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VE3DVY
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.09 08:42:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Originally by: VE3DVY
You lost your Hulk because you didn't understand game mechanics. Here's your logic:
1) Suicide ganking is an exploit.
2) Devs should concern themselves with the elimination of exploits.
----
3) Therefore devs should concern themselves with the elimination of suicide ganking.
Premise 1 is simply false. Furthermore, there exists on the order of a thousand bloody threads about it (especially since the recent Hulkageddon, literally a contest between suicide gankers to kill the most industrial pilots).
Premise 1 has been refuted time and time again, and I won't spend anymore time on it except to say two things:
1) Use google or eve search to find the threads discussing suicide ganking.
2) NEVER assume you are safe in Eve. If you are undocked, you are a target. High sec only guarantees that the aggressor will be punished for blowing up your ship, it does not guarantee that your ship will not be blown up.
Alright, I will agree to disagree about this being an exploit.
Why do they get insurance payouts for their crimes?
Why is it I end up loosing significantly more than they did even tho they committed the crime?
I still contend there is something wrong with the system.
Again, please refer to my first point (1).
Suicide Ganking Google Search
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2011.03.09 09:02:00 -
[32]
You say that you want to know about game mechanics. That's perfectly acceptable. Here's what you should know: what you consider to be an exploit that CCP didn't think through/deal with is actually developer intent. Granted, through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen (e.g. suiciders' insurance payouts, low barge EHP). However, the reasons why you don't like this game are the same reasons why a whole bunch of other people do like it.
As far as your claim that players shouldn't police the game, isn't that exactly what you're trying to do? Or are you saying that when it comes to macro usage, we should shut up and let CCP make the calls, but when it comes to suicide-ganking, everyone should conform and oblige to your opinion? Seems a bit hypocritical.
Besides, you sure sound hostile and confrontational for a person at the receiving end of a gun. Are you sure it's a wise idea to call people on C&P stupid and unintelligent; people that likely enjoy performing the very same activity you have issues with?
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2011.03.09 09:34:00 -
[33]
Now I'll admit to being pretty clueless when it comes to EVE but even I am aware of the concept of suicide ganking and the need to make it as difficult as possible if you don'r want to see all your pretty ISKies disappear down the toilet.
OP is clearly trolling as (s)he is obviously clued up enough to find the forums in order to whine, however appears never to have read any of the 50% of threads where the concept of lack of safety within the game is expalined ad nauseum.
Still, next time I'm cruising through Teonusude with an alt I'll remember to look you up.
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Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
Devil's Call
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.09 09:44:00 -
[34]
Did this happen during hulkageddon, or what...? I can't recall that their are _that_ many suicide gankers ganking miners in eve. They'd rather gank ships with a valuable cargo or something I suspect...?
"You know whos alt wink wink nudge nudge" |
Jacquelin Ayalin
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Posted - 2011.03.09 10:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Destiny Corrupted
You say that you want to know about game mechanics. That's perfectly acceptable. Here's what you should know: what you consider to be an exploit that CCP didn't think through/deal with is actually developer intent. Granted, through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen (e.g. suiciders' insurance payouts, low barge EHP). However, the reasons why you don't like this game are the same reasons why a whole bunch of other people do like it.
As far as your claim that players shouldn't police the game, isn't that exactly what you're trying to do? Or are you saying that when it comes to macro usage, we should shut up and let CCP make the calls, but when it comes to suicide-ganking, everyone should conform and oblige to your opinion? Seems a bit hypocritical.
Besides, you sure sound hostile and confrontational for a person at the receiving end of a gun. Are you sure it's a wise idea to call people on C&P stupid and unintelligent; people that likely enjoy performing the very same activity you have issues with?
Dealing with the second paragraph, I am not policing the game at all, merely mentioning what I believe to be an oversight. They are two completely different things. Dealing with macro'ers because you feel it is your duty (or whatever higher calling you believe it to be) is far different from a mention of an inbalance and that something should be done to address it.
Dealing with the third paragraph, I am hostile towards the accusations that were made at me. Please read more carefully. I didnt make any accusations or call any names and I was immediately accused of paying real money for in game content and was insulted because I dared to ask about a game mechanic and even dared to mention that there was a huge balance issue.
And lastly, to address the last point, it apparently doesnt matter what I say, I was still ganked, insulted in the local channel after the ganking even tho I didnt say a word (and still havent). The forums here are the first place I mentioned this event and I mentioned it as an fyi to our corp.
I am perfectly willing to have a discussion and even debate the subject but when I am accused of things I did not do, that upsets me and I will fight back.
Being accused of a cheat (which is probably the closest term that applies to using rl monies to purchase in-game content) and that I am stupid and ignorant because I was ganked by 5 thugs in high sec space because (shocker!!), I dont know exactly how Concord and high sec space works (maybe because I've never done anything except mining and a tiny amount of ratting) doesnt make any sense to me.
In your first paragraph, you mention "through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen", I take issue with this. We arent talking about a 'small' inbalance. We are talking about no penalty for the criminal (Im sorry, Concord blowing up their little 1 million isk ship is no penalty in my mind) and the person who was podded looses generally ALOT more. In fact, in my case more than 200 times more.
So, if I had lost a 5 million isk ship, I might agree that there is a small inbalance that is acceptable. However, most of the people during Hulkageddon and even the three people tonight this happened to lost 200 times what the gankers lost.
Compound this with the fact that they were allowed to remain in the system and continue to do this to other players says to me the penalty for this isnt enough.
While I hate to bring rl into this, I am going to here because I cant equate anything in Eve to this.
If I cause $200,000,000.00 worth in damage and the judge makes me pay $1,000,000.00, how is this justice? The same is the case here in Eve.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2011.03.09 10:31:00 -
[36]
So you are saying that developers are obligated to only create videogames that are just; that MMORPGs that stack the odds against what we in "real life" consider to be moral are inherently bad?
What if, as a player with an equal (possibly even greater, if based on accounts owned) financial input into CCP, I find this imbalance enjoyable, and in fact would prefer it if that imbalance was even more heavily stacked against players such as yourself?
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SanZo Fengi
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.03.09 10:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: SanZo Fengi on 09/03/2011 10:34:41
Originally by: Jacquelin Ayalin
Originally by: Destiny Corrupted
You say that you want to know about game mechanics. That's perfectly acceptable. Here's what you should know: what you consider to be an exploit that CCP didn't think through/deal with is actually developer intent. Granted, through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen (e.g. suiciders' insurance payouts, low barge EHP). However, the reasons why you don't like this game are the same reasons why a whole bunch of other people do like it.
As far as your claim that players shouldn't police the game, isn't that exactly what you're trying to do? Or are you saying that when it comes to macro usage, we should shut up and let CCP make the calls, but when it comes to suicide-ganking, everyone should conform and oblige to your opinion? Seems a bit hypocritical.
Besides, you sure sound hostile and confrontational for a person at the receiving end of a gun. Are you sure it's a wise idea to call people on C&P stupid and unintelligent; people that likely enjoy performing the very same activity you have issues with?
Dealing with the second paragraph, I am not policing the game at all, merely mentioning what I believe to be an oversight. They are two completely different things. Dealing with macro'ers because you feel it is your duty (or whatever higher calling you believe it to be) is far different from a mention of an inbalance and that something should be done to address it.
Dealing with the third paragraph, I am hostile towards the accusations that were made at me. Please read more carefully. I didnt make any accusations or call any names and I was immediately accused of paying real money for in game content and was insulted because I dared to ask about a game mechanic and even dared to mention that there was a huge balance issue.
And lastly, to address the last point, it apparently doesnt matter what I say, I was still ganked, insulted in the local channel after the ganking even tho I didnt say a word (and still havent). The forums here are the first place I mentioned this event and I mentioned it as an fyi to our corp.
I am perfectly willing to have a discussion and even debate the subject but when I am accused of things I did not do, that upsets me and I will fight back.
Being accused of a cheat (which is probably the closest term that applies to using rl monies to purchase in-game content) and that I am stupid and ignorant because I was ganked by 5 thugs in high sec space because (shocker!!), I dont know exactly how Concord and high sec space works (maybe because I've never done anything except mining and a tiny amount of ratting) doesnt make any sense to me.
In your first paragraph, you mention "through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen", I take issue with this. We arent talking about a 'small' inbalance. We are talking about no penalty for the criminal (Im sorry, Concord blowing up their little 1 million isk ship is no penalty in my mind) and the person who was podded looses generally ALOT more. In fact, in my case more than 200 times more.
So, if I had lost a 5 million isk ship, I might agree that there is a small inbalance that is acceptable. However, most of the people during Hulkageddon and even the three people tonight this happened to lost 200 times what the gankers lost.
Compound this with the fact that they were allowed to remain in the system and continue to do this to other players says to me the penalty for this isnt enough.
While I hate to bring rl into this, I am going to here because I cant equate anything in Eve to this.
If I cause $200,000,000.00 worth in damage and the judge makes me pay $1,000,000.00, how is this justice? The same is the case here in Eve.
TL/DR
As for being so whiney and stuff up im tempted to suicide gank you myself 
Flame on 
Originally by: Kage Toshimado
Monkeys can make "chains" but not ladders. I think eventually, flinging monkey ***** will play a role in this experiment. That, or they'll all starve to monkey death.
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Eugenie Lefevre
Gallente
The Intaki Ladies Deep Space Astrogation Auxiliary
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Posted - 2011.03.09 10:36:00 -
[38]
lolz 10/10 OP
~
"I've been called the Women's Auxiliary of the Brat Pack." |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Eugenie Lefevre
lolz 10/10 OP
No, please don't let it be so. I have nine figures riding on this guy not being a troll. I'll never hear the end of it if I lose this bet.
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Savatar Mei
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Destiny Corrupted
You say that you want to know about game mechanics. That's perfectly acceptable. Here's what you should know: what you consider to be an exploit that CCP didn't think through/deal with is actually designer intent. Granted, through this intended game mechanic, some imbalances have arisen (e.g. suiciders' insurance payouts, low barge EHP). However, the reasons why you don't like this game are the same reasons why a whole bunch of other people do like it.
Quote:
fixed
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Lavraen
The Barbie Mercs
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:25:00 -
[41]
/Posting in a "change the rules to suit me" thread.
*waves and puffs mouth out behind a window like a monkey* |
Fouljin
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:13:00 -
[42]
If you mine in highsec, keep your hulk tanked, perioid!
Best way to make isk as a miner is to get into nullsec corp and alliance and then do all the mining in corps own pocket.
Better ore, safer, includes support with orcas and rorqs, ratters keep the rats away from belts so you can carebar mine as much as you like.
Sure corp/alliance takes some of your ore but it's still more proffit than in highsec. Can you say highend ore!
And if you can fly hulk, can use those nice t2 crystals etc. Any corp would like another miner to crunch those rocks.
Even the most pvp committed corps need miners and industrial people to build ships, ammo, mods, rigs and what ever.
But mining in highsec is risky as everybody hates miners and want's them dead.
And yes, insurance needs to be removed from concordoggen ships. Also sec status gains should be nerfed like theres no tomorrow.
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are ##0000FF, all my base are belong to you... |
Ariartus
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:22:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ariartus on 09/03/2011 12:23:43
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
and this is why we do it.
This op delivered 
EDIT. NOT a troll we did wipe out about 6 or 7 hulks in teon last night.
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Karah Serrigan
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:26:00 -
[44]
Indeed :o
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Chiana Moro
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:32:00 -
[45]
Some people 
Suicide ganking is not a oversight, a exploit, anything along the lines of this.
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Miura Butts
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:50:00 -
[46]
Of course, if you'd paid your mining tax this wouldn't have happened. Send 100 million ISK to Miura Butts and we will protect you from future violence.
Thank goodness Hulkageddon is over. Now we can get back to patrolling the asteroid belts in peace.
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tofucake prime
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:13:00 -
[47]
Edited by: tofucake prime on 09/03/2011 15:13:37
Edited by: tofucake prime on 09/03/2011 15:12:55
http://teamliquid.killmail.org/
That was funny.
Learn to tank, bro :P
Dear CCP,
Please add implants to pod lossmails.
♥,
tofucake prime
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Caelum Terra
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:28:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Caelum Terra on 09/03/2011 15:28:13
Linkage
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:36:00 -
[49]
Only ~2k damage to blow you up? Seriously tank your ****, you shouldn't have died to a bunch of dessies.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Iam Widdershins
FODT
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:42:00 -
[50]
Originally by: tofucake prime
<killboard link>
inb4 CCP Zymurgist
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:44:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Iam Widdershins
Originally by: tofucake prime
<killboard link>
inb4 CCP Zymurgist
According to CCP Spitfire you can link killmails with context.... 
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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tofucake prime
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Iam Widdershins
Originally by: tofucake prime
<killboard link>
inb4 CCP Zymurgist
OP brought up the ganking long before any of the involved parties came along. I'm just confirming his story. I see no problem here.
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:49:00 -
[53]
You had two extra medium slots, you should have put tank in them. Shield booster I can handle belt rats, but not a suicide gank squad.
They'll gank you for the lolz and their losses are cheaper. In fact, your drop from that kill probably gets them to break even on the loss. I wouldn't fly a 130 million ship without enough tank to last 30 seconds worth of gankage in high sec. Teo is a 0.6 system, so Concord won't be there for 10-30 seconds or so.
And no, you're not safe anywhere. If you take a big risk, people will take the opportunity to teach you a lesson. They don't care if they lose 10 million in destroyers to take out something worth over 100 million.
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Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:04:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Suiginryou Hitaiga on 09/03/2011 16:08:43
To topic starter:
First, eve was designed to allow, promote and, lately, even enforce scott-free aggression, while still maintaining an outlook of possible peace. Devs will not do anything about it, ever, unless extreme measures are taken by players themselves to lower the player base. The one way left is to make hulkageddon-like gankfests permanent; in theory, it will cause the majority of hisec population to cancel their subscriptions, and this might force devs to either implement some real protection in hisec areas or cancel security at all, making all eve (save a few newbie training zones) world nullsec.
Second, if you want to continue to mine, move to 0.8 security and don't use hulk anymore - it's only about 30% better than the covetor, but six to ten times more expensive. Considering hulk's paper armor and the cost of its wreck, a raiding party can even employ a few alpha tempests to blow up a lone hulk - it will still be profitable, and will work even in 1.0 space. Therefore, don't listen to people telling you to tank your hulk - carton is carton, and it'll be a big flying easy target.
To anyone talking about attrition making the market tick: that's a load of horse hockey. Most of merchandise is coming either from rats or from 0.0. I remind you that in nullsecs, economy is close to non-existent: for major alliances, all production is almost free, 'cause mining bots provide a huge, constant income of minerals. To you, your frig might cost 100K ISK. To them, it's 0. To you, your dessie might cost 2M ISK. To them, it's still 0. Cruiser? 0 ISK. Battleship? 0 ISK. Capship? Well, these will cost them a bit, but not because of huge material bill - it's simply taking too much time to assemble a mothership, so they have to use a number of alts and bot enough isk for all of them. Now, even whole blobs of capships fighting each other are not very uncommon in nullsec space.
So, no, ganking does NOT fuel the eve economy.
___
Remove insurance payouts for concord kills
Make wardecs expensive and declinable
Make SS go -1.0 per offense
Remove L4 agents from hisec
Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining |
Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:19:00 -
[55]
If OP would like a retaliation campaign please contact me in-game for price quotes.
Also confirming that major nullsec alliances provide frigs and cruisers for free so we can do stuff for the lulz. |
LegitGuy WithCandy
Caldari
Serious Legitimate Hauling and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:39:00 -
[56]
Best part of all this is that the OP calls people idiots while he is the one who lost the ship/pod to lack of intelligence....
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:40:00 -
[57]
Obviously a semi-troll (intending to provoke a discussion of Concord mechanics) but I'll bite.
First, you were AFK. Only a noob gets podded in empire.
Second, if you're going to AFK mine, fit a tank. The vast majority of these 'suicide gankers' are bean-counting, ship-scanning, spreadsheet nerds who will pass on you if you've got a semblance of survivability.
Third, yes Concord should pod and no, insurance should not be paid for losses inflicted by Concord. But pirates are notoriously poor and nobody would ever get suicide ganked if 'twere otherwise. It's hard to pop even an untanked Hulk in a fleet of cheaply fitted noobships.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:41:00 -
[58]
Um... I haven't been here long enough to fly a Hulk... how much insurance should the OP have received from this little event?
You know, I was (painfully) mining ice in my retriever the other day. Ship comes up, and before my slow arse could get into warp BANG BANG BANG dead. Between the insurance and isk on hand, I simply bought another. It happens. Eve doesn't coddle players, there's some degree of risk in simply undocking. You deal, you move on.
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Miura Bull
Minmatar
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:43:00 -
[59]
Of course, if you'd paid your mining tax this wouldn't have happened. Send 100 million ISK to Miura Bull and we will protect you from future violence.
Thank goodness Hulkageddon is over. Now we can get back to patrolling the asteroid belts in peace.
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tofucake prime
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:43:00 -
[60]
Edited by: tofucake prime on 09/03/2011 16:43:32
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
If OP would like a retaliation campaign please contact me in-game for price quotes.
Also confirming that major nullsec alliances provide frigs and cruisers for free so we can do stuff for the lulz.
I definitely just reported your post instead of quoting it. But that's totally okay.
Sorry CCP person who gets that. ♥ you guys. Please don't be mad ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Anyway....now I've forgotten what I was going to say....so.....
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