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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 10:22:00 -
[1]
I'm trying to run for CSM, but I can tell even this early that I'm not doing well.
Honestly I'm doing badly.
There is really about 3 or 4 seats up for election this time around, depending on who you talk to. The "Great 0.0 Powerblocks" are instructing all of their members on who to vote for in order to focus their votes into 5 or 6 candidates, ensuring that they get enough to win seats. They don't have a majority of voters, but they can line up their voters to make their votes count.
I am not one of those candidates, despite being in goonswarm.
That being said, I'm honestly running to promote idea that the in-game economy is the most important aspect of Eve. I'd like to think I have the same general agenda as the majority of the people here. I'd think that would be something the people here could get behind.
I don't have an effective gimmick, so there won't be any MLM-style campaign. I think my ideas are decent, but I also don't feel any kind of name recognition from anyone not on this board. I can focus my message, but I'm not quite sure where I should be going to get that message out there.
So what I'm saying is, I'm a candidate who's not going to win unless I get some help. Either with ideas or with your advocacy.
What should I be saying differently, now that you've seen my message?
What's important that I missed?
And finally, if anyone can help me with introductions to some of the empire manufacturing and research alliances, I'd love to talk to them.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.27 10:23:00 -
[2]
You have my vote if you can bring "change".
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 10:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail You have my vote if you can bring "change".
The only change I can really promise you is that someone on the CSM will have an understanding on the in game economy, and make that their focus.
And post here a ton.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc. Taurus Quantum Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rule18 on 27/02/2011 11:08:32 I can let you borrow my over-sized banner add :-P
gimmick - vote kalrand,
1. isk never sleeps and neither will he! 2. isk talks and bullsh!t walks 3. he's too big to fail! 4. vote dollar-democracy! (doesn't translate to isk well :-/ )
5. locate other candidates, setup alts and make it appear they've scammed your alts or otherwise been un CSM-ly. negative campaign till New Eden freezes over!
/me done
"If it can be named, it can be hated."
-Rule18 |
Florestan Bronstein
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:12:00 -
[5]
already outlined the following in Signatures:
The central question is to what degree Kalrand (or any other MD candidate) would be able to convince the other CSM members to prioritize economy-related issues over other more "mainstream" topics.
I have no doubt that many of the other CSM candidates have no issue with saying "sure, we'll add your agenda somewhere near the end of your list of requests if you support us here, here and here" but for CSM to be effective it has to concentrate on very few core messages and I have serious doubts that Kalrand will manage to get the points on his agenda in there.
Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot. His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.
In short, I don't think MD's pet proposals are capable of winning a majority and while it is not necessary to convince the majority of voters in order to get one candidate into CSM it is necessary to convince the majority of CSM members to support these proposals in order to get anything done.
If you want to make your votes count, allocate your votes based on mainstream issues which could get a majority of voters and CSM members alike - chances are you won't see much tangible results of having a minority candidate in CSM.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kalrand What's important that I missed?
That it's more about who you are than what you're saying. People don't vote for douchey gasbag losers.
Originally by: Kalrand The only change I can really promise you is that someone on the CSM will have an understanding on the in game economy, and make that their focus.
So who would that be? Surely you jest if you mean yourself...
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
Rule18
Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc. Taurus Quantum Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:26:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rule18 on 27/02/2011 11:26:32
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Kalrand What's important that I missed?
That it's more about who you are than what you're saying. People don't vote for douchey gasbag losers.
Quoted for hypocrisy
"If it can be named, it can be hated."
-Rule18 |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/02/2011 11:24:43
already outlined the following in Signatures:
The central question is to what degree Kalrand (or any other MD candidate) would be able to convince the other CSM members to prioritize economy-related issues over other more "mainstream" topics.
I have no doubt that many of the other CSM candidates have no issue with saying "sure, we'll add your agenda somewhere near the end of your list of requests if you support us here, here and here" but for CSM to be effective it has to concentrate on very few core messages and I have serious doubts that Kalrand will manage to get the points on his agenda in there.
Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot. His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.
In short, I don't think MD's pet proposals are capable of winning a majority and while it is not necessary to convince the majority of voters in order to get one candidate into CSM it is necessary to convince the majority of CSM members to support these proposals in order to get anything done.
If you want to make your votes count, allocate your votes based on mainstream issues which could get a majority of voters and CSM members alike - chances are you won't see much tangible results of having a minority candidate in CSM.
edit: in case this isn't clear enough from the paragraphs above: my suggestion would be that if you want to vote for Kalrand, you should do so based on his kugu, not on his MD, agenda.
I think most of this overestimates the importance of the CSM. CCP will NOT make their decisions based on what a majority of the CSM think. At best the CSM's opinions will be weighed as one, heavily skewed, way of gauging the views of the playerbase as a whole. As such, it doesn't bother me too much that Kal would be aligned with a bunch of 0.0 ideas that I don't particularly support. What I would like is an MD voice at the table. And it's important to realise that that is what the CSM are - voices, not decision makers. Someone sensible who can make compelling arguments is more likely to have some impact than a majority of CSM members who CCP will be well-aware represent only a niche group of players. And the idea of having at least one person on the council who might occassionaly examine the issues from a market perspective and present that perspective to CCP is an appealling one.
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:52:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 27/02/2011 11:53:49
@RAW my basic premise is that CSM can only support a very limited number of proposals effectively and that it needs to speak with one voice in order to be heard by CCP.
The CSM members vote on their meetings which proposals they carry to CCP, they also decide on a prioritization of proposals before meeting with CCP.
If you don't get a majority vote within CSM for your proposal it will remain buried within the minutes of the weekly/biweekly CSM meetings and not be formally passed on to CCP.
To what extent CCP members use these meeting minutes as inspiration for their decisions is of course open to debate - but I am fairly certain that the only somewhat reliable way to get a topic discussed by CCP is to have it passed by a CSM vote and included as a high priority item on the list of suggested topics for the next CSM summit.
edit: wrong character
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:03:00 -
[10]
I support Kal in the measure that someone can be supported. That being said, the problem I see with your platform is that you are a goon.
This kills any independence because I don't think you will cross the floor to oppose them on anything. And since the focus of CSM is seldom market stuff, MD related stuff may not even come up for discussion. And if it did, what would you change?
You need to say concisely what you would actually do, beyond fuzzy stuff like "understand economics". What makes a vote for you not just another vote for the 0.0 powerblocks?
Thats my two cents anyway.
But as someone else put it, its not as if CSM designs the game. At most they bring up stuff to CCP with which is can or not agree (like railguns working as intended in the recent minutes)
Finally you need a platform that captures the imagination for the whole game, and excel and related issues tends not to be it.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Another (more personal) impression is that Kalrand seems to agree in many points with the agenda of the 0.0-backed candidates - this renders the "I will support them on their topics if they support me with my economy-related proposals" argument moot.
His threat to vote against CSM proposals he does personally support just because his "tit for tat" demands have not been met would not be credible. In order to trade votes on CSM proposals you have to appear to make sacrifices - otherwise you don't have anything to trade with.
I do tend to agree with the bulk of what's coming out of the 0.0 candidates. I also have a better understanding of the 0.0 economy than any of the other 0.0 candidates. Most of them have people in their alliances to manage the books, run logistics, and otherwise handle the softer side of being in 0.0.
I'm not going to be threatening to withhold my vote for what would otherwise be a good idea, simply if they ignore my proposals. What I would be able to do is explain why the things they might otherwise ignore because it "doesn't affect them" actually do have a second order impact on the things they care about.
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
in case this isn't clear enough from the paragraphs above: my suggestion would be that if you want to vote for Kalrand, you should do so based on his kugu, not on his MD, agenda.
They are not mutually exclusive; they're two sides of the same coin written for different audiences. The effective objective is still the same.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Goonswarm ...
get lost
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rule18 Quoted for hypocrisy
You mean irony, numbnuts.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tutskii
This kills any independence because I don't think you will cross the floor to oppose them on anything.
What makes a vote for you not just another vote for the 0.0 powerblocks?
I edited these two points in your comment together, since they hit on the same thing.
I'm running for CSM. Isn't that enough?
The Mittani can't come out and ban be from goonswarm for doing that alone, but I'm not even allowed to mention that I'm running on our own forums, or else Bad Things Will Happen to me for violating his orders not to split the vote. Goons are not even supposed to know I'm running, let alone vote for me.
Customarily, there was always a primary within goonswarm to decide on who "our" candidate would be, but then suddenly it was announced that primaries would be scrapped for his "Send Mittani and Vile Rat to Iceland" plan.
Honestly, I'm kind of ****ed I wasn't allowed to run internally, as I'd be better suited to run as a Goon candidate than as an independent candidate who happens to be in Goonswarm while there's an announced plan to "Take over the CSM".
Had we had an internal primary, the Mittani is popular enough that he would have won, but for the second slot I doubt Vile Rat would have. The average goon doesn't know who he is or what he does. That's why when you look back there's always a rather random goon if it was anyone other than Darius Johnson. I mean, who the hell is Helen Highwater? Ran in a primary, lost but made a good case for himself, and then won a slot during the next time around. I don't see why I couldn't do that.
Quote:
You need to say concisely what you would actually do, beyond fuzzy stuff like "understand economics".
I'd be delusional or an outright liar if I thought any *specific* proposal had a snowball's chance in hell of actually being implemented. I'm proposing that people vote for me for my way of looking at the things that will be covered by an NDA and you can't even know about. I'm sure that's not CCP's super secret plan for fixing blasters.
Telling CCP what they need to change doesn't work. Working with CCP on what they are going to change anyway is the way to be effective.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:31:00 -
[15]
On another note, this CSM election feels like an election for president of some elementary school's fourth grade class where one kid is promising "Less homework and more recess!", and I'm standing here going "How about a bake sale once a month to buy new basketballs?".
Who are people going to vote for, and what's more likely to actually work?
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Misty McGinnity
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:43:00 -
[16]
Making a topic in MD asking questions about CSM (lets face it who could care less, personally it sounds like "work" but hey w/e floats your boat.)
all these topics tho, makes me doubt your focus & confidence to make a decision, thus doubt your leadership qualities.
You are a goon. ppl will see you to have the goon agenda. same as your bonds.
Disregard goons,
Acquire creditability.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kalrand on 27/02/2011 12:57:25
Originally by: Misty McGinnity Making a topic in MD asking questions about CSM
That's probably the first thing I'd do. Hopefully I could get someone to sticky it up top.
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
all these topics tho, makes me doubt your focus & confidence to make a decision, thus doubt your leadership qualities.
I'm a believer that a thread should be on a single topic, or sub topic if it's large enough, or changes enough. I've never seen a value in having a 20 page thread that discusses dozens of different things. They're near impossible for people to get up to speed, and very difficult to search.
This allows people to focus on what's relevant now, and go back if the need to and find a page or two on a single topic.
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
You are a goon. ppl will see you to have the goon agenda. same as your bonds.
Are you saying that my candidacy is good for everyone? Much like my bonds?
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
Disregard goons,
Acquire creditability.
You may notice that Avalloc did exactly that. He dropped out of the Goonwaffe corp two weeks ago when he filled to run.
Personally, I thought it was a bit too hypocritical for me.
Edit: Grammer
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:19:00 -
[18]
I'd consider voting for Kalrand, though it depends on who else would be running. I'd definitely not vote for any of the official 0.0 lackeys.
As for campaign strategy, I've heard that bugging missionrunners that CCP will nerf their profit if you don't get elected works
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:33:00 -
[19]
wouldn't be easier to get help from people here if you were talking about what your ideas are as candidate ? you're talking only about general things, saying you will put economy before the rest, but people will vote more easily for clear ideas than for obscure concepts. ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:37:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Bumblefck on 27/02/2011 13:39:20 Take this crap where it belongs FFS - Jita Park/Assembly Hall
? |
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Kadi Azaph
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:41:00 -
[21]
so this is basically goonfleet trying to steal md votes
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kadi Azaph so this is basically goonfleet trying to steal md votes
The MD Elite get secret block votes so get a couple of them onside and you're home and dry.
Joint Venture Conglomerate |
Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:58:00 -
[23]
I kind of feel bad since you're spinning a convincing enough sob story, but you're stuck between a rock and a hard place; you have no natural constituency beyond maybe a few hundred you might get from MD, and even if that was enough to get you in (it almost certainly wouldn't be), most players are probably going to dismiss you (and every other 'unofficial' goon candidate) as an attempt to split non-goon/non-nullsec-bloc votes, in line with the Mittani's stated aim of ensuring "that the Nullsec Bloc seizes control over the CSM."
Sorry, you're f***ed.
And tbh, even if you did have a chance, I think it would be profoundly unhealthy for one alliance to have three representatives on the CSM. Signature removed. |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:58:00 -
[24]
*shrug*
I have no idea what your positions are.
What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 16:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul *shrug*
I have no idea what your positions are.
What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.
Oh I think I have a post like that: here.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
The Mattius
Enigma Technologies
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:03:00 -
[26]
I think the rub for most people here, is there is absolutely no way to tell if this is a genuine vote for the market and economy in Eve, or a back door vote to get another Goon in the CSM.
For that matter, how could anyone be certain that your intentions and vote on the CSM wouldn't start out genuine, but later (under pressure from those above you in Goonswarm), could be manipulated for their 0.0 agenda?
If you can address and win over this argument, i see no reason why MD shouldn't back you.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:13:00 -
[27]
As the only "MD" candidate, there's not really any choice .. if you want your vote to go toward pushing an MD agenda, vote for Kalrand, if you do not, then do not. It's not like you can vote for anyone else in the hope they randomly push MD, at least Kalrand is promising to do it whether he does in the end or not ;)
As for Kalrand's plea for help, tbh you will have to throw some non-MD things in amongst your list and make promises of a Delorean for everyone who votes, because 99% of the EVE population couldn't give a **** if we have a more secure investment model or a way to create futures contracts.
Good luck, hope you get to enjoy an Icelandic holiday sometime soon.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:23:00 -
[28]
The CSM not only raises it's own issues, but also provides an early sounding board from the players perspective. This does provide the ideal opportunity for a economically minded fellow to provide an early response.
I think Eve's biggest Economic problem is that Dr. Gudmundsson is looking at Eve for instances were it's Economics are like RL economics. When what we should be doing is pointing out where it differs. The most obvious flaw in my mind is his view regarding the money supply. There is little financial leverage in Eve, so whenever the economy needs to expand to embrace new content the money supply must be increased; inflation should be controlled not from reducing the supply but supplying more prestige **** to spend that ISK on.
Regarding capturing votes I think are in a catch 22 situation; handicapped by Goon block voting and no endorsement and scepticism from non-Goons because you are a Goon.
Perhaps you need to think and act more like a goon and resort to Goon style guerilla campaign tactics. Get into the other Candidates threads and start slinging some faeces, preferable the bigger the better.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 27/02/2011 17:29:00
Originally by: Kalrand I'm honestly running to promote idea that the in-game economy is the most important aspect of Eve. [..] What's important that I missed?
You missed that focussing on specific problem doesn't resolve the general issue of "CCP communication habits". Those issues have to get addressed first - before any serious work for specific game aspects can succeed at all. Try to team up with Seleene, that's what I'd suggest.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1472414 "One of the key elements in moving the next CSM forward will be continuing to improve on the communication and accountability processes between the players and the developers." - Seleene (Game Designer at CCP for over three years)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1473855 - The "They are lying to you!" Mittani, GoonWaffe
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Zeta Zhul *shrug*
I have no idea what your positions are.
What am I to support if I don't know what you support? A summary, not too detailed, would be very nice of your ideas, positions, concepts, etc. Doesn't have to be a wall of text, but something of a set of bullet points would help.
Oh I think I have a post like that: here.
Ahhh, thank you! I'll read it over.
Perhaps putting the link into your signature for a short time might make it's distribution much wider and easier.
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:50:00 -
[31]
Well, I can give what help I may:
Take a look at Mittani's piece of fluff complete with a friendly picture of him and a dog. That is how politicians do things, if I didn't know of his garbage plan to hand CSM to 0.0, I would probably vote for him.
Yours is a series of impersonal points that are hard to relate to, not particularly relevant to the population at large, and not particularly alluring.
I'd fix that. You said you have done political stuff. Then turn into a politician. US VS them. Populist Rethoric, CCP is lying, etc. It works.
Second, start slinging ****. Mittani supports (or doesn't care about botting) for instance. There is the garbage about making CSM for null, lack of primaries, etc. All of those are valid points and if you are serious in that you are not a part of the goon block as you campaign, they are points you should press.
You should also lose the "We are not supposed to divide the goon vote" garbage. You got ****ed, Vile rat, a random scammer got your seat, or the one that would have been yours. He is getting to go to Iceland, and goon support without running a primary or having to do anything other than promise to give mittens bjs. Where is the outrage? Where is the lovable underdog against the hipocrisy of the forces of evil?
You know politics, politic.
Lastly, mittens "take over CSM" is not gonna do you any favors. There is no getting around the fact that you are running as a Goon on the year when mittens agenda is "Make CSM a tool of the 0.0 blocks"
There, some couch strategizing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:07:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/02/2011 18:07:49 @Above Certainly, if someone wanted to play a game and relax from the sh!t of RL politics and logs in EvE, he's for a nasty surprise. How a faithful and realistic representation of RL shoddiness that EvE is.
...and they keep telling me I should not try finding connections between RL finance and EvE's... - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/02/2011 18:07:49 @Above Certainly, if someone wanted to play a game and relax from the sh!t of RL politics and logs in EvE, he's for a nasty surprise. How a faithful and realistic representation of RL shoddiness that EvE is.
...and they keep telling me I should not try finding connections between RL finance and EvE's...
The thing is that humans are the same creature IRL and in the game. And there are certain things humans find alluring and convincing, and things they do not. That is true whether you are here or IRL.
In the end it comes down to pictures of babies, puppies, fluffy sweaters and how your opponent is the devil himself. There is, through history, little getting around that
By the way, I have read your real life finance and Eve thread, and I like it.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:22:00 -
[34]
You can't have a campaign without a campaign team. First thing to do is to convince interns to work for you. Second thing is to appeal to some vested interests who can back you with finance and influence. Third thing is to get a legend or back-story about yourself. Fourth, get some more realistic policies that fit in with the platform of other power blocks while having enough difference to stand out. And finally, get some controversy going - hit a nerve somewhere.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal And finally, get some controversy going - hit a nerve somewhere.
I could teach people about how to do this - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.27 19:57:00 -
[36]
You know the dog in Mittens's picture? He kicks that puppy.
You wouldn't vote for a puppykicker, now would you?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.27 20:57:00 -
[37]
Most of the other candidates are chasing the 0.0 voting block. None are targeting the high-sec, industrialist, missions voting blocks which took somebody into second place last time.
The other candidates plan for the "0.0 alliances to take over the CSM" is setting themselves up against pretty much everbody else in Eve. That will hand a seat to anybody who can/will effectively call them out on that.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.27 21:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
None are targeting the high-sec, industrialist, missions voting blocks which took somebody into second place last time.
Sadly, for every character in 0.0 space there is a high-sec, industrialist, mission running alt.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2011.02.27 22:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari The other candidates plan for the "0.0 alliances to take over the CSM" is setting themselves up against pretty much everbody else in Eve. That will hand a seat to anybody who can/will effectively call them out on that.
That'd be very hard for Kalrand to do, considering his background.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.27 23:21:00 -
[40]
There is undoubtedly a large constituency that Kalrand could appeal to as his base - not just for votes, but for organisation and financing.
There's little point in Kalrand defining his position as contra the zero-sec position - he won't get those votes anyway, and it will just reduce his tactical influence if he does get into the CSM.
The important thing is that there is a clear hi-sec economically-oriented constituency that needs representing and that can contribute not just votes, but also organisation and campaign work.
The question is whetherthe candidate and his policies will be sufficient to mobilise what is potentially a quite large vote.
To develop my point earlier, I think that some form of party politics will always be inevitable in a parliamentary system, as proved by the triumph of party machinery in all elected houses since the 19th Century. I'm willing to help you Kalrand, in performing some of the duties necessary for you to run for office.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.27 23:26:00 -
[41]
My Four accounts won't be voting for you.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.28 00:08:00 -
[42]
There is probably not more than 100-200 votes to gather from the readers of this forum. To get elected I'd say your best bet is to present yourself as the guy who is going to help random joe. That is the biggest pool of potential voters you just have to get them to actually vote. Look at the programme of the 'Take Care' party. It's tried and tested!
Some random ideas:
- talk about how suicide ganking is too easy and has no risk at all and how you're going to change it - complain how scamming is rampant and needs to be penalized - stress how lowsec needs more sentry guns, npc patrols to protect the innocents and how people with negative security standing shouldn't be allowed to dock at npc stations - insinuate at all times that not participating in ship combat makes you a better human - promise that lvl4 missions aren't going to be moved to lowsec as long as you are on the csm - ask for mothership bpcs(?) to drop in hisec incursions - make strong use of words like "griefing", "gankers", "gankbears" and most importantly "player killing" - incorporate some incarna stuff too people dig that - talk about how miners make and break eve and how the gankers would be boned without them
It's also vital that you promise a lot. It doesn't matter that you don't really get to decide anything. People prefer to vote for people with strong agendas. Possibly that would be in conflict with your actual opinions but that is politics.
I'm pretty damn sure this is the ticket to the csm. It has worked in the past just like that. You would have to drop your alliance though as the type of player you're going for has an inexplicable yet deeply rooted hate for anything "goon".
As for getting voted in purely based on a reasonable low-key programme and a passion for the game: good luck with that.
--
Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.28 00:14:00 -
[43]
All you have to do is promise everything then deliver nothing. Thats how politics work!
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.28 00:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Myra2007 There is probably not more than 100-200 votes to gather from the readers of this forum. To get elected I'd say your best bet is to present yourself as the guy who is going to help random joe. That is the biggest pool of potential voters you just have to get them to actually vote. Look at the programme of the 'Take Care' party. It's tried and tested!
Some random ideas:
- talk about how suicide ganking is too easy and has no risk at all and how you're going to change it - complain how scamming is rampant and needs to be penalized - stress how lowsec needs more sentry guns, npc patrols to protect the innocents and how people with negative security standing shouldn't be allowed to dock at npc stations - insinuate at all times that not participating in ship combat makes you a better human - promise that lvl4 missions aren't going to be moved to lowsec as long as you are on the csm - ask for mothership bpcs(?) to drop in hisec incursions - make strong use of words like "griefing", "gankers", "gankbears" and most importantly "player killing" - incorporate some incarna stuff too people dig that - talk about how miners make and break eve and how the gankers would be boned without them
It's also vital that you promise a lot. It doesn't matter that you don't really get to decide anything. People prefer to vote for people with strong agendas. Possibly that would be in conflict with your actual opinions but that is politics.
I'm pretty damn sure this is the ticket to the csm. It has worked in the past just like that. You would have to drop your alliance though as the type of player you're going for has an inexplicable yet deeply rooted hate for anything "goon".
As for getting voted in purely based on a reasonable low-key programme and a passion for the game: good luck with that.
I think its actually quite easy to explain, come to think of it.
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.02.28 01:58:00 -
[45]
you can go to iceland with the help of my AX!
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.28 16:00:00 -
[46]
The conclusion I've come to is that I have no chance of winning while I'm in goonswarm.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.02.28 17:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kalrand The conclusion I've come to is that I have no chance of winning while I'm in goonswarm.
I give it a chance, put some of the tips given into practice, don't forget it's not just about winning votes in your favour it's also about whether the other asshats can get votes too. Some of them may say something stupid killing their chances, have some scam found out about them, might get hit by a bus before election, there might be ten thousand votes from "mr random doesn't read forums just reads the CSM page with the brief summaries on it" etc. .. last time I voted in the csm election I simply voted with all my accounts on the guy that had the highest letter count in his proposal, regardless of what it said :D
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Durin Sarga
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Posted - 2011.02.28 18:22:00 -
[48]
So this would be a good time to ask:
Is Kalrand the only MD person to be running for CSM?
If so, then it does stand to reason that he is the only person in MD that actually wants to do something proactive about all the groaning and moaning going on around here. For example, Akita T et. al. have been complaining for a year about moon mineral balancing and restructuring. This is a clear 0.0 agenda item that they don't want mentioned. Why? Because they love it.
Kalrand has said in his points that he will try to get that addressed. He makes a solid point that it is not up to the CSM to decide the solution. It is up to the CSM to spark the fire, and then help direct the resulting blaze. Sometimes they even have to help fan the flames.
Unless anyone else around here is stepping up, then Kalrand is (by default) the only choice for MD. Now, you may not like that fact. You may decide that MD doesn't need a dedicated voice, and thus vote for someone else, but the logic stands.
Kalrand, you have my vote, and my pledge to try and get the rest of my alliance (however small we may be in the grand scheme of things) on board with your candidacy. If I pull it off, that's about 100 votes. Good luck sir.
Side note: If anyone else here is actually standing up for the economy of EVE I will do the same thing for them. Because I do believe it is an area which needs serious attention.
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Grimhowl
Heroes of NewEden
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kalrand The conclusion I've come to is that I have no chance of winning while I'm in goonswarm.
Even if you don't make it this time around, you could at least get your name out there so that next time around you've got a leg up. That said, don't play for second place. In it to win it or not at all. - I don't want the world, I just want your half. |
Rorriana
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kalrand The conclusion I've come to is that I have no chance of winning while I'm in goonswarm.
I don't think that is the case; quite frankly I'd vote for someone in Goonswarm over someone in some no-name corp I've never heard of, because I know at least that you have played the game, and have some exposure to a broad range of experiences. I'd rather have you than a random mouth-breather who has only ever seen the game in high-sec through the window ports of his Drake/Raven.
The fact that you are active on MD will also net you votes as many people who lurk the MD forums will be given the opportunity to vote and only recognize your name from the list that is presented.
You've got 1-3 votes from me, depending on what accounts are up at the time; also probably a few from my more easily influenced friends who could generally give a crap less about the CSM.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:31:00 -
[51]
That wasn't a defeatist statement, at this point I've been doing the math, and it would appear that I have a decent shot at being a high-level alternate, and knowing how long the term is, makes it likely that I'll end up on the CSM eventually anyway.
I really think there's only about three seats up for grabs to the "general public", and I think I'll be polling well, just not top three.
Not that I'm not doing everything in my ability to change that, I am. Dropping goonswarm is an idea, so are some ~other things~ that I'm doing.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:50:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Cheque Please on 28/02/2011 20:51:13 How many people not seriously entrenched in 0.0 pay attention to CSM politics? I can't imagine the majority of high-sec, non-forum readers caring one way or another, certainly not enough to notice that you dropped your Goonswarm tag. To them, it's probably just a list of unrecognizable names.
I will vote for you for whatever its worth. You might be able to get in on the 50 or so MD votes (although Mittani def. has you beat with a larger and more dedicated base)
--- RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kalrand That wasn't a defeatist statement, at this point I've been doing the math, and it would appear that I have a decent shot at being a high-level alternate, and knowing how long the term is, makes it likely that I'll end up on the CSM eventually anyway.
I really think there's only about three seats up for grabs to the "general public", and I think I'll be polling well, just not top three.
Not that I'm not doing everything in my ability to change that, I am. Dropping goonswarm is an idea, so are some ~other things~ that I'm doing.
I am not sure how much dropping GS would help that much unless there is no doubt that its not just a ploy to hand mittens even more control over the CSM and hand more seats to GS.
This would be my primary objection to you. I think you are a swell dude, but its hard to trust what anyone with the Goon tag does, due to precedent. What stops you from simply rejoining after the election and voting whatever way Mittens wants you to anyway (if there is coercion)?. And if there is no coercion and you agree with the 0.0 csm control bs, then what is the difference between voting for you or them?
From where I stand it would seem that the 0.0 block is pushing a very different view of the game than what I would like to support for instance. Most of the game does not take place on 0.0, and the positions against "shinies" "non pvp/pve content" and "change" in general give me quite a bit of pause. (those positions are either stated or implied, here or in say kugutsu or scrapheap).
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:58:00 -
[54]
A preview of my "official" campaign statement:
Vote KALRAND for CSM
The reason you don't know who I am is that I've had much better things to spend my time on than making funny websites or gimmicky new characters just to try to convince the average EvE player that I can grasp the second and third order effects of changes made in a complex system. I can, and that's actually what I do for a living when I'm not playing EvE.
I came up with a list of **** that the average player would like. (here) Either because they're something that should actually happen (Example: Moon goo rebalancing) or because the average player would ****ing love it (a T2 Orca). Doing these things would be good for the game, either to fix broken **** or Give People What They Want.
But CCP really doesn't give two flying ****s about ideas the CSM comes to the table with. They really only care about their own ideas. I'm sure they've got all kinds of stupid **** they want to put in (Incarna! Dust 514! Sparkle Vampires in Space!), that really needs to be shot down with a better reason than "**** you that's stupid.".
I'm that guy. Vote for me. Fly Kalrand to Iceland.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:02:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tutskii What stops you from simply rejoining after the election and voting whatever way Mittens wants you to anyway (if there is coercion)?. And if there is no coercion and you agree with the 0.0 csm control bs, then what is the difference between voting for you or them?
1) Me leaving would be entirely window dressing for my campaign. I would be rejoining with the Kalrand character once it's over. I just don't want to turn off the "casual" empire person who doesn't know me anymore more than my normal likable personality would.
2) I don't take coercion very well. I mean, without you knowing how bullheaded and stubborn I am in the real word, there's really no way to explain that here. It's something I dismiss as an issue out of hand, and haven't come up with an effective way to express it in game. I guess you'd just have to trust me.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:03:00 -
[56]
Kalrand, you are doing it wrong
Requoting myself:
"Have your photo taken/photoshop yourself into pictures with a: 1) fireman, 2) policeman, 3) gaggle of kids + orphanage, and 4) the American flag w/ optiional bookshelves in the background. Preferably do a thumbs up in all of them." --- RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:07:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cheque Please Kalrand, you are doing it wrong
Requoting myself:
"Have your photo taken/photoshop yourself into pictures with a: 1) fireman, 2) policeman, 3) gaggle of kids + orphanage, and 4) not the American flag w/ optiional bookshelves in the background. Preferably do a thumbs up in all of them."
A lot of the EVE playerbase is European and the US may not be the most popular country to flag with at this time (or maybe at any, who knows).
I recommend pets/kittens or hot women.
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Cheque Please on 28/02/2011 21:10:35
Originally by: Tutskii
Originally by: Cheque Please Kalrand, you are doing it wrong
Requoting myself:
"Have your photo taken/photoshop yourself into pictures with a: 1) fireman, 2) policeman, 3) gaggle of kids + orphanage, and 4) not the American flag w/ optiional bookshelves in the background. Preferably do a thumbs up in all of them."
A lot of the EVE playerbase is European and the US may not be the most popular country to flag with at this time (or maybe at any, who knows).
I recommend pets/kittens or hot women.
Hot women + American flag bikini w/ a kitten in the background? Brillant --- RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Grimhowl
Heroes of NewEden
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:14:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Grimhowl on 28/02/2011 21:15:22
Originally by: Cheque Please
Hot women + American flag bikini w/ a kitten in the background? Brillant
What if people get confused and vote for the kitten? The sort of people this would appeal to may be less than... of clear and present mind. That said... I would add a bazooka and rambo costume with cgi muscles. - I don't want the world, I just want your half. |
Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:16:00 -
[60]
Contributing to campaign. Photoshop some kittens, America **** yea, and insert Kal and we are in business.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2011.02.28 22:49:00 -
[61]
Moved from Market Discussion.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.03.01 00:17:00 -
[62]
Enjoy the quiet, slow death of your thread in Jita Park
? |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 00:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Bumblefck Enjoy the quiet, slow death of your thread in Jita Park
lol and besides MD should support an MD Elite: Manalapan
------ Support Manalapan for CSM!
Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger
Manalapan Campaign |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.01 05:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Manalapan
Originally by: Bumblefck Enjoy the quiet, slow death of your thread in Jita Park
lol and besides MD should support an MD Elite: Manalapan
The only time you post in MD is when you're running for CSM.
So once a year, like clockwork.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
OhThis GuyAgain
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Posted - 2011.03.01 13:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kalrand
The Mittani can't come out and ban be from goonswarm for doing that alone, but I'm not even allowed to mention that I'm running on our own forums, or else Bad Things Will Happen to me for violating his orders not to split the vote. Goons are not even supposed to know I'm running, let alone vote for me.
Customarily, there was always a primary within goonswarm to decide on who "our" candidate would be, but then suddenly it was announced that primaries would be scrapped for his "Send Mittani and Vile Rat to Iceland" plan.
Honestly, I'm kind of ****ed I wasn't allowed to run internally, as I'd be better suited to run as a Goon candidate than as an independent candidate who happens to be in Goonswarm while there's an announced plan to "Take over the CSM".
Trying to figure this out. Clearly Goons can see your threads here. Aren't the CEOs of Goon just kind of letting you do your thing?
Also, let's say you win and are coupled with the other Goon candidates... will you continue your obstinacy (did I use that word correctly) and voice your own opinion, even if it does conflict with what the other Goons want? |
Zelda Wei
Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.03.01 13:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Manalapan
Originally by: Bumblefck Enjoy the quiet, slow death of your thread in Jita Park
lol and besides MD should support an MD Elite: Manalapan
Rule 0: There is no cabal. Rule 1: You do not talk about the cabal.
Thus you are not a member of the MD Elite.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.01 16:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain
Trying to figure this out. Clearly Goons can see your threads here. Aren't the CEOs of Goon just kind of letting you do your thing?
On this board, yes. Please remember that the goons have their own forum.
Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain
Also, let's say you win and are coupled with the other Goon candidates... will you continue your obstinacy (did I use that word correctly) and voice your own opinion, even if it does conflict with what the other Goons want?
Obstinate, stubborn, and independent are good ways to describe me, and especially my posts.
If anything, my goal is to bring an economics into the discussion to all of the CSM proposals and meetings. That's not limited to things that are purely economics, but includes any discussion on any topic related to the game. In that way, its not a matter of being for or against any particular desires that the 0.0 block may have, but a matter of changing the frame of discussion when the CSM debates and presents those issues.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.02 20:49:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kalrand its not a matter of being for or against any particular desires that the 0.0 block may have, but a matter of changing the frame of discussion when the CSM debates and presents those issues.
So, you don't deny that you will likely be pushing your 0.0 blocks agenda? You also presume that no other candidate knows anything about economics. ------ Support Manalapan for CSM!
Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger
Manalapan Campaign |
Dawn Scott
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Posted - 2011.03.02 20:52:00 -
[69]
Kalrand for President - or whatever.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.02 21:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Manalapan So, you don't deny that you will likely be pushing your 0.0 blocks agenda? You also presume that no other candidate knows anything about economics.
I didn't deny anything. I'm also bad at answering questions posed with double negatives.
I'm not part of the 0.0 plot to take over the CSM. I'm part of the Kalrand Thinks The Economy Should Be Paid Attention To plot to take over the CSM.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
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OhThis GuyAgain
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Posted - 2011.03.02 21:25:00 -
[71]
Can you give us an example of how you would deal with CCP from an economical perspective? Specifically, suppose that this discussion about implementing fish tanks in Eve was actually taking place in Iceland (or in the private forums) between a CCP serious about implementing the idea and the CSM. What would be your opinion, how would you react, and how would you work with CCP as the idea was being brought to fruition? |
Krythas
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Posted - 2011.03.03 14:23:00 -
[72]
I for one am interested in how the internet goldfish fit into the market model.
I personally would like to know how much a clown fish will go for.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.03 22:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain Can you give us an example of how you would deal with CCP from an economical perspective? Specifically, suppose that this discussion about implementing fish tanks in Eve was actually taking place in Iceland (or in the private forums) between a CCP serious about implementing the idea and the CSM. What would be your opinion, how would you react, and how would you work with CCP as the idea was being brought to fruition?
In all honesty, crap like fishtanks in your captain's quarters seems like perfect stuff for CCP to focus their efforts on micro-plex in game purchases. They've made it clear that they intend to start doing those things, and something innocuous like this might be the right outlet.
It's the perfect example of something that has no effect on the game economy, won't change a player's performance, and People Might Like. Why not? Hopefully they don't need to jam five developers on it for months at a time.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
OhThis GuyAgain
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Posted - 2011.03.03 22:15:00 -
[74]
You seem to be implying that such a feature, if implemented, would have to be entirely isolated from in-game items of worth, such as lootable fish upgrades and items that could be bought and sold for ISK.
Please elaborate or clarify your stance on this issue. |
Grimhowl
Heroes of NewEden
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Posted - 2011.03.03 22:31:00 -
[75]
Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain You seem to be implying that such a feature, if implemented, would have to be entirely isolated from in-game items of worth, such as lootable fish upgrades and items that could be bought and sold for ISK.
Please elaborate or clarify your stance on this issue.
Not only is this not implied, but actually the opposite of the implications pertaining to what he suggested. Plex aren't separate from the in-game economy. Why would "micro-plex" items be? The use of that phrase says it all. </readingcomprehension> - I don't want the world, I just want your half. |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.03 22:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Kalrand on 03/03/2011 22:36:57
Originally by: OhThis GuyAgain You seem to be implying that such a feature, if implemented, would have to be entirely isolated from in-game items of worth, such as lootable fish upgrades and items that could be bought and sold for ISK.
Please elaborate or clarify your stance on this issue.
I'm making the broad assumption that the decorations in your captains quarters don't give you some kind of a buff while piloting your ship. Lootable fish upgrades seems quite silly, but could replace the stupid useless loot that drops on some missions now.
Being tradeable for isk itself isn't a problem, being a substitute good for something already in the game would be. Anything that can be bough or sold using Plex or whatever mechanic CCP comes up with to separate people from the contents of their wallet should have no effect on their abilities in game when it comes to their interaction with the large game.
If people want to log in to stare at a fish tank, then good for them.
Vote KALRAND for CSM! |
Cassina Lemour
Minmatar Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.05 16:46:00 -
[77]
Could contain mini-games like fishing in Lord of the Rings, where the achievements are purely vanity related but require rare quest items to craft the best T3 tanks. :)
You could then invite others to your private quarters for some interactive role playing instead of a boring old private chat channel.
If they add other vanity stuff to incarna it might turn out to be just what Eve needs to get all those wives and girlfriends out there playing.
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Two Shots
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.05 18:33:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
None are targeting the high-sec, industrialist, missions voting blocks which took somebody into second place last time.
Sadly, for every character in 0.0 space there is a high-sec, industrialist, mission running alt.
I personally have my main account, an account with a market trader and a mission runner on it, an account with a CEO alt for a high-sec mining corporation and a couple more market alts, and three other acounts full of high-sec Industry and Planetary Interaction alts. I don't see how it's sad; it's an effective use of my in-game money to pay for accounts full of characters that make me more in-game money. What's sad for you is that it means my six votes for Mittens will be worth more than your one vote for whomever.
Two Shots Goonwaffe |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.03.05 20:36:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Two Shots
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
None are targeting the high-sec, industrialist, missions voting blocks which took somebody into second place last time.
Sadly, for every character in 0.0 space there is a high-sec, industrialist, mission running alt.
I personally have my main account, an account with a market trader and a mission runner on it, an account with a CEO alt for a high-sec mining corporation and a couple more market alts, and three other acounts full of high-sec Industry and Planetary Interaction alts. I don't see how it's sad; it's an effective use of my in-game money to pay for accounts full of characters that make me more in-game money. What's sad for you is that it means my six votes for Mittens will be worth more than your one vote for whomever.
Hmmm ... do you still have that ridiculous number of accounts for your invention operation Breaker?
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