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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.02.28 16:14:00 -
[31]
CCP hasnt even allowed to rename my sole supercarrier character with absolutely no reputation, which spent months of training on the same station, moved immediately after char creation there and never undocked again, logging in only for switching skills and logging off again then. CCP rejected my petition about renaming the char due to "reputation issues" and simply ignored all arguments thrown into the discussion, sticking to the sad "reputation" thing :-/
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Rage MorbidCloud
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Posted - 2011.02.28 16:37:00 -
[32]
I say yes but with only when you buy and transfer a new character to your new account. What is the point of buying a new character if you can not customize its apperance and its name to your liking. they say "reinvent yourself" How am i suppose to reinvent myself if i can not do what i want with my new purchased character. Its like buying a suite from salvation army but i can not dry clean it...
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.02.28 16:53:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Selinate on 28/02/2011 16:53:49
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Selinate I think they should be allowed when buying a character.
Too easily abused.
How? Someone buys their own character and then renames it? Wow, that would so abusive. It's not like the former name couldn't be placed in the history or anything like that, or the fact that character purchases are already heavily monitored by CCP.
No, it would be fine.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.28 17:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 28/02/2011 16:53:49
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Selinate I think they should be allowed when buying a character.
Too easily abused.
How? Someone buys their own character and then renames it? Wow, that would so abusive. It's not like the former name couldn't be placed in the history or anything like that, or the fact that character purchases are already heavily monitored by CCP.
No, it would be fine.
You stated the only time you would allow this idea, is after a char sale. You cannot limit it to that situation, because people would use it and abuse it.
1. Family member creates new account at their address. 2. 'Sell' char to family account with a private sale thread. (you probably wouldn't need to start a thread.) 3. Family member requests name change under the 'Only after a sale' petition. 4. Name gets changed. 5. ..... 6. profit.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.02.28 17:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 28/02/2011 16:53:49
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Selinate I think they should be allowed when buying a character.
Too easily abused.
How? Someone buys their own character and then renames it? Wow, that would so abusive. It's not like the former name couldn't be placed in the history or anything like that, or the fact that character purchases are already heavily monitored by CCP.
No, it would be fine.
You stated the only time you would allow this idea, is after a char sale. You cannot limit it to that situation, because people would use it and abuse it.
1. Family member creates new account at their address. 2. 'Sell' char to family account with a private sale thread. (you probably wouldn't need to start a thread.) 3. Family member requests name change under the 'Only after a sale' petition. 4. Name gets changed. 5. ..... 6. profit.
Or more succinctly, and using y own experience as an example:
The only way you could really do this would be as part of a transfer of a character from one account to another (assuming it's allowed).
So I just pay to move my own character to one of my other accounts (which I have done in the past, to free up slots, or allow for more training) and change the name on the way.
So now you can bypass the system, and use it in a way that it was not meant for (under your argument). Thus Mag's argument is perfectly applicable. People would use this method to end run around the "you must keep your name" standard CCP has already put in place. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Or more succinctly, and using y own experience as an example:
The only way you could really do this would be as part of a transfer of a character from one account to another (assuming it's allowed).
So I just pay to move my own character to one of my other accounts (which I have done in the past, to free up slots, or allow for more training) and change the name on the way.
So now you can bypass the system, and use it in a way that it was not meant for (under your argument). Thus Mag's argument is perfectly applicable. People would use this method to end run around the "you must keep your name" standard CCP has already put in place.
@ De'Veldrin: How is this different from people just selling off a character and moving to a new one? Some people say of the paper trail is there.. It isn't.. CCP has no control over someone editing all their forum posts in a sale. Allowing name change runs into a philosophical argument rather than a practical one completely diffusing the point. If you want to pay for multiple transfers and changes you should be able to. The proposed history on name changes would always be there from the first account the character was created on.
Originally by: Jint Hikaru
Originally by: SXmasteraccount You failed to read the entire thread. Please reread it and post an actual argument besides "No."
I've already presented a fair and ample idea alas the point of the thread to always have the character's name attached to the character thus following and actually complimenting CCP Zymurgist's post.
I did read the thread, and all I saw was people proposing ways which may make the coding work, despite having no idea how CCP run and manage their coding and having listings of old names in places like corp history.
All this to change something that IMHO had no business being changed.
I'm not going to bother typing out why it does not need changing, De'Veldrin explained that very well a couple of posts above this one.
For all your database searches and listings of old names like corp history, it just wont work. Everytime I meet someone in game I dont want to have to search to see if they have old names that I recognise.
If someone has done something so bad to me in game, that I remember their name.... from that point on I dont want to have to look at the name history of EVERYONE I meet in case they are that person with a namechange.
@Jint Hikaru: That is the entire point of this forum area... To propose ideas and speculate. You are not going to bother why it doesn't??? Yet you just did. "If someone has done something so bad to me in game, that I remember their name.... from that point on I dont want to have to look at the name history of EVERYONE I meet in case they are that person with a namechange."
Thank you, that is all I was looking for you to post. (Not sarcastic trolling) Okay, it's clear you don't want to have to examine everyone in detail. But don't you already do that when operating in low security zones? Check if they are pirates or killers? I know I do and it isn't like this individual is going to hide he is a pirate with low sec rating, ship type, and employment history if you even go that far.
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SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:55:00 -
[37]
Edited by: SXmasteraccount on 28/02/2011 19:56:47 If people reading this thread can get over these few facts;
- The proposed Name Change system will not erase past names thus not erase past reputations.
- Every game mechanic in EvE is abused by players.
The Proposal in clear terms is that; Name Changes are implemented so individuals can change their name, but the reputation and past deeds done by the character are kept as the past name is listed in the character's history. (This history being unchangeable)
What do you have against the proposal? What do you have FOR the proposal?
I'm not seeing why other than "CCP has policy against it." Obviously if I'm proposing an idea against the policy the intent is to change that policy or have it adjusted so that it can allow for the proposal and still meet CCP's criteria for their game.
From what I know and your opinions stress, now to the 2nd page, is that the policy is there to prevent a thief from losing his/her reputation as a thief. (Thief being an example) I'm not suggesting a change to that policy so people can abuse the system as stated previously. I'm proposing the policy be altered so that names CAN be changed without losing the character's reputation.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 03:55:00 -
[38]
CCP, you're losing out on making our espionage characters reusable. We want to steal trillions with impunity..
Please let us hide behind a new name... (sic) |
SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.03.01 04:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole CCP, you're losing out on making our espionage characters reusable. We want to steal trillions with impunity..
Please let us hide behind a new name... (sic)
Thanks for the bump forum troll. Next time try reading.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.01 06:13:00 -
[40]
Notions that its a bad idea
1. Is it 'Goonswarmable'? 2. Is it Monopolizable? 3. Is it accessable? Everyone or Elite Few? 4. Is it benifitable? To everyone or Elite Few? 5. Is it benifitable to people who are rich in real life and would spend real capitol to get an advantage over the casual player? 6. Is it able to be used to escape concenquences? Entirely? 7. Will people decry and overdemand the removal of the fair measures in place to prevent abuse 8. Is Idea a Counter to existing rules 9. Does Idea effect everyone? 10. Is the Idea Abusable in unforseen ways? Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
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Delta Vitra
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Posted - 2011.03.01 09:57:00 -
[41]
This thread has grown.
I'm here to place my support for the idea.If characters/toons could be traded, then I should be able to get my name change. Hell, I can even rip the portrait of my toon off to place on my other toon.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2011.03.01 12:32:00 -
[42]
Again, op, by having the name change history, you are not solving anything, you are only adding to confusion.
By having the name change history, you make it that much easier for someone to say "oh, no, lol, I bought this character on the forums". By supplying your API, showing characters previously unseen (hint: on the crime and punishment forum you will often find people listing all characters for an account that were made visible via the limited API, so that future API checkers can see if it's still the same account and thus the same person), those people checking your 'new character name' and your api will see that the character has seemingly in fact been moved to an account entirely unrelated to your other account(s), which serves to better hide your identity.
Without a name change, the element of transparency is improved. People cannot claim they bought the character and back it up with two different characters on the new account or a name change history attributable to an after-sale-only transaction.
If people want to have a clean slate with which to invade other peoples' corps/alliances, they should be paying and taking the time to build up that character, not reusing an already known 'criminal'.
Why do you think, in the real world, that name changes are such an insanely lengthy, costly and potentially impossible to perform service? Clearly, if the person has even undergone a sex change and extensive cosmetic surgery, at face value, they're entirely different people with the change in name, right?
Other attributable factors stick to your character. Mannerisms. Behaviour. Tendency to join particular groups of people or corporations/alliances, or things you're most likely to do with them to get what you want.
If you're buying a character you're buying it for its skills. If you're buying a character for its name, create your own new character with the name you want.
The only reason people might want these name changes is because they aren't happy with their current name (too bad), or they want to try and make it less obvious who they really are for infiltration purposes, simple. When you see a new name and face in local, you do not automatically see an entire name change history, you do not see an entire corp history, you don't even see what corp someone is in; by changing someone's name, they can, in a matter of a day, suddenly appear as someone entirely different until someone investigates them.
By changing their name, they create a double, triple, quadruple etc database search string in order to see if a character name has previously been used by any characters; an entirely new results screen would need to come up in order to show the first name with its second, third and fourth successive changes, so that it's easier to see where a character "has come from". When someone else happens to choose exactly the same name as one someone changed from, things only end up getting even more confusing; is the one that changed their name the original, or is the one that doesn't have the name change the original? Does anyone remember how old the character was? What was their prior corp history? Why am I being persecuted by my peers for choosing the name El'Tar (example)?
A full name change causes too many potential issues, both in terms of player interactions and in terms of how it would affect the game's code/database. A name history field does not solve any of this whatsoever. Besides all of this, you just might be reading my signature. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.03.01 12:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: AgonyTerrorNinja By changing their name, they create a double, triple, quadruple etc database search string in order to see if a character name has previously been used by any characters;
Not only that, but just the possibility that anyone you meet in game may have had previous names will increase the searches to the database a huge amount.
Even if someone hadn't changed their name, you would still want to look and check when you meet them. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.01 13:48:00 -
[44]
Allaince Recruiting Rules
'Anyone who has a name change history will not be allowed into the allaince. Period. We simple dont have time to deal with you.' Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.03.01 14:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nova Fox Allaince Recruiting Rules
'Anyone who has a name change history will not be allowed into the allaince. Period. We simple dont have time to deal with you.'
I could foresee that becoming all too common. Corp thieves are rampant enough as it is without a stealth boost. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Sub Prime
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Posted - 2011.03.01 17:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jint Hikaru
Originally by: AgonyTerrorNinja By changing their name, they create a double, triple, quadruple etc database search string in order to see if a character name has previously been used by any characters;
Not only that, but just the possibility that anyone you meet in game may have had previous names will increase the searches to the database a huge amount.
Even if someone hadn't changed their name, you would still want to look and check when you meet them.
OK - a few issues to resolve here:
Having a 'Character History' Table with the following fields: ch_Id - Unique identifier ch_char_Id - Id of character record ch_Name - Char Name (Again unique (among Character Names and Previous Character Names)) ch_Change_Date - Date of Change to this name
For the technical naye sayers, it's not that complicated, easily to index and wouldn't create excessive db performance issues. You create loads more lag by refreshing this page!!!
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2011.03.01 17:20:00 -
[47]
Sub, have you ever opened someone's corp history where they have more than 10-15 entries on it?
Now imagine that every time you perform a people&places search or auto-link, you're essentially having to check 2x or more the information in order to find the name(s) you're looking for.
If the average player has 1.5 words in their name and there are over 350k active accounts, with 1.5x characters per account, ignoring the inactive accounts, you're looking at almost 800k words that need to be searched for the string you entered.
If searching for character names includes searching 'deep' in order to check those with changed names as well so that those looking for a friend who's changed their character name can still find them, you're looking at easily doubling the amount of text that has to be searched each time, which slows things down for the average player and potentially adds load to the database calls unnecessarily.
It's the same reason we have a delay on being able to perform directional scans, contract searches or similar updates.
Technical issues aside, that still doesn't address the issues that arise in terms of how this affects players' interactions. Besides all of this, you just might be reading my signature. |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:34:00 -
[48]
Character name doesnt end and start at the name, there is a data base impact as well a characters name is a massive foot print becuase there are names medals and items that have the characters name on it.
Either way "We will not accept any players who've have a name change history, you are not worth the effort." will result in a divide in those who never had changed thier name to those who have had the same name. A level of this Stigma already exists, ever seen a player who cant seem to stay in the same corp for even a week? This can easily translate over. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nova Fox ever seen a player who cant seem to stay in the same corp for even a week? This can easily translate over.
As a CEO my policy was not to accept anyone who couldn't commit to a corp for more than a week (with obvious exceptions, such as people using a known jump clone service). --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:53:00 -
[50]
Completely against this idea and here is why:
2 years from now, I will use a locator agent on "SXmasteraccount" because I will be in a mood to mess with that character. If your idea is implemented, I might encounter something like "character does not exist you fool". Convince me first of why should I keep track of anything else than a character's EXACT name for future purposes.
And if you fail reading sarcasm, here is a more friendly example: I just remembered about a friend I knew in a corp a long time ago, but since he was able to change his name for whatever reason, I will never be able to check if he is still around, even if we both show up on the same grid.
I took a long while to figure out the names of my characters and made sure they were going to be still awesome in 5 years. If I ever buy a character, you can bet that a character's name will be a factor when considering the price.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:30:00 -
[51]
A year after the idea is implimented
"Dear CCP you are losing customers! Get rid of character name history or make list private!" Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
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Sub Prime
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Sub, have you ever opened someone's corp history where they have more than 10-15 entries on it?
Now imagine that every time you perform a people&places search or auto-link, you're essentially having to check 2x or more the information in order to find the name(s) you're looking for.
If the average player has 1.5 words in their name and there are over 350k active accounts, with 1.5x characters per account, ignoring the inactive accounts, you're looking at almost 800k words that need to be searched for the string you entered.
If searching for character names includes searching 'deep' in order to check those with changed names as well so that those looking for a friend who's changed their character name can still find them, you're looking at easily doubling the amount of text that has to be searched each time, which slows things down for the average player and potentially adds load to the database calls unnecessarily.
It's the same reason we have a delay on being able to perform directional scans, contract searches or similar updates.
Technical issues aside, that still doesn't address the issues that arise in terms of how this affects players' interactions.
1. The corp history search actually involves at least 1 extra table (character, corpmembership & corp). The old name search would just involve character & oldcharactername tables. You'd be surprised how quick this is when this information is held in a view.
2. Do you realise how fast a properly indexed table/view can be queried? Also, how often do you think this will happen? Are you really interested to see if the person you're looking at has been renamed? Corp history is the 1st point of call.
3. How can you compare the directional scans (which are based on information from a client & lots of tables) & contract searches (which contain information from lots of tables) with a simple 1 vs many 2 table search?
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Sub Prime
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:45:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sub Prime on 01/03/2011 19:45:56 To add to previous posts. Historical name is like archived data in that it's only queried when you want to look at historic data, NOT current data. Any reference to the character apart from the contents of an 'Old Names' tab is from the character table. So please stop scaremongering about massive database lag!
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Oen''Gus
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Posted - 2011.03.01 23:30:00 -
[54]
Come on ccp, we put years into a character, ever thought someday we might not like our name anymore?
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SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.03.02 00:58:00 -
[55]
@AnonyTerrorNinja:
Again, the name change history solves a majority of the issues you claim it to create. API and coding implementations are EASILY capable as Sub Prime pointed out and any other programmer with database experience will explain to you.
You and many people on this forum are still arguing the same damn point I've explained for the entire arguement that a history, creates data, making the change possible, AND POSSIBLE TO BE TRACKED. You can track through the history itself or the API data able to created because of this idea. Simple database queries can be done without adding lag/latency or security breaches to the game.
Quote: "If you're buying a character you're buying it for its skills"
Point and case.
Quote: "The only reason people might want these name changes is because they aren't happy with their current name (too bad)"
No, Not too bad. You don't make that decision.
Quote: "The only reason people might want these name changes is because they aren't happy with their current name (too bad), or they want to try and make it less obvious who they really are for infiltration purposes, simple. When you see a new name and face in local, you do not automatically see an entire name change history, you do not see an entire corp history, you don't even see what corp someone is in; by changing someone's name, they can, in a matter of a day, suddenly appear as someone entirely different until someone investigates them."
Yes you do examine people in local! I won't believe you if you claim you don't, it is part of the game and identifying friend and foe. The only change is the name! You know you still look at corp histories, any standings will still be impacted upon a character, and I don't see how you can just jump to this assumption that EVERYTHING is instantly RESET and invisible. 'Oh my god I have no clue who this person is, he has a name I've never seen before.. I better just assume he will hold me and cuddle with me.' You're showing info, checking standings, corp, alliance, employ history, api checking... If you aren't you are in a fleet/combat situation and checking one simple thing: Standings.
Quote: "Why do you think, in the real world, that name changes are such an insanely lengthy, costly and potentially impossible to perform service? Clearly, if the person has even undergone a sex change and extensive cosmetic surgery, at face value, they're entirely different people with the change in name, right?"
In the real world it is as simple as going under a new name. You inform your government and any financial institutions of the change, most typically in marriages, and the change is done. There isn't a formal ceremony, it's a name, you've got some form of ID in lieu of that, for Americans it's social security numbers which can roughly translate in EvE to API keys. But enough real world examples in an internet spaceship game.
Quote: "A full name change causes too many potential issues, both in terms of player interactions and in terms of how it would affect the game's code/database. A name history field does not solve any of this whatsoever."
Sorry, but this entire statement is false as proven with arguments throughout the entire thread.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.02 01:07:00 -
[56]
In the real world criminals illegally change thier names without informing people and thats how your next door neighbor managed to kill your kids even though hes wanted in four countries. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.02 01:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: SXmasteraccount
Originally by: Barbara Nichole CCP, you're losing out on making our espionage characters reusable. We want to steal trillions with impunity..
Please let us hide behind a new name... (sic)
Thanks for the bump forum troll. Next time try reading.
I did read the post... I don't like the idea.. and if you have a character you have to cover the name on because you stole 100 trillion from an eve bank you can do it through your "plan". I prefer the names stick so we can trace what happens to characters. If this is trouble for you make a new character and sell the name your don't like. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.02 01:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nova Fox In the real world criminals illegally change thier names without informing people and thats how your next door neighbor managed to kill your kids even though hes wanted in four countries.
In this particular case concord has your dna... and knows where your clones are. No it's not a good idea.. this way if you are buying a "new" character you can do a search on the name to discover where it's been. |
SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.03.02 02:09:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Originally by: SXmasteraccount
Originally by: Barbara Nichole CCP, you're losing out on making our espionage characters reusable. We want to steal trillions with impunity..
Please let us hide behind a new name... (sic)
Thanks for the bump forum troll. Next time try reading.
I did read the post... I don't like the idea.. and if you have a character you have to cover the name on because you stole 100 trillion from an eve bank you can do it through your "plan". I prefer the names stick so we can trace what happens to characters. If this is trouble for you make a new character and sell the name your don't like.
So you either still haven't read it or won't acknowledge what I say. Where as I've pointed out numerous times ways to track changes to prevent such a thing from happening.
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SXmasteraccount
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Posted - 2011.03.02 02:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nova Fox In the real world .
In the real world is such a great argument in a spaceship game.
Originally by: Admiral Leviathan Completely against this idea and here is why:
2 years from now, I will use a locator agent on "SXmasteraccount" because I will be in a mood to mess with that character. If your idea is implemented, I might encounter something like "character does not exist you fool". Convince me first of why should I keep track of anything else than a character's EXACT name for future purposes.
And if you fail reading sarcasm, here is a more friendly example: I just remembered about a friend I knew in a corp a long time ago, but since he was able to change his name for whatever reason, I will never be able to check if he is still around, even if we both show up on the same grid.
I took a long while to figure out the names of my characters and made sure they were going to be still awesome in 5 years. If I ever buy a character, you can bet that a character's name will be a factor when considering the price.
You failed to acquire valid contact information for a friend you had interests in talking to a later date and time. That isn't anyone's fault but your own. Laying the blame on a character name change in a video game is pretty petty.
Regardless, who is to say it would be impossible to search for a character by it's past names if a history keeps this data? It's actually something I think should be tied in with the idea.
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