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Kell Tarhun
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:00:00 -
[1]
Speaking on one of my fun characters who got proved 0.0 activity in almost all regions of 0.0. Why am i interrupting Dominion pilots silence.
I think someone has to make a stand. Someone has to say enaugh!
Main resons of all threads here is lag. Wchich is not fixed during lots of years of this game. Funny for me to realase a game and not to fix major issue during all those years it is on. It is been promised to reduced it - Heh ccp failed as earlier they wanted to eliminate it. What are the proofs for no action done.
Lemme tell you in couple paragraphs i personally participated
From 0.0 pvp/pve.
We all have heard about or participated in famouse fleet battles or even single pvp combat fleet. Truth is that after consideretly small ammount of ships is involved (more than 200) the lags appears. How that change combat:
Well the bigger fleet the more chance to win in general as more players got chance to randomly defroze from lag and make a shoot. The side that got less players got less percantage to make succesfull shoot. Remember those drone fleets in afk mode moving back when server crashed? Not much changed after.....4-5 years.
Thats more than sad. Where is honest and combat spirit in such game mechanic. Actual skills of individual players do not matter that much, fits we pay so much attention same. Who is on winner side got nothing to do with tactic, skills more about math and numbers of those involved and current mood of server lag.
Those who got small numbers are unable to use their advantage of being small, agile - easier to move small numbers of players. It hits them especially hard.
Your attention from lag is moved because of news from EveNews site or others news sources wchich are actuall under influence of ccp.
I have been and i am in 0.0 biggest alliances and most influencial ones (always top 10 fighting or connected with) for a long time. Thing is THEY ARE ALL actually under influence of those who make this game (like emplyees). With such major issue as that LAG makes COMBAT NOT HONEST. CCP is forced to manipulate players minds with something else.
"Game improvements" that has been introduced are all corrupted by lag issue. You need to control alliance, communication network, market mining to make all working
FROM miner expierience
Lag is major issue from pvpers as well as miners. Less trust to ship combat, lower profits from selling minerals for ships but why is that? Well dominion helped those who cheat in game make mining bots and use them. Thats easier than before. Cheater starts making mining character in shorter time than beffore implant change. Lots of CCP graphs to prove it. So whats was response of CCP: HULKAGEDONS in their propaganda news sites. Now everyone should shoot bots and REAL MINERS to make their life even harder. Is LAG directly hitting miners, nope but chain of reaction hurts miners badly.
Mission Runners:
Do they even exist? In the past where lvl 5 missions were possible to make there was strong mission runner nation among eve players. Introduced by propaganda movies and things like that. You made unable to do lvl 5 in high sec to pull mission runners to 0.0. Thats massive fail as whats the point of moving your ships to areas full of pirates, risking LAG issue during the mission. Mission runner who makes lvl 5 missions almost extincted they are reduced to lvl 4's.
From Sov holder point of View
Lag problem is huge making unable to provide enaugh maintaince to sov structures. How to log in or move cap fleet in proper size to defend effectivielly against invaders. ALL FIGHTS FOR SOVEREIGNITY I HAVE BEEN PARTICIPATING HAD LAG.
Some had short lag like 1 hour, some longer like 3-6 hours lag.
How that makes this game fair - it ruins every aspect of Eve i could mention.
Some aspects in increadible way Thats why you loose players, thats why new players we introduce to game and train in game mechaching very fast leave it.
My only wish
RELASE THE KRAKEN TO FIX LAG!!
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Kell Tarhun
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:06:00 -
[2]
Personally starting found for Eve Veterans hit by LAG in any way. I am donating 500 mil for it. Those who are interested in any way to support that action are warm welcome to transfer isk.
I do not see any other way i could fight with LAG when CCP fails.
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:07:00 -
[3]
And here i was thinking i was posted a ranting thread...You must have used at least 250 rant points on this!
If fixing all lag was so easy as everyone hoped it was, it would have been fixed and then some... I vote for direct lines to CCP servers in London. Preferably fiber optics! And thus CCPNet was born.
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NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS
It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Pink is the color of passion xxx Shadow |
sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:11:00 -
[4]
I hardly have ever had any lag in eve to be honest on ageneral scale unless the server is broken and they reboot it. I have had lags in fleet fightd over the years and I can tell you the lag has improved but everytime they do something to mke it better then more players show up to trade in jita or a fleet fight goes form 300 vrs 300 to 500 vrs 500 ect. They are always 1 step behind the players and alot is todo with technology constratints.
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View The North Star! In All Its Glory!! |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:13:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Freyya
If fixing all lag was so easy as everyone hoped it was, it would have been fixed and then some... I vote for direct lines to CCP servers in London. Preferably fiber optics! And thus CCPNet was born.
Yes creating a lag was very easy , all it took was dominion expansion. Now, year has passed and no hope to even get close to apocrypha performance.
Dont you see something is wrong here ?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Freyya
If fixing all lag was so easy as everyone hoped it was, it would have been fixed and then some...
Lag has been fixed. Numerous times. It's just that CCP hasn't given people a reason not to go Katamari Damacy on the whole thing and create lag regardless. Some would even say that they've given us more reasons than ever to create a massive ball of lag to deal with the realities of today's gameplayà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Freyya
If fixing all lag was so easy as everyone hoped it was, it would have been fixed and then some... I vote for direct lines to CCP servers in London. Preferably fiber optics! And thus CCPNet was born.
Yes creating a lag was very easy , all it took was dominion expansion. Now, year has passed and no hope to even get close to apocrypha performance.
Dont you see something is wrong here ?
I can't remember the last time I had lag. Then again, I don't join the people who blob untill the servers collapse.
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Sverige Pahis
Caldari
Random Selection.
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sverige Pahis on 24/02/2011 11:25:34
OP. Leave high sec and then try. Lag has been considerably better in most fights I've been in during the fountain campaign. Actually quite impressive considering how unplayable some of the earlier ones were. And this is during 1000+ in local. To the tard saying "durrhurr today's performance is still nowhere near as good as apocrypha's", you blatently haven't seen it for yourself - it's even better than that nowadays.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Freyya
If fixing all lag was so easy as everyone hoped it was, it would have been fixed and then some...
Lag has been fixed. Numerous times. It's just that CCP hasn't given people a reason not to go Katamari Damacy on the whole thing and create lag regardless. Some would even say that they've given us more reasons than ever to create a massive ball of lag to deal with the realities of today's gameplayà
Speaking of Katamari Damancy....
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Medarr
Amarr
ZeroSec
Excuses.
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:30:00 -
[10]
More blobing > more lag | less blobing > less lag
cause > effect
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Freyya on 24/02/2011 11:33:46
Well ok let me put it this way: If CCP could fix lag foreverandeverandeverandever no matter how many people decide to blob up (or go katamari) it would have been done, and then some.
DOMINION WAS NOT THE MAIN CAUSE for increase in lag btw. Read a devblog once in a while, you might actually learn some techno babble. Dominion was just the last drop that flooded the bucket at that time. Lag since has been worked on and fixed alot but people just find other ways to lag out the competition. That and find they can have bigger fleet fights instead of 600 to 600 now they do 1000-1000, just because suddenly everyone wants to fight "cozz there's no lagzzz!" until too much join and then they can complain again about the lagzzzzzz! hence the spiral continues.
___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS
It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Pink is the color of passion xxx Shadow |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Freyya
DOMINION WAS NOT THE MAIN CAUSE for increase in lag btw.
Actually, in a way it was, but for game mechanics reasons rather than technical ones.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:51:00 -
[13]
No results for your query: "CCP Oughta"
I'm sorry but I don't think he will be able to answer your questions.
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CrazyDeathz
Gallente
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: CrazyDeathz on 24/02/2011 12:06:25
Edited by: CrazyDeathz on 24/02/2011 11:59:14
FROM miner expierience
Lag is major issue from pvpers as well as miners.
Enough said.
If that wasnt enough.
Mission Runners:
Do they even exist? In the past where lvl 5 missions were possible to make there was strong mission runner nation among eve players. Introduced by propaganda movies and things like that. You made unable to do lvl 5 in high sec to pull mission runners to 0.0. Thats massive fail as whats the point of moving your ships to areas full of pirates, risking LAG issue during the mission. Mission runner who makes lvl 5 missions almost extincted they are reduced to lvl 4's.
Guy has never left motsu me thinks 
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2011.02.24 14:26:00 -
[15]
I agree with the OP.
I've never been in a +1000 member fleet battle so I can only imagine the amount of LAG present. I'm sure it's hellacious to say the least.
However, I have been in the larger Cosmos Complexes where there's noticeable LAG due to all the wrecks, cans, NPC's, Drones and Player ships present in the plex. And that's with only one or two dozen or so players active in the system.
I'd hate to see it with just 10x that amount let alone 100x that amount.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.24 14:28:00 -
[16]
Thanks for bringing this up, we don't already have enough butthurt 0.0 sheeple whinging that their blobs run a bit slowly, so your contribution is both valued AND original.
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GateScout
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Posted - 2011.02.24 14:46:00 -
[17]
War on Drugs
War on Terrorism
War on Poverty
War on Lag
Similar problem space, same outcome.
You're *****ing about the wrong problem.
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VE3DVY
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kell Tarhun
Someone has to say enaugh!
Enaugh!
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Lex Alandar
Q Division 5
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Posted - 2011.02.24 17:10:00 -
[19]
As already mentioned, the main cause for lag is simply game mechanics.
In dominion, CCP implemented a sov warfare system that -- while being vastly 'different' from the old pos crapshoot -- still remained essentially the same in terms of tactics.
ie. either:
a)defenders bring so many they crash the node and any attackers are screwed.
b)attackers pre-emptively 'flood' the system with the inverse effect of a)
There is absolutely ZERO incentive for player alliances to bring less pilots. Bombers, while still useful in isolated situations, suffer even more from lag, due to the extremely precise nature of bombing runs.
Every mechanic favours the blob.
Seems an elementary answer would be to implement sov mechanics that do not favour the blob. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that's how we were sold on the dominion changes, no? It seemed at the time that small 'commando' fleets might be capable of actually taking a system. But that promise turned right back into the massive blobs that existed before with POS.
Now we have incursions, which is what exactly?? A server-load test for hi-sec that is going on at the same time?
And next, incarna, while the need for speed team focuses on a never-ending 'war on lag' (US' ineffective war on drugs, anyone?). You are game designers FFS CCP. Design your game so players are less inclined towards lag-fest as the ONLY OPTION!
Instead of continuing in the exact same direction, doing the exact same things, and expecting different results.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
I agree with the OP.
I've never been in a +1000 member fleet battle so I can only imagine the amount of LAG present. I'm sure it's hellacious to say the least.
However, I have been in the larger Cosmos Complexes where there's noticeable LAG due to all the wrecks, cans, NPC's, Drones and Player ships present in the plex. And that's with only one or two dozen or so players active in the system.
I'd hate to see it with just 10x that amount let alone 100x that amount.
Thats a problem on your end...
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Geralden
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:57:00 -
[21]
Dominion introduced several SOV mechanics that is producing the BLOB's of today.
The SOV structures takes insane amounts of ships to take down, some of them have to be shoot down 3 times.
Furthermore, what could be done before dominion - fleetfights with 400 vs 400 with NO LAG AT ALL is now a thing of the past.
If you clash 2 fleets of more than 200 vs 200, prepare for soulcrushing lag.
I really miss the day, where EVE developer time was spent on SPACESHIPS and not spacebarbie, planetary interaction, spacegate and eyecandy for those who dock op.
Try to please those who fly the ships instead of those who wish to play poker in a spacestaion... please.
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Kacer Xenro
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:03:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kacer Xenro on 24/02/2011 20:04:21
War in real life and lag in eve are related, here's the proof:
when there's war in real life, those who do not go to war gets sad, because they dont get to partake in all the fun, therefore they play eve, which results in more players in the fleets, which results in lag.
MY LOGIC IS BULLETPROOF
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:07:00 -
[23]
Hulkageddon causes lag.
(haven't seen a hag whine thread in a couple of hours...thought I'd toss out a lure...)
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Ai Shun
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.24 22:26:00 -
[24]
I've never tried to analyse the EVE protocol. I am guessing however that there would be some form of status communication to all clients when objects they can interact with change state, cycle or do something. There would likely be a form of activity "nagling" where clients are trusted to precalculate events that, for example, cycle and would have a limited external impact. I guess that depends on how paranoid the developers are and how much they want to restrict the risk of third parties overriding the servers' view of matters.
What it boils down to though is that when you are looking at a 1000 ships in a battle they are all active and doing things. Those activities needs to be communicated to all 999 other ships. (Or those within effect range, etc. - lots of potential optimisations)
The frequency / timing of such updates and the volume of them would be the major contributing factors in lag. I suspect though that this problem is not from the CCP servers or their data center pushing that out. They would have the capacity to handle it. But keep in mind that from the point of leaving their data center these packets need to route their way to you with all the vagaries of the internet thrown at them.
Then, battered and beaten by shoddy routers, prawn downloads, spam and all that induced latency, they arrive at your poor little router. All 999 of them. Do you have the bandwidth to handle the increased volume of traffic? How many of your fellow housemates / family members are busy on Youtube or PirateBay? There are so many factors that can potentially influence this.
So basically - what that oh so clever Tibbia said. It's game design, player behavior and the effects thereof. Plus just the internet.
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