual convergence of self-interest is always the most reliable and happy method.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.02.21 19:17:00 - [14] Ok, Ok, I'll run. Now stop pressuring me.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.21 19:25:00 - [15] I almost ran once (even posted, got good feedback). Still intend to, but when I have the time...not for another year to two years.
Wyke Mossari Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:23:00 - [16] I think the current CSM has been one of the most successful, however it is still dominated by the interests of the large alliances, none of the current incumbents can be considered carebears.
Raid'En	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Raid''En on 21/02/2011 20:32:55 Originally by: Kalrand Those questions are not wholly separate. We probably have better discussion on the in game economics here than you'll ever see in the Jita Park Assembly whatever threads. nothing force you to only talk economy on the MD forum, you can go to jita/assembly if you have ideas, you don't need to be CSM for that. ---------------- Wormhole Trading
Manalapan Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:35:00 - [18] Well I don't know if MD could get a designated candidate elected but really should look at all the candidates when the announcement is released and see if there is anyone that is looking for some of the solutions MD wants and back them. ------ Support Manalapan for CSM! Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger Manalapan Campaign
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:46:00 - [19] Posting in a Man, Hexx, AC thread! I feel ~~special~~ elite now.
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Kalrand I was just perusing Manalapan's "Vote for Manalapan" CSM thread, and it hit me that we really have never had anyone on the CSM. Perhaps it's time for some of the regulars on this forum to work on a consensus candidate and a economic-related platform. I mean, it's not like we don't have a ton of issues that we all complain about. Great, Manalapan who ran a fail/SCAM business. Made repeated promises over 2-3 years to pay the shareholders back, never did.
Gabriel Rosencrantz Red Frog Freight	Posted - 2011.02.21 20:58:00 - [21] I just assumed no MD regular would give up his RL identity for the opportunity to run. It would be interesting to see the real people behind the "colorful" personalities of MD.
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.21 21:58:00 - [22] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Kalrand I was just perusing Manalapan's "Vote for Manalapan" CSM thread, and it hit me that we really have never had anyone on the CSM. Perhaps it's time for some of the regulars on this forum to work on a consensus candidate and a economic-related platform. I mean, it's not like we don't have a ton of issues that we all complain about. Great, Manalapan who ran a fail/SCAM business. Made repeated promises over 2-3 years to pay the shareholders back, never did. I actually think the biggest problem with Manalapan isn't that he stole people's money, but that he burned out for an extended period of time.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2011.02.21 22:06:00 - [23] Originally by: cosmoray Great, Manalapan who ran a fail/SCAM business. Made repeated promises over 2-3 years to pay the shareholders back, never did. Not only that. he ran for CSM before and promised ISK for votes. But Mana aside, for me the ideal (MD) candidate would have two points on his agenda: the economy and the API (which most of us heavily use, I guess). While the API was long treated like the black sheep of the family, but has picked up speed lately, there's still lot of place for improvement. And I personally rather have knowledgeable people in certain parts of the game in the CSM, which admit that they have no clue about <other part of game> than those jack of all trades who know a bit about everything but only ever scratched the surface of each game feature. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.21 22:17:00 - [24] So in order to get elected to the CSM one should want whats best for 0.0, MD, industralists, and any other special interests. I can promise the world and deliver on nothing, just like a real politician
Manalapan Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.21 23:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Kalrand I was just perusing Manalapan's "Vote for Manalapan" CSM thread, and it hit me that we really have never had anyone on the CSM. Perhaps it's time for some of the regulars on this forum to work on a consensus candidate and a economic-related platform. I mean, it's not like we don't have a ton of issues that we all complain about. Great, Manalapan who ran a fail/SCAM business. Made repeated promises over 2-3 years to pay the shareholders back, never did. I actually think the biggest problem with Manalapan isn't that he stole people's money, but that he burned out for an extended period of time. Yes, DBANK did rather burn me out. I did not play much for months after the DBANK scandal and have not made too much effort to come back to MD. I find that without any project the forums grind on me a little. ------ Support Manalapan for CSM! Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger Manalapan Campaign
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2011.02.21 23:18:00 - [26] Never really understood the idea of wanting to be on the CSM. Sounds awfully like a job to me. Will I get paid? Nope. Anyone who has finished college/school and has started their career realises that committees and meetings are a big waste of time and is time in your life you won't get back. Exception being anyone who works in the Public Sector or HR, as they spend all day in meetings justifying why they get paid!!
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.21 23:21:00 - [27] Originally by: cosmoray Never really understood the idea of wanting to be on the CSM. The chance to drink with the CCP staff and possible have an impact on the game itself.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.22 00:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: cosmoray Never really understood the idea of wanting to be on the CSM. The chance to drink with the CCP staff and possible have an impact on the game itself. Don't forget about insider info that will impact the market
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.22 00:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: cosmoray Never really understood the idea of wanting to be on the CSM. The chance to drink with the CCP staff and possible have an impact on the game itself. Don't forget about insider info that will impact the market Oh hell, I'd just love a chance to sit down and drink with the guys/gals. They seem like a friendly lot to hang out with. With StevieG and Fallout being icing on the cake
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.22 01:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Breaker77 Oh hell, I'd just love a chance to sit down and drink with the guys/gals. They seem like a friendly lot to hang out with. With StevieG and Fallout being icing on the cake Just don't pass out...you know how CCP can be when it comes to passed out player
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.22 01:07:00 - [31] Originally by: Brock Nelson Just don't pass out...you know how CCP can be when it comes to passed out player Does it involve probing mechanics??
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.22 01:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Brock Nelson Just don't pass out...you know how CCP can be when it comes to passed out player Does it involve probing mechanics?? And a broken broom stick handle
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.02.22 02:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Brock Nelson Just don't pass out...you know how CCP can be when it comes to passed out player Does it involve probing mechanics?? This is why I want to run, for the chance to pass out around CCP guys with probes.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.02.22 03:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Brock Nelson Don't forget about insider info that will impact the market Not being able to speculate on upcoming big changes would be a big hinderance to any MD denizens...
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.22 03:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Brock Nelson Don't forget about insider info that will impact the market Not being able to speculate on upcoming big changes would be a big hinderance to any MD denizens... You can "speculate" on upcoming changes to the game, just gotta do a better job of hiding it compared to the last few CSM members that have been booted off the council for doing so.
Companion Qube Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc	Posted - 2011.02.22 08:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Breaker77 Posting in a Man, Hexx, AC thread! I feel ~~special~~ elite now. You're not Elite until you have a custom leather chair or a failed internetspacebux bank. drunkpoasting best poasting
Manalapan Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.22 19:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Companion Qube Originally by: Breaker77 Posting in a Man, Hexx, AC thread! I feel ~~special~~ elite now. You're not Elite until you have a custom leather chair or a failed internetspacebux bank. It a really comfortable chair and if only I still had some brandy to wash down my tasty 'internetspacebux' ------ Support Manalapan for CSM! Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger Manalapan Campaign
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:32:00 - [38] I threw my hat in. I'll be making a post in the assembly hall later on, but here is my platform: Quote: I believe that the in game economy is the lens through which CCP should view any proposed change or action. Additionally, I believe that: - Small bands of players should be able to afford, conquer, and hold parts of 0.0 space. - Industrial Command Ships should be expanded to include a T2 Orca. - A POS module to allow T3 subsystem changes in space should be implemented. - A redesign of Level 5 missions to focus on group play. - T2 Battleships should be reconfigured to have a better defined role in the game. - Salvage Drones should finally be implemented. - Moon minerals, specifically Technetium, need to be rebalanced. - Further action should be taken to combat botting. - Faction warfare should be more lucrative for it's participants, and the ramifications should have an economic effect on the systems captured. - The in-game market tools should be overhauled much like the contracts system. - Mining and manufacturing should be significantly more rewarding in low sec space, due to it's danger. Also small corporations should be able to claim the resources of Low Sec systems, preparing them to move to 0.0.
Misty McGinnity	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:55:00 - [39] Best of luck mate, all trolling aside your ideas are tbh fantastic.
Mike'P	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:24:00 - [40] Edited by: Mike''P on 24/02/2011 00:26:24 I'm terribly sorry, but I missed the part where we forgave Manalapan for either (a) intentionally scamming; or (b) unintentionally scamming with RL excuses vis a vis DBANK. Either way, in his election thread, it seems a really weak rebuttal on his part to say that this gives him insight into the plight of scammed players. "I got a bit tired and my website crashed/potentially got hacked" - I'd like to see that instead of the "run over by a bus" paragraph in most MD offerings. You'd probably not want to select CSM candidates based on their proven ability to get burnt out, Putting this to one side, surely the single most pressing issue we have in MD is an in-game method of securing investments without relying on third-party collateral. We've just seen Cosmoray get tarred with the suspicion brush for volunteering to hold 'too much' collateral. I certainly don't claim to have an easy solution, but surely that is the one single thing that an 'MD' minded CSM candidate should take to Iceland ? Edit: poor grammar
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.02.24 21:32:00 - [41] Originally by: Kalrand I threw my hat in. Didn't see that coming [/sarcasm]
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.02.24 23:11:00 - [42] The problem is even with an MD Backed CSM, they are outnumbered by alliance backed numb nuts wanting 0.0 to be more to their alliances liking.. In order to make a significant change that MD wants, you'd need several people as CSM with the backing of MD at the same time. While LVV and OZ where both EBANK at the time they where CSM, CCP was very interesting in what they had to say, but it was quickly squashed as a "back issue" by the CSMs that wanted nothing to do with it. One year, we'll all band together and push for multiple MD Backed CSMs to get the Majority seats.. Until then we're kind of riding the coat tails of the Alliances Amarr for Life
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.25 01:06:00 - [43] Originally by: SencneS One year, we'll all band together and push for multiple MD Backed CSMs to get the Majority seats.. Until then we're kind of riding the coat tails of the Alliances And dilute the vote?
Wyke Mossari Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.25 01:59:00 - [44] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: SencneS One year, we'll all band together and push for multiple MD Backed CSMs to get the Majority seats.. Until then we're kind of riding the coat tails of the Alliances And dilute the vote? Or leverage them like we do with capital.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.02.25 02:02:00 - [45] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Or leverage them like we do with capital. Herding sheeps is harder than you think. Especially in MD
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.02.25 15:24:00 - [46] Edited by: SencneS on 25/02/2011 15:24:49 Originally by: Brock Nelson Herding sheeps is harder than you think. Especially in MD That's why I said - "One year...." we don't have the votes to pull off a multiple CSM election. There always seems to be about 2-3 "low" votes those are the ones we should try and take when we do. We also have the option of literally buying votes. Our purchase power combined will allow us to offer things other CSM's just can't compete with. From what I can see, there is nothing in the rules that states we can't entice voters. Making sure those votes get achieved is another thing, but thankfully in the world of EVE, political donations of any magnitude to buy, threaten, pay for votes is not agents the rules. :) Sheep are easy to herd if you have the right incentive. Edit:- P.S. I looked for about 2 minutes to see if you where not allowed to pay for votes, so research wasn't very in-depth. Amarr for Life
Magnu Stormhawk Stormhawk Enterprises	Posted - 2011.02.25 15:48:00 - [47] Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 25/02/2011 15:24:49 Originally by: Brock Nelson Herding sheeps is harder than you think. Especially in MD That's why I said - "One year...." we don't have the votes to pull off a multiple CSM election. There always seems to be about 2-3 "low" votes those are the ones we should try and take when we do. We also have the option of literally buying votes. Our purchase power combined will allow us to offer things other CSM's just can't compete with. From what I can see, there is nothing in the rules that states we can't entice voters. Making sure those votes get achieved is another thing, but thankfully in the world of EVE, political donations of any magnitude to buy, threaten, pay for votes is not agents the rules. :) Sheep are easy to herd if you have the right incentive. Edit:- P.S. I looked for about 2 minutes to see if you where not allowed to pay for votes, so research wasn't very in-depth. Screw the carrots. Bring on the sticks! Works for some plenty of regimes
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.02.25 15:49:00 - [48] Edited by: flakeys on 25/02/2011 15:49:01 Originally by: SencneS Edit:- P.S. I looked for about 2 minutes to see if you where not allowed to pay for votes, so research wasn't very in-depth. Our good friend mana tried that a year ago it seems.So we can easily say that unlike rl buying them probably won't be what you are looking for here. Oh and btw kal , i love those ideas.
Wyke Mossari Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.25 15:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: Wyke Mossari Or leverage them like we do with capital. Herding sheeps is harder than you think. Especially in MD I have some experience herding cats, sheep are easy by comparison. 1) Public endorsement. 2) Tactical voting. 3) A block vote.
Fleshbot	Posted - 2011.02.25 16:50:00 - [50] Originally by: cosmoray Exception being anyone who works in the Public Sector or HR, as they spend all day in meetings justifying why they get paid!! You just about convinced me to run (I work in HR). Having a choice between sitting in on a meeting here or Iceland, I think I'll pick the land of fire and ice. Some points, one voice on the CSM team isn't going to mean much when all the others are O.0 alliance folks or Carebears. Also there is the classic issue around selecting a person to run. Does the public elect a person they trust to raise issues that are important to them, or does the public select issues that the delegate is entrusted to raise? I think in either case we should certainly come up with a list of what our priorities are and press that upon our candidate (Karland looks like). I think the largest Hurdle is that quite frankly there are so few of us that see ourselves as a unified block. Too many industrialist that don't think they are part of the market, etc. And one recommendation Karland, if you do win, trade votes. Even if you agree to a proposal, play it shy, make sure you can get other people to agree to support you if you agree to support them, don't be a **** about it but politicking is important in small groups like this. Otherwise you can easily get steamrolled by the majority.
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.02.25 17:10:00 - [51] Hi, I've never posted in the forums or voted for a CSM but I like this idea. I believe I'll vote for Kalrand.
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.25 17:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Fleshbot Some points, one voice on the CSM team isn't going to mean much when all the others are O.0 alliance folks or Carebears. <snip> And one recommendation Kalrand, if you do win, trade votes. If anything, I'd be aligned with the "0.0 block" but not beholden to them. If you look at my ideas, they're all things (minus the Tech rebalance and botting) that I think I can get added to their agenda, as they would be good for them too or are just a good ideas in general that won't affect them.

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