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Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2011.02.28 17:35:00 -
[1]
There are 2 bonuses conferred upon freighters based upon the racial freighter skills. The first is a 5% per level increase in cargo capacity, and the second is a 5% increase in max velocity. The first bonus is currently the only truly useful one.
A 5% bonus in maximum velocity on even the fastest of freighters is laughable and pretty much useless considering that freighters spend the majority of flight time either aligning for warp, or in warp.
Therefore, I propose that instead of a 5% maximum velocity bonus, the racial freighter skill should confer a 5% agility bonus instead, making freighter piloting for active flyers less tedious.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.02.28 18:57:00 -
[2]
Supported - the speed bonus is useless.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:26:00 -
[3]
Would make more sense than velocity bonus for sure.
Make it 3% even if its considered too powerful with 5%, still would take it over a velocity bonus any day.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:28:00 -
[4]
Cannot support this hard enough. Signature removed. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:31:00 -
[5]
Agility would make it a useful bonus.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 20:14:54 I never considered it... but might that (up to) 25% speed increase cause a Freighter to take longer to align?
#Edit: EFT shows no difference between a skill of 2 and 5.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:47:00 -
[7]
This is a completely unnecessary "waa waa make my life easier" proposal.
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Naga Tokiba
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:13:00 -
[8]
Supported.
And how about a few slots and some rig slots. Allso the ability to pick up cargo i space.
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Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2011.03.01 01:37:00 -
[9]
Got some folks to agree with me in a big way, so adding my own support.
Originally by: Naga Tokiba
And how about a few slots and some rig slots. Allso the ability to pick up cargo i space.
This would imo kinda detract from the fact that the freighter is the only ship class in the game 100% dependent upon skills, and nothing else. I believe it is meant to be that way so we cannot haul cap ships, and is easier on the devs to keep it this way.
Originally by: Gypsio III This is a completely unnecessary "waa waa make my life easier" proposal.
Consider this, sir. Way back when the freighter was created, eve did not have an easy way to warp directly to gates, meaning the 5% increase in max velocity was actually a useful boost. Now that you can warp to zero in any system you travel in, this boost no longer has any significant use. In our current universe as it is, an agility boost will actually make the second skill effect useful once again.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.01 02:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 01/03/2011 02:28:18
I'm an active freighter pilot... most of the time. I own 2 Charon (heck, I own all the BPO).
Losing the speed bonus for agility would mean freighters could reach warp speed faster, which is not where they spend most of their time.
Most of the time traveling in a freighter is spent on the 12.5 km distance to the gate and in warp.
For example, despite the fact that an Orca travels in warp a LOT faster (2.7 AU/s vs. 0.75 AU/s), the Orca has a lower top speed than a freighter. The Orca actually takes a lot longer to travel those 12.5 km than a freighter. The end result is that a freighter travels faster than an Orca. I've "raced" them on some long routes to verify it.
If you want to buff freighters for everyone, increase their speed in warp to say 2.0 AU/s
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Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2011.03.01 04:14:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lisa Waen on 01/03/2011 04:15:45 True, a warp speed increase would benefit any freighter. And since you are mentioning the 12.5km to gate distance, this means you tend to autopilot. Yes, switching from a max velocity boost to an agility boost would make an AP pilot slower overall. An agility boost would benefit active, non-afk pilots only. So, at this point, i guess the big question would be, should the skill benefit an active pilot more, an afk pilot more, or both?
Oh yes, and in case you have always used autopilot, there is a nice selected item icon that allows you to warp directly to a gate at 0km.
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.03.01 05:11:00 -
[12]
Edited by: mkmin on 01/03/2011 05:12:04
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 01/03/2011 02:40:03
Not Suppoted.
I'm an active freighter pilot... most of the time. I own 2 Charon (heck, I own all the BPO).
Losing the speed bonus for agility would mean freighters could reach warp speed faster, which is not where they spend most of their time.
Most of the time traveling in a freighter is spent on the 12.5 km distance to the gate and in warp.
For example, despite the fact that an Orca travels in warp a LOT faster (2.7 AU/s vs. 0.75 AU/s), the Orca has a lower top speed than a freighter. The Orca actually takes a lot longer to travel those 12.5 km than a freighter. The end result is that a freighter travels faster than an Orca. I've "raced" them on some long routes to verify it.
If you want to buff freighters for everyone, increase their speed in warp to say 2.0 AU/s
Rewarding afk autopiloting is bad. You want fast travel time, don't autopilot.
Definitely support a bonus to agility instead of velocity.
*edit: a freighter can carry 4X-5X as much as an orca. It should be slower than one, but that isn't what this thread is about.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.01 05:28:00 -
[13]
I support the principle of not rewarding AFK pilots with higher speeds. Rather than higher agility, what about higher structure resists? -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2011.03.01 06:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lisa Waen on 01/03/2011 06:32:33
Originally by: Mara Rinn I support the principle of not rewarding AFK pilots with higher speeds. Rather than higher agility, what about higher structure resists?
I actually gave that one thought and came to the following conclusion: 1) If someone is trying to suicide you you either a) have some really dumb gankers that will not succeed, or b) have some really valuable cargo that makes it worth losing 10-20 battleships
2) if you are wardecced and you are flying a freighter you are either a) not the sharpest tool in the shed b) being really expensive bait c) just don't care about a 750mil isk ship, or d) all of the above
3) If you are flying your freighter in lowsec see answers a,b,c and d for scenario 2.
Any of the situations that would result in the need for extra hull tank are generally better mitigated by smarter piloting, or using another ship for the job, and an extra 25% ehp prolly won't save you anyhow. So, although better resists would be better than higher max velocity, my preference would be for agility instead.
The exception to this may be for jump freighters, in which case the extra resist may end up buying you enough time for reinforcements... maybe.
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Jade Knight07
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Posted - 2011.03.01 06:28:00 -
[15]
This would indeed make flying a freighter less of a painà and probably help jita congestion.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.01 07:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lisa Waen Any of the situations that would result in the need for extra hull tank are generally better mitigated by smarter piloting, or using another ship for the job, and an extra 25% ehp prolly won't save you anyhow.
25% extra EHP means 25% more ships in the suicide tank fleet, which means you can carry more valuable cargo.
Then again, that means more cargo per trip, which makes EVE smaller and increases the incentive for everyone to trade in Jita. So scratch that idea :)
Higher agility would make EVE smaller too.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.03.01 07:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mkmin Rewarding afk autopiloting is bad. You want fast travel time, don't autopilot. Definitely support a bonus to agility instead of velocity.
^ This. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.03.01 09:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lisa Waen
Originally by: Gypsio III This is a completely unnecessary "waa waa make my life easier" proposal.
Consider this, sir. Way back when the freighter was created, eve did not have an easy way to warp directly to gates, meaning the 5% increase in max velocity was actually a useful boost. Now that you can warp to zero in any system you travel in, this boost no longer has any significant use. In our current universe as it is, an agility boost will actually make the second skill effect useful once again.
Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought this was about unnecessarily boosting a ship simply to make people's lives easier. Now I realise that the problem is solely a wasted bonus because people don't AP in their freighters.
So I'd be very happy to support reducing freighters' agility by 20%, then changing the bonus to 5% agility per level. I don't see what this would achieve apart from to annoy non-existent APers and people without Freighter V, but that's your argument.
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Rumia Marana
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Posted - 2011.03.01 16:19:00 -
[19]
I support this idea completely. While I can understand the benefits of Autopiloting in a freighter (say, a quick biobreak?), then yeah, a bit of autopiloting can be helpful. Doing it for the entire trip? If you've played the station spinning game long enough, you should know that that is a -bad- idea. Gankers like people who don't instawarp onto the gates, methinks. This might have already been harped on before, but what could also benefit freighter pilots is a 5% increase on that race's tank per level, in order to protect against said gankers. Sure, a freighter is a gigantic box in space... But does it have to be a gigantic, wet, cardboard box in space? |
Sepheir Sepheron
Between Ordeals
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Posted - 2011.03.02 00:27:00 -
[20]
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Mathais Longhorn
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Posted - 2011.03.02 02:42:00 -
[21]
Afk piloting in any kind of hauler is just a good way of serving your ship up for brunch. I fully support the proposal of swapping velocity for agility. |
Swynet
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Posted - 2011.03.02 06:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Swynet on 02/03/2011 06:33:39 Agillity or whatever but make freighters look less like gigantick ultra slow easy ganking bricks.
There are two activities I've tested and can't do them for any reward you can awford me:
Freight or mining with something less than an hulk.
Franckly what's the puropose of those activities in Eve's universe?- nothing moore sleeping than those ones. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Naga Tokiba
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Posted - 2011.03.02 12:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lisa Waen and is easier on the devs to keep it this way.
Sorry Miss, I dont really care weather it's easier on the devs or not.
What I care about when flying my Charon is not being ganged. I would be nice to fit a couble of warp core stabilizers and other defensive modules and rigs.
Actually, it dosent make sense at all that we cannot fit freighters - allmost every other ship can be fitted.
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Lisa Waen
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Posted - 2011.03.02 23:36:00 -
[24]
Point taken, but I could settle for a small improvement that would be easier to implement for now. Many wars are won not by blitz tactics, but by small incremental steps that eventually lead to your goal. By this way you can also avoid overdoing it. We already have at least one detractor in here who say that this single light step is too much
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Aurora Payne
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Posted - 2011.03.06 05:10:00 -
[25]
I never understood why the one ship that is supposed to be tasked with moving an empire's worth of goods had the crappiest tank around. At the very least jump freighters should be able to fit defensive mods.
That said, as a regular jump freighter pilot, I can't express enough love to the dev that decided on the quick cap recharge time!
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Mulberry Eowyn
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Posted - 2011.03.06 11:24:00 -
[26]
i already find myself bringing agility improving items along for trips and i never understood the speed bonus on those ships with their slow speed, its a percentage on a very low speed so it barely adds.
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Alik Fall92
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Posted - 2011.03.06 11:33:00 -
[27]
agility bonus would be awesome!
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.06 13:57:00 -
[28]
my personal opinion on this is both a buff and a nerf, so i consider it a balanced approach. i wouldnt consider an agility bonus to be beneficial in terms of game balancing, hell i know its a great bonus for freighter pilots bt you have to consider you're practically turning something the size of a city.
id say buff warp speed and reduce max velocity. you can see this as a freighter autopilot nerf, and tbh i think that should be encouraged. CSM Prop 1 CSM Prop 2 |
Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.03.07 15:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lisa Waen Edited by: Lisa Waen on 02/03/2011 23:50:25 Point taken, but I could settle for a small improvement that would be easier to implement for now. Many wars are won not by blitz tactics, but by small incremental steps that eventually lead to your goal. By this way you can also avoid overdoing it. We already have at least one detractor in here who says that this single light step is too much
most wars i've been in, one side or the other just shut down a few hours in, and the one war that i've been in that was not like that was the one where one six year old loki blew the crap out of our ten man t1 cruiser/frigate fleet with month old pilots. in my experience at least, you're wrong.
also, support for this idea. nerf autopilot hauling, boost active hauling.
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tritarian
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Posted - 2011.03.07 16:03:00 -
[30]
agreed...even a 1% agility would be better than the speed bonus.
It's a freighter...not a speed boat!!!
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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.08 00:35:00 -
[31]
I support a change to the freighter bonus. I think it would be better the change the warp speed rather than agility so there are still risks associated with moving a freighter. The warp speed change would make it a faster trip and not change a freighter's vulnerability. ------ Support Manalapan for CSM!
Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger
Manalapan Campaign |
Natalia Kovac
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.03.10 08:52:00 -
[32]
Good, simple, idea.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.03.10 22:26:00 -
[33]
doesn't everyone just use webs to instawarp and logoffski when anyone dangerous near gate?
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Marconus Orion
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.03.11 09:50:00 -
[34]
Don't want a top speed bonus and want an agility bonus instead? Get a jump freighter.
/not supported due to it already existing.
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Adiu Tor
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Posted - 2011.03.12 07:38:00 -
[35]
Supported.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:41:00 -
[36]
Agility is completely irrelevant as any half-decent freighter pilot enters warp instantly. If anything, a warp speed bonus would be something that would actually help. ---
Originally by: Sporked EVE IS DYING RUN TO THE HILLS! WE MIGHT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS MMO! THEY MIGHT SHOOT AT US WHILE WE ARE BUSY HOLDING HANDS AND FROLICKING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Windjammer
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Posted - 2011.03.13 07:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Agility is completely irrelevant as any half-decent freighter pilot enters warp instantly. If anything, a warp speed bonus would be something that would actually help.
IÆd love to know what youÆre talking about. Warp instantly you say. YouÆve discovered something that has escaped the attention of everyone else. IÆd really like to be able to enter warp instantly after jumping through a gate. If this can be used with other ships, itÆll have a major impact in EVE.
I support the OPÆs proposal. The sub warp speed bonus is a legacy from the days before warp to zero, though it still has some small use for moving the great ships when they fall short by a km or two when jumping to a station. Agility would be a much more important bonus for a freighter these days.
Regards, Windjammer
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.03.13 15:02:00 -
[38]
Do want!
Also, while you're at it, give freighters a low slot to put a DCU II in.
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Sadior
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Posted - 2011.03.13 17:55:00 -
[39]
good idea
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Dariah Stardweller
NO U111 Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.03.13 20:03:00 -
[40]
Makes perfect sense.
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Kumi Katana
Caldari Order of the Orange Lion
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Posted - 2011.03.14 05:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lisa Waen There are 2 bonuses conferred upon freighters based upon the racial freighter skills. The first is a 5% per level increase in cargo capacity, and the second is a 5% increase in max velocity. The first bonus is currently the only truly useful one.
A 5% bonus in maximum velocity on even the fastest of freighters is laughable and pretty much useless considering that freighters spend the majority of flight time either aligning for warp, or in warp.
Therefore, I propose that instead of a 5% maximum velocity bonus, the racial freighter skill should confer a 5% agility bonus instead, making freighter piloting for active flyers less tedious.
I have to agree to this, although there is a usage for this very speed bonus. As seen in any other ship as well, trying to get to a dock or in some cases to a gate, you can jump to 0 km. BUT you will often reach 1km or slightly more. Or the same with a gate of course. Then you need to use the engine to reach that gate.
Now, call me stupid all you want, but I say even that 5% speed bonus can help out to get that faster, specially since a lot of the capsuleers do automated runs and go afk. Knowing the auto pilot only goes up to 10km and flies the rest at normal speed, you will need that tiny bit extra to get there faster.
So I say why not keep it and then ADD the 5% agility to that, this should improve the ship more then changing it from speed to agility.
What do you think about that?
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.03.14 13:28:00 -
[42]
Don't you get agility from training advanced spaceship command?
Pinky -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Minnie miss
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:30:00 -
[43]
Fat ships need love too CCP! Stop the discrimination of the obese internet spaceships
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:08:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Zephris on 14/03/2011 22:08:20
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Agility is completely irrelevant as any half-decent freighter pilot enters warp instantly. If anything, a warp speed bonus would be something that would actually help.
Not everyone have an alt account or a friend nice enough to provide the web.
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Meisje
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:21:00 -
[45]
This is a great idea. I would love to see this implemented.
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Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.03.15 17:39:00 -
[46]
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Jestrick
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:15:00 -
[47]
As a future Freighter Pilot, I support.
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Mark Messier
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:57:00 -
[48]
supported. Agility>Speed
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Cantabar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 22:47:00 -
[49]
Supported
afk autopiloting should not be rewarded.
Also My carrier aligns and warps faster than my freighter... but my freighter can beat my carrier in a sub warp speed race? WTF?
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Cyprus Black
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.04.24 23:15:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 24/04/2011 23:15:59 Supported. A bonus to speed is nearly useless. The ONLY use I can think of is for auto piloting freighters trans versing high sec.
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Captain Brickwalle
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Posted - 2011.04.24 23:55:00 -
[51]
The prereq general ship skills all increase agility...
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2011.05.04 12:19:00 -
[52]
5% to warp speed per level would get my vote
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Zaxix
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
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Posted - 2011.05.04 16:03:00 -
[53]
Not supported.
AFK travel is already ridiculously slow in a freighter. How about increase the base velocity, lose the speed bonus, and give it a warp speed bonus. That will benefit both AFK and ATK pilots. The time spent aligning is roughly 40 seconds, with the best skills and implants you can get it down to around 20. So you're only saving something in the realm of 10 to 12 seconds per jump with your proposed bonus. The bulk of time is spent in warp or, if you're afk, moving towards the exit gate. |
Tarym Amouhkah
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Posted - 2011.05.04 22:09:00 -
[54]
seriously, this is ridiculous...
thread: "hey let's make our freighters align 25% faster" "cool great idea"x20
If you really want another bonus for bonus's sake, reduce the base agility for 20% before you raise it with the racial freighter skill for 5%/level
You know, freighters are actually meant to be slow, right ?
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.05 09:45:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa I never considered it... but might that (up to) 25% speed increase cause a Freighter to take longer to align?
No.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Xander Telcontar
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Posted - 2011.05.05 14:57:00 -
[56]
Agree on an agility bonus.
As to afk pilots... it makes no sense to "buff" afk piloting since they are afk; i.e. it doesn't matter how long it takes, they aren't at their keyboard.
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EnthusiGASM
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Posted - 2011.05.06 02:58:00 -
[57]
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Ji'kahr
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.10 00:47:00 -
[58]
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Seamus Donohue
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Posted - 2011.05.10 02:48:00 -
[59]
Supported, replace the velocity bonus for an agility bonus. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Andrev Nox
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2011.05.10 06:15:00 -
[60]
Supported. Reward those flying their freighter, instead of the autopilot masses.
Though, as JF already have 5% agility per skill level for one of their bonuses, it would likely have to be something smaller, like 3%.
Role Reform
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