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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:05:00 - [1] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Malcanis So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE? How do you know they are cheaters? Because EveNews24 tells you? What makes this worse is that these players will not get killed for lulz, but because you think they are cheaters, that they deserve it and that it is right and justified! Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be wrong though. Worried about the next tranche of names to be released (eveisk.ru later in the week) are we? You're certainly not disinterested thats for sure
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:50:00 - [2] Originally by: Malcanis I think he doth protest too much... I think he's worried about what's coming next
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.09 17:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Barakkus You don't work for CCP or any other MMO company I'm guessing. All of the MMOs out there that do not allow RMT have methods of tracking transactions back to the source and can tell if it's RMT or not. You'd be surprised how much data they keep. For instance in EQ2, I did a server transfer and lost some house items. A GM came on and went through their logs all the way back to when I created the character and tracked down every item's source and where it "ended up". It turned out the items in question hadn't been picked up or moved since some server mergers a year or two prior and ended up with "no owner" so they got deleted during the transfer. The GM was able to successfully replace every item that ended up getting deleted during the server transfer. Don't be so naive. I know Eve has asset tracking tools for GMs as back in 2003 I lost the contents of a giant can down in Tenerifis - this was before the time anchoring came in. I was AFG and had no idea about the changes that anchoring brought so when I came back - year or so later - I petitioned. Much to my surprise all the items were replaced. I suspect that the audit trail isn't as long as it once was but it ought to be long enough to permaban some of the people on that list. Or not if its a "forgery" as some would like us to believe....
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.10 08:39:00 - [4] Heh squeaky bum time for a lot of people in this thread Amusing watching people from the offending alliances (and Whitehound) trying to claim nothing can be done because the data is "illegal" or can't be proven. Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME. CCP can do whatever they like and if you're one of these litigation-happy ****s (hello America!) then you can sue them in an ICELANDIC court for that's where the agreement is formed. Here's a hint for you though - you'll lose. I hope they permaban the whole ***ing lot of you Relevant EULA extract : "The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland."
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.10 08:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Orkasm So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again. "Fruits of the poisonous tree" is a US concept. Its not valid in most countries outside the US. For example, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa..... Perhaps you'd be better sticking to US games mmm? At least then you can threaten them with your "lawyer".
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.10 09:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Orkasm There are infact similar concept in other countries, and im from scotland not the states. Evidence this flimsy wouldnt get anywhere lol. Then you have ZERO clue about the subject and are making a fool of yourself so I suggest you stfu and stop embarrassing yourself in public. There is no such concept as "illegal evidence" either in the Scottish legal system, NI, or that of England & Wales. Nor is there any such concept in European (EU) law. Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence. Anyway your alliance has been caught with their fingers in the till so pretty obvious why you're here I reckon....
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.10 18:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Othran Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence. What does invalidate the evidence is the lack of evidence trail. If the records aren't kept correctly from the time the evidence is initially found till the time it's presented in court, the evidence is invalid and cannot be submitted as evidence for the case. It doesn't. The USA has a principle of "fruits of the poisoned tree" whereby any evidence obtained by illegal means is inadmissable - as is ALL further evidence gained as a result of the "tainted evidence". In most other countries that's not the case. Further evidence gained as a result of illegaly gained evidence is fine. Eg - and this HAS happened recently where I live. Cops boot down a door to search for stolen goods. Its the wrong address but they find a small cannabis grow. Guy gets 2 years in jail. Clearly an "illegal" search but evidence is acceptable as the jury recognise it wasn't fabricated/etc. Oh and anyone who thinks CCP would ban based solely on that list is delusional. The list is a STARTING POINT, thats all. For the major buyers on the list it should be utterly trivial for CCP to work out whether its true or not. Dates and ISK amounts are available so if CCP can't even do that.......
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.11 15:34:00 - [8] Outstanding - the new revised list is expanded and sorted. Epic
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:45:00 - [9] Originally by: dexington Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for everyone to understand? yes, but it's unclear if your oppinoion really matters... Oh I think it does. Makes a pleasant change from all the alts in the thread trying to deflect the attention from their mains
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 12:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Whitehound In fact, you will feel so good that you are not going to mind it when CCP does not ban thousands of players after all. You're expecting sympathy from the playerbase when (or if) CCP ban "thousands" of people who deliberately broke the EULA? Dream on. Everyone not involved in cheating will simply say "well done CCP, go ban some more of them". Simple as.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 13:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Whitehound The mob assume they did it all on purpose and for evil motives ... Hard to work out how you can do it by accident Anyway enough from me, everyone knows where you stand on the matter. They can draw their own conclusions
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 13:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Othran on 12/03/2011 13:38:22 Edited by: Othran on 12/03/2011 13:37:16 Originally by: dexington Most knew what they where doing and that it was against the eula, but you can't rule out that some new players didn't realize what they were doing before it was to late. You are allowed to buy GTC from 3. party websites but you are not allowed to buy plex, the business design where some sites are allowed to "sell isk" and others are not, does open a trap for people who don't know the difference. Take a look through the list. Its obvious which is which. CCP aren't going to ban someone because they spent $7.68 on 238mill of ISK. Edit - nor should they unless its a repeat offence, just take the isk. No excuses for buying titans, moms, implants, PLEX, 25bill isk etc etc from an out of game source. They need a ban. Simple as. Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX. Anyone trying to say there's some doubt about this is trolling or has a vested monetary interest in the matter.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Othran No excuses for buying titans, moms, implants, PLEX, 25bill isk etc etc from an out of game source. They need a ban. Simple as. You are joining the lynch mob again. Only because you cannot afford a Titan does it not justify a punishment, nor does it justify forgiveness when someone bought an amount you consider for yourself as minor. All CCP will do is to remove the ISKs produced by bots. It does not matter how small or large an amount is. There is no need for a lynch mob and a parasitic press instigating it all. Answer Avon's questions please : "Ignore the fact that in this case the list is about RMT. Do you think CCP should investigate accusations of cheating? Do you think that cheaters should be punished? Dp you think that, in order to protect the integrity of the game, CCP should be able to choose any appropriate punishment, up to and including permanent account bans?"
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:27:00 - [14] Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 12/03/2011 14:21:07 Originally by: Othran Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX. You assume a lot to prove your point, the eula allows for parents to establish accounts for minors. You can't always expect chrildren in non english speaking countries to fully understand the eula, which is one of the reasons you need an adult guardian to establish the account. You also can't expect a person who never played eve or have no interest in the game, to understand the difference between GTC and plex. It's an unlikely situation, but it's likely enough that minors play the game for CCP to add a paragraph about it in the eula. See I think you're trolling now. First you say you can't expect people to understand the EULA then you want a new paragraph in it. GTFO.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:37:00 - [15] Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex. You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item. Enough excuses in this thread TBH.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Whitehound So generally no, cheaters should not be punished I shortened it so people could cut through the BS. Oh and as far as this goes : "Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law. If we would punish people regardless of this then it would make us heartless people." I tend to agree but when someone buys isk outside the game (ie not PLEX/GTC) then there IS a "victim". That'd be CCP who provide an in-game mechanism to buy isk. They lose money on the "deal". So we all know where we stand now - lovely
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 14:47:00 - [17] Originally by: dexington Originally by: Othran Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex. You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item. Enough excuses in this thread TBH. You serious believe that if a child ask his parents to buy a plex he can get some isk, that the parents just knows the difference between GTC and plex, and the one is a in-game item and one is not. I think you'll find that if you allow a child to play on YOUR account, for you cannot legally open an account unless you are 18 years of age, then its entirely YOUR responsibility to ensure their behaviour conforms with the EULA. Just like any other online game which requires payment. Now really GTFO.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.12 18:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Jon Taggart At this point though, I believe Whitehound is trolling you guys as well for the past 15-20 pages. I hope you're right Mr Alt #3. The alternative viewpoint may be in the majority though
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 07:36:00 - [19] What's the point in arguing with the troll? He's already made false accusations, called people liars, called them cheaters, noobs, idiots, etc etc. One wonders precisely what the moderators are playing at. No matter, what goes around comes around.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 15:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Imo CCP should not ban those names but investigate on them first. Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it. I think you can take it as read that CCP aren't going to ban people or confiscate money without checking Which I'm pleased to say they are doing. A 3 month or so newbie (except he isn't, he's played before) in npc starter corp that my alt is in has had over 2 billion removed from his account and warned that next time will mean a ban. He's on the list. As an aside he got precisely ZERO sympathy when he relayed his "tale of woe". The overwhelming consensus was he got off lightly - and that was before someone worked out he's been using the money for can-baiting REAL newbies in starter systems. After that the consensus was "permaban". Anyway his name is now toast - nobody wants lame morons in corp that need to buy money, never mind the EULA violation. So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed. Enjoy
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed. Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit. If they are dated and have isk amounts on them then its pretty easy to check initial validity VERY fast. I guess Whitehound posted too much recently - hence you coming back to spread FUD Mr Alt. Spin on. Nobody believes you or he have "altruistic" reasons for your "contributions"
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:28:00 - [22] Edited by: Othran on 14/03/2011 18:28:50 Originally by: Centri Sixx I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual. Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand. Well from a personal viewpoint CCP has a choice : a) it can do more than indicate a preference for players who actually play rather than bot and observe the rules about in-game and OOG stuff which is frankly obvious to all but the dimmest of under-bridge dwellers; b) it can tacitly say "free for all, sod the rules do what you like". My accounts remain suspended and will expire after the much-vaunted FanFest presentation on cheating. If CCP want any more subs from me then that presentation better be worth watching. If its more PR fluff then we know which option is the one CCP tacitly approve. We'll see soon enough.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:44:00 - [23] Originally by: dexington Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Avon Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play. Nonsense. You make it sound like CCP is tricking people into accepting their EULA. It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement. Happily not the case in Eve where you sign up to it when you open A TRIAL ACCOUNT. Unless of course the character was bought OOG or whatever when yeah I quite agree but that's not CCPs problem now is it?
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: dexington It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement. True, but Avon is only trying to derail my point. Oh so much trolling, I gotta admire the dedication but... Irony. Ever heard of it? You're a Russian language speaker. That's your native language - its obvious when you try to pretend you live in other countries. Obfuscation - look it up. Thats you and I wonder why you're so irritated. Perhaps you know Vadim?
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.15 08:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Pink Crabs Edited by: Pink Crabs on 15/03/2011 08:26:24 Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00 Oh yes you will be bummed. ..... I appreciate that American usage is/may be different but this is an extremely offensive, vulgar and derogative remark in British English (who presumably make up a large portion of the user base here?), homophobic and certainly categorised as "extreme" in nature. Bannable offense ? petition ? it certainly should not be "un moderated" He's not American. He's not a native English speaker. God knows where he's "from" but its not an English speaking country.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.15 08:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Othran on 15/03/2011 08:43:46 Originally by: Pink Lobster This may be true but regardless (and with all due respect to someone who is at the least bi-lingual) - knowingly or not (and ignorance is not an excuse) this is an offence. Petition it then. However given that he's thrown insults and accusations around from the very first post he made in the thread I doubt anything will be done. Best to just ignore him - he's either an epic troll or up to his eyeballs in RMT stuff. Either way he's best left to stew in his own bitterness.

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