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T2 Ammo - Amarr - pretty Screwed Over TBFH

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Opertone Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.	Posted - 2011.03.17 07:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Burnharder Imperial Navy Crystals ftw. quoted for truth... I use Caldari Navy juggernaut torpedoes. They come by easy, thanks to LP store. However tech 2 missiles are hard to find. 4 different flavours, 5000 of EM, 5000, of THERM, 5000 of of EXP, 5000 of KIN, 5000 of KIN javelin, 5000 of THERM javelin, 5000 of EM javelin, 5000 of EXP javelin. Then CN and RAGE. Torpedoes are the Biggest, the slowest and take a lot of space. You only load 20 Torpedoes per launcher. Very annoying. Don't whine, use faction or t2 ammo, it is worth it. Or switch to dominix with sentry and leave your ammo woes behind.
Opertone Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.	Posted - 2011.03.17 07:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Everyone's Mother If price is your #1 complaint, you really haven't given the issue enough thought. Yes, amarr t2 ammo is expensive. But at about 1000 volleys per crystal it's not far off from the cost of other t2 ammos. The real issue is the way they interface. Crystals will only stack if they've never been loaded. They can't be repackaged, they can't be repaired. They take up a ton of visual space in your cargo/hangar. And worst of all, there's no way to tell how much damage a crystal has. You might have 14 units of scorch M in your cargo. Each one takes up it's own spot or line in your inventory, depending on how you view your items. There's no way to know which crystals have 998 shots left and which ones have 212 shots left. So invariably you load your guns unevenly. Have you ever broken JUST ONE crystal in a group of guns? your group turns off, and you can't right click -> reload. You have to open your cargo and drag the crystals onto your guns. It's a giant pain in the ass. wow I never knew that. Interesting. How about nanite paste can repair crystals? or maybe crystals can be merged.
Phoebus ApolloX	Posted - 2011.03.17 07:13:00 - [33] Edited by: Phoebus ApolloX on 17/03/2011 07:14:12 Get a friend who has the skills to make t2 ammo (or learn the skills yourself), bankroll a very large batch of the ammo, keep a small but sizeable portion for yourself, sell the remainder at an overall profit - split the profit with person who helped build it (or keep it if you skilled up the t2 production skill yourself). For instance I had 150k batches of void m produced, kept 40k and sold the 110k at a pretty good overall price and made money on the whole deal for myself and my indy buddy who ran the jobs for me. Sure it requires a little work, but you get the ammo you need and you get paid for the trouble.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2011.03.17 07:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Gnulpie Buy a drake if he has good gunnery skills and no missile skills, to match t2 medium pulses dps he has to spend at least a month in missile/shield training. i tried drake, dps was so terrible i sold it right away. only way I get comparable dps is in tengu with HAMs, but the range of those is barely 30km which is easily done with scorch and 2 tracking comps which does 650 dps versus tengu's 500 with my skills. it can be raised to 600 with faction ammo but it's so expensive a mission won't pay for it. And that's with kinetic bonus, so with other damage type dps would be even more pathetic. so in order to make tengu better than abso I have to train t2 heavies (since there is no point in HAMs with their range, gun boat is better for that range since there are no dps lost to defenders) and all the missile support skills to 4-5.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.17 07:26:00 - [35] Here's something else to consider. Amarrian ammo doesn't come in units of less than 1 crystal. That seems obvious, but consider what it represents. Let's say your going to suicide gank someone in high sec. Autocannons? No problem, 10 units of faction/t2 ammo in each gun is plenty. Keep overhead low right? Lasers? You have no choice but to load hundreds of shots of ammo IN EACH GUN. A gank cruiser may have 5000 shots worth of ammo destroyed by concord. that's more than most pvpers will bring with them on roams. While we're on the subject of roams: I'm a big fan of the Harbinger. When I go out on roams, I keep scorch loaded in my guns, and an extra set in my cargo. I mean. . . can you imagine how ****ed I'd be if my crystals broke mid roam? 7 guns on the harby, about 1000 shots per crystal, two sets of crystals . . . you're talking 14000 shots on your person while you're out roaming around. To be fair, it makes sense that crystals can't be repaired. And it makes sense that a crystal is a single indivisible unit. But jesus christ it's a hassle.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.17 08:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind on 16/03/2011 15:53:50 why waste isk using T2 crystals for missions? T1 crystals are just fine for missions. If Hybrid, Missile, Projectile users used T2 or faction to mission with it would probably be even more expensive than T2 crystals. Its definitely T1 ammo for PvE and T2/Faction for PvP. How little you know, young troll ?
Zorash Xanten	Posted - 2011.03.17 10:30:00 - [37] Imperial Navy MF and Scorch, that is all.
Ay Liz Sacred Templars RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.03.17 10:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Ay Liz on 17/03/2011 10:52:02 Get a Paladin or Nightmare. You will only need 4 crystals for the damage output of 8. Problem solved. And don't you think the ability to change ammo on the fly and no reloading at all should reflect in a slightly higher price? I didn't even do the math here so i'm not sure and i don't care. My Nightmare got me billions already and i am still using my first set of Imperial Navy MF..
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.03.17 10:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Mister Smithington Let's say your going to suicide gank someone in high sec.... Lasers? You must be one of those stupid people mother warned me about ARDEN FOR CSM! he griefs carebears in hi-sec for fun!
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.17 13:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Zorash Xanten Imperial Navy MF and Scorch, that is all. pretty much sums it up. the only change lasers need is some kind of buff to actually use the other 8 types. I've always liked the look and range of Radio, but the damage loss is too much to bear. Perhaps if longer range lasers also gave you a bonus to rate of fire or something like that. then people might use them more. OP, I've got a fix for you. Seeing as how you need cheeper laser crystals, everyone stop flying amarr ships. therefore the price will fall and you can be happy.

Jaik7	Posted - 2011.03.17 14:03:00 - [41] whoa! did you just ask for a laser, the most pure form of energy known to man, to do kinetic and explosive damage? i will support if you can give me a physiclly possible reason why energy would do kinetic damage.
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.17 14:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Liang Nuren I refuse to believe anyone could be so stupid on accident. It must be a troll. -Liang /signed.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.17 15:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Skippermonkey Originally by: Mister Smithington Let's say your going to suicide gank someone in high sec.... Lasers? You must be one of those stupid people mother warned me about You missed the whole point, but GG anyway. Either way, for a character who's specializing in amarr, the occasional empire gank is not really worth half a month of cross training.
Irani Firecam Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Jaik7 whoa! did you just ask for a laser, the most pure form of energy known to man, to do kinetic and explosive damage? i will support if you can give me a physiclly possible reason why energy would do kinetic damage. Yeah, because only one form of energy exists, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy#Forms_of_energy
Jason1138	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:08:00 - [45] "After two missions i need to replace the crystals again. And there selling for nearly one million per unit. " F'ing LOL. try firing T2 or navy from a CNR or Mach. expensive ammo is expensive, and using it costs money. crystals aren't any different than any other type of ammo in that way if it bothers you so much, use navy instead
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Irani Firecam Originally by: Jaik7 whoa! did you just ask for a laser, the most pure form of energy known to man, to do kinetic and explosive damage? i will support if you can give me a physiclly possible reason why energy would do kinetic damage. Yeah, because only one form of energy exists, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy#Forms_of_energy Confirming that amarr need lava lasers that use geothermic energy and deal omni damage.
Junkie Babe	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:27:00 - [47] My this is a surprise, Amarr has many gripes but ammo costs isn't one of them. Here we go T1 is indistructble meaning once you bought a set they are completly free. Faction 10% more damage than T1 Crystal health 1 Volatility Damage 0.00025 HP Volatility Chance 1% Can go Volatile 4000 times Life span 4000 - 400,000 shots T2 Crystal health 1 Volatility Damage 0.01 HP Volatility Chance 0.1% Can go Volatile 100 times Life span 100 - 10,000 shots Even with T2 it's still very cheap and Amarr faction ammo is the cheapest of all the races. Since Volatile chance is random and small , medium , etc all have the same health / Volatile damage and chance since small lasers shoot faster they will burn through crystals quicker than larger lasors as they fire more shots in the same ammount of time and have more chances to hit that Volatile chance. Thank you Regards Junkie babe
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:39:00 - [48] Originally by: Jaik7 whoa! did you just ask for a laser, the most pure form of energy known to man, to do kinetic and explosive damage? i will support if you can give me a physiclly possible reason why energy would do kinetic damage. It's posible to get Kinetic and Explosive damage from a laser I'll prove it. Electricity has been known to do a form of kinetic damaeg. After all, Kinetic damage is just the inertia of object A striking Object B. I'm sure we've all had or heard stories of people touching a live circut and getting knocked on their ass. Ever heard of an *arch flash? This phenomenon occurs when a conductive object or person is in contact with (or too close to) a high-amp source. This event gets its name because of the high-voltage short circuit that arcs towards the object or person. The extreme temperature of this arc super-heats the surrounding air up to 4 times the surface temperature of the sun. This creates a pressure shock-wave strong enough to melt nearby metal, break bones, and even hurl the human body through the air away from the source. Source 1 Source2 So, in a way, electricity can 'hit' you with a measurable force, other then thermal. So this may lead you to ask, what are Amarr ships shooting? EVE Lasers do EM and Thermal damage. Real lasers do mainly Thermal damage. Afterall LASER stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. The fact that they Do EM damage implies that the laser is strong enough to produce an Electromagnetic force...as electricity is the only force that can produce and EMP, and EM energy has very nasty effect on electronics, but little effect on metals and living tissue (hence why it's so devistating to shields, but not hulls). For the sake of argument, one could speculate that Lasers in Eve (if they are stong enough to produce an EM burst) could produce a small amount of kineitc damage along with it. (arch flash)* so, that sums up how Kinetc damage would work. What about explosive?....ok I lied, there's pretty much no way to get lasers to cause explosive damages. Unless (in theory) some kind of neutron shooting laser was created that sent trillions of neutrons hurling twords an enemy ship and light speeds in an attempt to split an atom and creat Nuclear Fission... But that weapon sounds alot like a blaster (or current Titan weapons)...so the gallente would have the explosive boost
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:44:00 - [49] I can't help but notice how off topic that was....sorry
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.17 22:44:00 - [50] @ninjaspud: Lasers are a moving electromagnetic force driven by photons. Photons pump energy into electrons and that causes several effects depending on the atom being hit. Some atoms will become ionized and a massive ionization may disrupt the atomic bonds so the material dissintegrates into a plasma, and some other atoms will ressonate until they overcome the strenght of atomic bonds and dissintegrate into plasma. This processes require that photons are pumped in too fast for the effect to spread over the matter i.e. need high intensity and a very focused stream of photons, which is why lasers are so powerful. So, high-energy lasers with a very intense output essentially disrupt matter by either ionizing (EM damage) or heating (Thermal damage) it. As they are weightless they don't have any kinetic force and as they aren't made of ordinary matter then they can't explode neither. Anyway, to dissintegrate matter into plasma is way cooler than shake it or tear out chunks of it.

Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:02:00 - [51] Originally by: NinjaSpud . . . A laser beam is light. Or, more accurately Electromagnetic radiation. x-rays, radio waves, visible light, infrared, ultraviolet and others all fall into this category. The difference between them is the energy level and therefore the wavelength (the one is dependent on the other). What seperates a laser from an ordinary flashlight is that the light waves released by a laser are all of the same wavelength and synchronized with each other. The waves emitted by a laser are EM energy. They don't create EM energy; they are EM energy. So the EM component of the damage value is pretty obvious. Lasers create heat when they strike a surface. The energy from the electromagnetic waves transfer into the object they strike, excite the molecules the substance is made of and the resulting energy is released as heat. Entropy. Love it. Lightning is something entirely different. google it. I've nerded out too much already.
Sisohiv Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Serra Polaris To those talking about checking crystal damage, just mouse over the crystal icon on your guns while in space. TY for the usefull info. Lasers still suck but as a PvE farm tool I suppose they can get the job done. To the OP, use T1 and focus on your refire. The thing that makes Laser usefull is the refire, not the volley damage.
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Mister Smithington Lightning is something entirely different. google it. HOLY **** I didn't know what lightning was until you told me to google it...thank god I got that cleared up
Buzzmong Aliastra	Posted - 2011.03.18 00:14:00 - [54] Edited by: Buzzmong on 18/03/2011 00:16:22 Originally by: Everyone's Mother And worst of all, there's no way to tell how much damage a crystal has. You mean apart from the fact you can do a Show Info on it via the fitting screen/hanger and look at the Damage statistic that appears as a decimal counting from 0.01 to 0.99 (at 1.0 it goes pop) after you start using it? --------------------------------- Go Web! Go!
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.03.18 00:26:00 - [55] Originally by: NinjaSpud Originally by: Mister Smithington Lightning is something entirely different. google it. HOLY ** I didn't know what lightning was until you told me to google it...thank god I got that cleared up The sarcasm isn't lost on me. But if you really thought there was functional similarity between a laser and a bolt of lightning then you really did need some education. Originally by:** Buzzmong Edited by: Buzzmong on 18/03/2011 00:16:22 Originally by: Everyone's Mother And worst of all, there's no way to tell how much damage a crystal has. You mean apart from the fact you can do a Show Info on it via the fitting screen/hanger and look at the Damage statistic that appears as a decimal counting from 0.01 to 0.99 (at 1.0 it goes pop) after you start using it? Right. Except that isn't the case. If you mouse over your guns while in space it shows a number, but not if you show info on the charge. Show info does list a damage number, but that's total possible damage, not current damage.
Jojo Jackson Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 04:46:00 - [56] T2 close combat ammo sucks anyway do to 20% tracking penalty. T2 long range ammo can be usefull for some ships (Pulse Apoc) but isn't needed. Faction ammo does the job much better for PvE most times.
Senghir Amarr Sword Of The Empire	Posted - 2011.03.18 10:05:00 - [57] Originally by: Buzzmong Edited by: Buzzmong on 18/03/2011 00:16:22 Originally by: Everyone's Mother And worst of all, there's no way to tell how much damage a crystal has. You mean apart from the fact you can do a Show Info on it via the fitting screen/hanger and look at the Damage statistic that appears as a decimal counting from 0.01 to 0.99 (at 1.0 it goes pop) after you start using it? He means from the cargo bay when you're on the fly. If you're changed ammo types, there is no way to tell which crystals to load as from the cargo bay you can't see how damaged they are. If you just hit reload, then the game will pick some fairly randomly, leaving you with stupid damage to crystals. What's also really annoying (and I petitioned this and put it in the issues thread and nothing happened) is that you can have say, four partially damaged crystals in your cargo, and perhaps 8 stacked brand new crystals. When you right click to reload, it gives you the option of 'crystal-type' or 'crystal-type [used]'. Even when you tell it you want the used ones, it will take one or two from the brand new pile, which is just plain idiocy and needs to be fixed. Crystals are a nightmare for this reason. They're the reason my exploration Legion's cargo hold is rammed with Scorch crystals.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor	Posted - 2011.03.18 10:10:00 - [58] Be happy that your t1 ammo never depleats... Gallente, Minmatar and Caldari need to reload after every few dozen shots...
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Xercodo on 18/03/2011 14:18:43 Um guys...you might wanna see this and this -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
William Walker Amarr House Aratus Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:31:00 - [60] Originally by: Xercodo Edited by: Xercodo on 18/03/2011 14:18:43 Um guys...you might wanna see this and this Awesome! I`ll take 200! I use Imperial Navy MF and Scorch as well when blasting away at rats in nullsec, every bit of DPS helps and you get your money back tenfold anyway. Who needs missions? ________________________________________________



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