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Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:23:00 - [1] If the servers already use Ubuntu, then don't read this post: I found a site that let's you download the Ubuntu Operating System, and after looking at it, I started thinking about how it could be applied to EVE. Maybe you guys could put it on the Test Servers to see how it performs and to make it easier to detect Linux bugs. And don't worry, Ubuntu still supports Virtual Computers, allowing you to use Windows or Mac if needed. https://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview This post was created to prevent locking caused by 90-Day Inactivity.
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:49:00 - [2]
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.17 18:51:00 - [3] HOW DARE YOU MOCK CAPTAIN PICARD! This post was created to prevent locking caused by 90-Day Inactivity.
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2011.03.17 19:28:00 - [4] Why would you use Ubuntu for a server? Why would you test an OS that isn't used for EVE? ------------------------------------- The system issues man.
bassie12bf1	Posted - 2011.03.17 19:33:00 - [5] Ubuntu would be an OS for people who don't know much about linux. Besides, CCP would have to convert their Microsoft based stuff to linux.
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:19:00 - [6] Answer: Virtualization They just have to back up their data and then either run a virtual Ubuntu system on their current system OR run a virtual windows and/or mac system on Ubuntu. Ubuntu also has alot of advantages, such as better security, better accessabilit, better performance, better custimization, etc. Next time, try looking at the website. This post was created to prevent locking caused by 90-Day Inactivity.
David Carel Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:21:00 - [7] Go back to your master Shuttleworth.
Paul Satre	Posted - 2011.03.18 02:17:00 - [8] Ubuntu is a DESKTOP linux distro.
Mohr Cowbell Akuma Capsule Corp Tribal Unity Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 02:41:00 - [9] There is a server edition of Ubuntu available. But still, I don't quite understand the OP. Maybe he meant testing the EVE client under Ubuntu/wine (?). In which case, Linux isn't even supported anymore.
Commander Kahn'Alzaor Gallente Sliced Awesome	Posted - 2011.03.18 03:58:00 - [10] Redhat servers or GTFO Honestly though CCP are WAY to far committed to the Microsoft environment. CCP moving to open source solutions would mean even LESS fixes for old rubbish likes POS and less new featuers while they retool everything.
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2011.03.18 05:57:00 - [11] Is there a sale on armchairs or something?
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 09:07:00 - [12] Edited by: Amaroq Dricaldari on 18/03/2011 09:08:55 Originally by: David Carel Go back to your master Shuttleworth. What the hell is that suppossed to mean? Originally by: Paul Satre Ubuntu is a DESKTOP linux distro. Ubuntu also has a server version. Next time, you LOOK at the website before you make posts. Ssimiliar with reading the entire post, and paying attention to/thinking about all of the facts. I do that before I post, but some of you guys, I don't mean to sound offensive about it, but for most of you guys I highly doubt you read and think about everything before yu make your post. Here is the stupid website AGAIN in case you forgot to read everything on there the first time: http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview Happy now? Also, you can use a virtual operating system, such as a virtual Ubuntu system on windows r a virtual windows system on Ubuntu, which I think I said already, but you idiots never listen to me. ^^My Signature is Better than yours^^
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.03.18 11:35:00 - [13] Hello, Right now you are if anything hindering FOSS not helping it. 'When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail' and all that. There's no evidence that changing server OS would do anything but take up manhours, and clearly CCP know about such options as the game's got a lot written in (Stackless) Python. There's been mentioning of building a mechanism to move Sols/ingame systems across hardware without (localised) downtime, basically a VMotion equivalant to reinforce a node as needed, so I think it's safe to say they're aware of VMs too. I'm not sure if we've seen a DevBlog reporting any testing of different OSs or virtualisation, even evidence that there's no improvement or important tradeoffs would be cool. Yes the other issue is that the databases at least are SQL Server.
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 12:21:00 - [14] Um... hello? Have you looked at the website like I suggested? I am in a bad mood because of people like you. You guys could at least show a little appreciation to people's ideas for once. Oh, I get it, you only listen to your parents. That just means you suck. I am done listening to you sheep. Go eat the grass over there and get on with your lives. -- ^^My Signature is Better than yours^^
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.03.18 12:38:00 - [15] Have you? Your links don't even work... Been using Mandrake/Mandriva since '02 (which is not relatively long I know). Been in one of the largest companies in the world for almost 5 years. Linux has it's place, it is great for many server situations (and netbooks, phones, routers etc). You are not providing any evidence that CCP is in one of those situations, nor can you easily. You can politely suggest it or ask what their results were from checking it out, but stop there. To keep harping on makes you seem immature and doesn't help the thing you're pushing. People want to see that those supporting something have intelligence and knowledge before spending time and money, not just blinkers on. You know CCP had a native linux client right? They paid Cedega I believe for a WineX custom package, but then cancelled that when the Windows client worked better with FOSS Wine. They're not ignorate, go read the Dev Blogs we're fortunate to get, there's stuff about where the bottlenecks are for the various performance issues.
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 12:43:00 - [16] I made a typo with my links, so I updated them. Big deal. Fund, go to the stupid websites yourself by actually typing it in the address bar if you're so busy to notice that I made typos. I will fix the links for you, okay? Now stop being bossy about it and look at the websites when I am done. www.ubuntu.com www.vmware.com Now stop putting your trolling on my thread, I am sick of it. This forum is not for people to enforce their will. -- ^^My Signature is Better than yours^^
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2011.03.18 14:12:00 - [17] I think you're not getting it. He's telling you to get a **ing clue. You don't know ** about Linux, it shows, that fact seeps out of all your orifices and drips onto your keyboard. You're parading a stupid website around, not understanding a single shred of the product offered there. You're like that 12 year old nerd kid in school, who thinks he's an ace computer hacker because he watched Hugh Jackman build a computer virus in 3dsmax in Password Swordfish. Go away!
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 17:55:00 - [18] Are you talking to me or to him, because if you're talking to me, then I will just block all words and gestures coming from you from reaching my brain, and I will force my brain to erase all of my knowledge of your existence and this conversation. Who do you think you are, my mother? Block CCP, I told you guys through an email that these forums were a troll magnet, maybe you should have listened. Everybody, read my new signature. And I swear never to change it ever again as long as I live (except to make the occasional improvement. -- Why do you observe the piece of dirt in your brother's eye but not notice the big piece of mud in your own?
Mohr Cowbell Akuma Capsule Corp Tribal Unity Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 00:58:00 - [19] And on that note.. I am selling Space Ponies which are on sale for this week only. Serious offers only please.
Mohr Cowbell Akuma Capsule Corp Tribal Unity Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 01:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Jenna Malone Is there a sale on armchairs or something? Must be a blowout sale going on :D
Shintomi	Posted - 2011.03.19 03:15:00 - [21] Originally by: bassie12bf1 Ubuntu would be an OS for people who don't know much about linux. Besides, CCP would have to convert their Microsoft based stuff to linux. That's what wine is for.... I've used ubuntu on a few machines, and played eve on both servers with no problems.
Althos Silverwing	Posted - 2011.03.19 03:39:00 - [22] Changing OS would be pointless at this venture. Here are the reasons why: 1: Microsoft likely gives a decent deal to CCP to use their Server software. 2: Microsoft also likely gives CCP complete and undivided attention when a problem arises with the Operating System 3: Ubuntu is garbage. It is a poorly written open source version of Red Hat Linux, I know this because I use Red Hat Linux and my customers occasionally get the dumb idea to try to use our PBX software with Ubuntu, when our software comes with an Open basic copy of Red Hat, so I have to spend 4 hours fixing that. 4: Why on earth would you want to change out the OS when SQL works actually quite well for what CCP does? Who needs money, I just want a fleet of Hulks I Can control from one main ship and watch them bring me the ore i so love to look at.
SiLeNTFoRCe	Posted - 2011.03.19 04:20:00 - [23] wow... all i have to say is wow....
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.19 08:26:00 - [24] This thread..is..are you serious? Seriously? How, exactly, is Ubuntu going to outperform Server 2008? Not even factoring in support..
Chris baileyy	Posted - 2011.03.19 09:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Mohr Cowbell And on that note.. I am selling Space Ponies which are on sale for this week only. Serious offers only please. Lol
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.03.19 10:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 19/03/2011 10:33:35 Originally by: Batolemaeus How, exactly, is Ubuntu going to outperform Server 2008? That's relatively easy, e.g. using a newer networking stack than older Windows (i.e. XP) which had a copy of a BSD one, or having a more tested and progressed one than the thing they rewrote to put in their newer OS editions (Vista+ I believe). Equal thinking can be applied to many other aspects such as memory and process support, as Linux has been constantly improved upon for decades by some of the best with the goal of doing it right rather than to a release deadline. Windows doesn't get that luxury. Plus you can custom build your OS to strip out things or use differently scaling approaches depending where bottlenecks are and what exact performance conditions you're dealing with. And then there's the issues the newer Windows OSs have had with basic things like network and local file copies being slower, including degrading when you have e.g. music playing because of how entangled the DRM support is with it's secure media path enforcement.
Meotherdude Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 11:29:00 - [27] Wouldn't normally bother posting on this type of thread, but something is bugging me ever so slightly that I can't quite put my finger on. <RANT> Why the hell would CCP even bother re-tooling even a test version of EVE to another OS nevermind adding another layer between the EVE server software and the hardware (VMware or whatever). Ever heard of a little thing like effort vs reward, the serious amount of work required verses maybe minimal gains, nevermind the lack of serious tech backup when things go fruit shaped. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of FOSS (me lubs debian), but having proper enterprise level backup from a company like M$ is worth it's weight in Trit. </RANT>
Elmore Jones The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.19 11:47:00 - [28] This has been a very amusing thread :) I'll skip trolling the OPs obvious lack of social ability... The idea is sound, to a given value of sound. There's very little doubt that a BSD or Linux based server would be more secure and faster to some degree than a Windows based one - even MS' own Hotmail used a BSD server at one point as their own products weren't up to the job at the time (lol). However the fact that CCP has dropped Linux support for the game client might give the OP a small clue that they dont wanna go there. The support is a good point - I have no idea of MS suppoort costs vs say Oracle for Solaris OS or Redhat or Novell or Canonical etc but the point is pretty much moot if CCP dont wanna support any other nix OS than Mac. This does all in all make me a slightly sad panda because I love my nix but that's the way it is, and I'm not quitting EVE just yet so MS it is. __________________________________________________
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2011.03.19 11:52:00 - [29] I've been working with Linux servers for 13 years, and generally speaking, a out of the box Linux get better performance than a out of the box M$ server when it comes to I/O, both network and file. But I doubt the config of CCPs nodes, or the SQL server for that matter is 'out of the box' in any respect. Also, this is a bit of guessing, but the python they are running is probably tweaked toward skipping any stupid I/O layers in the new win OSes (security and so on), and going straight for the underlying subsystem as there is huge gain to be had skipping the security decriptors. Adding a win emulator on top of any linux distro and expecting better performance than using a native win system is probably NOT a good idea. At work, I'm the admin of a rather large database running on Linux, with postgresql as the backend DB, and python doing the handling of data. I'm rather pleased with the performance compared with another DB at work, running on win systems.
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.03.19 13:23:00 - [30] I just thought that maybe if the servers used Ubuntu, it would improve performance slightly since it has better security, not to mention that Linux is ultra efficient when it comes to RAM. Another thing, I checked the server page, it will apparently has low power consumption as well, which means CCP won't have to pay as many power bills and they can pay their staff slightly more (or reduce prices on things slightly, even though they are already low enough to make me buy plexes with my out-of-game money. -- Why do you observe the piece of dirt in your brother's eye but not notice the big piece of mud in your own?
Meotherdude Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 14:02:00 - [31] Not quite sure on the obsession with Ubuntu there matey, but compared to the big boys of the nix world it is quite immature and I doubt they could backup a HPC environment such as the EVE cluster. Also the possible power savings over the man hour cost to convert / test / create the required management tools etc would not balance out. Another thing to take in to account would be a possibly massive skills gap between what CCP is now using and a nix environment.
Frederick Corvinus	Posted - 2011.03.19 15:26:00 - [32] tl;dr - OP fails at understanding anything about servers and/or hosting a MMO not to mention anything about CCP's infrastructure. Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari Also requesting close due to trolls Pot, kettle, black.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.03.19 15:38:00 - [33] For those of you still unsure if the OP is trolling or just EXTREMELY stupid: Exhibit A Exhibit B Exhibit C Exhibit D
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2011.03.19 16:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Jovan Geldon For those of you still unsure if the OP is trolling or just EXTREMELY stupid: Exhibit A Exhibit B Exhibit C Exhibit D I found exhibit C particularly lol worthy. -----
Meotherdude Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:52:00 - [35] Damn it me trolldar ain't working, knew there was a reason this post bugged me.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:33:00 - [36] You gotta love this guy. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Cyril Hounds Of War Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2011.03.20 06:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Brixer I've been working with Linux servers for 13 years, and generally speaking, a out of the box Linux get better performance than a out of the box M$ server when it comes to I/O, both network and file. But I doubt the config of CCPs nodes, or the SQL server for that matter is 'out of the box' in any respect. Also, this is a bit of guessing, but the python they are running is probably tweaked toward skipping any stupid I/O layers in the new win OSes (security and so on), and going straight for the underlying subsystem as there is huge gain to be had skipping the security decriptors. Adding a win emulator on top of any linux distro and expecting better performance than using a native win system is probably NOT a good idea. Being a long term player of EvE I remember a few details from dev blogs past: Thanks for that info and your I/O guess is dead on. I don't remember how long ago but CCP wrote their own stackless I/O to reduce server lag. As to support possibilities I highly doubt Ubuntu would have technicians on a plane in under 12 hours when CCP had a major server snafu. While it probably cost a bit, M$ did. I'm also going to go out on a limb but they would probably also need to completely redactor their clustering technology. To change OS at this point in the game would take many thousands of man hours. Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari I found a site that let's you download the Ubuntu Operating System, and after looking at it, I started thinking about how it could be applied to EVE. Please for the love of god stop thinking... you are not very good at it. ----------------------------------------- insert witty sig here.
Amaroq Dricaldari Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:42:00 - [38] CCP, how many times do I have to tell you that these forums ARE A TROLL MAGNET?!?!?!??!?!?!? Also, PLEASE close this stupid thread or delete it, because I am sick and tired of these trolls. Now to all of you people other than me who posted on this thread, I am not stupid, I am not a troll (if it seems that way, then it is unintentional and I can get in REALLY bad moods), and you people are the trolls. Since you all fail to pay attention, read my signature, and think about what the phrase means. Here is a hint, stop pointing out soomebody's mistakes when you make your own mistakes which are much worse. After all, nobody is perfect, except maybe Jesus, but nobody believes in christianity these days. If you think that you're perfect, then that just means you are another arrogant fool. -- Why do you observe the piece of dirt in your brother's eye but not notice the big piece of mud in your own?
Aurelius Harrison Amarr DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE	Posted - 2011.03.20 18:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari Since you all fail to pay attention, read my signature, and think about what the phrase means. Here is a hint, stop pointing out soomebody's mistakes when you make your own mistakes which are much worse. After all, nobody is perfect, except maybe Jesus, but nobody believes in christianity these days. If you think that you're perfect, then that just means you are another arrogant fool. Read the thread... most of it anyway... tried you follow you links, they didn't work... I don't know even know why I'm falling for the troll but here goes nothing. No one here thinks their perfect, except maybe me ("Self-declared arrogant SOB coming through!"), but they did try to explain to you the errors in your logic some more nicely than others and you insisted that you were right. You opened a thread and put something someone else found to be inaccurate then go on a tirade about how you must be right even when there is solid evidence to the contrary. Quit going the adolescent defensive route ("I'm right, you're wrong") and look for something concrete that proves your point (ex: another large MMO that uses Ubu-whosawhatsit). Finally though, you ask us to read your signature accusing us of having mud in our eyes. Since you try to quote the bible and retreat into religion to justify yourself let me quote two lines down your quote: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brotherÆs eye." (Matthew 7:5). I'm sorry mate, but other people can prooftext too. In conclusion, I have to agree with Jovan Geldon, the people opposing you are not the trolls in this thread.
CountX CX The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 03:44:00 - [40] You're an epic man....an epic man. Some will look back after they scare you away, and eve-o forums will be a boring place that day.
Paul Satre	Posted - 2011.03.21 11:08:00 - [41] Anyway Amaroq, who u think u are to recommend such obvious thing? Did u really believe that the CCP IT Team never tested "Linux" before? Look like u didnt, since u recommended Ubuntu for server, real server admin know that the best approach, will be BSD based system, not a damn messy junk code fragmented linux kernel,and dont be linux fanboy, only because u like linux dont make linux the uber ultimate system for eve server. Leave this job for someone REALLY know what is the best for eve, the CCP IT Team
Cyril Hounds Of War Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari CCP, how many times do I have to tell you that these forums ARE A TROLL MAGNET?!?!?!??!?!?!? Also, PLEASE close this stupid thread or delete it, because I am sick and tired of these trolls. Now to all of you people other than me who posted on this thread, I am not stupid, I am not a troll (if it seems that way, then it is unintentional and I can get in REALLY bad moods), and you people are the trolls. Since you all fail to pay attention, read my signature, and think about what the phrase means. Here is a hint, stop pointing out soomebody's mistakes when you make your own mistakes which are much worse. After all, nobody is perfect, except maybe Jesus, but nobody believes in christianity these days. If you think that you're perfect, then that just means you are another arrogant fool. I'm pretty sure CCP has better things to do then jump to your every whim and lock threads. (Oh and a hint, every time you cry in your thread it gets bumped and more likely for someone new to notice it) ----------------------------------------- insert witty sig here.

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