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Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.02 14:14:00 - [1] I think Eve will be much more fun if ccp removes all Stargates from this game, replacing it for a jump range in ly (skill based) (like capital jump range) to instant warp from a system to another one. So if I am in Vuorrassi and want to go to Jita, I just go on map and look for a near system in my jump range, undock and instant warp to any celestial body or station in the nearest system and repeat it until arrive Jita. It will be much more realistic and no more freaking gate camp or fleet align warp jump, align warp jump, align warp jump (repeat it 20 times and add lag)... Wormhole theory is fine, so it doesn't need to be changed, btw we can't see unknown systems on the map so it's perfect.
jahenhs	Posted - 2011.03.02 14:56:00 - [2] Fantastic! But I think ccp dont have balls to do it. They just gonna **** off.
SevenOfSix	Posted - 2011.03.02 17:38:00 - [3] Love it! Although I think they can keep the gates for autopilot. Also, not to any station or body... say to a radon spot somewhere around the star?
ACESsiggy Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.02 18:13:00 - [4] Edited by: ACESsiggy on 02/03/2011 18:15:05 Yes, this is the only thing I don't care for. It's just annoying to me jumping gate to gate .... only thing that changes maybe is the stargate's structure or the amount of ships camping it
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.02 18:34:00 - [5] Get a blackops and stay out of highsec and you can travel like that today. Just let someone else fly the cyno ship and you will never have to see a gate again. :) Lowsec is like rockets - nobody uses that content, why fix it?
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.02 19:28:00 - [6] Edited by: Marchocias on 02/03/2011 19:28:05 Such a change would make the universe much safer, unless other changes are made to increase the opportunity of catching ships. What changes do you propose to encourage PvP away from gates? ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Halin Damal Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.02 22:15:00 - [7] I see a much more interesting New Eden with those lame stargates gone . There are 10 types of people; those who understand and those who don't understand binary!
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:13:00 - [8] Originally by: SevenOfSix Love it! Although I think they can keep the gates for autopilot. Also, not to any station or body... say to a radon spot somewhere around the star? Even to bookmarks. Autopilot will configure the route using the character jump range and you can configure if the autopilot use planets or stations as jump points.
I HateScam	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Get a blackops and stay out of highsec and you can travel like that today. Just let someone else fly the cyno ship and you will never have to see a gate again. :) Its not the same. You still need a scout to open a cyno in the other side.
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 02/03/2011 19:28:05 Such a change would make the universe much safer, unless other changes are made to increase the opportunity of catching ships. What changes do you propose to encourage PvP away from gates? Targets like people ratting, stations, starbases, custom offices... the enemies will arrive suddenly, not always looking for pvp, maybe just passing through, but in this chaos of jumps the probability of meeting enemies will growth. Actually people don't go 0.0 because they know the dogs are camping on the other side of stargate... but if there is no stargate? Think. Will be much more dangerous and the pvp will growth. Removing stargates is increase pvp.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:57:00 - [11] PvP would be more interesting and dynamic if it stargates were removed. Solo pvp would be viable again. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Tyffan Minmatar T2 Corporation	Posted - 2011.03.03 01:19:00 - [12] I hate Stargates and gate camp, both camp and be camped. This idea can help give solutions to many other problems like lag, solo pvp, small fleet pvp and Im sure it will be much more cool. CCP, remove these stargates asap please. -- "People lie, Killboards dont." Originally by: Sk Rooster "...yeah he said accidents do happen??!?!? how about he's just a noob and they lost because they suck!"
Riseth Psykotic Meat	Posted - 2011.03.03 04:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Riseth on 03/03/2011 04:19:06 Cool idea, but I dunno... it'd be a pretty big change to the feel EVE, not to mention the mechanics. Some thoughts and observations: This idea could knit together well with ccp_grayscale's idea for jump interdiction bubbles. Pirates could perhaps set them up in lowsec and catch players in the overlap when they're blindly jumping hi-sec to hi-sec. In the interests of PVP, a jump spin-up and spin-down timer could be implemented in which the player cannot use cloaking modules (except for maybe cov-ops cloaks) The usefulness of titan and black-ops portals diminishes a bit... CCP are already worried about force projection and this would definitely muddy the waters further.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.03 04:50:00 - [14] Though the general idea has been suggested many times before, there are a couple hundred other concerns and issues and topics that have to be involved in rectifying stargate removal entirely. Now there are some illusions of grandure Solving Lag isnt one of them, blobs will still happen. Now another issue that comes into reality As a new player without the skill, what is he going to do in system full of... nothing? Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
Phosphofuctokinase 1	Posted - 2011.03.03 06:47:00 - [15] You vastly, vastly underestimate the scale of space.
Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:11:00 - [16] Originally by: jahenhs Fantastic! But I think ccp dont have balls to do it. They just gonna **** off. Its a pretty ballsy move to take your flagship and only revenue raising product, and scrap it in favor of making a completely new game. Stargates are as integral to eve as guns are to call of duty. Not only are they important backstory-wise, they (along with the market) are one of the two key elements of eve's gameplay structure. eve without stargates is not eve at all.
IronHack	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:11:00 - [17] Edited by: IronHack on 03/03/2011 08:13:36 Originally by: Nova Fox Though the general idea has been suggested many times before, there are a couple hundred other concerns and issues and topics that have to be involved in rectifying stargate removal entirely. Now there are some illusions of grandure Solving Lag isnt one of them, blobs will still happen. Now another issue that comes into reality As a new player without the skill, what is he going to do in system full of... nothing? They can set the defaul (lvl 0) range to 1 avg system length, or give you the skill at lvl 1/2 or even add it to the training agents rewards. No star gates would be nice so you no longer have to follow the "lined path". when the system you want to jump it is like 2Ly away but 18 jump "lined path" away.... Originally by: Kara Sharalien Originally by: jahenhs Fantastic! But I think ccp dont have balls to do it. They just gonna **** off. Its a pretty ballsy move to take your flagship and only revenue raising product, and scrap it in favor of making a completely new game. Stargates are as integral to eve as guns are to call of duty. Not only are they important backstory-wise, they (along with the market) are one of the two key elements of eve's gameplay structure. eve without stargates is not eve at all. Maybe just 0.0/lowsec but yea thats a good point for empire.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:14:00 - [18] Also gate camp in 0.0? somone is misinformed, we INTERCEPT in 0.0 we dont camp gates, our scouts find you call out ship sizes nubmers and types and we arrange a force to smash your face in. We dont just sit around in 0.0 staring at a gate waitng for a poor smuck to enter we're simply too busy ratting officers out of the belts. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
IronHack	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:21:00 - [19] Edited by: IronHack on 03/03/2011 08:21:35 Originally by: Nova Fox Also gate camp in 0.0? somone is misinformed, we INTERCEPT in 0.0 we dont camp gates, our scouts find you call out ship sizes nubmers and types and we arrange a force to smash your face in. We dont just sit around in 0.0 staring at a gate waitng for a poor smuck to enter we're simply too busy ratting officers out of the belts. goto hed-gp, or any other system thats not 10+ jumps behind a war front. you'll be amazed.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:23:00 - [20] Originally by: IronHack Edited by: IronHack on 03/03/2011 08:21:35 Originally by: Nova Fox Also gate camp in 0.0? somone is misinformed, we INTERCEPT in 0.0 we dont camp gates, our scouts find you call out ship sizes nubmers and types and we arrange a force to smash your face in. We dont just sit around in 0.0 staring at a gate waitng for a poor smuck to enter we're simply too busy ratting officers out of the belts. goto hed-gp, or any other system thats not 10+ jumps behind a war front. you'll be amazed. ... There is a difference between a warzone and 0.0 Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
IronHack	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Nova Fox Originally by: IronHack Edited by: IronHack on 03/03/2011 08:21:35 Originally by: Nova Fox Also gate camp in 0.0? somone is misinformed, we INTERCEPT in 0.0 we dont camp gates, our scouts find you call out ship sizes nubmers and types and we arrange a force to smash your face in. We dont just sit around in 0.0 staring at a gate waitng for a poor smuck to enter we're simply too busy ratting officers out of the belts. goto hed-gp, or any other system thats not 10+ jumps behind a war front. you'll be amazed. ... There is a difference between a warzone and 0.0 yes but, it will make 0.0 pvp much harder then just numbers on a gate poping you one by one from the server system jump lag when doing mass(500+) battles
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.03 08:32:00 - [22] Originally by: IronHack Originally by: Nova Fox Originally by: IronHack Edited by: IronHack on 03/03/2011 08:21:35 Originally by: Nova Fox Also gate camp in 0.0? somone is misinformed, we INTERCEPT in 0.0 we dont camp gates, our scouts find you call out ship sizes nubmers and types and we arrange a force to smash your face in. We dont just sit around in 0.0 staring at a gate waitng for a poor smuck to enter we're simply too busy ratting officers out of the belts. goto hed-gp, or any other system thats not 10+ jumps behind a war front. you'll be amazed. ... There is a difference between a warzone and 0.0 Chances are however its going to increase lag by alot becuase they're not going to move out until they have everyone. yes but, it will make 0.0 pvp much harder then just numbers on a gate poping you one by one from the server system jump lag when doing mass(500+) battles Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.03 09:28:00 - [23] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 03/03/2011 09:31:17 Theres quite an easy solution to the problem of the vastness of space and player interaction. Scenario: I'm flying from Rens to Jita. Lets say it takes 8 minutes in warp. Hopeful pirate is sitting in a system somewhere with a new type of scanner that can pick up and probe out a warping ship that comes within proximity. Hopeful pirate successfully scans me and probes my trajectory, if an intercept is possible, calculates an intercept and jumps into warp to intercept. Hopeful pirate either activates a special scrambler / bubble that drops us both out of warp. Not a great deal of detail as to exact mechanics but a general idea of how something like this could be accomplished. Edit: Some things to consider: Faster warping ship would be beneficial for the pirate for pursuing (8 minutes so warp speed counts). Slower warping ship would be beneficial for the pirate for pre-positioning, he intercepts ahead of me, my ship warps faster, I eventually catch up to him and inadvertantly intercept him. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
TharOkha	Posted - 2011.03.03 10:00:00 - [24] Edited by: TharOkha on 03/03/2011 10:01:44 Hmm, realy intersting idea . And how about this -Keep all stargates as they are -But add to every system a public cyno generator -Those generators are visible just like stargates -Create new module to low slot (or other) "jump engine" so ship can use those cynos -Those public cyno generators are only in lowsec and hisec, not in null (and WH) -Using this cyno will cost you some isks (for example 100k per jump) and consumes fuel -Capital ships (exept jump freighter) are still prohibited using those cynos in hisec So there will be two methods of traveling -fast but costly (cynos) -slow but free (stargates) and pirates dont wory, from that point, you could gatecamp gates and cyno generators too.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.03 10:16:00 - [25] Stargates didn't exist in early alpha, they were introduced so folks could find one another to have fights as it proved very difficult to find one another.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.03 10:23:00 - [26] Originally by: El'Niaga Stargates didn't exist in early alpha, they were introduced so folks could find one another to have fights as it proved very difficult to find one another. Which is just one problem with bookmark based navigation.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.03 10:52:00 - [27] I'm not against having smaller ships have jump drives, in fact should be some rig that adds them to ships imho, it would certainly change dynamic of fighting, assuming though it still requires a cyno gen signal to jump to though folks will just warp to it that are prepared for battle when it opens and gank the jumper. I'd assume such ranges would be much smaller than that currently enjoyed by capital ships, probably 5 ly or so max.
Zagonetka	Posted - 2011.03.03 12:43:00 - [28] this is fantastic!! CCP remove the stargates!!!
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:39:00 - [29] Anyone who doesn't understand that the game server is a network of connected nodes, and doesn't actually have any space between those nodes should probably not post in this discussion. This isn't a simple matter, there are massive issues with both server technology and game mechanics that would need to be solved first. Nobody in this thread has even attempted to address them. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:44:00 - [30] Then again the Alpha had 2d graphics... I say keep the star gates in give all ships an optioin to be able to travel without using it. Being able to enter system without the camps, may take you alot longer to get there but. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
Mr Cleann Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.03.03 16:13:00 - [31] Edited by: Mr Cleann on 03/03/2011 16:15:23 Great idea!! As long as it don't require getting fuel. Jump range can be based on skills with level 5 being good for up to 10 systems. and level one able two jump up to 2 systems. When you come out of warp it is in a random location within that system or mid-point system. Where you wait a couple minutes to recharge the warp core before you can proceed. Be the kind of man that when your feet hit the floor each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up!"
betoli	Posted - 2011.03.03 16:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Mr Cleann Edited by: Mr Cleann on 03/03/2011 16:15:23 Great idea!! As long as it don't require getting fuel. Jump range can be based on skills with level 5 being good for up to 10 systems. and level one able two jump up to 2 systems. When you come out of warp it is in a random location within that system or mid-point system. Where you wait a couple minutes to recharge the warp core before you can proceed. goodbye market.
Phosphofuctokinase 1	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:19:00 - [33] This is a terrible idea. It removes choke points (both at the gates, and for routes in general), removes dead-end systems, makes it impossible to do things like kill freighters except on the undock, and doesnt really add anything to the game.
Charles Baker Gallente Unour Heavy Industries	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:12:00 - [34] The Capacitor Drain from jumping would leave ships vulnerable to being scanned down post-jump. Makes PVP opportunities more freeform instead of just camping gates :)
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.04 02:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Phosphofuctokinase 1 This is a terrible idea. It removes choke points (both at the gates, and for routes in general), removes dead-end systems, makes it impossible to do things like kill freighters except on the undock, and doesnt really add anything to the game. Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Belfelmalak	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:53:00 - [36] Actually if the aim is to counter gate camping the same thing can be accomplished by dramatically increasing the landing area of a jump gate and having a greater probility of landing at the edge. Add another 15 seconds to the auto cloak and most ships will be aligned and entering warp before the cloak runs out. Seems easier then re inventing intersteller travel.
Phosphofuctokinase 1	Posted - 2011.03.04 06:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Val'Dore Originally by: Phosphofuctokinase 1 This is a terrible idea. It removes choke points (both at the gates, and for routes in general), removes dead-end systems, makes it impossible to do things like kill freighters except on the undock, and doesnt really add anything to the game. Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Do you realize that this basically increases the volume of the game by a factor about probably around 10^9 or so?
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:03:00 - [38] This would be the end of blobs, bubble camps, and gank pipelines. Small gang and solo PVP would flourish, and warfare in Eve would become a game of real search and destroy, patrols, sweeps, etc. Supported.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Phosphofuctokinase 1 Originally by: Val'Dore Originally by: Phosphofuctokinase 1 This is a terrible idea. It removes choke points (both at the gates, and for routes in general), removes dead-end systems, makes it impossible to do things like kill freighters except on the undock, and doesnt really add anything to the game. Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Do you realize that this basically increases the volume of the game by a factor about probably around 10^9 or so? There is no reason to require it to increase the volume of any current systems. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.04 09:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Marchocias Anyone who doesn't understand that the game server is a network of connected nodes, and doesn't actually have any space between those nodes should probably not post in this discussion. This isn't a simple matter, there are massive issues with both server technology and game mechanics that would need to be solved first. Nobody in this thread has even attempted to address them. Likewise, anyone that doesn't understand that transitions between nodes are possible without a 1990's style loading message should probably not post in this discussion either. Please explain the massive issues with both server technology and game mechanics so we can attempt to address them. In regards to making space bigger, its not possible to say that that will be the case either without more detailed mechanics. Considering that there will always need to be a point A - point B path that will be known to all players ie Rens <-> Jita, chokepoints will still exist. Consider also that if it was possible to intercept a warping player that a scanner would most likely need to be employed to do so, and that you don't have a specific scanner radius (it could be a couple of ly even), its not possible to conclude that space would be made bigger or hunting made harder. Its extremely unlikely they'll ever do this in EVE but its being done in another game (ITQFE) and given that in computer programming, the barriers to what you can and cannot do usually lie with the development team and not computer programming / technology in general. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.03.04 10:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Likewise, anyone that doesn't understand that transitions between nodes are possible without a 1990's style loading message should probably not post in this discussion either. Speaking of people posting in this thread without knowing what the *** they are talking about*, you have no clue about the underlying structure of eves server-side software. You speak in an abstract fashion about loading screens being unnecessary, probably thinking about dungeon siege or some other similar game. But you don't know CCP's software. You don't know their hardware. Really, you have no clue whether it is technically feasible to modify CCP's current eve-related assets to allow for seamless transition from one node to another. So don't pretend otherwise, mmmkay?
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.04 10:58:00 - [42] You ask me what problems the server would have to overcome, then you site Infinity as an example. I have followed the development of infinity for years, and as impressive as it is: 1) they have no game yet, so it's not a fair comparison, as they obviously haven't even begun to tackle the gameplay mechanics issues which will inevitably result from putting a few thousand people into a radius of around 100,000 lightyears. 2) you are suggesting that Eve ditches those nodes in favour of this style of game which is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE without rewriting almost the entirety of the core of the game. Yes, in theory it is a great idea, but so are magic carpets, cloned dinosaurs and cars which call you Michael. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
betoli	Posted - 2011.03.04 12:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Marchocias You ask me what problems the server would have to overcome, then you site Infinity as an example. I have followed the development of infinity for years, and as impressive as it is: 1) they have no game yet, so it's not a fair comparison, as they obviously haven't even begun to tackle the gameplay mechanics issues which will inevitably result from putting a few thousand people into a radius of around 100,000 lightyears. 2) you are suggesting that Eve ditches those nodes in favour of this style of game which is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE without rewriting almost the entirety of the core of the game. Yes, in theory it is a great idea, but so are magic carpets, cloned dinosaurs and cars which call you Michael. writing in block caps makes things true ;-) It all depends what you mean by seamless, init. We are talking about a session change happening whilst in warp, not a 100 fleet space battle happening exactly on the border... just regard being in warp as the loading screen, and we can keep on drinking the kewl aid. This was already all discussed in another thread, way back on page, er 5. I don't know why this new thread even exists.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:01:00 - [44] This thread pops up twice a year but unlike the name change topic at least both sides progress the idea and counter idea further. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
betoli	Posted - 2011.03.04 14:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Nova Fox This thread pops up twice a year but unlike the name change topic at least both sides progress the idea and counter idea further. Nope this one has less detail, less development, and less information about how to redress balance. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1447903 It would be good if someone posted a comprehensive suggestion, but this thread is a stuck record.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.04 16:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Marchocias snip 2) you are suggesting that Eve ditches those nodes in favour of this style of game which is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE without rewriting almost the entirety of the core of the game. snap Read from post #94 in the thread in my signature.. navigational there is no server rewrite necessary. What is necessary is a complete overhaul of intel mechanics. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Nova Fox Though the general idea has been suggested many times before, there are a couple hundred other concerns and issues and topics that have to be involved in rectifying stargate removal entirely. Now there are some illusions of grandure Solving Lag isnt one of them, blobs will still happen. Now another issue that comes into reality As a new player without the skill, what is he going to do in system full of... nothing? It has easy solution. just player starts with minimum jump range.
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:53:00 - [48] Originally by: Kara Sharalien Originally by: jahenhs Fantastic! But I think ccp dont have balls to do it. They just gonna **** off. Its a pretty ballsy move to take your flagship and only revenue raising product, and scrap it in favor of making a completely new game. Stargates are as integral to eve as guns are to call of duty. Not only are they important backstory-wise, they (along with the market) are one of the two key elements of eve's gameplay structure. eve without stargates is not eve at all. You still will need to make the same jump path to reach the systems, like go Jita to buy or sell... you just will not use stargates to arrive there.
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Mr Cleann Edited by: Mr Cleann on 03/03/2011 16:15:23 Great idea!! As long as it don't require getting fuel. Jump range can be based on skills with level 5 being good for up to 10 systems. and level one able two jump up to 2 systems. When you come out of warp it is in a random location within that system or mid-point system. Where you wait a couple minutes to recharge the warp core before you can proceed. The range is based in ly range...
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Val'Dore Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Please, illustrate?
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:50:00 - [51] Edited by: Marchocias on 04/03/2011 19:57:09 Originally by: betoli writing in block caps makes things true ;-) It all depends what you mean by seamless, init. We are talking about a session change happening whilst in warp, not a 100 fleet space battle happening exactly on the border... just regard being in warp as the loading screen, and we can keep on drinking the kewl aid. This was already all discussed in another thread, way back on page, er 5. I don't know why this new thread even exists. Block caps = win, everyone knows that! Yes that other thread had a lot of much more detailed ideas discussed. Originally by: Tres Farmer Read from post #94 in the thread in my signature.. navigational there is no server rewrite necessary. What is necessary is a complete overhaul of intel mechanics. Yes, some alright ideas there... and it could be achieved on some level without server rewrite. You still have the problem of what happens at borders though... lets say i have a scanner which can see all nearby hyperdrives (they have to be hyper, because they don't jump, and they've got to be vastly faster than warp). Do I connect to all nodes within range to get all the info (technically tricky), or do I only get people within the current node (easy, but a bit unsatisfactory)? How do you get around the fact that there is simply nothing else there when there should be loads of stuff? The idea that almost every star out there is unreachable is a bit preposterous; I feel it would be unsatisfactory to use the current binary system plot device (as is used to explain stargates) on the basis that the the langrange-point-esque concept kinda makes sense for stable stargates but it seems stretched a bit thin for hyperdrives. How would you render it, without it sucking arse? If such ideas could be made to work, I'd be all for it, but I do still think that there are some real challenges to overcome before CCP could even begin to think risking such a seizmic shift in gameplay. Edit: one thing in its favour... the exploration and missions system could overcome the problems of empty space by randomly generating new stars etc, as the locations used for sites. Who would care that those stars disappear once the mission grid is despawned? ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Val'Dore Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Please, illustrate? For one, there is no reason to not add in more tools to find people with no stargates to default to. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:51:00 - [53] Edited by: Marchocias on 04/03/2011 21:52:37 Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Val'Dore Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Please, illustrate? Visit that other thread - there is definately some more detailed discussion on this kind of thing. Essentially "done right" to me would mean: leaving gates as they are, re-allowing travel into deep space within systems, have concord operate services at shorter ranges as sec status decreases in hisec introducing additional hyperdrives which are able to travel slower than via stargates, making session change occur as your closest system changes, and adding the ability to scan nearby moving hyperdrive signitures, and adding the ability to plot an intercept course for the signiture, provided your ship is faster, with the proximity of the intercepting ship automatically "destabilising" the hyperdrive and dropping the target out of warp ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Kara Sharalien Originally by: Infinity Ziona Likewise, anyone that doesn't understand that transitions between nodes are possible without a 1990's style loading message should probably not post in this discussion either. Speaking of people posting in this thread without knowing what the *** they are talking about*, you have no clue about the underlying structure of eves server-side software. You speak in an abstract fashion about loading screens being unnecessary, probably thinking about dungeon siege or some other similar game. But you don't know CCP's software. You don't know their hardware. Really, you have no clue whether it is technically feasible to modify CCP's current eve-related assets to allow for seamless transition from one node to another. So don't pretend otherwise, mmmkay? Lol. I speak about loading screens being unnecessary because I understand computers and software design. You seem to think that there is a physical requirement for a ship leaving Rens to physically move through space, through other nodes, initiating session changes on the way. This is untrue regardless of how the server is coded. A ship in EvE can travel from Rens to Jita in 1 second. All the server need do is transfer that ship to Jita. It requires 1 session change. The session change requirement is for data to be loaded after you begin to enter Jita which is the cutoff point for the warp so its not even relevant. Since games programming is about illusions and perspective the only requirement is for a pretty graphic and a completely empty solar system, which would require almost no loading time if preloaded on hyperspace warmup after an intercept was made. A ship could spend its entire time sitting at the exact same spot it left from, but removed (cloaked) and still give the illusion its travelling between the stars. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Colecionadora	Posted - 2011.03.05 02:41:00 - [55] This idea is pretty perfect. Awesome!! Maybe if a CCP guy come and tell us why not remove stargates...
Fire Chests	Posted - 2011.03.05 14:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 04/03/2011 22:10:32 Originally by: Sig Sour Originally by: Val'Dore Actually, it could very well increase the frequency and quality of pvp engagements if done correctly. Please, illustrate? Visit that other thread - there is definately some more detailed discussion on this kind of thing. Essentially "done right" to me would mean: leaving gates as they are, re-allowing travel into deep space within systems, introduce hyperdrives (only for non-capital ships) which are able to travel approximately 1/5 of the speed than equivalent journeys via stargates have the drives require fuel, making session change occur as your closest system changes, and adding the ability to scan nearby moving hyperdrive signitures, and adding the ability to plot an intercept course for the signiture, provided your ship is fast enough, with the proximity of the intercepting ship automatically "destabilising" the hyperdrive and dropping the target out of warp have concord operate services at shorter ranges as security decreases in hisec, making deep space outside the radius effectively losec... some 1.0, 0.9 systems might have ranges which overlap, others will be islands, thus you might get caught by pirates between systems new deep-space pve content, which also spawns new stars and celestial objects on grids in deep space, all tied into the exploration and escalation system There are still a few massive problems that need to be ironed out of course. - remove gates - make possible jump within systems - require fuel (race based) to jump within systems (jump drive conservation skill) fuel is used by the ship, dont need put it anywhere like on jumpbridges - drive will be by default on each ship (dont need to be fitted, except capitals which need jump with the actual cyno system) - fuel bay for all - require capacitor to jump (jump drive operation skill) - require ly range to jump (jump drive calibration skill) - each ship will have its maximum jump range - the jump between systems will not be like a warp, will be like a jump with wormhole effect like when capital jump / or jumpbridge effect... so session change as usual - 30 seconds delay for cloaking before jump - Jumping process (hole effect opening) it has a time (remembering that on actual gate system we need warp to gates on each system, so this time need be represented in this new feature) (this time to rejump can be skill based) - when opening a new hole to jump, your hole is shown on overview for everyone in system can warp to it
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.03.05 14:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Fire Chests - remove gates - make possible jump within systems - require fuel (race based) to jump within systems (jump drive conservation skill) fuel is used by the ship, dont need put it anywhere like on jumpbridges - drive will be by default on each ship (dont need to be fitted, except capitals which need jump with the actual cyno system) - fuel bay for all - require capacitor to jump (jump drive operation skill) - require ly range to jump (jump drive calibration skill) - each ship will have its maximum jump range - the jump between systems will not be like a warp, will be like a jump with wormhole effect like when capital jump / or jumpbridge effect... so session change as usual - 30 seconds delay for cloaking before jump - Jumping process (hole effect opening) it has a time (remembering that on actual gate system we need warp to gates on each system, so this time need be represented in this new feature) (this time to rejump can be skill based) - when opening a new hole to jump, your hole is shown on overview for everyone in system can warp to it Your idea: Makes the whole game much smaller, as travel will be far quicker. You end up with just "rooms", with no doors between them. Why even bother with a distinction between capital ships and sub capital ships if they can all jump? Its not tactical at all. Its just point to point jumping. COMPLETELY changes the game. With a hyperdrives AND gates system: There are multiple different tactical approaches that can be used: the slow, relatively stealthy hyperdrive method, or the fast but obvious stargate method, or (if u have captials) the instant jump method. It makes the game larger, by adding in the extra deep space which wasn't there before. It makes the game less safe, as that extra space isn't necessarilly concord defended, you're very far from any kind of safe place to dock, and you can be intercepted miles from your friends if you're not careful. Leaves the game the same, but adds more possibilities to it. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:01:00 - [58] I like the keep the gates idea as it expands the game not short sights it. One more factor I would love to add though not sure how possible it would be but being able to intercept and combat players in warp/hyperspace. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 20JAN11
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.05 18:47:00 - [59] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 05/03/2011 18:50:47 Originally by: Nova Fox One more factor I would love to add though not sure how possible it would be but being able to intercept and combat players in warp/hyperspace. Don't think so.. I mean, I'd like to see slower travel than we have now (to make trade and bulk transports more interesting and New Eden to feel bigger), but for this to work.. I mean, how long do you think it should take someone to intercept you once in 'jumpspace'? How long does it take them to nail you down and reach you? For this to work you'd have to be in 'jumpspace' for several minutes.. I'd say this feature dies right at the start block. Concentrate on encounters and intercepts at the outgoing and/or incoming jumppoints.. Essentially the whole idea should allow us to break up the bottlenecks leading into other systems.. not one door/connection and a limited number of them, no.. border-less free space feeling with an unlimited number of connections/doors. Then adapt the intel system so that the guys in low sec really have to work for those ganks (they should seek and find pvp by hunting and not by spawnpoint-camping). For the guys in null sec there should be sovereignty based intel that will give them the incoming jumppoints for anyone that is heading towards their space.. nice border patrol duties will be the result.. with people who try out the defence capability of those border patrols if they're sure that those hotdrops wont happen. And leave the capitals home for that.. put them back to where they belong, onto the large and cruelsome battlefield for the fight over sovereignty and not as hotdrop mechanic to blob small gangs. So, those machines need to become slow, really really slow. That's what needs to be done. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.05 19:09:00 - [60] Edited by: Nova Fox on 05/03/2011 19:13:23 I don't think this would get rid of the blobs from your idea on how it should be carried out from your point of view, this would require a world shaping objectionably that would involve a fresh approach on how to present something that ONLY small groups should do because what happens is that most things in eve are just simply done faster with more numbers. Removing jump gates would only mean they will commit when they are absolutely assured they do have what it takes to start trouble in the first place. What is to stop the ship that circumvented the gate from opening a cyno? jump portal? on top of a target that would almost require an effort of an entirely massive fleet to defend or destroy? Then of course the fact they can no longer defend the gates will now result in larger packs/herds for protection so all the 'juicy' targets if they have any intelligence to them will be well withing capitol blobs range to respond. People who continue to play eve don't stay unintelligent long, they either adapt or die trying and most of 0.0 are those who are keen to adapting. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:20:00 - [61] Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 05/03/2011 18:50:47 Originally by: Nova Fox One more factor I would love to add though not sure how possible it would be but being able to intercept and combat players in warp/hyperspace. Don't think so.. I mean, I'd like to see slower travel than we have now (to make trade and bulk transports more interesting and New Eden to feel bigger), but for this to work.. I mean, how long do you think it should take someone to intercept you once in 'jumpspace'? How long does it take them to nail you down and reach you? For this to work you'd have to be in 'jumpspace' for several minutes.. I'd say this feature dies right at the start block. Concentrate on encounters and intercepts at the outgoing and/or incoming jumppoints.. Essentially the whole idea should allow us to break up the bottlenecks leading into other systems.. not one door/connection and a limited number of them, no.. border-less free space feeling with an unlimited number of connections/doors. Then adapt the intel system so that the guys in low sec really have to work for those ganks (they should seek and find pvp by hunting and not by spawnpoint-camping). For the guys in null sec there should be sovereignty based intel that will give them the incoming jumppoints for anyone that is heading towards their space.. nice border patrol duties will be the result.. with people who try out the defence capability of those border patrols if they're sure that those hotdrops wont happen. And leave the capitals home for that.. put them back to where they belong, onto the large and cruelsome battlefield for the fight over sovereignty and not as hotdrop mechanic to blob small gangs. So, those machines need to become slow, really really slow. That's what needs to be done. Whats wrong with being in warp for several minutes? If I pilot from Rens to Jita it takes around 15+ minutes to get there. Removing stargates shouldn't make you travel faster it should make travel more interesting. At the moment theres nothing interesting about travelling 20 jumps. If its low sec / 0.0 you use a scout if its high sec you warp jump warp jump. Boring. Being intercepted during warp / hyperspace warp would add an more interesting element then scout jump, main jump, warp or warp jump warp jump. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:23:00 - [62] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Tres Farmer Don't think so.. I mean, I'd like to see slower travel than we have now (to make trade and bulk transports more interesting and New Eden to feel bigger), but for this to work.. I mean, how long do you think it should take someone to intercept you once in 'jumpspace'? How long does it take them to nail you down and reach you? For this to work you'd have to be in 'jumpspace' for several minutes.. I'd say this feature dies right at the start block. Concentrate on encounters and intercepts at the outgoing and/or incoming jumppoints.. snip Whats wrong with being in warp for several minutes? If I pilot from Rens to Jita it takes around 15+ minutes to get there. Removing stargates shouldn't make you travel faster it should make travel more interesting. At the moment theres nothing interesting about travelling 20 jumps. If its low sec / 0.0 you use a scout if its high sec you warp jump warp jump. Boring. Being intercepted during warp / hyperspace warp would add an more interesting element then scout jump, main jump, warp or warp jump warp jump. If you're talking 1 jump straight from ~Rens to ~Jita I'd understand you. But let me ask you what is interesting on being in 'jumpspace' for 15+ minutes instead todays version (what do you do there?), while you're waiting for somebody to intercept you and pull you out to <***> you? My vision works differently: - restricted jumprange for everybody to about 1-2 LY max (or optionally: further out than that and your accuracy goes complete haywire..) - shorter jumps are slow but more accurate, jump-incoming close to stars, for 'high sec' this means you land within CC/Navy punishment zone - longer jumps are faster but less accurate, jump-incoming further out, for high sec this means you land outside of CC/Navy punishment zone - CC/Navy punishment zone can be introduced for low sec systems with way smaller radii than in high sec to blur the borderline between high/low sec - autopilot jumps as fast or secure as you choose - jump-out and/or jump-in probably require spool-times to make hunting possible (following traces, being warned about incomings.. stuff like that) - with above spool-times you'd also get the option to create an intel system for sov space, that would give the sov holders information about incoming jump-routes - shipsize and jumprange would influence information about your jump-route (slow+small, hard to detect.. big+fast, easy to detect..) - capitals will need longer spools and probably go slower as to put them back to the sov-battlefield and out of the fast-reaction-playstyle (naturally if you jump into their staging system they should be able to react.. but stay 4-5 LY out and they need TIME.. any subcapital should be way faster) [TBC] Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:24:00 - [63] Projected outcome: Low sec roaming-gang-dwellers will migrate towards the low/null sec border-zone as to find small patrolling forces of the alliances there and knowing that the capitals stay close to their core systems, so 'equal fights' become possible.. the low/high sec borderzone will loose it's merit as ganking-noob-ground yay and become home to the lone hunter, that will also make some trips into the space between high sec systems to prey on the fast moving folks (the ones who jump outside of CC/Navy punishment zones there). Null-sec dwellers will get their small roaming gang targets for their own patrolling gangs (the ones protecting the core systems by flying patrol on the 3-dimensional border). They can themselves try to test other neighbouring alliances patrol forces if there is nothing going on (besides doing sanctums and protecting miners). If capitals will be moved it will be for the sole purpose of taking ground/space and both sides will know beforehand that they're coming.. not to hotdrop a SC onto some small fry. High sec dwellers will have a harder time to reach Jita from Rens within 15 minutes now.. some routes might completely change as the distance between actual high sec systems will be to far to make a 'safe-zone-incoming'. Fast-risky-travel and slow-save-travel will cause plenty of trade and bulk transport opportunities (Jita will probably still be the major trade hub, or some other might become that, if the actual position on the map is more optimal for the new travel-lanes, but other hubs should see way more traffic and trade than now). With a blurred low/high sec borderzone and the bottlenecks that todays low/high sec gates are, there will be more folk running around in 'punishment'-free zones, as the chance to survive there will be bigger. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 06:45:00 - [64] Originally by: Nova Fox I don't think this would get rid of the blobs from your idea on how it should be carried out from your point of view, this would require a world shaping objectionably that would involve a fresh approach on how to present something that ONLY small groups should do because what happens is that most things in eve are just simply done faster with more numbers. Removing jump gates would only mean they will commit when they are absolutely assured they do have what it takes to start trouble in the first place. What is to stop the ship that circumvented the gate from opening a cyno? jump portal? on top of a target that would almost require an effort of an entirely massive fleet to defend or destroy? Small gangs want small-gang-pvp. They poke 'something' in the hope the owner of that 'something' comes out and plays with them. Today the owner of that 'something' comes out with his capital(s) and wipes the floor with the roaming gang... no fun for the small gang. Or they run into another gang that is spawn-point-camping, probably with a capital on standby.. no fun for the small gang. Whatever way you turn it, today there is super backup close by and that's that. The future for those small-gangs should be to run to the alliances borderzones and poke them, but knowing that the response can only be some other (smaller) sub-capital fleet that needs to be ready and already formed to be able to respond to the threat, not some supers 10 LY out. That naturally is a two edged sword, as the border-patrols will only bother with this whole thing (including the miners/industrials to be protected) if they can do exactly that.. that means intel on the incoming threat and a 95% chance of interception before they can reach the soft targets at the core of that alliance (or the soft targets will vanish). Then there will be other gangs in that part of space with the same goals and who says they won't beat each other up if they get the chance for that? - again, supers need to have a very hard time to attend such small-fast-scale-skirmishes/battles. Originally by: Nova Fox Then of course the fact they can no longer defend the gates will now result in larger packs/herds for protection so all the 'juicy' targets if they have any intelligence to them will be well withing capitol blobs range to respond. People who continue to play eve don't stay unintelligent long, they either adapt or die trying and most of 0.0 are those who are keen to adapting. Larger packs/herds will take time to reach the incoming jumps of those threats.. especially on a 3-dimensional borderzone.. they'll have to split up and intercept the threat very early from going deeper into their territory. The big fleet should need to split up to accomplish that and fly patrol. Naturally.. if some intruders manage to reach the core systems.. yeah, give them all you got if that's your home. If the alliance only manages one big fleet-blob of protection, well good luck defending your territory way over there with those soft targets in them. We need a symbiosis between the guys who like to run the industrial side of things and the guys who like to pvp. One should always need the other to function. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 07:20:00 - [65] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 06/03/2011 07:28:04 Once this stuff works (especially the intel part) and the sea is calm again in sov space you could do something very cool for sov space (in case they introduce boredom by napping each other). Callsign-Faking. Any entity should be able to mimic any call-sign they want to out there in sov-space.. now that would be meta-gaming of it's finest. Assemble a small gang and give them the call-sign of some other alliance you don't like. Then run to the territory of even another alliance and poke them. Might even do this vice versa.. so you need two small gangs.. LOL. Only the alliance with the callsign you fake would know that you're fake and the alliance you came from would know your real identity naturally. Get out the popcorn and watch Real world history is full of stuff like this. For this to work we naturally would need a different intel system as today.. local as instant intel and personal identification tool must be gone for this. Even the Overview might need some nerfs.. False Flag: Imagine that for a moment.. you got stress with that alliance 3 LY over and you know they're happy neighbours with 3-4 other alliances close to them. Why not stir up that beehive of happiness a little to get them off your back?! Mimicry: Or you're running some freight and know that two alliances are blue to each other.. fake the call-sign of the respective other when you fly through their territory to become 'safe'. This would open a counter for nap-fests into the game.. paranoia Only real best friends alliances will have strong enough bonds for this.. and the communications channels to counter this. So just setting everyone blue close-by won't work anymore.. nono.. you really gotta work for that NAP now by communicating (and that in real time). See how long you can keep the nap-train up with this if communications becomes cruical. That would be social-gaming on the forefront of everything there is. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
machyphy	Posted - 2011.03.06 12:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Belfelmalak Actually if the aim is to counter gate camping the same thing can be accomplished by dramatically increasing the landing area of a jump gate and having a greater probility of landing at the edge. Add another 15 seconds to the auto cloak and most ships will be aligned and entering warp before the cloak runs out. Seems easier then re inventing intersteller travel. This
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 13:49:00 - [67] Originally by: machyphy Originally by: Belfelmalak Actually if the aim is to counter gate camping the same thing can be accomplished by dramatically increasing the landing area of a jump gate and having a greater probility of landing at the edge. Add another 15 seconds to the auto cloak and most ships will be aligned and entering warp before the cloak runs out. Seems easier then re inventing intersteller travel. This Let's see.. larger incoming bubbles with same game-mechanics: - try to defend that border of your alliance then (gatecamping there is a needed and valid mechanic) - gatecamps will get even bigger to catch stuff (smartbombs at the outgoing will still kill you if on wrong foot) - gatecloak 15sec longer wont help with alignment of bricks, as they need to move (read: decloak) for alignment.. and for an interceptor there is no real difference covering 20 or 50km within 10seconds - still rooms with doors and not space Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.06 15:11:00 - [68] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: machyphy Originally by: Belfelmalak Actually if the aim is to counter gate camping the same thing can be accomplished by dramatically increasing the landing area of a jump gate and having a greater probility of landing at the edge. Add another 15 seconds to the auto cloak and most ships will be aligned and entering warp before the cloak runs out. Seems easier then re inventing intersteller travel. This Let's see.. larger incoming bubbles with same game-mechanics: - try to defend that border of your alliance then (gatecamping there is a needed and valid mechanic) - gatecamps will get even bigger to catch stuff (smartbombs at the outgoing will still kill you if on wrong foot) - gatecloak 15sec longer wont help with alignment of bricks, as they need to move (read: decloak) for alignment.. and for an interceptor there is no real difference covering 20 or 50km within 10seconds - still rooms with doors and not space And how is removing a star gate going to make the system campers smaller? Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 15:40:00 - [69] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 06/03/2011 15:41:35 Originally by: Nova Fox snip And how is removing a star gate going to make the system campers smaller? It should remove them and replace their function on 'controlling' prey by active hunting (I know, some campers won't be up to that change and try to find my real life address now) I mean, nothing against guys who sit at a spot and shoot any passer-by, as long as it doesn't cripple the game to a standstill for that area. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Mikalya Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.06 15:45:00 - [70] Waaaaambulance time yet again. Scared of the AFK person you can't find. shakes head Get your friends and deal with it. 0.0 isn't supposed to be solo ratting in complete safety and peace. - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.06 16:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Mikalya Waaaaambulance time yet again. Scared of the AFK person you can't find. shakes head Get your friends and deal with it. 0.0 isn't supposed to be solo ratting in complete safety and peace. You might want to check the OP before hitting the submit button next time? Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.06 22:43:00 - [72] I say keep gates in, theyll be fun for other mechanics later (hacking anyone?) which would make them even a risker endeavor to utilize. I majorly disagree with every ship a jumper though, there is already enough consideration to removing jump bridges entirely because nobod is using star gates anymore and jump bridges are just so much more covienent in channeleing forces from point a to b, which I mind you is the current state of warfare in fleets of 100 of titans. This ability would not only compound the issue but further make any 0.0 harder to keep becuase the inability to defend against such massive forces which can bascially hit and run with pinunity. So my list again is Retain Stargates make stargates vunerable to hacker attacks Make Stargates even more defendable Add inner system gravity well (our current normal space) Add outer gravity well (barrier in which the hyperdrive must be used) Exiting outer gravity well transports you to other system. Add hyperspace footprint detection which will pinpoint exit Do not give every ship a jump portal Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.03.07 00:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Nova Fox I say keep gates in, theyll be fun for other mechanics later (hacking anyone?) which would make them even a risker endeavor to utilize. We talk back if Eve manages a PCU of 80k and even an increase of doors into low/null sec wont help anymore. Originally by: Nova Fox I majorly disagree with every ship a jumper though, there is already enough consideration to removing jump bridges entirely because nobod is using star gates anymore and jump bridges are just so much more covienent in channeleing forces from point a to b, which I mind you is the current state of warfare in fleets of 100 of titans. This ability would not only compound the issue but further make any 0.0 harder to keep becuase the inability to defend against such massive forces which can bascially hit and run with pinunity. Way to go to follow the thread.. This is not about Jumpbridges. This is not about Jumpdrives with 10LY+ range. This is not about keeping capitals as fast and long range as they are today. Originally by: Nova Fox So my list again is Retain Stargates make stargates vunerable to hacker attacks Make Stargates even more defendable Add inner system gravity well (our current normal space) Add outer gravity well (barrier in which the hyperdrive must be used) Exiting outer gravity well transports you to other system. Add hyperspace footprint detection which will pinpoint exit Do not give every ship a jump portal What do you want with hackable stargates? You want to hack the ones others closed up behind them to be 'safe'? Yeah, that will happen. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Jaigar	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:15:00 - [74] This thread is about jump bridges with/without travel time.. But in all seriousness, I can see why CCP wants to remove jump bridges. They remove some of the importance of tactical manuevers, defensive planning, and intel gathering. The importance of the size and speed of the fleet gets trivialized. Moving a BS fleet 5 jumps even takes a considerable ammount of time more than a frigate or crusier fleet due to warp/align speeds. And yes, space would grow by 10^9 at LEAST. For example, if your house was the size of a solar system and say, in New York, the next closest system would be in Hawaii (if not farther). Theres alot of space there, and if EVE has to calculate you traveling over that space, they have to add it somehow(if you expect players to be able to intercept). I'm sorry, but saying it would be more realistic to jump a lightyear (the distance light travels in a year) instantly pretty much wherever and whenever you please is hardly that.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:49:00 - [75] Originally by: Jaigar This thread is about jump bridges with/without travel time.. But in all seriousness, I can see why CCP wants to remove jump bridges. They remove some of the importance of tactical manuevers, defensive planning, and intel gathering. The importance of the size and speed of the fleet gets trivialized. Moving a BS fleet 5 jumps even takes a considerable ammount of time more than a frigate or crusier fleet due to warp/align speeds. And yes, space would grow by 10^9 at LEAST. For example, if your house was the size of a solar system and say, in New York, the next closest system would be in Hawaii (if not farther). Theres alot of space there, and if EVE has to calculate you traveling over that space, they have to add it somehow(if you expect players to be able to intercept). I'm sorry, but saying it would be more realistic to jump a lightyear (the distance light travels in a year) instantly pretty much wherever and whenever you please is hardly that. You cannot say it would make space bigger since you don't have all the variables that go along with the extra space. As an example, lets say CCP added 1 Trillion solar systems but also added a warp to option to any single person from anywhere in space in game. That would make space smaller then it is now despite the 1 trillion systems added. Thats an extreme example but its still true. Basically you can expand space as much as you want and if you add improved capability to find people to make up for the added space the size of the universe stays the same. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:52:00 - [76] I dont follow the thread because you're not following the thread either. Jump Bridge is basically your idea in currently in pesudo existence, every ship can jump from point a to b with the bridge. It shows a rather nice preview what your would bring to all systems. Also I was extermly vauge (from my point of view and hopefully everyone else's) on gate hacking, and you answered exactly as predicted unfourtunantely. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
Robaleiro	Posted - 2011.03.07 20:00:00 - [77] - keep stargates - add hyperdrive. require fuel (race based) to jump within systems (jump drive conservation skill) fuel is used by the ship - hyperdrive will be by default on each ship (dont need to be fitted, except capitals which need jump with the actual cyno system) - fuel bay for all - require capacitor to jump (jump drive operation skill) - require ly range to jump (jump drive calibration skill) - each ship will have its maximum jump range - the jump between systems will not be like a warp, will be like a jump with wormhole effect like jumpbridge wh effect... so session change as usual - 30 seconds delay for cloaking before jump - Jumping process (hole effect opening) it has a time (remembering that on actual gate system we need warp to gates on each system, so this time need be represented in this new feature) (this time to rejump can be skill based) - when opening a new hole to jump, your hole is shown on overview for everyone in system can warp to it
Roosterton The 57th Overlanders	Posted - 2011.03.08 05:08:00 - [78] Two words. Jove space -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three. Originally by: Tarminic OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
Nannageddon The Devil's Right Hand Black Cartel.	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:39:00 - [79] Originally by: Robaleiro - when opening a new hole to jump, your hole is shown on overview for everyone in system can warp to it ...
Gurenn Lagann	Posted - 2011.03.08 14:34:00 - [80] Regarding interception between highsec points and concord. You could add a function like the autopilot that you will do a longer (time wise) safe jump, where your route warps you within safe systems if possible, or a faster wich means you can get intercepted in low. But Concord would still respond if intercepted in high, as Concord uses Jovian technology (Read it in the Book, Empyrian ages) to jump large forces without gates straight to where someone is being attacked. Thats why concord suddenly pops up when someone is being suicide ganked in high. And the scanning for jumpers, could be as simple. When you want to jump straight from Rens to Jita you submit a flight plan to use the system. Any players can check who has a flight plan through their system (hacking/other skill to find out ship type etc? ) and if they have not passed your system, or you have a faster ship, you can intercept. I would never send my freighter through this if it meant I would be ganked for fun without concequence, when i can do the boring autopilot safe. Apologies if adressed.
Ambassadress Tasardurian	Posted - 2011.03.10 14:04:00 - [81] Originally by: Gurenn Lagann Regarding interception between highsec points and concord. You could add a function like the autopilot that you will do a longer (time wise) safe jump, where your route warps you within safe systems if possible, or a faster wich means you can get intercepted in low. But Concord would still respond if intercepted in high, as Concord uses Jovian technology (Read it in the Book, Empyrian ages) to jump large forces without gates straight to where someone is being attacked. Thats why concord suddenly pops up when someone is being suicide ganked in high. And the scanning for jumpers, could be as simple. When you want to jump straight from Rens to Jita you submit a flight plan to use the system. Any players can check who has a flight plan through their system (hacking/other skill to find out ship type etc? ) and if they have not passed your system, or you have a faster ship, you can intercept. I would never send my freighter through this if it meant I would be ganked for fun without concequence, when i can do the boring autopilot safe. Apologies if adressed. When the ship is preparing to open the hole, the same hole is opening on the other side, and is shown into the overview in the other system, so everybody there can war to it and wait the ship arrive.
coolruningc	Posted - 2011.03.10 20:00:00 - [82] hehe holes in space remind me of elite just give us hyper drive tehc:)
Tasardur	Posted - 2011.03.15 13:35:00 - [83] So what??? All this discussion for nothing!!!
Yulinki Atavuli	Posted - 2011.03.17 03:39:00 - [84] dont you guys realize why their are stargates to begin with? to separate different zones for servers. one set of servers are configured for rens for instance. you need some sort of boundary between star systems. whether it's stargates or a loading bar. me personally i would prefer stargates.
Renan Ruivo Caldari Hipernova Tribal Conclave	Posted - 2011.03.17 15:54:00 - [85] Originally by: Yulinki Atavuli dont you guys realize why their are stargates to begin with? to separate different zones for servers. one set of servers are configured for rens for instance. you need some sort of boundary between star systems. whether it's stargates or a loading bar. me personally i would prefer stargates. That fact does not excludes the OP's idea. Read it again :) Basically, he is suggesting cyno jumps without cynos on the other side. ____________ I like woman because breasts
DaRk'TaLoN90	Posted - 2011.03.17 17:25:00 - [86] Edited by: DaRk''TaLoN90 on 17/03/2011 17:33:04 Originally by: TharOkha Edited by: TharOkha on 03/03/2011 10:01:44 Hmm, realy intersting idea . And how about this -Keep all stargates as they are -But add to every system a public cyno generator -Those generators are visible just like stargates -Create new module to low slot (or other) "jump engine" so ship can use those cynos -Those public cyno generators are only in lowsec and hisec, not in null (and WH) -Using this cyno will cost you some isks (for example 100k per jump) and consumes fuel -Capital ships (exept jump freighter) are still prohibited using those cynos in hisec So there will be two methods of traveling -fast but costly (cynos) -slow but free (stargates) and pirates dont wory, from that point, you could gatecamp gates and cyno generators too. THIS! Altough idk about the 100k fee, fuel will be in more of a demand if this were to happen, therefore prices would go up and an extra 100k would just be annoying. Also instead of adding a module allowing all ships (except capitals) to use these cyno generators, why not make it "built in" like the warp engine (would save an extra slot :P)?
Eve Mione Gallente Eve Industry Unlimited	Posted - 2011.03.18 06:26:00 - [87] This feature would really change Eve and make things quite dynamic if done correctly. However Eve wouldn't be Eve without Stargates and this is why I am against removing them at all. It would be an assumption on my part that not all ships, Capsuleer and NPC civilians ships to have this tech or the CPU/Power for such a device. So therefor having both systems present would require some balancing, but would offer more opportunities and tactical choices. Well it is good to see I am not the only one who thinks hackable Stargates are a neat idea . I just came from another thread proposing to add a structure to temporarily stop Stargate travel and I ended up suggesting hacking rather then another 0.0 structure to destroy aside from the other idea of a wormhole extension structure. Anyway, I really like this short range jump/cyno drive limited to 1-2ly of any adjacent stars. Somethings I agree on and like: - Keeping Stargates (Limited control options for 0.0 as a structure if hackable) - More defense options for gates (0.0 structures) - Requires a new skill that has the same prerequisites as Cyno jumpdrive operation (This keeps new people to learn the basics with Stargate Navigation) - The engine requires either a module slot (High) or a rig - The power required will drain cap substantially either before or after or both (45-45%) removing the ability to jump again right after for awhile until recharge. - If they don't take Cap, or T2 version can use faction specific fuel similar for cyno use, more expensive but slightly father range. However increase sig radius while operating and can be scanned down almost immediately pending on skill both before and after use, unlike Stargates cloak can't be used immediately after. - Only specific ships that have fuel bays or navigation modules/subsystem can achieve this. - Have jump in point somewhere within 1 AU of the sun. - Unlike Stargates, it takes 1-2 minutes to initiate the jump pending on skill, exit point can be scanned during this time. Anyway, just my thoughts and ideas on the topic. Think I will go check out that other similar thread now. - I once knew a Ming Monyo...
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:03:00 - [88] hmmm. i don;t like it. there are so many tactics around the gate system that i think it would ruin too many aspects of the game. it would become impossible to follow/hunt people. gate camps would be no more, as with the risk of hauling. intel about enemies in nearby systems would be pointless, as there would be too many systems to keep track of, and no clue about the general direction. which also means fleet tracking and interception would be impossible... overall it would mean far less risk for those on the move, and far greater for those with homes... so... yeah. no. not a good idea, IMHO.
I HateScam	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:56:00 - [89] Edited by: I HateScam on 20/03/2011 21:56:52 Originally by: Arnakoz hmmm. i don;t like it. there are so many tactics around the gate system that i think it would ruin too many aspects of the game. it would become impossible to follow/hunt people. gate camps would be no more, as with the risk of hauling. intel about enemies in nearby systems would be pointless, as there would be too many systems to keep track of, and no clue about the general direction. which also means fleet tracking and interception would be impossible... overall it would mean far less risk for those on the move, and far greater for those with homes... so... yeah. no. not a good idea, IMHO. excuse me but, gate camp sucks a lot!!!

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