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jamesira
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:13:00 -
[1]
I am about to start a training schedule for the next 35 days to fit and fly a T2 fit harbinger.
I wanna know if its capable of doing level 4's with decent efficiency?
Most of tha time spent in that 35 days is laser skills. Would I be better of just goin straight for T2 large guns and skills to fit an apoc well. Or can I do level 4's fairly easily in a harbi?
I will be in level 4's in a week or so depending on if I play or play something else while I train.
I am doing missions currently in amarr space and really plan on staying there.
I know the harbi is a nice pvp boat which Ienjoy pvp as well. I have mostly been training for pvp in frigs.
Will it be easier to get an apoc fit well after I get the harbi T2ed up or will it still be a long train?
I guess when I get home from work and can actually plug into evemon for a preperly fit apoc to see what skills overlap ( if any ) . Anyway advice is always welcome.
Btw I have focused maily on gallente till now but I don't like being pidgeonholed into drone boats to be effective in pvp and I love amarr ships. I can already fly a domi but not fit well enough to warrant me buying and fitting one as I can use the myrm more effectively currently.
T2 large stuff is a commitment so I havnt gotten most any of those skills past level 2 or 3. I can fly gall frigs T2 fit except for mwd or ab and e war stuff. That is also a portion of the 35 day train for the harbi.
Edit.. I also wouldn't mind some fits posted as my plan for the harbi is from a pvp setup.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:16:00 -
[2]
Harby has problem even tanking the harder lvl4s, aside from dps. Train for BS before doing lvl4s. Amar bs with t1 tank can easily handle em/heat rats, t1 beams also go through them at decent pace.
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jamesira
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: jamesira on 14/03/2011 15:42:05
 Originally by: Goose99
Harby has problem even tanking the harder lvl4s, aside from dps. Train for BS before doing lvl4s. Amar bs with t1 tank can easily handle em/heat rats, t1 beams also go through them at decent pace.
Nice thankyou. I can fit most T2 on cruiser and BC size armor tanks already reppers and hardeners anyway for sure.
T2 large reppers I havnt looked into yet for skills needed to fit them.
About how long does it take to fit T2 large guns about a month in gun skills?
I wasn't gonna worry about small guns for amarr yet as I like gallente frig size stuff but cruisers is where I started noticing how it sucks to have slow ships and need to be up close and personal to actually hi anything with good turret dps. Lol hell iuse AC's on the myrms I fly.
But I am goin amarr for long term and I think iwould max small AC's before lasers and get minnie frig skills up so ican use rifters.
But that is way later. I am 1 day from interceptor 4 for my ranis. I am excited to do some fleet warfare in it or an ares for tackle duty.!
But ok so BS for lv 4's.
Hmm still wonder if its worth it to train up a harbi T2 first maybe except the laser specializations themselves for T2 mediums and just jump straight to large lasers after the harbi is good to go.
I'm looking for shortest route to a good T2 fit BS but also want a harbi for pvp effectiveness first cause I tend to pvp a good bit now as skills train. And workin through level 3s as I go for cash here and there.
Anyone know how long of a train it is from a T2 fit harby to a T2 fit apoc?
Edit.... this forum sux so hard trying to use an android phone to post with]
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:32:00 -
[4]
more efficient to just train BS for lvl 4's. Getting those level 4/5 skills for t2's is just not worth the time since the harbi is far from good for doing lvl 4's.
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BlackSparrowHawk
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:43:00 -
[5]
Harby is a well balanced ship - and therefore you won't be able to take it into l4's (which is designed more for BS's in terms of t1 ships). In my opinion its one of the most balanced ships.... unlike something like drake which you can more or less do anything in the whole of EVE with (even a blind man can see its not broken). I just think drake is overpowered and unbalanced when it comes to tanking.... either that, or the harby should be buffed. Particularly when it comes to pve.
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jamesira
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:00:00 -
[6]
Well I guess BS training it is.
Lol u speak of drakes and that is what I am easy modeing in level 3s right now but its so damn boring.
Apoc here I come :)
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Xai Rayna
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:13:00 -
[7]
T2 large guns will take more than a month as the large turret skill itself is a rank 5 skill.
I'm not sure why people think you absolutely have to fit T2 everything to be successful.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xai Rayna
T2 large guns will take more than a month as the large turret skill itself is a rank 5 skill.
I'm not sure why people think you absolutely have to fit T2 everything to be successful.
You don't have to always fit T2 to be successful. But when it comes to pulse lasers, well, you kinda do.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 14/03/2011 23:11:24
I fly 99% Amarr ships. I'm not an expert, but I've been around the block long enough to fly and lose a few harbs :)
The harby has tanking issues. More specifically, active tanking issues. I've learned, that with other races battlecruisers (myrm, drake, cane), you can set a good active tank and lose dps, or you can set high dps and lose a tank. With the Harb, you can set a high buffer tank and high dps, but once said tank is gone your in trouble. This makes it excell at fleet warfare (small and large) but not so much for missions.
You're not gonna out DPS a DPS fit cane, and you wont out tank a Drake. But if you need a fast fleet ship, with a hell-of-a punch and enough tank to survive until you can get RR'd? Look for nothing less then A Harbinger.
EDIT: o and the APoc rocks for missions. it's easy to set up a dual rep apoc that can tank pretty much any lvl 4.
You're gonna get frustrated when it comes to angels, though. Angels have a high em/therm resist so angel misions take a while longer. This is when its nice to have friends.
I love amar ships though, they're great in any situation. If you ever wanna look like the 'bad-a$$' in a mission fleet, bring a dps fit geddon. fit w/ heat sinks, and once someone else has the agro, go in watch any and all rats melt before you.
and yes, T2 lasers are a must...the damage difference between t1 and t2 are very noticable.
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Mikalya
Amarr
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.03.15 00:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: NinjaSpud
and yes, T2 lasers are a must...the damage difference between t1 and t2 are very noticable.
Don't forget range too.
T2 pulses on an Apoc can easily melt things at 50km while still hitting the smaller stuff at 15 km. It also fields enough drones to get the really small annoying things or ships with high EM resists.
The Cap boost it got a couple of years ago really made it a nice ship for PvE; lots of cap, high recharge rates, plenty of grid and CPU plus range bonus so its "short range" weapons will hit any mission rat without chasing it down.
Works great.
-
The PitBoss:
AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work |
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.15 00:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mikalya
Originally by: NinjaSpud
and yes, T2 lasers are a must...the damage difference between t1 and t2 are very noticable.
Don't forget range too.
T2 pulses on an Apoc can easily melt things at 50km while still hitting the smaller stuff at 15 km. It also fields enough drones to get the really small annoying things or ships with high EM resists.
The Cap boost it got a couple of years ago really made it a nice ship for PvE; lots of cap, high recharge rates, plenty of grid and CPU plus range bonus so its "short range" weapons will hit any mission rat without chasing it down.
Works great.
The question is between harby or t1 fit BS. Harby can't do lvl4s, regardless of fit. T2 large guns take a month or more of training. Better to first boost BS to 3 or 4, which will do more for far less time. T1 beams are fine for lvl4s on amar rats, much more viable than other racial t1 guns in missions.
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Headerman
Minmatar
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Headerman on 15/03/2011 02:25:08
Tech 2 large guns are simply awesome. lasers or projectiles (that i know of). They are definitely worth training for, but not at the expense of other skills first. I started using large T2 projectiles at about 17m SPs, and quickly got AC and Arty specs to 4 after that. Coupled with AWU to 4, it makes fitting them a breeze too.
Worth aiming for, but not worth sacrificing other skills for.
BSs are easily the best ships to use for L4's as well, short of a tengu or an ishtar.
When you first jump into one though, start aligning to your station asap, just in case. And put your drones out too (lights), they will be handy.
To get T2 fits onto it though, you may need to skill up armour repairing another level. Everything else translates over without further skilling, except for the guns of course. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:42:00 -
[13]
Yes, the Harby can do L4s.
No, it can't do them efficiently.
The problem is that you can't get sufficient tank/gank ratio while still maintaining the minimum tank required to survive to begin with.
By that I mean: yes, you can make it survive, but the damage output will beà ehmà a bit anemic at that point. Alternatively, you can make it kill things at a decent pace, but your tank will only let you survive a select few missions if you do it that way. Unlike, say, the Myrm or Drake, you can't have it both ways.
That said, if you ditch the "efficiency" requirement, it can actually be fun to use in L4s for pretty much that reason: skew it towards doing good damage, and then do everything you can to mitigate damage by actually flying the thing. Your income will be laughable, though.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
jamesira
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Posted - 2011.03.15 11:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: jamesira on 15/03/2011 11:56:49
I plugged a apoc into evemon last night from battleclinic. One set up for all t2 stuff and without the training for the BS to 4 skill I am looking at around 80 days!!!! So almost 3 months from today to fit a T2 apoc... holy crap batman lol. I can get into a standard T1 fit apoc/geddon in about 3 weeks. That's with getting the bs skill up to 4 I believe. 9 days for the modules and then whatever it takes to train frigs from 3 to 4 then cruisers to 4. Man I wish I had started as training amarr instead of faillente. Don't get me wrong they have a niche but not one I enjoy playing.
I am still on the fence. I think I am gonna train the harbi up first just for the fun of it. And then I won't be very far from getting a zealot anyway. Hell I may train into a zealot first. Since I have Assault ships 4 anyway I just need a couple skills to 5 yet maybe 2 to get into a zealot and the skills to T2 fit the harby would also go for the zealot as well if I am not mistaken
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.03.15 12:32:00 -
[15]
A t1 fitted BS still outperforms a t2 fitted harbinger.
Only thing you might need t2 for are t2 pulse (but only IF you want to use a pulse apoc for missioning) and t2 drones (wich hardly require extra training). For the rest the meta 4 versions are pretty much just as good, and there is the faction choice.
So just get yourself a nice abaddon wich does fine with low skills and put some beams on it.
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jamesira
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Posted - 2011.03.15 12:59:00 -
[16]
I can already field T2 small and medium drones :)
So that's not an issue. I can probably get into a low sp abadon in about 2 weeks.
I will probably low sp an abadon to start running level 4s then maybe by the time I get to level 5s I can T2 fit it lol
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.03.15 14:57:00 -
[17]
Whatever you do, do not use that Zealot to solo a lvl 4. You might get alpha'd . A zealots tank consists of a DCU and...love.
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2011.03.15 17:10:00 -
[18]
If you are somewhat new to EVE, you must learn one fundamental truth: CCP doesn't believe in play balancing. Using amarr for PVE is futile.
You must accept the inevitable. Train Caldari for PVE and Minmatar for PVP. If you deviate from this plan you will be sorry and end up crosstraining them anyway later in your career. The only variable is how much SP you waste until you come to this conclusion.
Because Gallante are the Washington Generals of EVE. |
Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:00:00 -
[19]
Not quite true, Amarr excells in amarr territory, though it might help to have projectiles trained to a bare minimum for the odd mission in which EM/Therm is worthless.
As for the OP, it might help to use BS, even if only for the larger dronebay your gallente training would love to use.
-------------------------------------
I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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Headerman
Minmatar
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: jamesira
I can already field T2 small and medium drones :)
So that's not an issue. I can probably get into a low sp abadon in about 2 weeks.
I will probably low sp an abadon to start running level 4s then maybe by the time I get to level 5s I can T2 fit it lol
Forget the Abaddon, it's cap recharge is horrible lol
The Apoc would be way better for you. It may take 80 days to fit it with all T2 stuff, but how long would it take for Meta 4 modules?
Aim for them. Once you have all of them, work on your cap skills, then start working on each module to fit a T2 and you will only get better
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.03.16 08:24:00 -
[21]
for the future, also consider Absolution.
easily 840 dps with conflagration at 10km optimal, with scorch 650 at 30km optimal.
also tanks well enough (not that you need to tank for too long with this dps) |
NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.03.16 15:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
for the future, also consider Absolution.
easily 840 dps with conflagration at 10km optimal, with scorch 650 at 30km optimal.
also tanks well enough (not that you need to tank for too long with this dps)
I Miss my abso.
DAMN YOU WORMHOLE SPACE WARPY CLOAKERS
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.17 03:47:00 -
[23]
I gotta see that absolution fit with super dps and tank
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Jack Mayhem
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Posted - 2011.03.17 07:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mikalya
Originally by: NinjaSpud
and yes, T2 lasers are a must...the damage difference between t1 and t2 are very noticable.
Don't forget range too.
T2 pulses on an Apoc can easily melt things at 50km while still hitting the smaller stuff at 15 km. It also fields enough drones to get the really small annoying things or ships with high EM resists.
The Cap boost it got a couple of years ago really made it a nice ship for PvE; lots of cap, high recharge rates, plenty of grid and CPU plus range bonus so its "short range" weapons will hit any mission rat without chasing it down.
Works great.
Why do you people talk nonsense. T2 lasers ARE NOT needed for successfully doing L4s. I did both with beam abaddon and pulse apoc (with 3x locus coordinator rigs) with no problems whatsoever.
Don't overcomplicate things.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.03.17 15:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 17/03/2011 15:42:05
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 17/03/2011 15:41:44
Originally by: Songbird
I gotta see that absolution fit with super dps and tank
I'll share mine with ya. Keep in mind this is my first abso, it worked very well but I'm sure it's not perfect. I've never pluged it into EFT (so I can't tell ya exact numbers for DPS/tank), I used it in WH space to kill sleepers. When I got ganked, it was tanking 3 sleeper cruisers, 1 sleeper BS, a Proteus and a pilgrim (until the pilgrim drained my cap lol)
*in hind sight, I'm going to fit for more of a PVP setup next time w/ a cap injector instead of rechargers*
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Heavy Pulse II: Scorch, Imperial Navy Multi
Energized Adaptaive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptaive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Rep II
DCU II
Armor Thermic HArdner II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
10mn After Burner
Medium Capacitor Controll Cicruit
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump
Keep in mind this is for WH space, it worked well but doesn't have a good PVP setup. I have replaced the thermic harnder w/ another heat sink before...the dps rocked but the tank needed more resistances vs sleepers.
If I where to do it for pvp: For better tank I'd ditch the CCC and add another nano pump. I've also heard of people ditching the Thermic hardner for a 800mm plate or anotehr rep (can anyone verrify this?)
It would be prudent to ditch the two cap rechargers for an injector and a point/web/ecm whatever your fleet needs (assuming you're gonna go for pvp not pve)
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Chronasis
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Posted - 2011.03.17 17:36:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Chronasis on 17/03/2011 17:37:09
I am doing level 4 fairly easily in an Abaddon with T1 pulse turrets. My large turret skill is level 4 and Amarr BS is level 4. I do have T2 everything else.
Too busy working on skills for Absolution and Damnation to focus on BS skills for mission running currently.
I ahve considered trying out a armageddon, but I don't want to touch an Apocalypse because I think they are too ugly.
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Jim Pansen2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.03.17 18:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jim Pansen2 on 17/03/2011 18:22:29
T1 guns are ok for starters, compared to a Harb a fitted Apoc does a bit more damage, has a lot more range and tanks better.
[Apocalypse, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
You can replace the T2 hardners/EANM with faction ones(not this expensive) if you lack the skills for the T2(I did this to back in the days).
Also skip the guristas assault mission with the apoc, takes forever to tickle them to death with low dps and her high EM resists.
Edit: If your skills get better, consider a puls Abaddon. The extra dps are quite nice for L4 and the range is still ok with 2 TCs and 1 T2 Locus rig.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:35:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 28/03/2011 07:40:37
Originally by: Songbird
I gotta see that absolution fit with super dps and tank
not too cheap but ok for lvl4s
lows: 3 heat sinks (t2 ones, I am cheap), 1 adaptive (or active) hardener, 2 active hardeners, deadspace repper (in fact, 'meditation' will do in most cases, I need to use it since my Beams leave not enough grid for the A-type repper I have, but there are other options for this case)
rigs: 2 CCC II
meds: ABII, Large Cap Battery II (or peroxide if short of CPU/grid), Cap Recharger II if you absolutely need cap stable, or tracking comp for additional range or something else you prefer.
as of weapons, I used to fit Pulses but the range is too limited and the 800+ dps achievable with Conflags (or navy multifreqs, not a big difference) is at 7-10km so BS rats die from scorch long before I get to that range. With Scorch I got about 640 dps up to 30km.
Now I use t2 beams, they give 620 dps at 17km optimal with imperial navy multifreqs and 380 dps at 60 km with auroras. I like it so far, although there's a problem with frigs that are too fast to track with beams, but drones help with them if they're still not dead after MWD approach.
Oh and I have a maxed warfare spec alt always boosting so I am not sure if this would work as well without one :) but I almost never need to run the repper 100% of time so I guess it should be fine with cap stable setup w/o booster.
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