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Mister Kwong	Posted - 2011.03.15 20:26:00 - [1] Minnies are fast and succeed at skirmish warfare. Gallente succeed with their massive armor and melt-in-your-face guns. Everyone says that Gallente ships need to be buffed be it through their rails, increase speed, or whatever. What I'm asking is there a way to CURRENTLY take what Gallente is good at and counter Minmatar and other ships during small gang combat and still succeed? Gallente ships on their own, cannot catch Minmatar ships. However, can't you introduce 1-2 non Gallente ships into your fleet and that will balance things during combat?
Jimmy Doe POS Consultants Group LLC	Posted - 2011.03.15 20:30:00 - [2] Lachesis with scrams is a good way to shutdown Minnie with MWD's. If they are using AB's they will still get away if you cant get in there and put webs on. An Eos can help if they have good info-warfare skills and ganglinks to increase the range of your webs/scrams.
Spiritum Mortiferum	Posted - 2011.03.15 22:16:00 - [3] I think you'll find that to get those web/scram bonuses you'll need Skirmish Links - ie interdiction maneuvers
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.15 22:27:00 - [4] Its also the fact that Gallente barely out DPS the other races while being slower, having less range and less EHP than them that makes people want a buff. I'll give you a comparison, 2 ships that 2 of my characters can fly almost perfectly. [Armageddon, Gank] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Internal Force Field Array I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Berserker II x5 1,112 DPS, 15+10 range(Can be instantly swapped for 45+10 with 939 DPS), 112k EHP and 792m/s with MWD on. Time for Gallente [Megathron, Gank] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Berserker II x5 1,193 DPS, 4.5+13km range, 101.6k EHP, and goes 822m/s. Mind you we are comparing a tier 1 Amarr BS to a tier 2 Gallente BS but the figures don't lie, unfortunately.
Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.15 22:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Fredfredbug4 on 15/03/2011 22:42:27 Originally by: Mister Kwong Minnies are fast and succeed at skirmish warfare. Gallente succeed with their massive armor and melt-in-your-face guns. Everyone says that Gallente ships need to be buffed be it through their rails, increase speed, or whatever. What I'm asking is there a way to CURRENTLY take what Gallente is good at and counter Minmatar and other ships during small gang combat and still succeed? Gallente ships on their own, cannot catch Minmatar ships. However, can't you introduce 1-2 non Gallente ships into your fleet and that will balance things during combat? One word, Drones. Half the Gallente ships are drone boats. With good skills and a few upgrades drones will be able to catch and destroy the fastest of the minmatar fleet. A few strategies with drones are as follows. 1. Simply use a fair mix of drones and guns. Launch Light/ Medium Scout Drones to take out targets from far away while you use blasters to destroy closer targets or use heavy drones to take care of close range and use your rails to snipe long range targets. 2. Use nothing but drones and devote your high slots to drone upgrades. 3. Another interesting thing you could do is make all your drones repair drones. Thus improving one's tank upon their current tank. This makes them very difficult to kill and in the process you can fire your guns or if your helping another person, they can fire their guns and launch their drones. 4. Use other logistic drones to stop minmatar vessels from using their precious MWDs, allowing you to obliterate them. Drones pretty much account for the downsides of gallente ships.
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.15 22:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Fredfredbug4 Edited by: Fredfredbug4 on 15/03/2011 22:42:27 Originally by: Mister Kwong Minnies are fast and succeed at skirmish warfare. Gallente succeed with their massive armor and melt-in-your-face guns. Everyone says that Gallente ships need to be buffed be it through their rails, increase speed, or whatever. What I'm asking is there a way to CURRENTLY take what Gallente is good at and counter Minmatar and other ships during small gang combat and still succeed? Gallente ships on their own, cannot catch Minmatar ships. However, can't you introduce 1-2 non Gallente ships into your fleet and that will balance things during combat? One word, Drones. Half the Gallente ships are drone boats. With good skills and a few upgrades drones will be able to catch and destroy the fastest of the minmatar fleet. A few strategies with drones are as follows. 1. Simply use a fair mix of drones and guns. Launch Light/ Medium Scout Drones to take out targets from far away while you use blasters to destroy closer targets or use heavy drones to take care of close range and use your rails to snipe long range targets. 2. Use nothing but drones and devote your high slots to drone upgrades. 3. Another interesting thing you could do is make all your drones repair drones. Thus improving one's tank upon their current tank. This makes them very difficult to kill and in the process you can fire your guns or if your helping another person, they can fire their guns and launch their drones. 4. Use other logistic drones to stop minmatar vessels from using their precious MWDs, allowing you to obliterate them. Drones pretty much account for the downsides of gallente ships. lolwut. Trolling is bad, mmm'kay? Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Mutant Caldari Stuff And now tell them what happens when a geddon and a mega go head to head smart guy.
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Mutant Caldari on 15/03/2011 23:13:23 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Originally by: Mutant Caldari Stuff And now tell them what happens when a geddon and a mega go head to head smart guy. Depends on both do loltastic damage. Actually, last I checked, Geddon starts out DPS'ing the Mega at, what, 7km? Edit: Spelling is hard. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:20:00 - [9] Yes, and now we start the typical range argument. But assuming your geddon is not fitted with a scram (realistically it wont be) Mega gets point, MWD and web where as the Armageddon does not do to fitting constraints. Were is your 7km now Mr EFT warrior?
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 15/03/2011 23:22:21 Yes, and now we start the typical range argument. But assuming your geddon is not fitted with a scram (realistically it wont be) Mega gets point, MWD and web where as the Armageddon does not do to fitting constraints. Were is your 7km now Mr EFT warrior? Edit: The "LOLtastic" damage that you are referring to is not taking into account damage type VS Volley damage VS resists. Whereas the Geddon stays out of scram range and the Mega's loltastic damage barely hurts him while you are still doing full damage 15km out, 80% damage at 20km. What kind of damage is he doing at 20km, again? Ohwait. Thats past optimal+falloff for the Mega which means he really isn't doing anything. Even Amarr BS can kite a Mega at 20km if only they have a Zor's(Which, well, isn't uncommon if they fly something besides battleships ). So please, try again. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:35:00 - [11] BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue. Most BS fights are gang warfare (at least 3-5), and in those cases the range is a greater concern than 1v1 when switching between targets.
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue. Are you saying its impossible? I'd really like to know. Or are you saying it doesn't happen? If thats the case, that is a moronic statement because it actually does happen. But please, keep thinking that Hybrids are fine while Amarr have better buffers/almost the same DPS/far greater range/instant crystal switching. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.15 23:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 15/03/2011 23:49:09 Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: Eternum Praetorian BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue. Are you saying its impossible? I'd really like to know. Or are you saying it doesn't happen? If thats the case, that is a moronic statement because it actually does happen. But please, keep thinking that Hybrids are fine while Amarr have better buffers/almost the same DPS/far greater range/instant crystal switching. You really like your emoticons don't you? A Geddon kiting a Megathron and scoring an actual kill is just stupid. If you disagree feel free to link your killboard demonstrating an Armageddon killing a Megathron (with a proper build) 1v1. What's wrong? Don't have one because it's only theory craft?
Mutant Caldari Caldari Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 15/03/2011 23:49:09 Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: Eternum Praetorian BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue. Are you saying its impossible? I'd really like to know. Or are you saying it doesn't happen? If thats the case, that is a moronic statement because it actually does happen. But please, keep thinking that Hybrids are fine while Amarr have better buffers/almost the same DPS/far greater range/instant crystal switching. You really like your emoticons don't you? A Geddon kiting a Megathron and scoring an actual kill is just stupid. If you disagree feel free to link your killboard demonstrating an Armageddon killing a Megathron (with a proper build) 1v1. What's wrong? Don't have one because it's only theory craft? Yes, I actually do like that emoticon. I am pro at theory crafting and EFT warrioring because all I do is station spin these days. Also good luck at getting a 1v1 BS fight these days against someone without a Logi/ECM/Booster alt or a blob ready to jump in. I'll take my safe EFT warrioring over the potential to lose some pixels. Oh and btw, you still haven't proven it to be an impossibility. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
Jerika Bodet	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:33:00 - [16] Well Mr. Kwong I hope you're very pleased with yourself, the kids are fighting again!
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:35:00 - [17] You can't prove anything when theory crafting, that's the problem with giving and taking advice on these forums [Oh Wait] Now to the OP. What ship classes are you referring to? If your talking about catching and killing a Vagabond every race has trouble doing that.
Mister Kwong	Posted - 2011.03.16 02:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Jerika Bodet Well Mr. Kwong I hope you're very pleased with yourself, the kids are fighting again! Haha. Should've known better. I'm referring to primarily small gang, which, based on my observations of primarily lowsec warfare, consist of Minnie ships (t1 and t2 variety) and drakes. I'm not interested in engaging in Battleship-class type warfare and slugging it out. Many of my guys are Gallente specced with a dash of Minnie and Caldari.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.16 02:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 15/03/2011 23:49:09 Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: Eternum Praetorian BS kiting other BS? Wow you really are an idiot, but please continue. Are you saying its impossible? I'd really like to know. Or are you saying it doesn't happen? If thats the case, that is a moronic statement because it actually does happen. But please, keep thinking that Hybrids are fine while Amarr have better buffers/almost the same DPS/far greater range/instant crystal switching. You really like your emoticons don't you? A Geddon kiting a Megathron and scoring an actual kill is just stupid. If you disagree feel free to link your killboard demonstrating an Armageddon killing a Megathron (with a proper build) 1v1. What's wrong? Don't have one because it's only theory craft? When do battleship 1 v 1's even happen? Jita undock maybe? Who cares. Highsec 1 v 1s are meaningless. The measure of a battleship is how it performs in a fleet, at least to most pvp players.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.16 02:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/03/2011 02:45:53 Originally by: Mister Kwong I'm referring to primarily small gang, which, based on my observations of primarily lowsec warfare, consist of Minnie ships (t1 and t2 variety) and drakes. Many of my guys are Gallente specced with a dash of Minnie and Caldari. When dealing with BC Hulls, there is simply no beating a good Hurricane or Drake heavy gang. However, logistics ships will make the difference in any encounter. If you have them and the other guys do not you can fly whatever you want into a fight and do extremely well. Regarding Tech 2, vagabonds are good at getting away and rapiers/Huggins are great at keeping ships from deaggressing and crossing stargates. This is why you will see them used so often. Performing a "Rapier Role" with an Arazu/Lachesis is possible, but in my experience it requires a bit more skill then with their Minmatar counterparts. You will hear allot of bad things about the Ishtar, but properly applied there is allot of room for awesomeness there. Especially if you have logistical support in your gang. So Long Story Short: Get into those logis, an Oneiros can fly cap stable (unlike Guardians) and they rep the same amount. Once you have a good strong logistics core you can take a gang of Brutix's into battle and mop the floor with any gang of equal size (and of any race) that lacks comparable logistical support. The trick is to not mix armor and shield tanks because that will defeat the purpose of what your trying to achieve. Originally by: Emperor Cheney When do battleship 1 v 1's even happen? Jita undock maybe? Who cares. Highsec 1 v 1s are meaningless. The measure of a battleship is how it performs in a fleet, at least to most pvp players. And I say PVP in blobs are meaningless, as are 20-30 man gangs where you take orders from an FC like a mindless sheep. Press and click requires no brains and no effort. Alternatively, if a BS performs well 1v1 it will perform just as well 3v3 or 4v4. That is the kind of EVE most PVP'er of decent caliber wish that they were playing.
Tekitha Gallente Shadows Of The Federation R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Get into those logis, an Oneiros can fly cap stable (unlike Guardians) and they rep the same amount. Once you have a good strong logistics core you can take a gang of Brutix's into battle and mop the floor with any gang of equal size (and of any race) that lacks comparable logistical support. The trick is to not mix armor and shield tanks because that will defeat the purpose of what your trying to achieve. and do tell, how exactly are these brutix going to get into range of a nano drake / cane gang? if the fleets are above 12-15 guys in size the drakes / canes will just kite and alpha thru the logistics, or simply disengage and leave. Brutix's will never win! Originally by: Eternum Praetorian And I say PVP in blobs are meaningless, as are 20-30 man gangs where you take orders from an FC like a mindless sheep. Press and click requires no brains and no effort. Alternatively, if a BS performs well 1v1 it will perform just as well 3v3 or 4v4. That is the kind of EVE most PVP'er of decent caliber wish that they were playing and if your patient enough you can still find it. this is just plain nonsense ... In over 2 years of pvp I have never heard of a single 1v1 BS fight that wasnt a pure gank (either probing of a mission runner or a fluke catch / gank on a gate). when is this hypothetical, consensual (starting at a prearranged range) BS 1v1 going to happen? ... there is always a neutral alt or a gang ready in support, to claim otherwise is pure lunacy. and to say that a 20-30 man gang is a blob, or meaningless pvp, or takes no skill, proves nothing other than u are clearly lacking the experience of ever having flown in a decent gang. I'll take ur 30 man (mindless sheep, as u put it) gang and beat them with 10 guys if u really think that player skill makes no difference at that level! Don't believe the hype!
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian And I say PVP in blobs are meaningless, as are 20-30 man gangs where you take orders from an FC like a mindless sheep. Press and click requires no brains and no effort. Alternatively, if a BS performs well 1v1 it will perform just as well 3v3 or 4v4. That is the kind of EVE most PVP'er of decent caliber wish that they were playing and if your patient enough you can still find it. Pretty sure I already know where the Jita undock is, but thanks for the invite!
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:26:00 - [23] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/03/2011 03:32:56 Originally by: Tekitha I'll take ur 30 man (mindless sheep, as u put it) gang and beat them with 10 guys if u really think that player skill makes no difference at that level! Ah 10 man gangs... that would be nice now wouldn't it? Originally by: Tekitha when is this hypothetical, consensual (starting at a prearranged range) BS 1v1 going to happen? You fight around stargates and stations, you tend to be within ranges of short range weapons with one MWD pulse most of the time (unless you blob) It's not like people have the balls to fight in belts unless they vastly outnumber you. Originally by: Tekitha and do tell, how exactly are these brutix going to get into range of a nano drake / cane gang? No one said they were nano'd? And if they were, a Nano'd Brutix isn't so bad a ship that there is no potential there. You know... player skill? @ Emperor Cheney I am a huge fan of Kil2's epic videos, ever seen them? Just because you lack originality and imagination does not mean that everyone else does too. Just "Most" people do, not all.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:32:00 - [24] Some day, maybe I'll be clever enough to sit outside a station undock. Someday. . . (I am making a sad face) Look, man, in any case, 1 v 1 performance does not equal fleet performance. It just doesn't. It's two entirely different conversations. Wake me when PL has a fleet doctrine revolving around Vindicators.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:44:00 - [25] So that's a no then? I suggest you google them, they are epic.
Tekitha Gallente Shadows Of The Federation R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Tekitha on 16/03/2011 03:57:06 Edited by: Tekitha on 16/03/2011 03:55:57 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Ah 10 man gangs... that would be nice now wouldn't it? not sure what this means tbh, I assume it's some kind of underhanded attempt at an insult, still, makes no sense. Originally by: Eternum Praetorian You fight around stargates and stations, you tend to be within ranges of short range weapons with one MWD pulse most of the time (unless you blob) It's not like people have the balls to fight in belts unless they vastly outnumber you. highlighted the important part, u still didnt really explain when a BS 1v1 is ever going to happen under (relatively) even terms. Originally by: Eternum Praetorian No one said they were nano'd? And if they were, a Nano'd Brutix isn't so bad a ship that there is no potential there. You know... player skill? ur original post said that a gang of brutix's + logistics would kill any gang of similar size without logistics, I was pointing out that that simply isnt true ... ok sure it might beat another armor BC gang with no logistics, but honestly, when was the last time u saw an armor BC gang without logistics in low / nullsec? ... I think I saw one about a year ago but it got soloed by a vaga (last bit is sarcasm btw, but it illustrates the point nicely!) and ur suggesting a nano / shield brutix gang (with or without logistics) could stand up to a drake / cane gang? pretty laughable. anyway, I'm not in the habit of arguing with idiots, they drag u down to there level and beat u with experience. Unlikely I'll be posting in this thread again unless something really interesting is said. Enjoy ur high sec BS 1v1's vs corp mates, I'm sure they are great fun Don't believe the hype!
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.16 03:57:00 - [27] ^ You don't read very well do you?
Aznwithbeard Minmatar OMGROFLSTOMP	Posted - 2011.03.16 08:16:00 - [28] for all the ranting about solo bs and bs 1v1 not being viable... there sure are a lot of fraps being taken on that subject. Anytime ive seen gallente BS on the field, they molest everything they come across, or get melted my blobbage. midslots for mwd scram web? Gunna control range on w/e other BS you find. oh wait i forgot solo pvp is dead /me hides again.
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.03.17 05:29:00 - [29] What's with all this Megathron nonsense? Everyone knows the premier Gallente battleship is the DOMINIX! Easier to tank, much better damage projection, more flexible, and it's cheaper.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.17 14:24:00 - [30] Nice Fit I'll take it! Link meh a shield fit that works and you get a great big Brutor kiss.
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.17 16:25:00 - [31] Edited by: X Gallentius on 17/03/2011 16:53:45 You counter Minmatar hulls with e-war. With Gallente that means primarily ECM drones, and if you have the mislots tracking disruptors (range script). They will either have to engage at your optimals or GTFO. You have the same option. So if it's me and I've got a T1 cruiser gang running, it's Thoraxes with a couple light shield tanked Celestises (massive number of midslots) with webs or tds, or perhaps (remote) sensor boosters to help catch Minmatar when they jump. Release the ec- hounds and have at it. If they nano* off the gate, then pull drones and go find another fight. And this is pretty much the strategy you have to use against all nano* gangs since if you chase after them they'll destroy your tackle (and you) before you can get point. These evil bastards feed off of your Gallente "balls to the walls charge!" attitude you've developed over the years because you have the courage to brawl that they sorely lack. Don't feed them!
Tanaka Reina Caldari Happy Penquins	Posted - 2011.03.18 13:27:00 - [32] fix webber drones and gallente is saved <3
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.18 15:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Mister Kwong Originally by: Jerika Bodet Well Mr. Kwong I hope you're very pleased with yourself, the kids are fighting again! Haha. Should've known better. I'm referring to primarily small gang, which, based on my observations of primarily lowsec warfare, consist of Minnie ships (t1 and t2 variety) and drakes. I'm not interested in engaging in Battleship-class type warfare and slugging it out. Many of my guys are Gallente specced with a dash of Minnie and Caldari. You cross train. That is what I did, that is what everybody that flown them once did(and didn't quite yet) and this is what you and your buddy's will do sooner or later. There is a reason low sec looks today like this(close range sucks, people lack balls) and a reason why you do see almost no blaster hulls out there(again close range sucks, they are terrible at close range and pretty useless against 95% of your targets). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Waterboard	Posted - 2011.03.18 15:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Tanaka Reina fix webber drones and gallente is saved <3 Gallente would be giving up one of there advantages just so they can play on equal footing to others. Fixing blasters will do more good for balance that webber drones. Also whats stopping other ships using webber drones, then your back to square one again. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
Roosterton The 57th Overlanders	Posted - 2011.03.19 15:53:00 - [35] The earlier posted Domi fit in this thread is good, but if you really want to pin down, suck the life out of, and NOMNOMNOM those Minmatar nano ships, a neut Domi can't be beat. You can't Microwarpdrive with two/three heavy neuts on you -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three. Originally by: Tarminic OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
Millia Severasse	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:21:00 - [36] ITT: More minnie pilots defend the fact their ships are OP. If I had 5isk for every thread like this i'd be richer than Chribba. Wake up people, dictating range is king. Short-range brawling is dead. Rails (what should be the alternative to blasters) are not viable in the least due to pathetic damage and tracking. Short of a re-vamp to hybids on the order of what projectiles recieved before, nothing is going to change.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:27:00 - [37] Edited by: chatgris on 19/03/2011 19:27:16 Originally by: Millia Severasse ITT: More minnie pilots defend the fact their ships are OP. Minmatar ships aren't OP. This comes from someone who's flown minmatar ships but prefers other races hulls. It's gallente that's underpowered, there's fairly good balance otherwise.
Millia Severasse	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:34:00 - [38] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 19/03/2011 19:27:16 Originally by: Millia Severasse ITT: More minnie pilots defend the fact their ships are OP. Minmatar ships aren't OP. This comes from someone who's flown minmatar ships but prefers other races hulls. It's gallente that's underpowered, there's fairly good balance otherwise. Across the all t1 hulls i'd argue to the contrary. Including every little niche and gang setup possible with every hull (excluding cost-efficiency and other variables) you could have a point. What makes gallente and caldari so terrible is their utter reliance on specific setups and more often than not very pricey fits to compete with their minnie and to some extent amarr counterparts.
Kora Zilesti	Posted - 2011.03.19 22:06:00 - [39] Scram lachesis + rapier makes for a devastating combo, especially against Minnies. Completely negates their mobility.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.20 20:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Millia Severasse Across the all t1 hulls i'd argue to the contrary. Including every little niche and gang setup possible with every hull (excluding cost-efficiency and other variables) you could have a point. What makes gallente and caldari so terrible is their utter reliance on specific setups and more often than not very pricey fits to compete with their minnie and to some extent amarr counterparts. I'd still argue my point. t1 hulls: Frigates: rifter is a beast, but a well fitted and piloted merlin can fight one to a standstill. There's also the griffin, a powerful frigate. If we're talking a fleet of frigates, I would take a fleet of caldari ones over a fleet of pure minmatar. Destroyers: No argument with the thrasher. Cruiser: Rupture is a beast 1v1, but take the fleet scenario again - I'd rather caracals + bb's over an equal number of ruptures in a fleet. Battlecruiser: Drake IMO is superior to the cane. It's a very close match 1v1, but as the numbers on both sides scale up, I prefer the drake until you get to alpha numbers. Battleship: The caldari lineup isn't slacking, though I would admit the minmatar lineup have the advantage due to the massive alpha of artillery. But it's a slim margin - ravens have very good dps, damage projection and damage selection. Scorps are very good in specific roles. Anyways, overall, I really don't see minmatar being that OP.

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