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Jerick Ludhowe
Yenaldlooshi
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Posted - 2011.02.27 16:20:00 -
[61]
We all know that they are not going to change webs back to the state they were... No 90% outside of very specific hulls...
The real issue lies in many of the t1 and t2 "blaster" hulls. The simple solution would be to re-visit these ships and see what if anything is needed to allow them to fill their niche in a more meaningful way. The majority of the issues come from the lack of grid, speed, and in some cases a single low slot.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.02.27 16:30:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 27/02/2011 16:32:04
 Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
Laser tracking boosts. It was one of many attempts to fix lasers over many years. However, when they finally found something that solved the issue, the previous attempts were not rolled back, creating a reasonable damage, good range, good tracking weapon. So something that covered all the bases and ate into the strengths of other weapon systems.
Tracking enhancers effecting falloff. Not a bad change, but created a reasonable damage (due to flexibility in damage type), good range, excellent tracking weapon system. Something that covers all the bases, and so again eats into the strengths of other weapons.
Very much this. As long as Pulse and ACs are able to deal near-blaster DPS at close range in addition to projecting damage to medium-range, blasters will be close to pointless. Pulse, in particular, has far too much tracking for a medium-range weapon., and Scorch is just silly. The problem is not only blasters, it's also lasers and ACs.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.27 19:07:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
Laser tracking boosts. It was one of many attempts to fix lasers over many years. However, when they finally found something that solved the issue, the previous attempts were not rolled back, creating a reasonable damage, good range, good tracking weapon. So something that covered all the bases and ate into the strengths of other weapon systems.
Tracking enhancers effecting falloff. Not a bad change, but created a reasonable damage (due to flexibility in damage type), good range, excellent tracking weapon system. Something that covers all the bases, and so again eats into the strengths of other weapons.
Very much this. As long as Pulse and ACs are able to deal near-blaster DPS at close range in addition to projecting damage to medium-range, blasters will be close to pointless. Pulse, in particular, has far too much tracking for a medium-range weapon., and Scorch is just silly. The problem is not only blasters, it's also lasers and ACs.
Nothing of this makes you consider flying a ship that is just as helpless and ineffective at point blank ranges as anything else.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.02.28 08:09:00 -
[64]
While I certainly dream of a day when 90% webs existed..
The real reason you want them back so you can go tackle things as you multi-box behind your pimped out BS
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.28 12:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
While I certainly dream of a day when 90% webs existed..
The real reason you want them back so you can go tackle things as you multi-box behind your pimped out BS
Paranona is never good for spaceship business and certainly not for the sake of balance.
Isn't there the right point and the essence of gallente blaster ships than to be able to stuck you at close/short range and melt your face faster than you can say "lalala"?
The only difference with webs at 90% on blaster hulls and what we have today is that you'll never see anymore all the unbrained pawns/unskilled turtles look at the blaster hull smilling all teeth out saying to him self "mwahaha gotcha", because 1sec later he can get poped. They will need some skils to do the job while today no skill is needed, just orbit at 20+ and "shoot from there". |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.02.28 12:36:00 -
[66]
During a fight can one see the shield, the armor and the hull of a target going down, but not its capacitor. This is why some pilots rely on raw DPS and eHP numbers - it is the things they can see that are taking effect immediately and support their believes - instead of counting on the hidden differences in the ships. This is where some of the common misconceptions originate from. Dogmas that tell you to fight only while an advantage is visible support these misconceptions.
Gallente ships have more capacitor than Minmatar ships, for example. Therefore a speed advantage does not mean Minmatar ships can kite Gallente ships forever, but that they will run out of cap when they use their MWDs for too long. It is an invisible advantage that gets ignored because of the some of the existing dogmas.
Better accept that some dogmas do not help and that it sometimes needs a leap of faith in order to win.
By the way, one does not fight a frigate in a battleship by webbing and shooting at the frigate, but by neutralizing the frigate's capacitor and by using drones.
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DHB WildCat
Flash Over.
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Posted - 2011.02.28 12:49:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
While I certainly dream of a day when 90% webs existed..
The real reason you want them back so you can go tackle things as you multi-box behind your pimped out BS
Sometimes I wonder if people actually play this game or if I just have more experience actually pvp'ing and everyone lese just carebears sometimes.
I do not always fly *pimp faction Battleships. So stop assuming everything. Secondly every example I have been using has been with battlecruiser sized ships and lower.
Third for all you people that say deal with frigs with nuets and drones.... I laugh at you. Do you guys actually play this game? You think you can nuet a frig with a mod that has 24 second activiation time long enough to be of any use? The frig has enough cap to reactivate any mod before momentum has a chance to slow it down enough. Also you guys do know drones can be killed, and that light drones are often times SLOWER than frigs! So they cannot catch them to do damage!
I mean really... does anyone else actually pvp out there? I feel like Im trying to explain whats wrong with a race type to people that have never played the game before... Its not that gallente are broken... the other races need to come back in line with them!
When CCP tried to fix a problem years ago the create several more than fixing one, and even completely broke a race out of existence.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.28 13:34:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Swynet on 28/02/2011 13:35:14
Originally by: Whitehound
By the way, one does not fight a frigate in a battleship by webbing and shooting at the frigate, but by neutralizing the frigate's capacitor and by using drones.
I must say lol sorry. Whenever you comit to a fight with any gallente hull and specially bs sized hulls: AB frigs are faster than your drones (assuming the pilot is skilled), at 3km you have nothing able to hit it and if the pilot has some brains he will get his own drones out just to pop yours and keep scraming/webbing you untill reinforcements jump in.
Sure this is the average one, but you can always find pawns relying their own skils on 2+ T2 logis and get here saying "olol gallente are fine".
Well try to do the same against an amarrian BS and your frig will get insta poped lolscorch "shot you from here" (not saying it's impossible), or worst, try to do it against minie bs ac's/missiles/drones and watch your frig say "pop".
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Originally by: Goose99
In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2011.02.28 14:16:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 28/02/2011 14:26:33
Originally by: DHB WildCat
I do not always fly *pimp faction Battleships. So stop assuming everything. Secondly every example I have been using has been with battlecruiser sized ships and lower.
The perspective seem very BS-oriented though, wether that is your fault or the amount of people incorrectly picking up on that and twisting onto it.
I mean, going back to the first page, that's what my question stemmed from. Someone else already replied to your explanation to my questions, and while not expressing himself very open minded, at least pointed to the argument i tried to make back there. That's why i never bothered to reply to your retort, but now i feel it's in order as the discussion has transpired.
I belive you and i can agree on that... flying a small gang vs. larger has almost always meant utilizing mobility in your favour (wether it's speed or range) since it will often be a problem for you to stand up in a slugfest. Many of the concepts formed for that reason doesn't really have a problem catching or killing other small and fast ships; wether we talk about nano HACs, sniper HACs, cloaky Recon gangs or specialized frigate gangs (to some degree even the odd AHAC gangs that still exist). Vagas, Rapiers and Dramiels all have fairly good success rates of blitzing advancing ships, as is.
I don't see that many sub-BS ships that would have anything to gain from a web increase, even the sub-BS gallente Hybrid platforms.
Instead, much like the other person who responded, the side with the numbers will utilize a web increase far better, and use them to catch the few somewhat feasible undermanned gangs that still exist. If you wish to do away with small tackle or specialised tackle (eg., Recons) today it's far easier than how it's going to be if all of them catch you at worse momentum (before you've built up speed or range etc). Not to mention how much it would do for an already good ship, like the Rapier, to drop a web in favour of tank so "the blob" can keep him up much easier - while he holds down one of your five ships - versus your small gang's already challenging damage ratio.
Better webs, is much more likely to let blobs bleed smaller groups of ships and diminish their chance of engagement than it is to aid small gangs or solve problems for sub-BS Blaster boats.
I belive most sub-BS Hybrid platforms would have more to gain from not always being forced to Ion downgrades and/or not utilizing all it's slots.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.02.28 14:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Whitehound
By the way, one does not fight a frigate in a battleship by webbing and shooting at the frigate, but by neutralizing the frigate's capacitor and by using drones.
I must say lol sorry. Whenever you comit to a fight with any gallente hull and specially bs sized hulls: AB frigs are faster than your drones (assuming the pilot is skilled), at 3km you have nothing able to hit it and if the pilot has some brains he will get his own drones out just to pop yours and keep scraming/webbing you untill reinforcements jump in.
I have underlined it for you.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.02.28 14:52:00 -
[71]
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Third for all you people that say deal with frigs with nuets and drones.... I laugh at you. Do you guys actually play this game? You think you can nuet a frig with a mod that has 24 second activiation time long enough to be of any use? The frig has enough cap to reactivate any mod before momentum has a chance to slow it down enough.
If you would PvP then you would have better arguments than to present yourself as a pompous dumbass, imho. A heavy neutralizer turns a frigate off in one shot and for long enough for you to warp out or to have some Ogres chewing at it. It just needs you to align and get up to 75% speed before you neutralize the frigate's capacitor and to warp out.
Are you sure you PvP? Maybe you are only trying to PvP. 
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Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
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Posted - 2011.02.28 15:22:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Baneken on 28/02/2011 15:24:14
If the a said frig is in range of a disruptor it's not going warp anywhere while being neuted or not, also if you get (un)lucky neut cycle on you; you aren't going to jump either when game considers your cap as being on "negative".
Also Ogre II has 5-6km optimal so they don't have to run after to shoot if a frig orbits close enough to bs, that they do try to run after target anyway is more of an issue with drone AI itself then what Ogre II's actually could do.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:13:00 -
[73]
The web change hurt any blaster ship, bigger than a frig, the most for the simple reason that it takes away her ability to dedicate range and track properly at close range in solo/small gang scenarios(it also had a very bad effect for BS in this scenarios). It doesn't affected bigger gangs much, since you got far more tackle and focus fire from different direction is just as deadly as before.
It was a plain solo/small gang nerf for BS and blaster ships, that was unneeded and had nothing to do with the nano problem.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:33:00 -
[74]
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Third for all you people that say deal with frigs with nuets and drones.... I laugh at you. Do you guys actually play this game? You think you can nuet a frig with a mod that has 24 second activiation time long enough to be of any use? The frig has enough cap to reactivate any mod before momentum has a chance to slow it down enough.
Just want to point out that I recently killed some ex-IT guy's Crow thanks to 1 heavy neut. I was in neutron blaster ship with Null ammo, he was MWD'ing at 22 km. After 2nd neut cycle he lost the MWD for a short while, and as soon as he activated it, my large blaster insta popped him.
Granted, that was pretty damn lucky on my part, and the pilot was a bit stupid (for a BoB guy). But it does work. Heavy neuts do help against frigs - sometimes, enough times to be useful.
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