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The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:45:00 - [1] Originally by: Vuk Lau Last night I resigned as CSM delegate. One of my main goals was pointing how horrible CCP customer support is. For me this was top priority especially if we take into consideration that EVE is extremely complex, undocumented and bugged product. Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports. As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322 and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support. Anyway after raising that issue I received plenty of :facepalm: material from customers and from the current and former GMs who were unhappy how things are working. Later on, many of the pilots were contacting me for help with petitions where i even further realized how crappy things are. I started preparing issue to be raised again, but didnt got any feedback from CCP, just to be surprised with one of the most embarrassing devblogs ever - Devblog about change of the reimbursement policies. I already started boiling, but then this week happened, the week before the Fanfest trip. I had 4 personal petitions (I will not even touch the subject of petitions I am handling for other players because of :facepalm:) in last couple of days, 2 are still unanswered, 1 is escalated and 1 I closed after two GMs copy/pasting answers without even reading what I wrote. This combined with embarrassing discussion about 0.0 future with main game designers resulted in my decision to resign. I know I have only 2 weeks left, but going on Fanfest and smiling there how CSM is awesome :stakeholders: while I got nothing but crap in the face from CCP will be something I would regret it. Not to mention that I would most likely barely restrain from raping some of them. I am sad I will not see a lot of players and lot of CCP dudes who I was looking forward to see, but it would be dishonest from me to be part of that. I am really really sorry I failed in fixing/improving customer support. Despite this ending I am proud to say that thanks to us, awesome video made by Blazde and me pursuing the issue CCP at least admitted there is lag and assembled dedicated team to tackle the issue. It would stay nothing but :words: if there wasnt some awesome dudes in CCP like CCP Veritas and CCP Explorer who really dedicated themselves to the issue. Anyway I dont need to point how important is to have competent 0.0 delegates because if there wasnt me in CSM 4 the closest person who gave ** about lag was Trebor who had some ****ed ideas about fog of war or something...but at least he cared, regardless how clueless he is. I apologize one more time to everyone who voted for me, but I exhausted all civilized ways of communication with CCP and I already crossed over the line of civil correspondence with them. At the end of the day I am aware that the best way of "talking" with CCP is "crashtheJitanode" way, but even I fully endorse it I would never drag others with me. I am kinda emo because all the energy and time myself and people around me are putting into this game to make it better place for all of us, but I really didnt had any choice but to stop being part of the show. Sorry to all dudes who were looking forward to having fun times in Iceland with me along, I am sure you will have great time anyway and we will all meet each other on NC BBQ on summer. Also I need to talk with Elvenlord but I am unsure if we will hold alliance presentation. At the I am sorry if I disappointed all of you who gave me your votes. RAWR CSM5 is ending with a bang, given this and the Open Letter re: Incarna drama. discuss~ The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:53:00 - [2] Originally by: The Mittani discuss~ I wondered what little dramalama ding dong your little block of friends would have planned for this period in the election. Guess we now know :/ How kind of your good buddy to 'resign' just as he's about to stop being a member of the CSM and give you the scoop. Nice stunt Mittens. All theatrics though. CSM 6: Let's get Windypops indypops.
Tomcat Gallente Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:55:00 - [3] Wise words from a person in this game that I respect dearly. You have nothing to apologize for. You gave your time and spirit to this game and tried to change the minds of a game company that is losing focus on what really matters. There is only so much one man can do, and we thank you for your efforts.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:57:00 - [4] Respect vuk for your dedication, and see you around mate. ps. Sophia Lau best Lau Vote Sokratesz for CSM-6!
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Tomcat we thank you for your efforts. Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost. CSM 6: Let's get Windypops indypops.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 21:59:00 - [6] Stop whining, windypops.
Hratli Smirks GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:00:00 - [7] Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Tomcat we thank you for your efforts. Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost. All we had to do was make that logged out Ragnarok not disappear for eight hours and let CCP GMs do the rest ~all too easy~
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:02:00 - [8] More bitter: lemon, or windy? Hard to tell... will someone volunteer to bite windy and find out? ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:03:00 - [9] Edited by: E man Industries on 18/03/2011 22:06:14 Edited by: E man Industries on 18/03/2011 22:04:26 Maybe it's just me but I only talked to GM's 2x in 2 years. How often are you petitioning that this is a big deal? They handled both my errors so they where corrected for my next play session. they didn't give me any free isk though. I also don't see how mittans is a better option for this. More theatrics over minior preseieved slights as big news? meh. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Tomcat Gallente Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:04:00 - [10] Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Tomcat we thank you for your efforts. Indeed, good of him to fall on his sword to give the NC / Goons campaign a boost. At this rate you will be posting in :LimeGreen: in no time.

iP0D	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:05:00 - [11] I wouldn't put this in the category of drama, nor the Incarna open letter I would certainly put it in a category of there being several challenges here, but that is something different. This is a matter on its own, even if it is part of the general sensitivity of the topic of CS. The 0.0 issue (aside of the unfortunate troll topic of bridges outside of context in the minutes leading to the whole shouting and fear mongering of "omg my bridges") is an important one, but less so in the light of the troll situation and much more so in light of CCP Greyscale's mentions of aiming for macro scale events ... that is going to need careful exchange and translation of viewpoints, and metrics. The Incarna open letter, I'm sorry, considering CCP's company values and the tasking by CCP's CEO Hilmar I fail to see any drama, on the contrary, it falls perfectly within the scope of constructive pressure management following weeks of collaboration (as we saw on SHC, blogs and other places) and before that the tediousness of communication between CCP, CCP, and CSM on the road of Incarna. We will see what follows, in the mean time it is - in spite of immediate appearances - to see CCP take a road of caution in the introduction of Incarna (yes, beta for, etc etc). But yes, this is EVE, politics is fun That being said, it is a shame to see Vuk go. I hope the presentation is still made, would be a shame.
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:07:00 - [12] Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:08:44 Originally by: "The Mittani" I openly announce myself to be an arrogant, and manipulative" Originally by: "The Mittani" "i'm manipulative" Originally by: "The Mittani" "me being a rutheless, manipulative bastard" Originally by: "The Mittani" "being manipulative is a wonderful skill to have" Originally by: "The Mittani" "my pledge to be manipulative" Perhaps if Mittani hadn't spent quite so much time in this campaign boasting about his ability to connive and construct drama I might take this latest 'scoop' a little more seriously. As it is, I think it's a pretty shallow, transparent little stunt. Soon to be ex-CSM member storms off a few days before he'd no longer be on the CSM anyway? Next week's will be better though, I'm sure. And we've got a whole year of these little faux 'exposes' from Mittens to look forward to. CSM 6: Let's get Windypops indypops.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:10:00 - [13] Well, aside from windy's new conspiracy theory, this is a somewhat interesting bit, but: Originally by: E man Industries More theatrics over minior preseieved slights as big news? GM/dev incompetence is a big, big deal. That we're dealing with a corporation that was surprised to learn that there was significant module lag in fleet fights is a bad thing. That the most expensive ships in the game, which require alliance-wide support for their production and use, can be destroyed not through pilot error but by blatantly broken game mechanics where ships stay in system for hours after their pilots log off? that's simply unacceptable. We deserve a game whose basic features work. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Miz Calculated	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:12:00 - [14] Who's Vuk Lau?
Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:16:00 - [15] Is this about the idiotic "It's not your fault that you lost your (insert supercapital); it's the game's fault; we're still not going to reimburse you" reimbursement policy? Because that's a seriously dumbass policy and it is literally the dumbest way to treat long-time players who work their asses off (or in my case, scam a lot of dudes) to get a supercapital, only to see it wiped out - not because they did anything wrong - but because they desynched after jumping into a system (which can easily happen, even if the system isn't lagged.) It's also the laziest possible way to "deal" with the problem. So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it.
Boogaloo	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Miz Calculated Who's Vuk Lau? He's one of Mittani's friends who has 'suddenly' decided that it's wrong that people lose supercaps when logged off at exactly the same time that some of his friends... erm... lost supercaps when logged off. When Mittens and co did it to IT / BoB they thought it was fair game. Suddenly, apparently, it's unacceptable (just before an election).
Johnathan Walker Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux . So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it. I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... Warmly, "The Bear" JW
Mechaet Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Mechaet on 18/03/2011 22:24:19 Originally by: Johnathan Walker Originally by: Devilish Ledoux . I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... And rightfully so.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Johnathan Walker Originally by: Devilish Ledoux . So if this is what you're mad about, Vuk, I'm right behind you. If it's something else, then I'm probably still right behind you on it. I would be seriously concerned with any Goonie "right behind me" at any time, about anything... It's okay. I only engage in homorapism on the weekends. Oh, wait. It's Friday. Carry on, then.
Dawn Flare	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:27:00 - [20] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:10:59 Edited by: General Windypops on 18/03/2011 22:08:44 Originally by: "The Mittani" I openly announce myself to be an arrogant, and manipulative" Originally by: "The Mittani" "i'm manipulative" Originally by: "The Mittani" "me being a rutheless, manipulative bastard" Originally by: "The Mittani" "being manipulative is a wonderful skill to have" Originally by: "The Mittani" "my pledge to be manipulative" Perhaps if Mittani hadn't spent quite so much time in this campaign boasting about his ability to connive and construct drama I might take this latest 'scoop' a little more seriously. As it is, I think it's a pretty shallow, transparent little stunt. Soon to be ex-CSM member storms off a few days before he'd no longer be on the CSM anyway? You'd have to be pretty simple minded not to see through this choreographed announcement for what it is. Next week's will be better though, I'm sure. And we've got a whole year of these little faux 'exposes' from Mittens to look forward to. Honest question, isn't being manipulative a good thing, when you get down to it? Even more so, aren't your little posts here even more obviously manipulative? You are attempting to prey of peoples fear of mind control to implant the suggestions you feel to be right, and you aren't even being subtle about it. At least mittens there put there effort into his propaganda to give an impression other than idiot who is bitter because he finally realized that he sucks at the spin game.

Numskull The Executives	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:31:00 - [21] Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53 You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us. And only NOW, when your friends are involved and you use CSM privelege to try to force decisions on petitions, you and Vuk suddenly decide it's 'intolerable'? Vuk storms off giving you the exclusive drama bomb?? If this is the kind of neutrality and balance we can expect when you guys have most of the seats on the CSM then it's a pretty clear indication of how you lot intend to blackmail and manipulate the CSM to your personal advantage. Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani? [Edited for spelling]
Vuk Lau 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:34:00 - [22] Btw i resigned before I lost the titan, and before I even imagined I would lost it. Also if I wanted to manipulate with my resignation I would do it to promote Killer2.
Katsura Kotonoha Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:35:00 - [23] Was it too hard to hire an auditor to watch employee conduct in the game and prevent scandals like spawning T2 BPOs? CCP took the cheap, short term solution by banning its employees from playing the game.
iP0D	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Numskull Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani? Dude he never wore a mask. Sure he's tried to play "lolpolitics", but he's always been clear on just advocating his own interests and people would be stupid to trust him Look at it this way. His enemies got killed by time and grind itself, so now he's got to make his own Aurora 2.0 Seriously, what do you expect. Even in scrum some pigs and chickens are less equal that most.
Katsura Kotonoha Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Numskull Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53 You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us. And only NOW, when your friends are involved and you use CSM privelege to try to force decisions on petitions, you and Vuk suddenly decide it's 'intolerable'? Vuk storms off giving you the exclusive drama bomb?? If this is the kind of neutrality and balance we can expect when you guys have most of the seats on the CSM then it's a pretty clear indication of how you lot intend to blackmail and manipulate the CSM to your personal advantage. Guess you let your mask slip, huh, Mittani? [Edited for spelling] Plenty of fights in the game are won by being the first to convince GMs a technique is an exploit. Maybe you should quit whining and start petitioning more.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Numskull Edited by: Numskull on 18/03/2011 22:32:53 You have GOT to be kidding me, Mittens. Goons and the NC used that means of killing caps countless times against their enemies when you were at war with us. What were we going to do? NOT kill hostile ships because they might be desynched and/or lagged out? What kind of dumbass ehonour crap is that? I lost a supercarrier to an IT fleet because of this, but I sure as hell didn't blame the IT fleet for shooting me up. Seriously, you take the kills that are presented to you. Even IF CCP had a sane and sensible reimbursement policy, and you KNEW that the titan you are about to kill will just get reimbursed, shoot the damned thing anyway. A kill is a kill is a kill. Anyone who tries to scream "HYPOCRITE" over this is a numskull.
Doggsbody Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:39:00 - [27] Wow Mittani, bit of an own goal this thread huh?
Meissa Anunthiel Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:40:00 - [28] Originally by: Vuk Lau Last night I resigned as CSM delegate. Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports. As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322 and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support. For the record, I was with Vuk on that one. And 90% of the conversation about this issue was him and me. So I don't agree with the "no support from the CSM" bit. There has been an increase in overall GM quality since that meeting in CSM 3, in no small part due to that discussion. And while we've all had our share of :facepalm: since, anecdote is not the singular of data (which despite continuous request, we have yet to receive from CCP wink wink nudge nudge)... That being said, I regret Vuk's decision. In the 3 terms I was lucky to work with him, he's been a great asset the vast majority of the time (ie, when he could keep his temper his check, something understandably difficult this last term :p) This last bit of CSM has been extremely tiresome and frustrating for many delegates, and tempers flared. Vuk indeed kept pushing for improvements in 0.0, lag fixes, GM improvements and was even a proponent of positive changes in areas that concerned his gameplay less directly. It's safe to say he didn't fail his voters... ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5. Running for CSM 6 http://www.rooksandkings.com/meissa/ Click here to vote for me!
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:45:00 - [29] this thread has nothing to do with my csm run (which is pretty much already won, regardless of the chair fight) you can whine about me and 'conspiracies' all you want though, i'll just enjoy your impotent rage The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Lady Spanky Perkone	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:57:00 - [30] Fun to see The Mittani backpeddling. Pathetic to see the Goon / NC guy ragequitting because he couldn't use his CSM position to get his ship back. This is precisely why we need fewer 0.0 alliance reps on the CSM. The fact that Vuk Lau even ADMITS to corruptly trying to influence the outcome of a petition is seriously scary. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo

Vuk Lau 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.18 22:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Lady Spanky Fun to see The Mittani backpeddling. Pathetic to see the Goon / NC guy ragequitting because he couldn't use his CSM position to get his ship back. This is precisely why we need fewer 0.0 alliance reps on the CSM. The fact that Vuk Lau even ADMITS to corruptly trying to influence the outcome of a petition is seriously scary. Spotted GM alt. C/P Generic troll without even reading the op.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:07:00 - [32] Nah, not GM alt, just generic troll. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:08:00 - [33] i don't even see how vuk resigning is supposed to help my candidacy, this is like arguing with jesus freaks about if i'm going to hell or not The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Derek McGiggles	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:09:00 - [34] Originally by: The Mittani i don't even see how vuk resigning is supposed to help my candidacy, this is like arguing with jesus freaks about if i'm going to hell or not Mittens, watcha gonna do if CCP decides to play the deaf card?
iP0D	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Derek McGiggles Originally by: The Mittani i don't even see how vuk resigning is supposed to help my candidacy, this is like arguing with jesus freaks about if i'm going to hell or not Mittens, watcha gonna do if CCP decides to play the deaf card? hurf blurf grandstanding on tentonhammer while yapping to buddies. Just like a regular capsuleer with a blog really. Or, he could try to get to work with the rest of CSM and the good parts of CCP constructively, consistantly, transparantly. Like Meissa, Mynxee, Trebor, Dierdra, Teadaze, etc in CSM 5.
Gumpy Nighthawk Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:22:00 - [36] I'm just going to post this link to show what I would do after I heard this news because I'm lacking a real one http://www.flipsideshow.com/images/US%20flag%20waving.jpg Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of facts.
Mynxee Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:45:00 - [37] Originally by: iP0D hurf blurf grandstanding on tentonhammer while yapping to buddies Heh heh...calls to mind for some reason the time when PCGamer's usual EVE reporter passed to another person the responsibility for a CSM5 interview that didn't reflect so well on CCP because he "didn't want to ruin chances of getting scoops from CCP about new features and stuff". The interview was never published, regardless.
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.18 23:55:00 - [38] I feel kind of bad now, Mittens. Sorry for ruining your big drama. More time to work on next week's though, eh? Remember people THEY'RE LYING TO YOU. Mittens said so. And he knows a lot about manipulation. He's saving us from those evil lies.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 00:21:00 - [39] Do they sell crazy by the bushel, or do they use metric these days? ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Lady Spanky Perkone	Posted - 2011.03.19 00:36:00 - [40] Edited by: Lady Spanky on 19/03/2011 00:37:13 Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Do they sell crazy by the bushel, or do they use metric these days? Your paymaster Mittens is hardly going to be delighted that you're bumping this PR disaster of a thread... Bet you're kicking yourself that it cost him more to bribe the Eve News 24 website for an official endorsement than your own 'impartial' Eve Tribune website. I'm willing to bet he only paid you about 200m for that. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo

The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 00:47:00 - [41] the purestrain rageposts in reaction to a thread not particularly relevant to me personally are a good sign for my csm run, i think if you weren't scared, you kids wouldn't be this desperate to flail about so ^_^ The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 01:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Lady Spanky Your paymaster So... bushels then? ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.19 01:52:00 - [43] All the poop flinging and dummy spitting going on in this thread show just how much CSM needs rational clear headed candidates voted in. Just like me.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 02:03:00 - [44] This is now a WIDOT thread. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.19 02:05:00 - [45] OP, minus his comments (since who really cares what Mittani has to say anyway) did yet again another "lets post something for no reason". Vuk Lau didnt even run for CSM this term but to say he 'resigned' is pretty funny since he only started whining about CSM / CCP after his term was over anyway like a little baby, haha. As for Mittani being in, well that was obvious, no one for a second thought you wouldnt get in, the sheeps will follow you as long as you have your title, the contradiction in EVERY Mittani thread just shows how stupid Goons are, agreeing just because "Its the Mittani" careless of the fact that Mittani hasnÆt been consistent about anything he has said since he started his ôlets obsess about Molle campaignö. FinnAgain Zero - Yeah, still ignoring your posts This thread is almost as funny as those 1 day alts spamming my mailbox with "HAHAH you got rejected from CSM" which is funny since I never applied nor had the time to commit to something like that anyway. Coming soon,.. 'Mittens - The hand that rocked the cradle' A documentary about how Mittani RP's Sarah Palin in game and at the CSM meetings, which resulted in daily whines about how supercarriers were underpowered and how jump bridges needed a buff. Thankfully CCP wont give a **** what he has to say anyway . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Pirokobo Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 02:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Kalle Demos Thankfully CCP wont give a **** what he has to say anyway CCP has already threatened to sue him for what he had to say in the past...
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.19 03:11:00 - [47] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 19/03/2011 03:11:07 Originally by: Pirokobo Originally by: Kalle Demos Thankfully CCP wont give a **** what he has to say anyway CCP has already threatened to sue him for what he had to say in the past... Yup im sure CCP will make a fortune out of suing people in a different country with no assets or income (outside RMT), all because they 'said words'. . Im not Bismaru, im better!
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 03:18:00 - [48] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 19/03/2011 03:24:27 Originally by: Kalle Demos FinnAgain Zero - Yeah, still ignoring your posts Hey, hey Finn! Finn! I'm not listening to you!!! Can you hear me? I said I'm totally ignoring you! Finn? Did you hear me!?! Hey, I'm ignoring you!!! By the way, speaking of your obvious trolling, found a cite yet to prove that the NC only had 20 titans and about 8 motherships, among all their member alliances? How about proof that any single NC supercapital pilot had their loss removed (and somehow also removed from hostile boards, go figure)? How about a cite to show that Razor has set AAA and AtlasDOT blue? No? Yeah... ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.19 03:43:00 - [49] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero I try too hard to brown nose Still not caring . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:05:00 - [50] I think we can all agree that all forums everywhere will be better off when Kalle Demos stops posting forever. Also, if this were a Mittani-run conspiracy, Vuk would have gone to Fanfest and loudly denounced CCP GMs live on EveTV. With his pecker out.

FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:15:00 - [51] Hell, if it was a Mittspicracy, Vuk would have endorsed Mittens as the only hope for EVE. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:19:00 - [52] No honor in resigning. Sorry but if you felt strongly enough about the issue you should have championed it as long as you can. By resigning you only remove the only voice fighting against it. It's kinda how certain politicians fled a state recently to avoid voting, and then were upset because votes were held why they were derelict in their duty. Reimbursement has been inconsistent for years, we all know that. It largely depended on who got your case whether or not you'd get reimbursed. While we may not agree with the stated Reimbursement policy at least it is there for all of us to see now, which is better than what we had before. We all know the servers can't handle thousands in a system, yet everyone keeps sending thousands into them. A gentlemen's agreement not to send more than 300 on each side into a fight would probably help more than anything CCP can do. This doesn't mean you couldn't have reinforcements next door to replace losses. Lag is a problem I'm not going to deny that. It was better prior to Dominion, which means the problem most likely lies in the Dominion code. However it can never be completely eliminated as our technology level isn't high enough to do so.
Aurora Xadi	Posted - 2011.03.19 05:19:00 - [53] What "bang", some guy didn't get preferential treatment from the GM department like the important internet politician he thinks he is so he threw a sissy fit and resigned when his turn is over anyway.
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.19 06:43:00 - [54] So Vuk Lau loses a titan and tries to use his CSM position to get CCP to give it back. I am not surprised by this. Quitting the CSM in a temper tantrum is also not surprising. You got what you deserved Vuk. You have been the biggest opposition to fixing 0.0 and pushed for it to remain the same stale and stagnant ultra power block **** it has been for a long time now. The funny thing about all this the fact that the CSM alternate that will take your place, will easily be more active in the last two weeks of the term than you have been for the entire term. Let's face it, you will not be missed. Hell, you were never really there to begin with. If CCP decides to remove/nerf jump bridges, you going to quit the game too?
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.19 07:29:00 - [55] Good riddance? If VuksÆ post is representative of his ability to communicate, just how valuable could he have been? IÆve little patience for quitters, especially when there was so little time left in his tenure. I donÆt much care for ôThe Mittaniö, but I donÆt really see how he benefits from Vuk resigning. Speaking solely for myself, petitions are usually met with courtesy and some attempt at reasonable resolution. No, not all GMÆs are created equal and this is why CCP put in the ability to escalate a situation to a higher, more senior, GM and/or review board. IÆve only had to escalate a petition once and the situation was quickly taken care of when I did. I havenÆt experienced any worse customer support from the GMÆs than I have from any other customer support team. Other people are obviously having issues, but IÆve never seen a company that didnÆt have a similar situation. The CSM has largely disappointed me as it has others. However, CSM5 did make some serious contributions to the game of EVE. I donÆt agree with everything they did and didnÆt do, but some of the things they did were absolutely for the improvement of the game and were an invaluable platform for feedback to CCP. CCP has disappointed me as well, over the years, however they do seem to be growing up a bit and have pleasantly surprised me of late. Am I in love with all their decisions? Heck no, but they do show signs of improvement. Seems like Vuk had himself a little hissy fit and thatÆs just about it. I doubt it will have any sort of lasting effect. More likely people will forget about this in a couple months. -Windjammer
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.19 08:19:00 - [56] . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Kayl Breinhar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 08:59:00 - [57] Originally by: General Windypops I feel kind of bad now, Mittens. Sorry for ruining your big drama. More time to work on next week's though, eh? Remember people THEY'RE LYING TO YOU. Mittens said so. And he knows a lot about manipulation. He's saving us from those evil lies. This coming from the guy whose platform is basically "I promise to glare meanly at 'Mittens & Co.' and be as obstructionist as possible simply to screw over those dumb goonies while enjoying my free trip to Iceland hey guys MYYYYY turbo diesel estate sportscar."
Pherick Sjang Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 09:57:00 - [58] Edited by: Pherick Sjang on 19/03/2011 09:58:09 For those of you unable to read, let me 'splain it to you. He's not going "zomg i dint get preferential treatment, im quitting!" He's resigning because the GMs, as a whole, tend towards incompetence and very obvious bias, and all attempts to get the issue addressed fell on (predictably) deaf ears, meaning the only way to raise awareness of the problem was through a big, public gesture. CCP, CSM candidates, LISTEN UP! The players are speaking. GM incompetence. Institutionalized bias. Unfair reimbursement policies. Ridiculous nerfs to 0.0. Unwillingness to accept player input. THESE ARE THINGS THAT CONCERN US.
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.19 10:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Pherick Sjang very obvious bias You mean like all those NC super capital ships that died and were respawned after down time and CCP let them keep them? Originally by: Pherick Sjang Unfair Ridiculous nerfs to 0.0. Unwillingness to accept player input. Still worried jump bridges will be nerfed and the entire NC power block will collapse over night and you will be subjected to having to put forth :effort: into living there? I welcome the idea of logistics and power projection that requires effort again. Oh yeah, those ideas were brought up by the player base and CCP is listened. Vuk is just hoping to pull a "I'm resigning because of microtransaction on remap!" bit like T'Amber did.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.03.19 10:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Pherick Sjang Edited by: Pherick Sjang on 19/03/2011 09:58:09 For those of you unable to read, let me 'splain it to you. He's not going "zomg i dint get preferential treatment, im quitting!" He's resigning because the GMs, as a whole, tend towards incompetence and very obvious bias, and all attempts to get the issue addressed fell on (predictably) deaf ears, meaning the only way to raise awareness of the problem was through a big, public gesture. CCP, CSM candidates, LISTEN UP! The players are speaking. GM incompetence. Institutionalized bias. Unfair reimbursement policies. Ridiculous nerfs to 0.0. Unwillingness to accept player input. THESE ARE THINGS THAT CONCERN US. The bias has existed as long as I've played, the Devs are themselves biased always have been. It exists in every game. It happens because most of the GM pool is always taken from the player pool, as such they have friends and inevitably will be more lenient towards friends than foes. I think that's why CCP published for the first time a Reembursement policy since I've been here, they wanted to work on improving what would happen, we may not like what it says but it is progress at least we all know where we stand now and that works to remove bias. At the same time it removes the wiggle room GMs used in the past. In a way Vuk was successful just not in the way he wanted. Quitting something because you are not getting the result you want in the timeframe you want is not heroic. It only silences the voice that might could have continued the fight. You remove a voice that could have brought these issues up at FanFest, instead he cops out and quits.

Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.03.19 10:42:00 - [61] CSM drama, best drama \o/
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.03.19 11:00:00 - [62] Why are people even bringing up Vuks lost titan like it means anything? You do realize he is the leader of one of the richest Alliances/Coalitions in the game. His personal lost titan really doesn't mean ****. However it is apparent that CCPs attitude towards a lot of issues has been at a steady decline for quite sometime.
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.19 11:00:00 - [63] Originally by: El'Niaga Quitting something because you are not getting the result you want in the timeframe you want is not heroic. It only silences the voice that might could have continued the fight. You remove a voice that could have brought these issues up at FanFest, instead he cops out and quits. You summed it up right there. CCP didn't bend to his, "I'm the NC leader and on the CSM so no changes to 0.0 to keep it boring and all NC ships are to be respawned after down time for us if we lose any!" CCP won't auto-reimburse NC ships and wants to nerf logistics and power projection for super coalition and he quits like a little emo *****.
Orkasm Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.19 12:16:00 - [64] Originally by: Marconus Orion Originally by: El'Niaga Quitting something because you are not getting the result you want in the timeframe you want is not heroic. It only silences the voice that might could have continued the fight. You remove a voice that could have brought these issues up at FanFest, instead he cops out and quits. You summed it up right there. CCP didn't bend to his, "I'm the NC leader and on the CSM so no changes to 0.0 to keep it boring and all NC ships are to be respawned after down time for us if we lose any!" CCP won't auto-reimburse NC ships and wants to nerf logistics and power projection for super coalition and he quits like a little emo *****. Try reading the op a little harder, mabye you could gain some insite as to why he quit the CSM. Until then STOP SPURGING it makes my eyes bleed.
Mynxee Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.03.19 12:32:00 - [65] Originally by: The Mittani CSM5 is ending with a bang, given this and the Open Letter re: Incarna drama. More like tempest in a teapot. No one really cares, with only two weeks or so left in our term. If he really wants to demonstrate how **ed off he is, he should just cancel all his accounts and quit EVE. Chair, CSM5** CSM6 Page on Facebook--keep up with all candidates in one place!
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.19 12:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Orkasm Try reading the op a little harder, mabye you could gain some insite as to why he quit the CSM. Until then STOP SPURGING it makes my eyes bleed. What I read was he was trying to help some of his friends with some petitions and it is not going his way. So he gave up and quit. Does he use his CSM influence to try and help non-blues with their petitions? Also your posting is some of the worst.
Winternight Depression	Posted - 2011.03.19 15:18:00 - [67]
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.19 15:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Mynxee Edited by: Mynxee on 19/03/2011 12:41:23 Re Vuk: More like a tempest in a teapot. No one really cares, with only two weeks or so left in our term. If he really wants to demonstrate how ***ed off he is, he should just cancel all his accounts and quit EVE. 1. Mynxee: Best CSM (w/Diedra Vaal!). 2. Vuk quit. That's what it looks like. If he really* wanted to push his agenda, he would have made CCP pay his way to Iceland, then made a REAL stink. In every meeting that he could get into. Far as I can see, all he did was quit (but, +points for giving the alternate a couple weeks notice). 3. mittens: No one doubts he's going to get into the CSM, because of his name, and his affiliations. However, because of who he is (super serious internets space-lawyer) - he will be no more effective than Jade Constantine was. ENTIRELY because he's such a divisive figure. And possibly even less effective... No one will trust what he has to say, because he's said so many times that he's a lying manipulative bastard (re: lawyer). RE: The O/P: I've done about a half dozen petitions. Got fast turn around on the important ones, decent service on the rest. vOv Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.03.19 16:21:00 - [69] He probably couldn't get off from work to go to FF and decided to use the opportunity for grand standing CSM5 is all but wrapped up so he loses nothing and gains points with whomever is gullible enough (or do not follow politics in general).. Guess this constitutes the CSM version of 'emoragequit' which is in all honesty what I have come to expect from the MeMeMeMe crowd living in null currently.
DaiTengu Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 17:23:00 - [70] Edited by: DaiTengu on 19/03/2011 17:23:42 I completely understand where Vuk was coming from. I had a petition in once where a POS magically warped to another moon that already had a POS, so there was a POS inside of a POS. The modules on the pos that moved remained at the old place. You couldn't change settings on either POS because they were in each other's POS bubbles, so tearing it down wasn't an option. It took THREE WEEKS to resolve the situation. It was eventually solved by a GM manning the "stuck" queue who just destroyed one POS and re-created it. that's all we wanted. It took another week after that for the original GM to reply with "sorry we can't reimburse you for the lost minerals you would have mined! lulz!" which we expected anyway. This is just the most flagrant example of terrible GM petitions. I've had plenty of petitions responded to with canned responses because they weren't read completely (or at all). I don't expect 1 hour turn arounds on petitions, but a little competency, and SOME timeliness (or responses claiming to be "working on the issue") would be a massive improvement. Besides, it's not like I'm petitioning "hay my toonie got blown up in his mommie by smarties and i lost a bunch of iskies can i hav it bak plzzz mr gm sirrrrrrrr"

Pherick Sjang Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 18:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Marconus Orion Originally by: Pherick Sjang very obvious bias You mean like all those NC super capital ships that died and were respawned after down time and CCP let them keep them? Nah, I was thinking more of exploits like.. oh.. I dunno.. duping. And, you know, the general CCP belief that nullsec must be nerfed to hell at worst and ignored at best while they focus their efforts on improving life for the hisec mission runners and Jita undock campers. Originally by: Pherick Sjang Unfair Ridiculous nerfs to 0.0. Unwillingness to accept player input. Still worried jump bridges will be nerfed and the entire NC power block will collapse over night and you will be subjected to having to put forth :effort: into living there? I welcome the idea of logistics and power projection that requires effort again. Oh yeah, those ideas were brought up by the player base and CCP is listened. Vuk is just hoping to pull a "I'm resigning because of microtransaction on remap!" bit like T'Amber did. Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to live in nullsec -now-? How much work it takes to import materials, construct ships, distribute ships to market hubs? How much of a pain in the ass it is to get fleets formed up and moving to their destination? Power projection won't really be negatively impacted, but the lives of individual players will be made about 10 times harder than they need to be. Those ideas were brought up by ***goty hisec mission runners in terrible 8 member corps, much like yourself.
Ripard Teg Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:01:00 - [72] I have written a blog post with my comments on this. -- Ripard Teg Jester's Trek, wherein I ramble about EVE and my run for CSM6.
Leia Hertz	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:03:00 - [73] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Vuk Lau Last night I resigned as CSM delegate. One of my main goals was pointing how horrible CCP customer support is. For me this was top priority especially if we take into consideration that EVE is extremely complex, undocumented and bugged product. Eve is working as intended. While Eve might have some bugs here and there; it isn't perfect because nothing humanity makes is perfect. Vuk is mad he isn't #winning and does an /emoragequit? Priceless! Eve is a fascinating simulation of the human condition and is maliciously clever in separating the winners and the losers according to merit and ability and the willingness to win. In Eve as in life, you really only have three choices when presented with a situation--You adapt to the situation or you ***** about how the situation should be or you let the situation make the decision for you. It looks like the situation made the decision for Vuk, so can I have your stuff when you /emoragequit?
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:12:00 - [74] ex-tri posters remind me a lot of bob posters; their arguments all amount to a smug declaration that they and only they know the 'right' way to play eve online, followed by demands that anyone else's way of playing be removed asap 'for the good of the game' i suppose that explains why such personalities constantly clashed and resulted in like seven alliance cascades/respawns The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Legal Assistant	Posted - 2011.03.19 19:42:00 - [75] Originally by: The Mittani ex-tri posters remind me a lot of bob posters; their arguments all amount to a smug declaration that they and only they know the 'right' way to play eve online, followed by demands that anyone else's way of playing be removed asap 'for the good of the game' As opposed to you claiming that you, and only you, know the "right" way to run the CSM, followed by assertions that you should be Chairman "for the good of the game"?
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2011.03.19 21:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Pherick Sjang Those ideas were brought up by ***goty hisec mission runners in terrible 8 member corps, much like yourself. Obvious bias is obvious... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Zemkhoff	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:22:00 - [77] Originally by: The Mittani ex-tri posters remind me a lot of bob posters; their arguments all amount to a smug declaration that they and only they know the 'right' way to play eve online, followed by demands that anyone else's way of playing be removed asap 'for the good of the game' i suppose that explains why such personalities constantly clashed and resulted in like seven alliance cascades/respawns glass houses and all
Gertrud ToD Terrorists of Dimensions Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:29:00 - [78] so vuk lau is resigning at the end of his csm period? resigning at the end seriously sets a sign. rofl. end-of-cycle-csm trying to have a cool ending.
Rgarcia	Posted - 2011.03.20 01:26:00 - [79] Edited by: Rgarcia on 20/03/2011 01:26:57 Mittani, you are really trying hard to win. I lol when I read that post. It seems only one, not more than one, but one person was upset over ccp cust service. All the other CSMs were fine with ccp. One disgruntled guy cries and you use it for trying to get people believing YOU will be the man to do stuff. lol It seems you are getting desperate! What else will you pull out of your azzhat?
Two step Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:00:00 - [80] Look, it is simple. If Vuk actually wanted to make a statement, he should have posted this stupid thread himself. Letting mittani create the thread is a pretty damn clear indicator of what this whole thing is actually all about. Two step for CSM6 - http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/

The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Rgarcia Edited by: Rgarcia on 20/03/2011 01:26:57 Mittani, you are really trying hard to win. I lol when I read that post. It seems only one, not more than one, but one person was upset over ccp cust service. All the other CSMs were fine with ccp. One disgruntled guy cries and you use it for trying to get people believing YOU will be the man to do stuff. lol It seems you are getting desperate! What else will you pull out of your azzhat? post some more about how scamming makes you a bad person, i loved your earlier work The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
Vuk Lau 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:38:00 - [82] Originally by: Marconus Orion Originally by: Orkasm Try reading the op a little harder, mabye you could gain some insite as to why he quit the CSM. Until then STOP SPURGING it makes my eyes bleed. What I read was he was trying to help some of his friends with some petitions and it is not going his way. So he gave up and quit. Does he use his CSM influence to try and help non-blues with their petitions? Also your posting is some of the worst. I was being involved in 5 times more petitions for neutrals/reds then for the blues in last year or so, there goes your **ty trol. Also if you have halfbrain you would know that GMs cant know that anyone else is writing the petitions cause sharing private communication with CCP employees is breach of TOS/EULA. Originally by:** Hirana Yoshida He probably couldn't get off from work to go to FF and decided to use the opportunity for grand standing I am running my own company so its not a problem for me to give myself days off :p Originally by: Two step Look, it is simple. If Vuk actually wanted to make a statement, he should have posted this stupid thread himself. Letting mittani create the thread is a pretty damn clear indicator of what this whole thing is actually all about. I initially posted the thread on the RAWR forums only and later in the evening on the NC HC and RZR forums. Despite knowing this will eventually end posted publicly it was not aimed for the general population. I had an option to travel to Iceland and raise my concerns on roundtables and panels but I already did that on 5-6-7 previous Iceland trips. Also as I said despite looking forward seeing a lot of chill EVE players and CCP guys/girls I would eventually see a lot of CCP dudes I think all the worse (professionally not personally ofc). As getting older my tolerance bar for stupidity is bellow ground zero so I would either have to contain "anger" inside myself (which is unhealthy) or to cast rage publicly which will not serve the purpose.
White Tree	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:49:00 - [83] Edited by: White Tree on 20/03/2011 02:50:10 Quote: You see I do not like Vuk Lau even though I have never spoken to him. Now let me tell you about my thoughts on the NC, This is basically what a lot of you dumbdumbs are doing itt.
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 05:47:00 - [84] Originally by: The Mittani ex-tri posters remind me a lot of bob posters; their arguments all amount to a smug declaration that they and only they know the 'right' way to play eve online, followed by demands that anyone else's way of playing be removed asap 'for the good of the game' There will never be a 100% agreement between players on how the game should be. You know this. Everyone will debate till they turn blue in the face because they truly believe their version is the right one. It is a never ending battle. Do you agree? The one key factor is time. Players willingness to travel a certain amount of time to get to a target varies. The longer it takes for a player to get there, the number of players wanting to make the trip goes down and down. This applies to many things. Same for the market. Buy a module for 2.5 million ISK at the station your in or travel 19 jumps away to buy the same module for 2.49 million ISK. Is traveling 19 jumps to save 10k ISK really worth the players time? Of course not. Do you agree? I am one of the players who would like to see smaller local wars in 0.0. In order for this to happen it means iteration on the sov system, moons, POS's, local resources, more space, mining, nerf, boosts, balancing, blah, blah, blah... Then so **ing be it. Power projection has become easier and easier in this game due to game changes and more players playing. At what point does it slow down? When a coalition can click a button, appear next to a small tower on the opposite side of the galaxy that a ten man corp setup as a stating point for some exploration, obliterate the tower and corp in a matter of seconds, click a button and have their armada of thousands of ships instantly be teleported back in time for lunch? If that same armada was told they had to take every gate to get to the ten man small tower that had no moon value, no space value, would you still get the same number of pilots? If you want it to remain a power block haven then so be it. At least give you opinion and stand by it instead of just looking at someone's alliance history as a cop out to letting everyone know where you stand on what the game should be. Is the current version of 0.0 the way you think it should be? I honestly don't expect you to answer me in any sensible way. Not without every second word being about some comment on T20 or a persons alliance history, neither adding anything of value to your statement. Originally by:** The Mittani i suppose that explains why such personalities constantly clashed and resulted in like seven alliance cascades/respawns Is Goonswarm still on its first version? If so then why does it say Goonswarm Federation?
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.20 07:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Marconus Orion Originally by: The Mittani ex-tri posters remind me a lot of bob posters; their arguments all amount to a smug declaration that they and only they know the 'right' way to play eve online, followed by demands that anyone else's way of playing be removed asap 'for the good of the game' There will never be a 100% agreement between players on how the game should be. Except, of course, this ignores the actual issue. Most nullsec folks simply want to play the game they want to play it. If other people want to form small pirate alliances, or mercenary alliances, or play in lowsec, or play in FW in lowsec, or play in wormholes, or run missions in Empire until their fingers fall off, then they're fine with that. They just want to play the game their way. Then there are others who declare that small PvP is better than everything. Or mid-sized PvP is better than everything. Or roaming gangs are better than everything. Or what have you. And then they declare that the game mechanics themselves have to be changed to boost that play style and nerf opposing play styles. Some go even further and rage while trying to argue for reasons that people shouldn't freely associate in a sandbox game and form political structures as they see fit in a game that's driven by player-created content. Quote: I am one of the players who would like to see smaller local wars in 0.0. In order for this to happen it means iteration on the sov system, moons, POS's, local resources, more space, mining, nerf, boosts, balancing, blah, blah, blah... Actually, it means you need to find some other people who also want small local wars, and go fight them instead of trying to change those who want large, trans-regional wars. It's a solution so obvious that you've gone right past it and onto trying to force through game mechanics changes to stop other people playing the way they want. It's just as wrong, and for the same reasons, as someone who only wanted large-scale inter-regional conflicts and demanded that small fleets be nerfed. Quote: Is Goonswarm still on its first version? For all practical purposes, yes. The Goons did not cascade anymore than BoB/KenZoku did before we kicked them out of their space. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 08:39:00 - [86] So FinnAgain, what you are basically saying is that you believe all the players in 0.0, when it comes to PvP should be between huge power blocks and if it is small to medium sized PvP they should go somewhere else besides 0.0? Do you also believe that all the current game mechanics that are associated with 0.0 are working perfectly?
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.20 08:55:00 - [87] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 20/03/2011 08:56:43 Originally by: Marconus Orion you are basically saying is that you believe all the players in 0.0, when it comes to PvP should be between huge power blocks and if it is small to medium sized PvP they should go somewhere else besides 0.0 No. Not only is that not "basically" what I said, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. And of course not all 0.0 mechanics are working perfectly. But that also has nothing to do with your desire to deliberately alter game mechanics in order nerf play styles you don't like in order boost play styles you do like. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:10:00 - [88] Then what are you saying? You do a **** ton of talking without actually saying anything. Maybe they should limit the amount of characters in your post to that of a Tweet or a Haiku so you don't bury what you want to say with a bunch of nonsense.
lisa herrick	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:13:00 - [89] well spoken lady spanky - you look to be truely spankworthy !
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.20 09:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Marconus Orion Then what are you saying? Hint: what I actually said. Originally by: Marconus Orion without actually saying anything. Your failure to comprehend is not an error on my part. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!

Pherick Sjang Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:06:00 - [91] Originally by: "Marconus Orion" qq everything is so hard for a **ing ** like me to understand, o i kno, i'll troll and * and whine! The problem 10 man corps have with getting set up in 0.0 is not mega powerblocks crossing the whole map to crush them. If anyone is crushing them, it's the locals. The real problem though is that the logistics of feasibly holding any amount of territory in nullsec are such that, even if no giant powerblocs or jump bridges existed, it would be nearly impossible without a space-rich, organized group that had reached a certain critical mass size-wise. Such a group could hold 10 systems just as easily as holding one. TL;DR version: It's too hard because SOV mechanics are too **ed up and the basic level of logistical organization needed is absurdly high. Plz learn to troll better.
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 11:15:00 - [92] Originally by: Pherick Sjang The problem 10 man corps have with getting set up in 0.0 is not mega powerblocks crossing the whole map to crush them. If anyone is crushing them, it's the locals. If only the locals were not part of the same power block that spans the the other side of the map... Originally by: Pherick Sjang The real problem though is that the logistics of feasibly holding any amount of territory in nullsec are such that, even if no giant powerblocs or jump bridges existed, it would be nearly impossible without a space-rich, organized group that had reached a certain critical mass size-wise. Such a group could hold 10 systems just as easily as holding one. So make improvements in how residents can utilize their own space to survive instead of having to constantly suck on Jita's tit? Originally by: Pherick Sjang TL;DR version: It's too hard because SOV mechanics are too **ed up and the basic level of logistical organization needed is absurdly high. I agree. The current sov system is ed up. If CCP made some improves into local resource gathering in addition to removing titan and POS jump bridges, other things like blockade runners, black ops, jump frieghters and freighter escorts would be more than enough for logistics. Your problem is you have the mentality of, "Why should I have to put forth effort into logistics when there is Sanctums to be farmed?" on the brain. Originally by:** Pherick Sjang Plz learn to troll better. So what improvements to sov could CCP do to improve on say, paying for a sov bill? They could make it fully automated so each month it pays the bill and people don't wake up to no sov at all.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Marconus Orion If only the locals were not part of the same power block that spans the the other side of the map... Try doing the same thing in, say, delve, querious or period basis. There's probably no JB network there now (that's being used for defensive purposes anyways, I've no idea how the 3 corps still left in IT are using it, if at all), then come back and *** and moan like the little * you are about "power bloc" (not block) that spans "the the" other side of the map. Originally by:** Marconus Orion So make improvements in how residents can utilize their own space to survive instead of having to constantly suck on Jita's tit? Tell CCP that. They're the ones that have essentially made it so deklein can't make more than 6 minutes worth of T2 ammo for a full maelstrom fleet (the slowest firing BS in the game), or 2 days worth of ratting ammo (i.e. missiles) pr day, which means we essentially HAVE to suck on Jita's teat (not tit). And that's during peace-time. Imagine doing the same thing during wartime. Originally by: Marconus Orion I agree. The current sov system is **ed up. If CCP made some improves into local resource gathering in addition to removing titan and POS jump bridges, other things like blockade runners, black ops, jump frieghters and freighter escorts would be more than enough for logistics. What kind of local resource gathering would you propose to make it easy to gather sufficient amount of minerals etc to build up (and maintain) a subcap, capital and supercapital fleet (let alone POSes, POS fuel, non-combat ships, etc etc etc) within a reasonable amount of solar systems? Keep in mind that with the current game mechanics, 1 neutral/red guy sitting in a solar system, cloaked and possibly even AFK, is enough to completely shut it down for industrial uses. Originally by:** Marconus Orion Your problem is you have the mentality of, "Why should I have to put forth effort into logistics when there is Sanctums to be farmed?" on the brain. When was the last time you actually lived in 0.0?
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:34:00 - [94] Originally by: Lord Zim Keep in mind that with the current game mechanics, 1 neutral/red guy sitting in a solar system, cloaked and possibly even AFK, is enough to completely shut it down for industrial uses. Why is everyone so afraid of the AFK cloaker?
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.20 12:36:00 - [95] So what you are saying is if I invaded NC all 55k of their bandwagon wouldnt join in, because theres some pets I would like to kill, would go after RAWR but you guys have yaay and well thats an IWIN button on its own. The funny thing about the last several comments is the Orion guy brings up pretty valid points that most people criticise the NC for anyway. You guys are trying to make it easier for yourself just so you can jew up more moon goo and make it easier to control more space. Oh and an alliance doesnt just have to have 5 people manage the logistics, the whole idea of 0.0 is group work not 5 people get the credit for 5000 people :P . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:03:00 - [96] Originally by: Marconus Orion freighter escorts Ahaha do you even PvP? How do you suggest I escort a freighter? A 15 man fleet averaging 400 dps will kill a freighter in 30 seconds and they certainly aren't going to shoot the escort first. People regularly drop dreads on jump freighters at bridges just for fun. Perhaps a freighter 'escort' should be 2000 people so that the nodes can't fit any hostiles.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:20:00 - [97] Originally by: Marconus Orion Why is everyone so afraid of the AFK cloaker? Because the AFK cloakers can easily be containing a cyno to hotdrop a ratting carrier/supercarrier, or they can easily provide just enough DPS to supplement rats to kill off your mining or ratting ship. And there's ****-all you can do about them short of ignoring them, which will get you killed. This isn't rocket science.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:31:00 - [98] Originally by: Kalle Demos So what you are saying is if I invaded NC all 55k of their bandwagon wouldnt join in, because theres some pets I would like to kill, would go after RAWR but you guys have yaay and well thats an IWIN button on its own. How many *gots from DC are even close to deploying in force to geminate right now? Originally by:** Kalle Demos The funny thing about the last several comments is the Orion guy brings up pretty valid points that most people criticise the NC for anyway. You guys are trying to make it easier for yourself just so you can jew up more moon goo and make it easier to control more space. I usually don't do this, but I'm having a hard time taking anyone with 42 kills over a 3 year period seriously when it comes to how 0.0 works. Originally by: Kalle Demos Oh and an alliance doesnt just have to have 5 people manage the logistics, the whole idea of 0.0 is group work not 5 people get the credit for 5000 people :P How many, pray tell, do you think are involved in logistics in all of DC, or even goonswarm?
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:35:00 - [99] Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 20/03/2011 13:37:42 Guys you dont get it owning space in 0.0 is supposed to be awful and tedious and not even slightly fun! You're supposed to spend hours every day escorting freighters around and babysitting miners! What do you think this is, some kind of game? -----------------
Marconus Orion Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:46:00 - [100] Why do people in the Northern Coalition keep saying they are in the Deklein Coalition? There is a coalition within a coalition???

Devilish Ledoux Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:51:00 - [101] Anyone who makes the serious argument that CCP should "do something to break up power blocs" is an utter moron. People will play with whoever they want to play with. Before alliances existed in-game, corporations worked together. I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood. There are no game play mechanics that can dictate who players want to associate with. Never mind that virtually all of the organizational tools to organize and maintain Eve's power blocs are done via third party sites and platforms that CCP can't control. If you want to "BREAK UP THE NC OH GOD" then YOU'RE going to have to do it. Don't sit on your ass and expect CCP to handle it. Players took down Phoenix Alliance, Ascendant Frontier, Band of Brothers (and all their vassals), and IT Alliance (and all THEIR vassals). Now let's get back on topic. CCP's GM team needs serious improvement. There are lots of possible causes and possible solutions. Try to come up with some, instead of crying about how the NC is killing Eve.
Lord Zim Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.20 14:57:00 - [102] Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do people in the Northern Coalition keep saying they are in the Deklein Coalition? There is a coalition within a coalition??? Is this really your best comeback to my post? Really?
Alty McExpendable Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.20 21:29:00 - [103] I think I've subscribed for the last time now...CCP just keeps on astounding me with short-sighted maneuvering and terrible expansions. And grossly terrible forum mods--I can't believe I'm asking for Zymurgist back. Shadow wasn't so bad, either.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.21 06:59:00 - [104] Originally by: Devil <something> "if you want to kill 55k people just do it, all it takes is a few rifters, trust me im a goon" This thread wasnt even anything todo with KILLING NC, it is todo with mechanics and the fact that Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW because GMs wont give him special treatment. NC make a campaign to take over CSM focusing on making 0.0 easier, they also announce that the whole 'Controlling CSM' was to protect jump bridges and PUNISH non-sov holding alliances. Then about two weeks later, Mittani pops up and goes "they are all lying to you", rages about something that makes no sense, flames everyone that isnt him, then ***es like a little girl on k.com Can you really expect anyone (that isnt brown nosing) to take you guys serious. Not only that Mittani couldnt even answer questions on the Vote Match and half of his answers were "CCP have a back log" yeh no **. We are aware of how to kill NC with the current mechanics, it doesnt take a genius to work out what would happen if everyone aligned and took out NC. The problem is, the second you guys are dead DRF will replace you, how is that any better than the current situation, the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare that makes it impossible todo anything WITHOUT huge numbers THIS is the problem. Do explain how this is considered good game play? . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.03.21 08:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Kalle Demos ...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW... I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?" I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame? CLICK HERE NOW TO VOTE TO RE-ELECT TREBOR!
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.21 08:57:00 - [106] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Originally by: Kalle Demos ...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW... I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?" I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame? haha Funny enough that was only included towards the end, reply felt too normal without it. . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Vuk Lau 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:28:00 - [107] Originally by: Kalle Demos Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Originally by: Kalle Demos ...Vuk Lau quit EVE for WOW... I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?" I think you've stepped over the line here, Kalle. Have you no shame? haha Funny enough that was only included towards the end, reply felt too normal without it. In the TreborLand wife beats you :wink: When it comes to community dudes - is anyone missing Kieron?
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.03.21 09:45:00 - [108] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I think it's a low blow to even imply that that Vuk would play WOW. That's the EVE equivalent of "When did you stop beating your wife?" Vuk Lau is a wife-beater?
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.21 10:13:00 - [109] The question still remains, why did Mittani even make this thread? All it did was make NC look worse than it is (if thats even possible), Mittani look like a inconsistent sociopath (which was obvious) and Vuk Lau like an emotional kid throwing a tantrum (:yaay:). Im sure this wasnt the plan but with Mittani trying so hard to mimic his predecessors its hard to tell . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Kalle Demos The problem is, the second you guys are dead DRF will replace you, how is that any better than the current situation, the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare that makes it impossible todo anything WITHOUT huge numbers THIS is the problem. The game mechanics don't promote blobbing - human nature does that all by itself. I don't see CCP being able to change that in any expansion or patch.

Mel Lifera Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:59:00 - [111] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood. Jesus, there's some sick people playing this game.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 18:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Mel Lifera Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I can't speak for ALL of the current power blocs, but the Northern Coalition and Deklein Coalition are bound together (both within their own members and to each other) by bonds of friendship and mutual spaceship brotherhood. Jesus, there's some sick people playing this game. No kidding. HowÆd you like to read the, ômutual spaceship brotherhoodö, line right after breakfast. ItÆs the most important meal of the day and would be a tragedy to lose. Talk about your gag factor. -Windjammer
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.21 20:46:00 - [113] Originally by: Kalle Demos The question still remains, why did Mittani even make this thread? All it did was make NC look worse than it is (if thats even possible), Mittani look like a inconsistent sociopath (which was obvious) and Vuk Lau like an emotional kid throwing a tantrum (:yaay:). Im sure this wasnt the plan but with Mittani trying so hard to mimic his predecessors its hard to tell I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. He expected us to be outraged, at marvel the martyrdom of Vuk taking a stand. Instead all it proved is that one of Mitten's main rolemodels on the CSM and closest allies had a childish tantrum and tried to influence the petitions of his friends. Cripes. CSM 6: Let's get Windypops indypops.
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:41:00 - [114] Originally by: Vuk Lau In the TreborLand wife beats you :wink: Those of you fortunate enough to meet my wife at FanFest will quickly realize that (a) this is true and (b) she makes it hurt sooo good. CLICK HERE NOW TO VOTE TO RE-ELECT TREBOR!
Mel Lifera Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.21 21:51:00 - [115] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Vuk Lau Last night I resigned as CSM delegate. One of my main goals was pointing how horrible CCP customer support is. For me this was top priority especially if we take into consideration that EVE is extremely complex, undocumented and bugged product. Sadly I didnt had support from both the rest of the CSM and from the CCP. CCP is living in their heaven of faulty statistic and biased circlejerk reports. As some of you know when I raised the issue of INcompetence of GM department http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Competence_of_the_GM_department_ CSM http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1135590 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1137322 and during the meeting I realized how deeply goes the problem of customer support. Anyway after raising that issue I received plenty of :facepalm: material from customers and from the current and former GMs who were unhappy how things are working. Later on, many of the pilots were contacting me for help with petitions where i even further realized how crappy things are. I started preparing issue to be raised again, but didnt got any feedback from CCP, just to be surprised with one of the most embarrassing devblogs ever - Devblog about change of the reimbursement policies. I already started boiling, but then this week happened, the week before the Fanfest trip. I had 4 personal petitions (I will not even touch the subject of petitions I am handling for other players because of :facepalm:) in last couple of days, 2 are still unanswered, 1 is escalated and 1 I closed after two GMs copy/pasting answers without even reading what I wrote. This combined with embarrassing discussion about 0.0 future with main game designers resulted in my decision to resign. I know I have only 2 weeks left, but going on Fanfest and smiling there how CSM is awesome :stakeholders: while I got nothing but crap in the face from CCP will be something I would regret it. Not to mention that I would most likely barely restrain from raping some of them. snip Tl;dr - CSM member expected to get his way, but didn't get his way and was so distraught over the resulting moral dilemma that he had no choice but to resign two weeks before his term was up.
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:47:00 - [116] Originally by: General Windypops I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. He expected us to be outraged, at marvel the martyrdom of Vuk taking a stand. Instead all it proved is that one of Mitten's main rolemodels on the CSM and closest allies had a childish tantrum and tried to influence the petitions of his friends. Originally by: The Mittani TheyÆre lying to you. All the promises from the CSM candidates, all the æissuesÆ and æfeaturesÆ theyÆre going to address - itÆs all a pack of lies. For years now we have witnessed the same ritual take place in every CSM election. The candidates line up and tell you what they would do if they were given the power to be a game designer. During the first CSM summit CCP made it clear that they arenÆt looking for amateur game developers, and on this fact they have never wavered. Yet the candidates have woven the same tapestry of lies for each successive election. TheyÆd remove local, theyÆd make it harder to suicide gank, theyÆd protect the interests of the common player (whatever the hell that means), theyÆd bring æreal reformÆ to CCP. Quite how you interpreted the above as Mittens asserting "that CCP don't care about CSM" is beyond me. Vote for me, I have solid reasoning and comprehension skills.
General Windypops The Littlest Hobos En Garde	Posted - 2011.03.21 22:56:00 - [117] Edited by: General Windypops on 21/03/2011 22:57:41 Originally by: Imigo Montoya Originally by: General Windypops I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. Originally by: The Mittani TheyÆre lying to you. All the promises from the CSM candidates, all the æissuesÆ and æfeaturesÆ theyÆre going to address - itÆs all a pack of lies. For years now we have witnessed the same ritual take place in every CSM election. The candidates line up and tell you what they would do if they were given the power to be a game designer. During the first CSM summit CCP made it clear that they arenÆt looking for amateur game developers, and on this fact they have never wavered. Yet the candidates have woven the same tapestry of lies for each successive election. TheyÆd remove local, theyÆd make it harder to suicide gank, theyÆd protect the interests of the common player (whatever the hell that means), theyÆd bring æreal reformÆ to CCP. Quite how you interpreted the above as Mittens asserting "that CCP don't care about CSM" is beyond me. Vote for me, I have solid reasoning and comprehension skills. Keep working on those "solid reasoning and comprehension skills", kiddo. Originally by: The Mittani We play their game, we pay their upkeep, we use their features and we suffer from their shortsightedness. For this they give us one resource, the CSM, and they treat it like a mere focus group, not a stakeholder to be respected. CSM 6: Let's get Windypops indypops.
Mel Lifera Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:32:00 - [118] Edited by: Mel Lifera on 22/03/2011 00:32:58 Mittens' emorage is subtle and sophomoric. Rather like a young student who's just figured out that the Student Council president can't really do anything about lessening the amount of homework or getting better food in the lunchroom, and decides that the Student Council is therefore worthless.
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:33:00 - [119] Originally by: General Windypops Keep working on those "solid reasoning and comprehension skills", kiddo. No, see, in order for an insult about reading skills to have any weight, the person saying it has to not demonstrate their cluelessness in that very comment. Mittens said, correctly, that CCP treats the CSM as a focus group. That doesn't mean that they don't care about them, just that they care about them only as a focus group. This is basic. Then again, as you're still hunting after a conspiracy theory, maybe that point is lost. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain!
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:35:00 - [120] Originally by: General Windypops I think it was a pre-arranged stunt by Mittens supposed to 'prove' his assertion ("They're lying to you") that CCP don't care about the CSM. The assertion made that you referenced ("They're lying to you") is very much referring to the CSM candidates who are promising all kinds of shiny stuff and new features, not CCP. Originally by: The Mittani We play their game, we pay their upkeep, we use their features and we suffer from their shortsightedness. For this they give us one resource, the CSM, and they treat it like a mere focus group, not a stakeholder to be respected. Mittens asserts that CCP are treating CSM as a focus group not a stakeholder. This is somewhat distinct from asserting that they don't care about it. Politics are crap, largely because people misinterpret and extrapolate what others say, and then hold them to those misinterpretations/extrapolations, kiddo. Vote for me - I like to make sure we're all clear on exactly what people do and don't say.

Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.22 04:55:00 - [121] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 22/03/2011 04:56:22 Originally by: Imigo Montoya The game mechanics don't promote XXX - human nature does that all by itself. Funfact: The above quote can be said about EVERYTHING associated with humans, when dealing with any game mechanics, honestly do you even know what 'human nature' means? Also if EVE was the only game out there, people may have believed your ****ed / generic reply, however since it isnt only the flying monkeys & sheeps will believe your bull**. . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.22 05:51:00 - [122] Originally by: Kalle Demos Funfact: The above quote can be said about EVERYTHING associated with humans, when dealing with any game mechanics, honestly do you even know what 'human nature' means? Also if EVE was the only game out there, people may have believed your ****ed / generic reply, however since it isnt only the flying monkeys & sheeps will believe your bull**. Funfact: The plural of sheep is sheep. Seriously though, human nature (ie, what it means to be human, how humans naturally think/act) guides game design considerably, but ultimately whatever mechanics are put in place will take second place to guide what players do than what they are inherently conditioned to do anyway. One really cool aspect of EVE is the sandbox - giving people a persistent world to go explore and play around with, but ultimately they're not playing with the game, they're playing with each other. The mechanisms in place support this at every turn. This is a social game where the content is provided by the players. If you don't like that there are plenty of "theme park" MMOs which guide players actions a lot more (and therefore aren't as susceptible to the effects of human nature), but they are artificial and arbitrary. Currently, EVE is neither of those things. Adding game mechanisms to limit how players interact with each other (eg blobbing) will fundamentally change what EVE is, throwing the baby out with the bath water as it were. I thought the previously posted summary would be enough to convey the gist of this message, but apparently not. What might be nice is if you actually addressed the issues rather resorting to petty personal attacks. Is that too much to ask?
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.22 06:04:00 - [123] Originally by: Imigo Montoya Originally by: Kalle Demos Funfact: The above quote can be said about EVERYTHING associated with humans, when dealing with any game mechanics, honestly do you even know what 'human nature' means? Also if EVE was the only game out there, people may have believed your ****ed / generic reply, however since it isnt only the flying monkeys & sheeps will believe your bull**. meh CCP dont change lowsec, because of human nature CCP dont change FW, because of human nature CCP dont change anything in EVE, because of human nature CCP since everyone wants to survive just prevent ships from dying by making it impossible to kill ships / pods. What I mean is, changes arent needed because of human nature, so therefore dont change because of human needs, make sense? No thought not :P Imigo, guess what theres a difference between real life and make believe and theres a HUGE difference between need and want, know the difference and maybe you will understand why the game mechanics are at fault . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.22 06:45:00 - [124] How lowsec works is a game mechanic and can be modified by CCP How FW works is a game mechanic and can be modified by CCP How Sov works is a game mechanic and can be modified by CCP How Moon Mining works is a game mechanic and can be modified by CCP Blobbing and number warfare (what your original complaint that I referenced was about) is not a game mechanic or an effect of game mechanics, it is an effect of human nature. Try not to put words into other people's mouths just so you can argue a different point that they never made in the first place. Originally by: Kalle Demos the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare that makes it impossible todo anything WITHOUT huge numbers THIS is the problem.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:09:00 - [125] Once again you have said 'human nature' and fail to see how saying that can be said about ANYTHING a person does, you may as well have said "players in eve do stuff because of human nature". Originally by: Imigo Montoya Blobbing and number warfare (what your original complaint that I referenced was about) is not a game mechanic or an effect of game mechanics, it is an effect of human nature. Then do explain oh wise one why blobbing aka number warfare in huge 2k+ numbers doesnt happen in hisec, why WHs arent blobbed with extreme numbers and why you will only hear about huge mega numbers in 0.0 You can try and word it to benefit your cause, but it makes no difference, but dont think for a second anyone is going to fall for your "number warfare happens because we are all human and need to survive and it has nothing todo with the mechanics of 0.0" and expect people to believe it. In a game where risk / reward are balanced with every action, explain how 0.0 mega NAPs can blue everything within 60 jumps, get numbers past 2000 (just with half of their coalition) and not have any penalties for having 55k people NAPed, you guys complain about hi-sec mission runners all the time but the fact of the matter is, you are no different to them. In an internet spaceship game, human needs arent always taken into consideration, otherwise you would have had to FEED your NAP train, now thats human nature too. Are you saying to CCP that you want to age, have hunger, get ill in game? I mean if we have to include everything in human nature we would have to include those, which is fine since im all for a NC famine. Fact of the matter is, it is the mechanics that ALLOW huge mega to form and why 0.0 is only affected by gigantic mega NAPs. What needs to change in the mechanics is timers and sov warfare (claiming a system), atm timers allow coalitions alot of time to form and blob in numbers only another coalition can match, Sov warfare focuses on one system where battles end in blob vs blob vs structure. If sov warfare and timers were changed to make it faster in claiming a system and involved alot of movement (no jump bridging to a random system via a titan then sitting there for 10 hours isnt considered movement). There will be people who say "well the NAP wouldnt break it will just have alot of mini fleets everywhere", while this is true EVERYONE else can manage mini fleets, only NC and DRF can manage 2000+ in numbers. NAPs would be NAPs and NOT "hey we should blue because meatshields are best friends, yo", I mean the whole idea of a NAP is non-aggression but all we see are NAPs being renters and pets, there as cannon fodder. Oh and one last thing, CCP and the previous CSM including Vuk Lau all stated in the last CSM minutes that the mechanics in 0.0 were in short **, the warfare was limited to shooting structures so I cant really see why you are trying to convince people number warfare naturally happens and CCP cant do anything about it, especially when it is an obvious problem. TLDR-- Blobbing happens and someone will always get blobbed, number warfare (numbers > numbers > numbers) happens because of **ty mechanics that limits movement, reduces warfare to structure and forces new alliances to pick a side rather than be independent. Timers allow MEGA HUGE numbers to form, they also make the enemy focus on one system, THEY ALSO prevent dead alliances (which have been dead for weeks) from dying, are you really telling people that the mechanics arenÆt at fault here. . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.22 08:57:00 - [126] Originally by: Kalle Demos :words: I'm going to attempt to write this whole post without using the b word because its used pretty consistantly to mean 'any fleet bigger than what I can form'. But first I'm going to crosspost this from another thread because it seems pretty applicable here. Originally by: Yeep What size of engagement do you think should be the maximum before bringing more people is not effective? Is it coincidentally the size of fleet you personally are able to field or should we extend that all the way down to 1 person. That way each alliance could put forward one level 85 spaceship pilot champion to fight in honourable combat in an instanced arena to decide who gets to keep space. Bringing more people needs to work because otherwise you end up in a game where only people in T3 ships with massive entitlement complexes are allowed to PvP. Wormholes and highsec aren't fought over by large fleets because anyone with the organisation to form one is out in 0.0. Wormholes also don't stay connected to the same place long enough and aren't able to support more than a couple of people at once. Originally by: Kalle Demos In an internet spaceship game, human needs arent always taken into consideration, otherwise you would have had to FEED your NAP train, now thats human nature too. Are you saying to CCP that you want to age, have hunger, get ill in game? I mean if we have to include everything in human nature we would have to include those, which is fine since im all for a NC famine. Human nature != biological needs There are very few people who think the current sov mechanics aren't broken, but giant coalitions existed before Dominion and will continue to exist long after its fixed. You are exactly the kind of person I was concerned about being a CSM candidate in Trebor's thread. You're mad because your 7 man corp can't claim space that a 5000 man alliance wants so you're willing to accept solutions which massively compromise the vision of EvE because they also further your 'waaa people have more friends than me its not fair' agenda.
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.22 09:36:00 - [127] You really must stop putting words in other people's mouths and arguing with points that haven't been made. I've never complained about high-sec mission runners, I've never said the mechanics of 0.0 are perfect, and I've never suggested that human needs should be modelled in the game. You seem to be asserting that I have, and providing counter points to that. I also haven't said that CCP can't do anything about blobbing/number warfare, I said that EVE is a game where content is provided by the players, and preventing that (ie arbitrarily preventing players from forming groups) would make it more of a "Theme Park" MMO, which it currently isn't and shouldn't be. What you have said, is that "the current mechanics promote blobbing and number warfare". What I have said is that it's not the game mechanics that promote blobbing and number warfare, it's human nature. You can change the mechanics all you want, but people will always find a way to get safety in numbers (due to human nature) if that's what they want (which it seems they do). Don't go confusing human nature with human need, they are quite different things. Why doesn't it happen in high sec you ask? One possible explanation is that people in highsec don't need to defend their access to their territory (it's not really theirs as such), the game does that for them. Why doesn't blobbing/numbers warfare happen in Wormholes? Well that would be assuming that it doesn't, but to humour you if you look at the QEN, you'll see that less people live in wormholes than anywhere else. Also, moving around wormholes is inherently a lot more arduous (no gates). These points could go some way to explaining the perception that WHs don't get blobbed so much. Although try asking the targets of AHARM whether or not they got blobbed... So again, please try to argue the points I have made.
Gabriel Michelson	Posted - 2011.03.22 10:07:00 - [128] Edited by: Gabriel Michelson on 22/03/2011 10:08:23 Originally by: Kalle Demos :Stuff about blobs being evil: That's your gripe? You don't like that folks that have large numbers of allies can bring their full force to bear? Welcome to MMO's Welcome to the real world. As much as blobs #### me off when I'm solo roaming? Meh. Fleets happen.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.03.22 11:44:00 - [129] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 22/03/2011 11:47:11 Imigo I replied to exactly what you said, I even quoted you on what I was replying to, I cant see how im putting words in your mouth when my reply WAS about mechanics and human nature. As for the people saying blob, if you bothered to read what I said (which obviously you never) I already mentioned that blobs will happen and will continue to, its number warfare where strategy is dependant on numbers > numbers > numbers and I guess "who can get into the system the first and not lag out and die". Blobbing and number warfare are two different things :P Once you figured out the difference between the two let me know, after all blobbing is being outnumbered and number warfare is exploiting mechanics so that you are always ahead in numbers and your strategy is as simple as that, 0.0 favours this because of timers & structure bashing. I made it perfectly clear what my point was :P . Im not Bismaru, im better!
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:52:00 - [130] Originally by: Kalle Demos Once you figured out the difference between the two let me know, after all blobbing is being outnumbered and number warfare is exploiting mechanics so that you are always ahead in numbers and your strategy is as simple as that, 0.0 favours this because of timers & structure bashing. Timers exist to prevent smaller entities without 23 hour coverage having their space taken while they're asleep. Going on a crusade against large alliances then bringing up timers really highlights how much you don't know what you're talking about. Originally by: Kalle Demos I made it perfectly clear what my point was :P You really didn't. Your post descended into almost unreadable white noise before the end.

Gabriel Michelson	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:18:00 - [131] Originally by: Kalle Demos As for the people saying blob, if you bothered to read what I said (which obviously you never) I already mentioned that blobs will happen and will continue to, its number warfare where strategy is dependant on numbers > numbers > numbers and I guess "who can get into the system the first and not lag out and die". Blobbing and number warfare are two different things :P Once you figured out the difference between the two let me know, after all blobbing is being outnumbered and number warfare is exploiting mechanics so that you are always ahead in numbers and your strategy is as simple as that, 0.0 favours this because of timers & structure bashing. I made it perfectly clear what my point was :P :LOL: Originally by: Kalle Demos Then do explain oh wise one why blobbing aka number warfare in huge 2k+ numbers doesnt happen in hisec, why WHs arent blobbed with extreme numbers and why you will only hear about huge mega numbers in 0.0 You do know what AKA means, don't you?
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:34:00 - [132] Originally by: Kalle Demos number warfare is exploiting mechanics Not really. Having more friends than you do is not "exploiting" anything. If you must have issues with 0.0 people, take issue with the vocal portion of them that are arrogant self-entitled ****heads who think that 0.0 blob warfare is the only way to play the game and anyone who just wants to make a quiet living missioning in Empire or mining or whatever the hell is a "idiot pubbie".
Imigo Montoya Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.03.22 18:41:00 - [133] Edited by: Imigo Montoya on 22/03/2011 18:41:20 Originally by: Jovan Geldon Originally by: Kalle Demos number warfare is exploiting mechanics Not really. Having more friends than you do is not "exploiting" anything. If you must have issues with 0.0 people, take issue with the vocal portion of them that are arrogant self-entitled ****heads who think that 0.0 blob warfare is the only way to play the game and anyone who just wants to make a quiet living missioning in Empire or mining or whatever the hell is a "idiot pubbie". Interesting observation by Raph Koster (Ultima Online/Star Wars Galaxies) that 40% of players don't like PvP. This is an estimated and general (ie not specific to any game) value. EVE still has it's appeal to these player types, which in a primarily PvP game is quite an impressive design feat.


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