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DHB WildCat Flash Over.	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:20:00 - [1] This Im sure is just one of many ideas, however I thought I would share to see what public opinion was on this. Why do hybrids / gallente suck? Is it becasue they have horrible range? Maybe.... Is it because their dps sucks ... NO. Is it because of only being able to choose 1 damage type... Yeah a little. Is it because they use large amount of cap to fire/ No not really. Is it because of their tracking? No. Whats the real issue? I believe its the fact that 1) You cannot catch your target. 2) If you do catch your target you cannot hold it there because of the web nerf. Hybrids are rather good if you can get into range and have multiple webs to hold your targets. So whats being proposed here? Reverse the web nerf. Cut all, yes all, everyone... ect's, speed in half. Give Gallente hybrid boats an MWD bonus to help them get into range (maybe too much on last point but Ill throw it out there anyways) Why? Well first off the web reverse is obvious. Would help all ships catch and hold targets. This thus would bring the zomg I win Angel ships back into line by removing their duel prop abilities... Yeah they could still duel prop but would be less effective. Why cut everyone speed down? Speed is a funny thing in eve. Frigs are meant to go fast and some hacs / recons too. The speed nerf hit us to remove typhoons from just owning everything. However, by the same point with the speed cut down Battleships and Battlecruisers would be able to fight smaller targets if caught.... and yes only if caught. They would still be fast enough to kite, run the numbers. Also this would be a boost to missiles bringing them back into line with guns as well. As well and probably most importantly, this would reduce the ability of people to run back to gates on jumping in, promoting team play / scouts / and more pvp. This would aslo bring electronic frigs back from the grave, especially the hyena. Now obviously things would have to be done to ensure that inties / af's/ and hacs like the vaga would still be able to kite and avoid tackle if they are a good pilot. I believe these changes to obviously help gallente / caldari to come back into line with minmatar and amarr. Also to bring Angel ships back to earth.... I still believe all ships involved could do what they had done before, but it would take more piloting skill to do so. Bringing back the philosophy of a few good pilots is better than a bunch of bad pilots. WildCat
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:41:00 - [2] Reversing the web nerf means that the biggest ship wins all the fights, just like the old days. Is your Mega getting tackled by a Dramiel? Dual web it and reduce it to ash. I'd rather buff hybrids. ùùùùù Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
DHB WildCat Flash Over.	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:44:00 - [3] Originally by: Seriously Bored Reversing the web nerf means that the biggest ship wins all the fights, just like the old days. Is your Mega getting tackled by a Dramiel? Dual web it and reduce it to ash. I'd rather buff hybrids. I could have sworn that webs went to 10km and points went to 24km? Am i wrong or do you just want to orbit any target at 500m and laugh as they cant defend themselves..... Your point is mute, you can still tackle your target in the dram without being harmed, just this way if you mess up you die instead of ... omg I messed up he webbed me....lmao he webbed me Ill just burn away and go back into orbit. WildCat
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2011.02.23 18:54:00 - [4] Originally by: DHB WildCat Would help all ships catch and hold targets. Originally by: DHB WildCat Bringing back the philosophy of a few good pilots is better than a bunch of bad pilots. The logic, please elaborate.
DHB WildCat Flash Over.	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Noisrevbus Originally by: DHB WildCat Would help all ships catch and hold targets. Originally by: DHB WildCat Bringing back the philosophy of a few good pilots is better than a bunch of bad pilots. The logic, please elaborate. Really? Okay... lets see 5 vs 20. Your 5 hang out kiting / annoying doing whatever. You stay out of their web range because you arent an idiot. Inevitably one of their fleet members will try to tackle you. You being 30 -40 km away tackle them and kill them. Picking off 1 or 2 at a time while the others try to get into range. Thus 5 can beat 20, because they are better than the blob. Make sense? WildCat
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:21:00 - [6] Posting in yet another how to fix gallente/hybrid idea-a-thon. I am sure this one is going to go places. - THC Rabidcat ?
Lord Booya	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Bumblefck Posting in yet another how to fix gallente/hybrid idea-a-thon. I am sure this one is going to go places. - THC Rabidcat Dont much care about the thread but very cute color you have there. Very manly, just like the mustache on your char.... you like it in the butt dont you.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Booya Originally by: Bumblefck Posting in yet another how to fix gallente/hybrid idea-a-thon. I am sure this one is going to go places. - THC Rabidcat Dont much care about the thread but very cute color you have there. Very manly, just like the mustache on your char.... you like it in the butt dont you. I do indeed. Some say that the ghost of the ancient Terran entertainer Freddie Mercury crossed my cloning vat at the moment of conception. But keep this thread on topic please. - THC Rabidcat ?
DHB WildCat Flash Over.	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Bumblefck Edited by: Bumblefck on 23/02/2011 19:30:54 Edited by: Bumblefck on 23/02/2011 19:30:29 Originally by: Lord Booya Originally by: Bumblefck Posting in yet another how to fix gallente/hybrid idea-a-thon. I am sure this one is going to go places. - THC Rabidcat Dont much care about the thread but very cute color you have there. Very manly, just like the mustache on your char.... you like it in the butt dont you. I do indeed. Some say that the ghost of the ancient Terran entertainer Freddie Mercury crossed my cloning vat at the moment of conception. But keep this thread on topic please. - THC Rabidcat e - I don't think we would like or need a return to the pre-nano nerf era. Ships going at a ludicrous clip was no fun at all. FIx hybrids(somehow) and the rest will fall into place Um you didnt read everything did you? This isnt pre nano nerf. please re-read then post again... pls dont make assumtions thank you
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:43:00 - [10] I have re-skimmed what you wrote and I take back what I said previously. I take it back, but I'm afrad that I must now replace it with 'What utter tosh'. The changes are frankly too baffling just in order to help the old blaster ships limp along. - THC Rabidcat PS. I am quite entitled to make assumptions about suggestion threads like this. Whilst some ideas might be unique, the chances are that it is not. Hence, certain general assumptions can be made ?

Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.02.23 19:50:00 - [11] Poked my node into yet another Gallente thread, but only because DHB was the OP. I'm not fond of cutting all speed in half. That will create a new balancing nightmare. What I could support is the oft-desired boost to tracking, plus an additional buff to Gallente ships. Let them be fast, but leave agility as is, or nerf it a touch. This gives them a role as the close range nasty dps monster and allows them to get into range to be that monster, but doesn't step on the toes of the Minmatar which are the agile "catch me if you can" types. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/02/2011 20:14:35 Originally by: DHB WildCat 2) If you do catch your target you cannot hold it there because of the web nerf. Turning off their MWD with your scrambler and webbing them works pretty well, as those that dont want to get caught in webrange dont fit scramblers... you have two speed control tools, they have none. Also, reviving the 90% webs, or any web strength buff for that matter, is a utterly horrible idea.
Zilberfrid	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:10:00 - [13] It takes too long to get into range if you ever succeed in that at all. Your solution is to cut all speeds, and thus dv's in half. It now takes double the time to get into range if you ever get in range at all. I fail to see your logic. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.02.23 20:15:00 - [14] Well, I'm going to bow out now. But I thought I'll leave this for you, OP, as it refutes your suggestions a lot better and succinctly than I can. -THC Rabidcat ?
Djerin Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: DHB WildCat 2) If you do catch your target you cannot hold it there because of the web nerf. Turning off their MWD with your scrambler and webbing them works pretty well, as those that dont want to get caught in webrange dont fit scramblers... you have two speed control tools, they have none. You must have misquoted WildCat as that was his point. It is extremely difficult to tackle anything with a scram. The reason is the short range of it. Without the help of an anchorable bubble or a dictor/hictor you miss at least 90% of all opportunities to tackle anything. And the bubble only helps you if you set it up to drag people. Bubbling gates almost always results in enemies MWDing out of the bubble and warping off because you cant get in range with a blasterboat. I guess in empire a scram is practically useless. Long story short: you cannot dictate range with a scram if you can't get in range. Originally by: Omara Otawan Also, reviving the 90% webs, or any web strength buff for that matter, is a utterly horrible idea. Tell me one reason for that. And don't try to convince me how some sh*tty frig should be able to survive under blasters while being webbed. That's just plain wrong. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:35:00 - [16] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/02/2011 21:36:24 Originally by: Djerin You must have misquoted WildCat as that was his point. It is extremely difficult to tackle anything with a scram. I didnt misquote anything. Scram acts as speed control just like webs do, and combining both is already very powerful for short range boats. Thats all there is to it. If you want to keep it at close range, use the scram + web combo. If you want good inital tackle and close-range speed control, use longpoint + web. If you want to kite outside webrange, use longpoint only. Having great speed control at close-range means you have bad long-range tackle capability, tough luck. Same goes for kiting setups that have no speed control to keep the target from burning back to gate, tough luck. Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Omara Otawan Also, reviving the 90% webs, or any web strength buff for that matter, is a utterly horrible idea. Tell me one reason for that. And don't try to convince me how some sh*tty frig should be able to survive under blasters while being webbed. That's just plain wrong. That it would break the balance regarding different hull sizes and shift balance towards the biggest hulls as you point out is only one issue. The next issue is that it removes web-range kiting as a tactic, which isnt easy in the first place. Like it or not, kiting another short-range boat at the edge of scram range is a valid tactic. It would also insanely overpower gatecamps, which is too easy to do anyways and doesnt need any further buffs.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Omara Otawan Also, reviving the 90% webs, or any web strength buff for that matter, is a utterly horrible idea. It isn't, at least is not that bad than ships using capless weapons systems that could fit 2 MWD are capable to hit everything with their autocanons even over 800m/s. Yes, the reign of pwnmobiles would be horribly touched, those pilots would need a little more skils than just overpowerd class ships and afk youp orn. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Denevive Hadah Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.23 21:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Denevive Hadah on 23/02/2011 21:46:25 Hate to sound like a noob, but here goes! I'm a returning player. Back in 2007 Galentte were considered to be good. (as far as I knew anyways) sniper eagles would instant pop frigs and some cruisers at 100+km. But I'm assuming those days are gone, from the sound of the forums. so what was it that made Galentte 'less desirable'? and what was the web nerf? were hybrids also nerf'ed since then? Edit: I know an eagle is Caldari but I meant it in the hybird weapons sense
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:05:00 - [19] My hypothesis is that the op is a gatecamper who doesn't fly gallente. The proposed changes would make it an order of magnitude harder to get back to a gate, but would make it take twice as long for a blaster boat to get in range of the target. Lets consider how much your survivability would drop. 50% speed translates directly. 90% webs means you are going 25% of the 60% web speeds. 50% * 25% = 12.5%. That means it would be 8 times harder to get back to a gate and 2 times harder for blaster boats to close range. TLDR; GAYLENTE NERF, GATECAMP UBERBUFF, ME NO LIKEY
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.23 22:11:00 - [20] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1460352

Lord Booya	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Hiroshima Jita My hypothesis is that the op is a gatecamper who doesn't fly gallente. The proposed changes would make it an order of magnitude harder to get back to a gate, but would make it take twice as long for a blaster boat to get in range of the target. Lets consider how much your survivability would drop. 50% speed translates directly. 90% webs means you are going 25% of the 60% web speeds. 50% * 25% = 12.5%. That means it would be 8 times harder to get back to a gate and 2 times harder for blaster boats to close range. TLDR; GAYLENTE NERF, GATECAMP UBERBUFF, ME NO LIKEY Honestly if you dont know the op then you really have no right to post here. It negates anything you say right away. Also stop with the gallente posts, we get it.... they suck they cant get into range to do damage, hybrid are poor, one damage type.... we know. Convince the devs the race is broken not us. Everyone with a brain already knows this!
Lt Angus Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:22:00 - [22] atleast wildcat knows his ** but that was never in doubt How I'd Fix Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers**
Djerin Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Omara Otawan Scram acts as speed control just like webs do They would if you could actually tackle stuff. But in real Eve you hardly can. Unless you set up people or use a gang it is next to impossible to tackle anything with a scram. In a blasterboat that is. Of course a ceptor or recon can do it. But they do it only for a gang that can consist of any kind of scrub ships to finish off the prey. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Cygnus Zhada	Posted - 2011.02.23 23:37:00 - [24] Hybrids aren't the issue, it's lasers and projectiles which are the problem. If you drop pulse range their advantages over anyone else will be gone, at that point they need to get in closer to do damage. That or they need to sacrifice slots to up their range again which means they'll be less effective in other situations. The whole projectile changes from a while back are silly, it's way too powerful to have almost full control over your damage type with high dps ammo. Apart from that the whole TC/TE changes are way too good, AC's get way too much falloff. It's not the webs that need to be changed, it's the ridiculously OP range capabilities of others that need to be addressed forcing people to commit to a fight again if they want to do some damage, resulting in Gallente doing better. --- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. EVE tutorials
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:05:00 - [25] how about we just undo the whole Great Nano Nerf thing? Not only does it screw up blaster boats, but it hurts small gang PvP, and it makes EVE less FUN to play. And making EVE fun to play should be #1 priority Reverse the nerf completely and apply a new nerf: reduce polycarb rigs from 15% to 10% mass reduction.
DHB WildCat Flash Over.	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:26:00 - [26] Edited by: DHB WildCat on 24/02/2011 00:28:46 I agree with you ephem, The only thing I would do then is to change it so Battleships couldnt do over 5km/sec. It was kinda silly with guys like us in machs doing 30km/sec. Otherwise I do agree. I didnt like Battleships going fast, but it made it feasable for a couple of guys to go out and have fun on a sat night without waiting for 300 more people to log on and go with. On a side note, to those who think a scram solves all problems. Have you ever tried to get into scram range with gallente? It isnt going to happen. Speed isnt the only issue in that scenario, its locking time too. I would put a Astarte and a vaga at zero not moving and say go. Astarte having a scram and web... 10 Bil isk says the vaga gets out of scram and web range before its locked! Now lets say a dram is scrammed and DOUBLE webbed. Did you know that it will still do 800m/sec dual webbed with afterburber, and 2km/sec with an MWD! Still cant hit it with anything larger than a cruiser. At least back in the nano days when a target was caught it died... its too easy to live through mistakes in the present day eve.
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Bluejacket CT on 24/02/2011 00:37:23 Tracking buff Tracking buff Tracking buff Tracking buff Edit: MOAR POWERGRID
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:38:00 - [28] Originally by: DHB WildCat On a side note, to those who think a scram solves all problems. Have you ever tried to get into scram range with gallente? It isnt going to happen. Speed isnt the only issue in that scenario, its locking time too. I would put a Astarte and a vaga at zero not moving and say go. Astarte having a scram and web... 10 Bil isk says the vaga gets out of scram and web range before its locked! What makes you think a battleship or a command ship should be able to lock a cruiser that fast anyway? I see where you are coming from with the scram, it definitely is hard to pull off say catching people on gates that are not willing to engage with just a scram. Then again, you can just go with the longpoint + web or longpoint + scram alternative. Losing the longrange tackle capability is the price you pay for improved speed control.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:39:00 - [29] Personally, ability to outfit a battleship with 5-7 km/s speed was crucial in allowing battleships to be used effectively in small roaming gangs of 0.0 Given that such battleships cost billions, plus another 2 billion in implants, I didn't see it has that much of a problem. The cost of it justified the power. It was hard to kill, but in the end it always died. All things die in EVE If it's ok to spend 16 billion on supercarrier with insane EHP, high damage, long range neuts/smartbombs, and total immunity to EW. It should be ok to spend 4 billion on battleship that can do 5 km/s Speed tactics are essential for elite PvP. And we need more elite PvP in EVE, besides the massive fleet battles.
TimMc Brutal Deliverance Gypsy Band	Posted - 2011.02.24 00:45:00 - [30] Posting in a wildcat thread.



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