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TipsyMcStagger Caldari Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:43:00 - [1] Can a dramiel or an interceptor whoop a drake? If so how? Im running into drakes everywhere and want to kill em.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:57:00 - [2] I think you can annoy one, but as far as solo domination goes, no.
TipsyMcStagger Caldari Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Kijo Rikki I think you can annoy one, but as far as solo domination goes, no. Thats what I thought. Especially one with a blob not far behind.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:09:00 - [4] of course a normal pvp drake wont tank a properly fit dram or combat frig, but it will take you a while. And so what if the blob comes an AB frig should be able to run from a drake -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Gordin Brott Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Korg Leaf of course a normal pvp drake wont tank a properly fit dram or combat frig, but it will take you a while. And so what if the blob comes an AB frig should be able to run from a drake You might be surprised. Even without purgers or shield power relays, a buffer-fitted Drake will have an impressive passive recharge due to sheer bulk of EHP alone.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Gordin Brott Originally by: Korg Leaf of course a normal pvp drake wont tank a properly fit dram or combat frig, but it will take you a while. And so what if the blob comes an AB frig should be able to run from a drake You might be surprised. Even without purgers or shield power relays, a buffer-fitted Drake will have an impressive passive recharge due to sheer bulk of EHP alone. I was speaking from experience, a normal pvp drake would not be able to tank the DPS from a taranis indefinitely although it will take a long time to kill one still -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Aerion Va'rr The Priesthood The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.08 20:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Korg Leaf I was speaking from experience, a normal pvp drake would not be able to tank the DPS from a taranis indefinitely although it will take a long time to kill one still Taranis has more Deeps then a Dramiel. Yes it is possible, if you can pull it off of a station/gate or more preferably a planet. Its just going to take a long time, and yes the drake will be a ***** to break (Overheat at 35% and pray you get under 27%) even with Small Auto Spec V and 3 Hobs.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.08 21:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Othran on 08/03/2011 21:48:41 Originally by: Korg Leaf I was speaking from experience, a normal pvp drake would not be able to tank the DPS from a taranis indefinitely although it will take a long time to kill one still It will tank the damage from a Dramiel quite easily though. Edit - by which I mean you won't kill the Drake within ten minutes (maybe even 15) in a Dramiel, assuming the Drake pilot has reasonable skills.
Target Painter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.09 02:18:00 - [9] Edited by: Target Painter on 09/03/2011 02:18:36 You are going to feel very foolish if he keeps Precisions and Crash boosters on hand. You shouldn't get popped, but HMLs can hurt in the right circumstances.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.03.09 03:58:00 - [10] This is all assuming the fictional Drake pilot conveniently just ran out of ammo or is busy taking a shower while your frigate takes 10 minutes to kill it I suppose?
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.03.09 07:08:00 - [11] Sprullio, only if you fit cargohold expanders (for the precious drake loots) and LOTS of target painters. There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness.
Athena Silk Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.03.09 12:21:00 - [12] A Drake with 2x Invuln, LSE, DCII and Extenders will passive tank 149 DPS before heat and 175 DPS after heat. Add in say a PDS and you're up to 171/201 DPS. So basically, a normal PvP buffer Drake can fairly easily tank a Dramiel or Interceptor long enough to kill you and/or have someone come save them.
Zeerover Wolfsbrigade	Posted - 2011.03.09 13:32:00 - [13] And the dual web nano drakes give dram pilots nasty surprises :)
captain skinback	Posted - 2011.03.09 13:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Athena Silk A Drake with 2x Invuln, LSE, DCII and Extenders will passive tank 149 DPS before heat and 175 DPS after heat. Add in say a PDS and you're up to 171/201 DPS. So basically, a normal PvP buffer Drake can fairly easily tank a Dramiel or Interceptor long enough to kill you and/or have someone come save them. it would take all year to take down the buffer tank. and you wouldnt be able to do it anywhere near a station or a gate since the drake pilot will never land a decent hit with missiles de-agress and jump/dock.
Dark Pangolin Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.03.09 13:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Zeerover And the dual web nano drakes give dram pilots nasty surprises :) What Z said.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.09 17:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Omara Otawan This is all assuming the fictional Drake pilot conveniently just ran out of ammo or is busy taking a shower while your frigate takes 10 minutes to kill it I suppose? Chances are he's in a belt and you have him scrammed. He's not going anywhere unless he logs and if he had drones out then he's screwed as they will have aggro'd you. Unless his friends get there before yours of course Contrary to popular belief the Dramiel is pretty crap on DPS - for killing cruisers and up then I'd much rather have a dual prop ranis than a dual prop Dramiel. Obviously there are exceptions - eg dual prop Dramiel for fighting Vaga is preferable to dual-prop ranis due to base speed and the fact you can use barrage (perfect match for holes in Vaga's resists).
Glome Magicpants	Posted - 2011.03.10 03:19:00 - [17] A dramiel is more than capable of killing a drake solo. Click this guy is a perfect example of how to do it. Anybody who says otherwise either hasn't tried themselves or just sucks.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.03.10 03:32:00 - [18] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/03/2011 03:32:24 Originally by: Glome Magicpants A dramiel is more than capable of killing a drake solo. Click this guy is a perfect example of how to do it. Anybody who says otherwise either hasn't tried themselves or just sucks. A quick glance shows pve fit Drakes (and not even good fits, empty midslot WTF?) that also had aggro from npcs. That is not the point here, you (and the npc) can kill those in other frigates in these situations. Killing a properly fit pvp Drake is something entirely different.
TipsyMcStagger Caldari Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.03.10 04:10:00 - [19] Edited by: TipsyMcStagger on 10/03/2011 04:13:03 So basically my question is answered that in most realistic scenarios a dram will not solo a drake but is fairly capable of harassing them at will. And in pants down scenarios (off gates/stations) can tackle and hold for backup. Thnx
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.10 08:39:00 - [20] Yeah basically, If he has NPC agro then you can kill him in a dram, if he is poorly fit then you can kill him in a Dram, if you get him off gate unless he is the dual web fit you can keep him in one place and never worry about popping. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.03.10 08:48:00 - [21] Excluding drones, a well-skilled HAM or HM Drake will be dealing about 7% or 13% missile damage to a Dramiel single-webbed to 1000 m/s. Say about 35-50 DPS lands. That's more than enough to beat the Dramiel's passive recharge, but it'll take a while and you'll have plenty of time to bring in support or GTFO.
Fastbikkel T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.03.10 11:49:00 - [22] hehe i would take on any dramiel in my drake, i might not be able to kill it, but it certainly wouldn't be able to kill me either. Come on guys, the dramiel a great boat, but overrated in a lot of cases. -If the enemy is in range, so are you-
Aerion Va'rr The Priesthood The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.10 12:24:00 - [23] Dramiels can beat a Drake. A Drake can beat a Dramiel. Depends on circumstance, but I'm going to forget that tiny little detail that everyone in a Drake has a high skill set (using boosters, and tech 2 launchers lol, ALL mission runners do that ) and 'usually' people flying pirate frigs have maxed skills for said frig (or hopefully somewhere close). Sig Tanked with Halos and Hobs, the Dramiel wins. If his friends show up? Dual Prop should ensure your escape. If you die? Your an idiot, go back to rifters. The Pilot makes the ship. The Ship doesn't make the Pilot.
Leeluvv The Black Ops	Posted - 2011.03.10 15:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Leeluvv on 10/03/2011 15:57:37 If you can overcome the 150 to 200 DPS passive recharge and have enough time to chew through 75,000 to 95,000 EHP whilst being hit by missiles that have a range of 70Km and do a base damage of 450 to 500 DPS, then you can kill a PvP Drake with a Dramiel. Please realise that a competent PvP Drake pilot will have Faction Heavies and a range of damage types. With a dual-prop Dramiel, the AB will keep the sig low to avoid a lot of the damage. I don't know the DPS of a Dramiel, but even a 400 DPS ship will take approx 7 minutes to kill the Drake. The Drake only needs to land 8 DPS on the Dramiel to do more % damage in the same time period, so you may want to kill his 5 Warrior IIs first. If the Drake has Precisions you may as well leave him alone. EFT damage graphs show that Tech 1 Scourge missiles hit an AB Dramiel for 114 DPS, whilst the Dramiel will be doing 167 DPS to the Drake. Somehow, I doubt the Dramiel will kill the Drake. Originally by: Doctor Mabuse A wife is just a T2 GF. They're more expensive and their resists are higher
Aerion Va'rr The Priesthood The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.10 16:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Leeluvv Edited by: Leeluvv on 10/03/2011 16:00:45 If you can overcome the 150 to 200 DPS passive recharge and have enough time to chew through 75,000 to 95,000 EHP whilst being hit by missiles that have a range of 70Km and do a base damage of 450 to 500 DPS, then you can kill a PvP Drake with a Dramiel. Please realise that a competent PvP Drake pilot will have Faction Heavies and a range of damage types. With a dual-prop Dramiel, the AB will keep the sig low to avoid a lot of the damage. I don't know the DPS of a Dramiel, but even a 400 DPS ship will take approx 7 minutes to kill the Drake. The Drake only needs to land 8 DPS on the Dramiel to do more % damage in the same time period, so you may want to kill his 5 Warrior IIs first. If the Drake has Precisions you may as well leave him alone. Ignoring drones, the EFT damage graphs show that Tech 1 Scourge missiles hit an AB Dramiel for 114 DPS, whilst the Dramiel will be doing 167 DPS to the Drake. If you include the Dramiel's drone, he does an extra 60 DPS, but somehow, I doubt he'll kill the Drake before he has to warp off. Your doing it wrong. (Your also forgetting.. that at a 4km orbit, with barrage, Dramiels outrun faction heavies). I'm guessing your comparing missle damage to a lolshield tanked Dramiel. If the Drake has a Neut, the Dramiel is dead in the water. If it doesn't have a Neut, the Dramiel wins. (If the drake is using Tech 2 Launchers, he doesn't have a Neut, the fits to tight even with AWUV/5% Implant, unless the drake pilot uses some proski Meta3/4 Tetris fitting or a fitting rig)
Korg Tronix East Eve Trading Co	Posted - 2011.03.10 16:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Leeluvv Edited by: Leeluvv on 10/03/2011 16:00:45 If you can overcome the 150 to 200 DPS passive recharge and have enough time to chew through 75,000 to 95,000 EHP whilst being hit by missiles that have a range of 70Km and do a base damage of 450 to 500 DPS, then you can kill a PvP Drake with a Dramiel. Please realise that a competent PvP Drake pilot will have Faction Heavies and a range of damage types. With a dual-prop Dramiel, the AB will keep the sig low to avoid a lot of the damage. I don't know the DPS of a Dramiel, but even a 400 DPS ship will take approx 7 minutes to kill the Drake. The Drake only needs to land 8 DPS on the Dramiel to do more % damage in the same time period, so you may want to kill his 5 Warrior IIs first. If the Drake has Precisions you may as well leave him alone. Ignoring drones, the EFT damage graphs show that Tech 1 Scourge missiles hit an AB Dramiel for 114 DPS, whilst the Dramiel will be doing 167 DPS to the Drake. If you include the Dramiel's drone, he does an extra 60 DPS, but somehow, I doubt he'll kill the Drake before he has to warp off. If you take resists into account with faction scourge you are looking at 50dps max with a web on the dramiel too (deadspace AB Dram), thats not that much above the natural recharge of a MSE fitted dramiel. The competent Dramiel pilot will kill your drones before starting to shoot you. Also a decent dual prop Dramiel fit pushes 200dps with decent skills.
Leeluvv The Black Ops	Posted - 2011.03.10 16:43:00 - [27] I was using a 195 Mill Dramiel fit from the pilot that regularly uses them versus my PvP Drake fit to get those figures. Unless the Dramiel flies at over 6 km/s, the missiles will hit. Originally by: Doctor Mabuse A wife is just a T2 GF. They're more expensive and their resists are higher
Aerion Va'rr The Priesthood The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.10 17:18:00 - [28] Edited by: Aerion Va''rr on 10/03/2011 17:19:04 Originally by: leeluv I was using a 195 Mill Dramiel fit from the pilot that regularly uses them versus my PvP Drake fit to get those figures. Unless the Dramiel flies at over 6 km/s, the missiles will hit, plus the use of the MWD blooms the sig so they do more damage. The Dramiel fit I compared does just over 5km/s with MWD. z0mg 195M.. 6km/s is slow, really slow. 8.5k+ with deadspace MWD should be normal. Originally by: leeluv As for 200 DPS, that is what my figures state if you include the extra drone damage, but these would be the first things a decent Drake pilot would kill, so 1 minute later the Dramiel is doing less DPS than the shield recharge. How exactly does a Drake pilot kill light drones with heavy missles again, don't strain yourself on this explanation though. Originally by: leeluv As for Barrage, you may as well give up straight away. Even with Drones you're unlikely to break the shield recharge. Barrage is typically used while keeping range to dictate what im up against.. RF EMP is fine, but its optimal is sub-10km. Quote: Anyone can kill a badly fitted ship, the OP implied that he wanted to kill PvP pilots, not idiots with too much ISK. If he wants to kill PvE ships, he's got even less chance, as they set themselves up for passive recharge and will tank way more than the Dramiel's damage. Yeah because half the people here passing themselves off as PvPers don't fall into that 'idiots with too much ISK' category . Oh wait Your one of them.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.10 18:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Aerion Va'rr How exactly does a Drake pilot kill light drones with heavy missles again, don't strain yourself on this explanation though. Pretty easily, actually. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.03.10 18:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Aerion Va'rr Originally by: leeluv As for 200 DPS, that is what my figures state if you include the extra drone damage, but these would be the first things a decent Drake pilot would kill, so 1 minute later the Dramiel is doing less DPS than the shield recharge. How exactly does a Drake pilot kill light drones with heavy missles again, don't strain yourself on this explanation though. I think it involves webbing the drone, locking the drone, then pressing F1. I haven't strained myself with this explantion so the order of events might be a bit off though.

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