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Why aren't there new players?

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Forum Troll Trolling	Posted - 2011.03.11 07:16:00 - [1] title says it all, I can think of a few examples learning curve (this is ok) "friendly new players" (griefer alts) lowsec nullsec politics, and roaming SC blobs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service who want three things, your wreak, your loot, and your corpse (four if your count ragequitting the game and unsubbing) lowsec pirates complaining about lack of defenceless carebears to shoot and kill am I missing anything?
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.03.11 07:38:00 - [2] You missed trolls on the forums. You can help by deleting yourself. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
PHoneix NOir	Posted - 2011.03.11 07:40:00 - [3] All the new players are buying old players accounts
Thune Vorpal The Night Crew	Posted - 2011.03.11 07:46:00 - [4] I see new players entering the game all the time.
Bladwin Notorious Legion	Posted - 2011.03.11 07:47:00 - [5] Originally by: PHoneix NOir All the new players are buying old players accounts this guy has a valid point, and yeah number 2 is that a lot of the newer players stay in empire usually for 3-6months even before entering even low or nullsec. ------------------------------------ Ceo of Notorious Industries
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.11 08:06:00 - [6] people who say "poast"
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.11 08:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Thune Vorpal I see new players entering the game all the time. Me too. And not just player alts. I also see a lot of 2007-2008 players with just a few million SP coming back.
Rhes Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.11 09:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Forum Troll Trolling am I missing anything? Oh yeah...you're missing something.
Eastman Color	Posted - 2011.03.11 09:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Forum Troll Trolling title says it all, I can think of a few examples learning curve (this is ok) This is what drew me to the game. Now that I've covered most areas that interest me I find myself wandering the forums ¼¼
GizzyBoy	Posted - 2011.03.11 11:47:00 - [10] spending more time inf fourms than playing whats the stats for a bitter vet again?

Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.11 12:04:00 - [11] There are, just make a new character and watch the noob help channel.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2011.03.11 12:14:00 - [12] If u watch closely, u can see me sitting in the cabin of the bulldozer! ________________________________________________
Sebadai Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.03.11 12:54:00 - [13] Its me Im the new player you are looking for. - Way of the Gun PROM4CSM
Rykuss	Posted - 2011.03.11 13:27:00 - [14] I see new players all the time, even folks returning. I know that removing the learning skills raised quite a few eyebrows when I mentioned that and incursion to people I know that left the game long ago.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.11 13:36:00 - [15] EVE is not as complicated and hard to understand as people make it out to be. It's doesn't hold your hand in any linear progression like most MMOs. The perceived level of complexity is just a bunch of internet nerds trying to make themselves feel more elite. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.11 13:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Miilla on 11/03/2011 13:47:48 Because there is no real wide variation, its all space, all just another system, just another roid belt just another mission just another gate camp just another wormhole. Once you have done some of those, if just becomes a chore or a grind. Perhaps Incarna WiS will help change that, and make it more "social" and hopefully more to do "in station" than just oh look its one of the 5 station themes. Seen them all. Perhaps we can get DYNAMIC missions that are never the same, each one has a new twist. That woudl make PvE more interesting and challenging on par with PvP (if you can say that :) ). Basically EVE turns into a GANK grind once you get tired of missions. What really ruined it for me was the Vheriokor character change, I hope we get bloodline changes so we are not "locked in" for life to our avatar.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.11 13:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Forum Troll Trolling learning curve (this is ok) funny as this is, every time i see it i'm bothered by the fact that the axes are transposed. what it currently implies is that after a short amount of time players have a massive understanding the game. switch play time and skill and it'll be correct. as for new players. the things that bothered me when i started: - artificial delays that made even simple things take stupid amounts of time - who likes staring at the screen waiting to be able to play again? for several minutes? this game already takes long enough to make much progress - why make it take longer? - that fact that i was completely helpless in progressing my character's abilities. at some point i was ready for level 4's, but couldn't fly a fit that was able to solo them. so i did what all newbee's do: stopped playing until my skills got higher. that is a dangerous situation for ccp, because people tend to find other things to do with their time. I've suggested before that they should add some mechanics that provide very minor boosts to XP. not enough that grinders get some super advantage over casual players, just enough that the psychology of helplessness is gone. (though i'm not opposed to an advantage myself - since everything else in the game provides an advantage to those who play more) - griefers. being stuck in a station for a week tends to kill the experience for ya as well. yes yes, you could fight back, but what about after having been pwned by em several times already.... i've seen more people quit playing over this than anything else. but the real problem is that after getting used to all of this i really wouldn't have it any other way. but i suppose if it means the continued success of the game, and more people to mess with, then i could deal with the change.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.11 14:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Barakkus EVE is not as complicated and hard to understand as people make it out to be. It's doesn't hold your hand in any linear progression like most MMOs. The perceived level of complexity is just a bunch of internet nerds trying to make themselves feel more elite. I kind of agree. Nothing is really complicated, it's just very very much that there is to learn and know and understand but once you get the picture it's no quantum physics. Combat isn't complicated, mining is really far too simple and missions aren't channelling either to name a few EVE features thet could actually be a bit more challenging imo.
Rykuss	Posted - 2011.03.11 14:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Barakkus EVE is not as complicated and hard to understand as people make it out to be. It's doesn't hold your hand in any linear progression like most MMOs. The perceived level of complexity is just a bunch of internet nerds trying to make themselves feel more elite. I kind of agree. Nothing is really complicated, it's just very very much that there is to learn and know and understand but once you get the picture it's no quantum physics. Combat isn't complicated, mining is really far too simple and missions aren't channelling either to name a few EVE features thet could actually be a bit more challenging imo. I see that depiction for what it is, in my opinion. It's a silly depiction of the learning curve based on people's complaints as to why they quit. A lot of people don't want to do tutorials, no matter what game they try. They want to load up the game and get instant gratification. Those same people expect other established players to just hand them free things like isk, ships and skillbooks and then rage in the channel when you don't. They also expect you to spend all afternoon explaining how to play "the game" when simply doing the tutorials would've accomplished this. I guess it could be perceived as an elitist attempt at establishing superiority over other MMO type players but I really think you'd be trying too hard to see it that way.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.03.11 14:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Rykuss Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Barakkus EVE is not as complicated and hard to understand as people make it out to be. It's doesn't hold your hand in any linear progression like most MMOs. The perceived level of complexity is just a bunch of internet nerds trying to make themselves feel more elite. I kind of agree. Nothing is really complicated, it's just very very much that there is to learn and know and understand but once you get the picture it's no quantum physics. Combat isn't complicated, mining is really far too simple and missions aren't channelling either to name a few EVE features thet could actually be a bit more challenging imo. I see that depiction for what it is, in my opinion. It's a silly depiction of the learning curve based on people's complaints as to why they quit. A lot of people don't want to do tutorials, no matter what game they try. They want to load up the game and get instant gratification. Those same people expect other established players to just hand them free things like isk, ships and skillbooks and then rage in the channel when you don't. They also expect you to spend all afternoon explaining how to play "the game" when simply doing the tutorials would've accomplished this. I guess it could be perceived as an elitist attempt at establishing superiority over other MMO type players but I really think you'd be trying too hard to see it that way. Bang on, The issue is in their upbringing and the lack of teaching of "delayed gratification" rather they throw tantrums like a child to get "instant gratification", this is also why crap FPS's are big sellers.

dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.11 15:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Miilla Bang on, The issue is in their upbringing and the lack of teaching of "delayed gratification" rather they throw tantrums like a child to get "instant gratification", this is also why crap FPS's are big sellers. Most people have some expectation that constructive behavior is rewarded, but eve don't have alot of that and that has nothing to do with instant gratification. Your character don't progress by you playing the game, many people don't like the constant waiting for skill points to increase and skills to complete. Often you are inclined to avoid social interaction with players you don't know because you can't trust them, if you play an mmo mainly for the social elements i find it hard to believe many would pick eve as their first choice. Most mmo's ofter some content for the players with limited time to play, eg. wow has instances and battlegrounds, most elements of eve is time consuming and ever more so for new players. Eve is the type of game that you love or just don't play, and i don't think it has anything to do with the eve player base having superior impulse control.
Lord Tempist Caldari Council of Lords	Posted - 2011.03.11 15:36:00 - [22] Most people who want real actual ~PVP~ will play something like "Call of Duty" on their Play Station. I come to EVE because my life long friends hang out here and I can kick back and voice chat them. I can also read my homework assignments while I mine. It's a fairly laid back game. EVE draws in people who like a lot of variables to work with. No man ever got killed by his wife while giving her a footrub. Rubbing someone elses wife's feet, well... Fill in the blank
Baconbit Argonauts of BAcon	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:47:00 - [23] At first my mains mined, hauled and ratted till I got some bank and a little bored. Then made a couple combat alts to go mission crazy and like someone above said I got L4's and didn't have the skills to do em soo I just do L3's for different agents and corps and do some mining, hauling while my combat alts skill for T2 BS (one more month joy). There really is a lot of stuff to do. I've only tapped into 2 aspects of the game. Its taken me a few years and I still feel noobish. I've gone back to other mmos but EVE is the only one that gives me a chance to use my brain and I always end up back here
Tobias Imasqin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:51:00 - [24] Its not a particually difficult game to play and compared to other MMO's I've played rewards are much less frequent which no doubt contributes to low new player retention. On the flip-side this favours players who through preference or circumstances prefer working towards long-term goals. Personally I don't have the time to play hours on end every night so games that rely on frequent rewards in return for time-invested don't interest me or become frustrating.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Bladwin Originally by: PHoneix NOir All the new players are buying old players accounts this guy has a valid point, and yeah number 2 is that a lot of the newer players stay in empire usually for 3-6months even before entering even low or nullsec. Not easy for new players to put a step in low sec. 1st you have all players base paranoia over developed in high sec thx to all game mechanics exploits 2nd how do you want the guy to get some knowlege or will to jump into low sec if all he sees in high sec is that high sec is everything but secure? -then you ask him to go out in low have "fun" 3rd corps: this is the bigest problem to get new players in to low/null. SP requierments, FC's attitude, people working instead of playing, too serious, paranoid etc. I'm trying to get new players in to low sec with my corp, even low sp we take them there and they learn that losses are normal but doesn't cost them a ct, we pay every single ship and his fit from T1/T2 for free and we also learn them that mining with other guys is not what we like more in the game but if we want free stuff we must work together has a team. New players are not stupid, they just don't know nothing about game mechanics and think that if high sec is not safe then low is hell, plus they need isk and feel they progress since learning curve is that ridiculous. We never adress someone because of whatever happens in fight, people must learn with their mistakes and live with their faults and they're not stupid, they learn fast and once they know the mistakes they must not do or avoid, they enjoy low sec. But still it's almost impossible to newbbies to mission/mine in low or realy harsh while at a few jumps they can do it AFK beer/chips. Serious projects to improve low sec population must be put on the table but for this CCP must open their hears and eyes, and this is the most difficult if not impossible. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Forum Troll Trolling Edited by: Forum Troll Trolling on 11/03/2011 08:11:12 Edited by: Forum Troll Trolling on 11/03/2011 07:40:23 title says it all, I can think of a few examples learning curve (this is ok) "friendly new players" (griefer alts) lowsec nullsec politics, and roaming SC blobs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service who want three things, your wreak, your loot, and your corpse (four if your count ragequitting the game and unsubbing) lowsec pirates complaining about lack of defenceless carebears to shoot and kill am I missing anything? You're missing that a lot of new players are JOINING specifically for the reasons you listed, not leaving because of them. The only people that leave are crybabies that come to this game thinking its WOW in space where GMs force everyone to be friendly and there's no consequences for dying. ♥
Swynet	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Awesome Possum The only people that leave are crybabies that come to this game thinking its WOW in space where GMs force everyone to be friendly and there's no consequences for dying. There are other consequences when you die and this in wow or another game you just don't see them, minimise them or are blind. Eve is completely apart from other games for this major reason: you have nothing to do to get sp other than fill you skills Que, once it's Donne you can afk youpo_rn or do whatever, when you get back you got your sp. While this is in (slow...very slow) progress you do the same thing hundreds and millions of times but wait, it's like wow you kill the same stuff hundreds of times to get purple lootz and wait, it's like Asian mmo's you need months grinding gazillions rabbits to be able to use interesting stuff. People should stop with false arguments, the major difference in this game is the ridiculous progressing curve while you're playing and that you don't play a sexy char - it's changing with incarna and for what we can read in this forum they're not different from wow players = vanity and sexy stuff PVP? go ahead and try wow arena stuff or pvp servers and tell me then that you get bored or can't find targets and have your fun, you'll be the biggest liar on this planet. ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Swynet Originally by: Awesome Possum The only people that leave are crybabies that come to this game thinking its WOW in space where GMs force everyone to be friendly and there's no consequences for dying. There are other consequences when you die and this in wow or another game you just don't see them, minimise them or are blind. Eve is completely apart from other games for this major reason: you have nothing to do to get sp other than fill you skills Que, once it's Donne you can afk youpo_rn or do whatever, when you get back you got your sp. While this is in (slow...very slow) progress you do the same thing hundreds and millions of times but wait, it's like wow you kill the same stuff hundreds of times to get purple lootz and wait, it's like Asian mmo's you need months grinding gazillions rabbits to be able to use interesting stuff. People should stop with false arguments, the major difference in this game is the ridiculous progressing curve while you're playing and that you don't play a sexy char - it's changing with incarna and for what we can read in this forum they're not different from wow players = vanity and sexy stuff PVP? go ahead and try wow arena stuff or pvp servers and tell me then that you get bored or can't find targets and have your fun, you'll be the biggest liar on this planet. The consequences are not only minimal in WOW, but Cataclysm has further trivialized them with guild ranking. As for WOW PVP, who cares? You die, you don't lose gear, you don't even have to repair like a pve death... you res and go kill/die again. That's it. There is no "ridiculous curve" for playing EVE. Any pilot can be useful, even integral, to a pvp fleet. A week old player with bare minimum training can fit a point/mwd on a rifter and get the tackle on a multi-billion faction ship. A week old player can go ninja salvaging mission wrecks, making almost as much money as those year(s) old lvl 4 runners, and may even be able to pop one if its foolish enough to shoot them. ♥
Jame Jarl Retief	Posted - 2011.03.11 21:05:00 - [29] Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief on 11/03/2011 21:05:35 Originally by: Awesome Possum As for WOW PVP, who cares? You die, you don't lose gear, you don't even have to repair like a pve death... you res and go kill/die again. That's it. That depends. I haven't played WoW in a while, but in competitive (ranked) PvP, if you lost there was a definite effect. If you lost a lot, the effect could be fairly significant. Further, if you lost a match, you gained nothing (or virtually nothing). Full loot is more psychological than of any real benefit to the gameplay, because most items are easily and readily replaced, assuming you don't fly what you can't afford to lose. When you are making 20-40 mil an hour just running L4s, what's a loss of a frigate, cruiser or even a battlecruiser? Statistically you might spend more time flying around looking for someone to blow you up than to make the ISK to replace the ship, especially if you factor in insurance. So what does full loot REALLY accomplish? The winner gets some random stuff off of your boat to sell and buy things he wants. In another MMO, he'd get points which he could then use to buy stuff he wants. Difference? None, really. Except for the psychological aspect and the "I haz your stuff!" chestbeating.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.11 21:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Jame Jarl Retief Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief on 11/03/2011 21:05:35 Originally by: Awesome Possum As for WOW PVP, who cares? You die, you don't lose gear, you don't even have to repair like a pve death... you res and go kill/die again. That's it. That depends. I haven't played WoW in a while, but in competitive (ranked) PvP, if you lost there was a definite effect. If you lost a lot, the effect could be fairly significant. Further, if you lost a match, you gained nothing (or virtually nothing). Agree, once you start playing serious ranked pvp in wow winning and losing means as much if as it does in eve. In some ways it means less in eve because you can choose to use a ship you can afford to lose, in wow you can't afford to lose any matches.



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