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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.31 06:52:00 -
[1]
I only spent 5 minutes reading and skipped large sections out as I have to head to work. From the quick key word search I did, I didn't spot any dates . For example in http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1261656/page/3#72 I summarised the time lines for each Jove empire.
Some areas don't make sense. The Talocan and 1st Jove Empire are too far apart. How can they possible be the same empire? In known space at the time the 1st Jove empire was as far as possible to be away from the Talocan. If the Talocan existed alongside the Yan Jung then it has to be 3 distinct empires.
I don't understand where the Talocan Yan Jung conflict idea is coming from? I dated the Yan Jung a while back and have seen no evidence the Talocan existed anywhere in that timeframe.
Could the Talocan really conquer a race that had larger then Dreadnought ships and arace that had better power and technology? We have seen nothing to hint at the Talocan tech level being anywhere near as powerful as the Yan Jung or anything to say the Talocan date back that far.
Your Terren section needs dates. The unexplained phenonemen that engulfed the gates and caused all the damage to the eden systems happen a long time after the Eve wormhole shut. Reading the section people could mistake the two events happing in the sameyear.
Keep up the good work.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.31 15:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Pottsey on 31/03/2011 15:39:02
Edited by: Pottsey on 31/03/2011 15:37:40
The way I see it is we have the timelines for the Yan Jung and Jove. We know both came though the Eve gate and settled in the respective homeworld systems. We know the location for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Jove empires. "The ancestors of the Jovians settled in Utopia while the EVE gate was still open. The Heaven constellation was the home of the First and Second Jovian Empires, both larger and grander than their current Third Empire." http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul01
As far as I am aware there are zero timeframes for the Talocan. Let's assume and for me it's a big assumption the Talocan are the Jove. Then we are in a situation where if we draw a line between the position of the 3 empires we have the Jove very far South, Yan Jung upper middle of the line and Talocan North. What are the chances the Jove have an empire both to the South and north of the Yan Jung Empire with such a massive gap between the empires? To me it seems the Talocan are in completely the wrong position to be a part of any Jove Empire. If we look at the position of the 1 and 2nd Jove Empires then look at where the 3rd empire moved to we find the Talocan are nowhere near any logical migration pattern.
You say the Talocan are strongly hinted to be a part of the 1st Jove Empire, but what hints? I am not aware of any strong links or even weak links really. There are some links between the Jove and Sleepers on the other hand.
I guess what I am trying to say is, I don't see any links between the Talocan, Jove or Yan Jung. What technology we have seen from the Yan Jung is vastly more advance then the Talocan. So even if Talocan in the right timeframe I don't see how they could have been a threat.
My best guess is both the Jove and Yan Jung are colonies that survived the gates shutting. The Talocan are a race them came much later after re-developing.
http://www.eveonline.com/races/jove.asp says "Within the space of only a few centuries they had recovered, and were once again running a hi-tech society." I took that to mean the 1st Jove empire was created and running 200 and 500 years after the disaster of the new Eden gates. The empire lasted 9000 years from the same link. Putting us around 17261 to 17562 for when the 1st empire collapsed and around the year 8261 to 8562 depending on precisely what a few centuries mean for when the 1st empire was created.
http://www.eveonline.com/bitmaps/img/jove1.jpg is a picture of the Jove leader who united the Jove in the 2nd empire more than 3000 years ago. Sorry I don't remember what other source I used but I came to the conclusion and took the meaning more than 3000 years as not greatly more then. People tend to round so more than 3000 most likely means between 3000 to 3999 years ago. If it was 4000 years I would have expected someone to write more than 4000 years. With The Society of Conscious being funded 3000 years ago I figured this was around the same time as the new empire. Assuming I am completely around about the 3000 year number the max timeframe for the 2nd empire could be created is a little over 5000 years ago or it would have existed at the same time as the 1st empire. That should be enough data to draw a rough timeline of when each Jove Empire was created and collapsed.
Source http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1261656/page/3#72 says the 3rd Jove empire was created 500 years ago. Which would have been around 22736
Can I suggest instead of taking out bits that some of us don't agree with you put both points in. One problem you will have is a lot of data is subjective. Perhaps in sections were there is debate you can put something like Kaito Haakkainen and my follow researches think this point. A few other researches like Pottsey or whoever don't agree and think this point instead.
Just trying to dig though my Yan Jung notes and timelines.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.31 16:33:00 -
[3]
"Their ships also surpass the ability of known empire ships and the Eidolon battleship has been shown to be able to withstand massive amounts of firepower"
Personally I think this is Jove propaganda. If you look closely every single Jove encounter recorded has had the Jove perform shockingly bad. The Jove realise how bad there situation is and are trying to project power they no longer have. For example look closely at point [25] to prove Jove ships are superior.
We have a fleet made up of new pod pilots with very low skilled points and using primitive at best T1 weapons and T1 modules. This fleet engaged a Jove fleet with minor loss and complete loss of the Jove ships. This looks even worse if it turns out the Jove fleet was made up of old experience pilots with high skill points and good weapons.
There have been plenty of examples in recent years of small numbers of skilled pod pilot using advanced technology and tactics engage and winning again worse odds. If we took some experienced pod pilots with high skill points T2 or better equipment I would expect them to win against those odds or at the very least last a while. Take any standard wormhole expedition and I bet a small fleet of those pilots would not only withstand as long as those Jove battleships but most likely even win against the same odds.
Another example of so called Jove superior ships is the Amarr war. Yet if you look closely it was a disaster for the Jove. If any pod pilot fleet won in the same way as the Jove the fleet would be a laughing stock for its terrible performance.
Let's list the Jove advantages.
ò The Jove had capital ships with cap weapons and doomsday weapons while the enemy had Battleships as the max size.
ò The Jove had the full enemy battle plans and tactics before the battle. This gave the Jove the element of surprise and time to fit the perfect counter. Not to mention made it so the Jove had a fleet in waiting ready to engage as they know which systems the Amarr would land in.
ò The enemy Fleet Command ship (Which was a battleship) and fleet leader was a traitor working for the Jove. (This is a big one for me the Fleet leader giving orders worked for the Jove!)
ò The Jove had pod piloted ships with all the advantages that gives, the enemy had none pod piloted ships and all the disadvantages that gives.
ò The Jove had so called advanced weapons the enemy had T1 if not much worse then T1 weapons.
It should have been a clear easy win and short battle. Not massively long battle with the Jove losing one-third of the fleet. Surly I am not mistaken in saying any pod pilot fleet today with those advantages above would be a laughing stock for losing 1/3 of their fleet even if they still won?
I would also like to point out with backwards engineering wormhole technology giving T3 and constant advances due to war has shot up our technology massively in recent years. As far as we can tell the Jove have not made such advancements. The best known specs for Jove cruisers and battleships are now worse than our best known tech for our cruisers and battleships. Our T3 cruisers are far superior to the best known Jove cruisers. One could argue out T2 cruisers are better as well. Our T1 battleships are a match fro Jove battleship any day of the week.
I do not buy into the propaganda. Not with the above info and having been in fights with many Jove 1 on 1 and winning Jove. The only reason people think Jove are superior is due the Jove propaganda and PR.
It might be rumoured that Jove have weapons that destroy a whole planet. Wasn't there some news a while back that say a Titan doomsday had destroy a whole planet? Only whole planet meant all life and infrastructure.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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