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LordElfa
Gallente
Tri Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.27 17:44:00 -
[1]
Good. I posted this elsewhere and I'll post it here as well.
Look, the fact is that while the Goons and NC may be ruthless bastards, they actually do care about and have time and money invested in EVE. They want this game to be polished and fixed because that benefits them and in turn, it benefits us.
Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase for their ability to get things done and be unified while doing it. These people may be some of the most evil players in EVE, but in real life many of them are responsible and highly intelligent individuals. They play the game like *******s because thats is the game. However, what they do in the CSM is not the game, its the technical workings of the game and I think that they'll bring to the table, not the ******* characters they play, but the truly intelligent and responsible people they are in real life since that is what they'll need if they wish to get things accomplished.
You want to call me names because I support them, fine, we shall see. Don't judge a real life book by its in game cover you bunch of whiners.
Give them a chance to do what the other CSM's couldn't, which is do more than blow hot air.
...and if they do screw us all, well, that will be fun too so suck it up, this isn't WoW after all.
⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
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Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:12:00 -
[2]
Agreed. Just because a lot of them are in the NC (killer2 as a full member and krutoj as an alternate in the DRF even) doesn't mean they're going to try and tailor the game towards them, as many sensationalists think that they will do. With a combined front also shared by Seleene, Meissa and Trebor, I think this CSM will be the most productive one ever.
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Berrik Radhok
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.27 20:54:00 -
[3]
Who's controlling your game now, Molle?
 Quote:
[ 2006.08.25 22:30:46 ] fire 59 > mate, im 230 and 6 ft 3, half caste and train every day
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Mel Lifera
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:10:00 -
[4]
I say we wait until they've achieved something to begin lauding their achievements. After 5 CSM's, the only rational thing to expect is not much.
The biggest question on my mind is, should that again happen, will they blame their inability to work together and accomplish anything on evil CCP being evil, like certain members of all those other CSMs have done; or will they concede incompetence and unwillingness to compromise?
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:44:00 -
[5]
I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised.
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Blake Zacary
Volatile Nature
Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:20:00 -
[6]
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills,tactics and thinking out the box can come into play.Not boring massive blobs in the one single focal point with just point,click (llllaaaaagggg) shoot primary ! I want to be proven wrong but just now I just can't see you all leaving the in-game politics at the door and going into CSM as Eve customers like us who want to improve the game play for everyone.I fully suspect you'll all be having 'coalition meetings' outside of normal CSM ones to work out the changes that will affect your coalition not the player base as a whole,since you'll have prior advance notice ahead of the rest of us.Will you really push for things that balance the game but are bad for your coalition ? But like I said I do want to be wrong and if you do a great job I'll be the first to vote for you next time.......well not you as west Brits should be banned from any and all politics tbh 
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills
I am sorry that you hate friendships, having experienced many friendships in my life, I thoroughly recommend you have a jolly good go at it!
But an act of intervention to create social barriers that don't exist or have been broken down would contradict much of the sort of ideology that is set down in CCP's white papers. However, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be real and genuine conflict drivers.
I have personal suggestions I've yet to write down (but I assure you they're in my head) and I need to sit down and flesh it out with other CSM's and get feedback, so that we can operate and influence structures and ideas within our field of control/influence.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills,tactics and thinking out the box can come into play.Not boring massive blobs in the one single focal point with just point,click (llllaaaaagggg) shoot primary ! I want to be proven wrong but just now I just can't see you all leaving the in-game politics at the door and going into CSM as Eve customers like us who want to improve the game play for everyone.I fully suspect you'll all be having 'coalition meetings' outside of normal CSM ones to work out the changes that will affect your coalition not the player base as a whole,since you'll have prior advance notice ahead of the rest of us.Will you really push for things that balance the game but are bad for your coalition ? But like I said I do want to be wrong and if you do a great job I'll be the first to vote for you next time.......well not you as west Brits should be banned from any and all politics tbh
You think we like the massive laggy blobs?
The only reason they are used is because they are the best tool for the job. The job being smashing a multimillion EHP brick wall (TCU/iHUB/Station) before the enemies bash down your EHP brick wall (SBU) or vice versa.
If there were small gang objectives that couldn't be done any faster with a large blob, they blobs wouldn't need to exist.
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Grim Savage
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Grim Savage on 27/03/2011 22:37:05
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills,tactics and thinking out the box can come into play.Not boring massive blobs in the one single focal point with just point,click (llllaaaaagggg) shoot primary ! I want to be proven wrong but just now I just can't see you all leaving the in-game politics at the door and going into CSM as Eve customers like us who want to improve the game play for everyone.I fully suspect you'll all be having 'coalition meetings' outside of normal CSM ones to work out the changes that will affect your coalition not the player base as a whole,since you'll have prior advance notice ahead of the rest of us.Will you really push for things that balance the game but are bad for your coalition ? But like I said I do want to be wrong and if you do a great job I'll be the first to vote for you next time.......well not you as west Brits should be banned from any and all politics tbh
Under current game mechanics there is NOTHING your alliance can do in Period Basis to stand against an attack by any serious block.
Alliances like yours are the one that have the most to gain by having 'Serious business Internet space-ship pilots' at the CSM table.
How do you think that Vera Cruz Alliance would do in Period Basis with no beacons, no jump bridges and no local channel? That is just some of the stuff that 'stupid people' have suggest for fixing 0.0 space.
Ohh, and skills get you NOWHERE in eve online. You have 2 things that work. Supercaps / Carriers / HIC's & DIC's OR, loads of logistic ships and enough firepower to kill 1 primary every 30 or so seconds. Those are the ONLY 2 versions that work.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
If there were small gang objectives that couldn't be done any faster with a large blob, they blobs wouldn't need to exist.
Strictly speaking, this is not exaaaaactly true.
Improving sov objectives would reduce the need for massive fleets, but there will still be points of conflict that call for them. If, for instance, you are Badguy Alliance A and I am White Hat Alliance B, and I decide to reinforce six of your CSAA POS's, when it comes time to knock them down I'm probably going to throw the kitchen sink at you and you're probably going to bring everything you have to defend.
The core problem is simply an issue of both mathematics and human nature.
People like winning. They don't like losing. 10 DPS is more than 2 DPS. A defender who ship has 100 DPS will die more quickly to 10 DPS than to 2 DPS. That will, in turn, take DPS off the fleet that's attacking him.
We'll always see fleets large enough to grant an advance.
Quantity, after all, has a quality all its own.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
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Blake Zacary
Volatile Nature
Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills
I am sorry that you hate friendships, having experienced many friendships in my life, I thoroughly recommend you have a jolly good go at it!
But an act of intervention to create social barriers that don't exist or have been broken down would contradict much of the sort of ideology that is set down in CCP's white papers. However, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be real and genuine conflict drivers.
I have personal suggestions I've yet to write down (but I assure you they're in my head) and I need to sit down and flesh it out with other CSM's and get feedback, so that we can operate and influence structures and ideas within our field of control/influence.
This is the kinda reponce I suspected and it just confirms my current thoughts on the CSM.Nowhere in my post did I say I was against coalitions (friends as you call them) in fact I think we need coalitions to a certain degree,to have the end game situation of two big groups of people fighting eachother.What I don't like is the way the game drags people into one focal point.I would love to see battle lines getting drawn up where there could be some sort of 'war front' where you could have multipul objectives with multipul battles all alone the war front.Where things like guerrilla warfare behind enemy lines can come into play,big battles that are really decoys for one side or the other to do another objective etc,etc
And if you really do think we should just go about wearing flowers in our hair and making loads of love buddies in 0.0 and not fight like Mittani seems to want,are you lot really the best people for the CSM ?
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.03.27 23:00:00 -
[12]
I wholeheartedly agree with you. There should be dramatic conflict drivers which may bring the desire to invade up to the same level as the desire to befriend. But as for a means to accomplish that goal right this second, I'm keeping my cards close to my chest with my suggestions.
(because I haven't discussed them with my fellow csms!)
(actual reason: I am very insecure)
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.03.28 01:47:00 -
[13]
I'm just glad that this CSM doesn't appear to have any interpersonal issues.
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Alice Desharpe
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
I'm just glad that this CSM doesn't appear to have any interpersonal issues.
Yet.
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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:37:00 -
[15]
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
I will agree that the CSM is power bloc heavy, but is not NC controlled, but yes NC/Goon/Test is 5/9 of the seats.
Additionally i think the OP is right in the gist of the message. you may not like our in game position, but those of us who are here, are not hear to screw everyone else.. we are here to make the game we love better for all..
I do hope we get the chance to do so properly together as 1 team.
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Pirokobo
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 28/03/2011 02:50:07
Originally by: Draco Llasa
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
I will agree that the CSM is power bloc heavy, but is not NC controlled, but yes NC/Goon/Test is 5/9 of the seats.
Death does get along better with Mittens then with the NC as a whole.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.03.28 06:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 28/03/2011 06:27:23
NC's idea of "better for everyone" is maintaining the status quo and eventually changing the server name from Tranquility to Trammel.
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Siecen K'Solaran
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 28/03/2011 06:27:23
NC's idea of "better for everyone" is maintaining the status quo and eventually changing the server name from Tranquility to Trammel.
[Citation needed]
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:15:00 -
[19]
Look, we've been given got paranoia, smears and fallacies.
On top of you want cites, too?
Have you no shame?!?
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.03.28 10:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
I will agree that the CSM is power bloc heavy, but is not NC controlled, but yes NC/Goon/Test is 5/9 of the seats.
What a load of bull****. Goons and TEST fall right under the NC dictated standings and have been for a while now. So please stop trying to spin it like they are not part of the NC.
5 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
That is the list.
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.03.28 10:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marconus Orion
Originally by: Draco Llasa
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
I will agree that the CSM is power bloc heavy, but is not NC controlled, but yes NC/Goon/Test is 5/9 of the seats.
What a load of bull****. Goons and TEST fall right under the NC dictated standings and have been for a while now. So please stop trying to spin it like they are not part of the NC.
5 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
That is the list.
Culturally, the Clusterf*ck Coalition and The NC are very different. Resources and manpower are also managed differently.
_______________________________________
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Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Universal Army
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Posted - 2011.03.28 10:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
What we really have is:
5 - cheeseburger inhaling yanks
1 - milk bagger
1 - dropbear farmer
1 - chocolatier
1 - upstanding individual from a glorious country
I worry.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.03.28 12:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: LordElfa
Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase
You can't expect peoples respect when you have any for others and the only opinion that counts it's yours, this is a fact.
Maybe start by avoiding pubbie and gay pride comments in a game forum it should be a good start.
And this is for all the starting block goonies waiting posts like mine to add "not english native", I answer "thank god I'm not"
________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99
In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Pirokobo
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Marconus Orion
Originally by: Draco Llasa
I would like to point out that really what you have is:
3 - Goons/Test (NC BFFs)
2 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
I will agree that the CSM is power bloc heavy, but is not NC controlled, but yes NC/Goon/Test is 5/9 of the seats.
What a load of bull****. Goons and TEST fall right under the NC dictated standings and have been for a while now. So please stop trying to spin it like they are not part of the NC.
5 - NC
1 - DRF
3 - Non powerbloc
That is the list.
Culturally, the Clusterf*ck Coalition and The NC are very different. Resources and manpower are also managed differently.
The NC basically consists of a dozen alliances that constantly snipe moons from each other at every opportunity. They are not 'friends' in the sense that GSF and TEST are.
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Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:00:00 -
[25]
I was unaware goons and test had reset the rest of the NC. Apologies then.
When did you reset your standings with them? How does it feel to be independent and able to stand on your own for once without the other alliances in NC to prop you up?
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Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:06:00 -
[26]
It surprises me more that people still think that the CSM will have some kind of major influence on CCP's goals, or currently lack of.
The only thing that I want this CSM to do, is place spycams around the ccp headquarters so that we can see that CCP is usually just busy sticking their fingers up their asses pretending to know what actually goes on in this game and I would like to get a backdoor into their logging system, because I would really love to see those non-showing logs!
Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of facts. |
FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
I would really love to see those non-showing logs!
Don't say I've never done nuthin' for ya.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Swynet
And this is for all the starting block goonies waiting posts like mine to add "not english native", I answer "thank god I'm not"
Hey Finn, we can add "racist" to your list now!
Originally by: Marconius Onion
I was unaware goons and test had reset the rest of the NC. Apologies then.
When did you reset your standings with them? How does it feel to be independent and able to stand on your own for once without the other alliances in NC to prop you up?
Wow. He MAD.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 28/03/2011 16:00:37
Fat-cats, whose sole interest is in maintaining the flawed status quo, can "blob" the few common sense votes on the council.
It will be the first CSM cycle where the council has absolutely no impact on the game (CSM1 doesn't count because it was a media stunt ).
One can only hope it is too little too late and that CCP already has an outline for Sov Mk.III in place, plus the balls to flip the fingers-in-ear CSM the bird.
Originally by: Feligast
Hey Finn, we can add "racist" to your list now!
Being glad for not being a native English speaker is not racist, it is very rational indeed.
Western world has eaten itself to death and is drowning in its own refuse and corruption.
Long live the East!
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LordElfa
Gallente
Tri Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: LordElfa
Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase
You can't expect peoples respect when you have any for others and the only opinion that counts it's yours, this is a fact.
Maybe start by avoiding pubbie and gay pride comments in a game forum it should be a good start.
And this is for all the starting block goonies waiting posts like mine to add "not english native", I answer "thank god I'm not"
It sounds like to me that you have issues separating real life from fantasy. The characters that the goons and NC play in EVE are not who they are in real life and its the real life people who are going to be manning this CSM. They have a large stake in both repairing and maintaining integrity in EVE.
Get your heads out of your asses people and wake up/grow up. For once we have a CSM comprised of members who really play this game for all its worth and very much want to see this game succeed.
Let them try and give them some damn encouragement. I for one will laugh out ****ing loud when its the NC that finally succeeds where all others have failed and I'll be laughing at the nay sayers.
⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
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Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.28 18:30:00 -
[31]
Thank god you all didn't vote that guy with aspergers onto the CSM. That is the last thing we need.
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EOH Minigin
Eve Online Hold'Em
ISK Six
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Posted - 2011.03.28 19:45:00 -
[32]
Edited by: EOH Minigin on 28/03/2011 19:46:24
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills
I am sorry that you hate friendships, having experienced many friendships in my life, I thoroughly recommend you have a jolly good go at it!
being blue and being friends are far from the same thing.
your alliance claims they trolled own out of the nc? or something??? i dont even know. when i was in the nc the constant excuse given to us for being blue to goons was "we hate goons but we hate bob more".
now days most people dont "know" most of their "friends" and most likely never will.
so tell us again, why would you be blue to everyone around you? and if you can do that, why would you be blue to everyone around you in free pvp area of eve?
i have a feeling this isnt about singing songs by a campfire.
although: i do look forward to your suggestions for conflict drivers and how to manage the lagfests occuring through sheer numbers atm.
WANNA PLAY POKER IN EVE FOR ISK????
www.eohpoker.com |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.28 20:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Being glad for not being a native English speaker is not racist, it is very rational indeed.
Western world has eaten itself to death and is drowning in its own refuse and corruption.
hahaha you are literally a 14 year old who has just discovered Rage Against The Machine and The Communist Manifesto.
Keep on fighting the good fight against your parents for not letting you grow your hair long or paint your room black I guess.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.03.28 20:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 28/03/2011 20:54:21
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
..
Forty plus.
Both parent deceased decades ago.
Pet Shop Boys, PJ Harvey and Nick Cave/Grinderman.
You almost got it right though 
PS: Might want to tone down the personal attack paradigm, going to get yourself banned at the rate you are going.
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Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.28 20:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: EOH Minigin
Edited by: EOH Minigin on 28/03/2011 19:46:24
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills
I am sorry that you hate friendships, having experienced many friendships in my life, I thoroughly recommend you have a jolly good go at it!
being blue and being friends are far from the same thing.
your alliance claims they trolled own out of the nc? or something??? i dont even know. when i was in the nc the constant excuse given to us for being blue to goons was "we hate goons but we hate bob more".
now days most people dont "know" most of their "friends" and most likely never will.
so tell us again, why would you be blue to everyone around you? and if you can do that, why would you be blue to everyone around you in free pvp area of eve?
i have a feeling this isnt about singing songs by a campfire.
although: i do look forward to your suggestions for conflict drivers and how to manage the lagfests occuring through sheer numbers atm.
Can you please start posting song lyrics again, those were more interesting than these posts of yours 
Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of facts. |
Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.03.28 21:31:00 -
[36]
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Signature removed. |
Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.03.28 22:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Additionally i think the OP is right in the gist of the message. you may not like our in game position, but those of us who are here, are not hear to screw everyone else.. we are here to make the game we love better for all..
Most of us expect epic failure. You've got one year to valiantly prove us wrong; do not waste it.
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Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.03.28 23:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Generally, people try not to be so brazen about their utter lack of understanding.
But I guess we all have to have something to be proud of.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.03.29 00:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Generally, people try not to be so brazen about their utter lack of understanding.
But I guess we all have to have something to be proud of.
Heh. Do be sure to enjoy watching your representatives howling impotently about the anomaly changes and the forthcoming rebalancing of JBs and nullsec logistics in general.
Signature removed. |
Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.03.29 01:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Heh. Do be sure to enjoy watching your representatives howling impotently about the anomaly changes and the forthcoming rebalancing of JBs and nullsec logistics in general.
I live in fountain and don't fly a capital. None of that really affects me. vOv
But you can always tell that changes are both balanced and healthy when people use them as a weapon against other people.
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Courthouse
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.29 05:11:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Generally, people try not to be so brazen about their utter lack of understanding.
But I guess we all have to have something to be proud of.
Heh. Do be sure to enjoy watching your representatives howling impotently about the anomaly changes and the forthcoming rebalancing of JBs and nullsec logistics in general.
Regarding anomaly changes, I recommend checking dotlan on the truesec of Deklein.
Regarding JBs and nullsec logistics I recommend checking the Titan tracker in CAOD and Northern JB map that's widely disseminated.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.03.29 06:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
But you can always tell that changes are both balanced and healthy when people use them as a weapon against other people.
People whined (and got taunted about) the nano nerf. As such, it was clearly unhealthy and unwarranted, and should be reverted post-haste!
Originally by: Courthouse
Regarding anomaly changes, I recommend checking dotlan on the truesec of Deklein.
Regarding JBs and nullsec logistics I recommend checking the Titan tracker in CAOD and Northern JB map that's widely disseminated.
So you are upholding the anomaly change as an example of the new CSM's power, influence, and effectiveness? As for the rest... you may want to look up the meaning of the word 'forthcoming'.
Signature removed. |
Sleevedace
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Posted - 2011.03.30 20:51:00 -
[43]
Uaxdeath is a really good friend of mittens.
So it's more like 6-3
Please resize your signature to no more than 120 x 400 pixels - Adida |
Zelda Wei
Caldari
New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.03.30 21:47:00 -
[44]
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Rumple Fourskin
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:34:00 -
[45]
the csm is the *****ing outlet for ccp. Like they would let any csm dictate game design. They will listen to little issues of course but huge game changing things? harhar.
The csm is nothing more then high demand companies putting a jobs email in their contact area. This email of course goes right to the trash.
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.04.04 18:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rumple Fourskin
the csm is the *****ing outlet for ccp. Like they would let any csm dictate game design. They will listen to little issues of course but huge game changing things? harhar.
The csm is nothing more then high demand companies putting a jobs email in their contact area. This email of course goes right to the trash.
This is a very vicious interpretation of our activities :(
_______________________________________
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Rumple Fourskin
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Posted - 2011.04.04 22:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: White Tree
This is a very vicious interpretation of our activities :(
Sorry. I dont mean to discourage you and I do think there are issues in eve but I dont feel that ccp needs all this pageantry to figure out what those problems are. I think the csm has a psychological effect on the players base as it makes them feel "in control" and maybe thats a good thing. But I dont think people need to fear NC, Goons or any PLAYER affecting the balance of eve from a game design perspective.
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Levistus Junior
Caldari
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Levistus Junior on 05/04/2011 09:56:05
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
You think we like the massive laggy blobs?
The only reason they are used is because they are the best tool for the job. The job being smashing a multimillion EHP brick wall (TCU/iHUB/Station) before the enemies bash down your EHP brick wall (SBU) or vice versa.
If there were small gang objectives that couldn't be done any faster with a large blob, they blobs wouldn't need to exist.
This for the most part. Of course, as long as 2 ships kill an enemy faster than a single one, people will try and bring more people than the enemy in order to maximize their success chance in important fights.
However, if the sov fights were split between let's say 10 concurrent objectives instead of one single big one, you'd be much likely to see the 1000 man blob split into 10 100 man fleets, rather than pile every pilot in the same system.
The current sov system simply makes blobs mandatory to either attack or defend.
I for one I'm very much for activity based sov. I'm no game designers so I'm not saying the following would be a good idea, but what if the sov was an index based on number 'man-hours' spent in system X by uncloaked, undocked not in pos shields pilots of a certain corp/alliance/coalition? I think this system would emphasize constant presence in enemy territory, rather than assemble a huge blob for 3-4 hours every 2 days.
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Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.04.05 14:55:00 -
[49]
The title missing XIX (or DRF if you may) from the list of the powers that corrupted Eve.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.04.06 11:23:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Imigo Montoya on 06/04/2011 11:23:15
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Please explain how a group selected from such a high voter turnout election* could possibly be considered "unrepresentative"? I don't understand it myself.
*Relative to previous elections
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Edited by: Imigo Montoya on 06/04/2011 11:23:15
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Step 1 in forging an effective CSM: create a monoculture that can trivially be sidelined and dismissed by CCP as being unrepresentative of the playerbase as a whole and useless as a source of unbiased feedback.
Please explain how a group selected from such a high voter turnout election* could possibly be considered "unrepresentative"? I don't understand it myself.
*Relative to previous elections
by definition, a representative sample reflects the composition of the parent group, which was specified as "the playerbase as a whole"
increasing the sample size does not automatically make it more representative or reduce bias and can in fact make it less representative and more biased if sampling is conducted without due care
hth
Signature removed. |
The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.04.06 18:28:00 -
[52]
Whine less, vote more - next time.
We're already pretty united; the commentary about a 6/3 split or whatever is uninformed nonsense. EVE has so many obvious problems with it that there's no need to advocate controversial positions; we can find common ground that the entire CSM can rally behind.
The Mittani for CSM6
Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.06 18:36:00 -
[53]
You hush up with your 'logic' and your 'sense,' and let the angry people be paranoid.
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Sebastian Myers
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mel Lifera
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Additionally i think the OP is right in the gist of the message. you may not like our in game position, but those of us who are here, are not hear to screw everyone else.. we are here to make the game we love better for all..
Most of us expect epic failure. You've got one year to valiantly prove us wrong; do not waste it.
I disagree! Most people, I believe, do not expect failure on their part. As for the people that do may not understand completely how the CSM works. The success of the CSM relies heavily on the players to bring their opinions/ concerns up to them in the best way possible. A group bringing a well organized proposition with enough support behind it to the CSM I am confident that it will be noticed by the leaders that have been elected to speak for the people to CCP. Although, with enough negative reinforcement and lack of support for a CSM, no matter who is in charge, it will always seem to be a fail CSM. I also do not understand why so many fear that having a NC majority on the CSM is a terrible thing. Granted it is in all likelihood that issues concerning the NC will be brought up sooner or with more ferocity, but that is not just because they are on the CSM that is because a greater percentage of people voted for them and those people expect something done about their problems just like you. Also, them having a big portion of the counsel does not do much else then help bounce resolutions off of one another for their more common goals. There is no big vote... at least not an official one to my knowledge. Internal votes may occur, but none-the-less it doesn't matter if CCP doesnt agree with the outcome.
The only thing I can see people worried about the makeup of any CSM is that from time to time CCP may bounce confidential ideas off of the CSM to see how the player would feel about these changes. The idea may be good but not appeal to the individual or the entire CSM at the time. Just bad timing on CCP's part.
If I left something out or seem to be misunderstanding something please quote me and explain. Thank you! 
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Gerard Gendri
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.11 19:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Blake Zacary
Dev: "Why be blue to everyone around you?"
Mittani: "Because friendship trumps the desire to fight."
This doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for us 0.0 players who want pvp and want it to be fun where skills,tactics and thinking out the box can come into play.Not boring massive blobs in the one single focal point with just point,click (llllaaaaagggg) shoot primary ! I want to be proven wrong but just now I just can't see you all leaving the in-game politics at the door and going into CSM as Eve customers like us who want to improve the game play for everyone.I fully suspect you'll all be having 'coalition meetings' outside of normal CSM ones to work out the changes that will affect your coalition not the player base as a whole,since you'll have prior advance notice ahead of the rest of us.Will you really push for things that balance the game but are bad for your coalition ? But like I said I do want to be wrong and if you do a great job I'll be the first to vote for you next time.......well not you as west Brits should be banned from any and all politics tbh
You certainly do think outside the box.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.11 23:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: LordElfa
The characters that the goons and NC play in EVE are not who they are in real life and its the real life people who are going to be manning this CSM.
By golly, I think youÆre right. Those videos of Darius Johnson giving a presentation heÆs 20 minutes late for while drunk off his rear are obviously a smear campaign. Similarly, the video hangin with the goons is an out of context bit of libel. IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there. These people are obviously misunderstood and clearly upstanding pillars of the community. Seriously? Like anything else in life, some are and some arenÆt.
Originally by: LordElfa
They have a large stake in both repairing and maintaining integrity in EVE.
The parts of EVE they like. What about the parts they donÆt like?
Originally by: LordElfa
For once we have a CSM comprised of members who really play this game for all its worth and very much want to see this game succeed.
And those other CSMÆs were comprised ofààà..?
Originally by: LordElfa
Let them try and give them some damn encouragement. I for one will laugh out ******* loud when its the NC that finally succeeds where all others have failed and I'll be laughing at the nay sayers.
Okay, but itÆs a little hard to see how theyÆre going to do anything but succeed when you look at the first item theyÆve chosen to spot light, Time Dialation.
Time Dialation, has been in Assembly Hall for some time http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1422034 and has had a lot of support. Even mine. CCP has it in development on one of their teams. If CSM6 succeeds in pushing it through a little faster than it already is scheduled for, IÆm all for it. ItÆs just a little difficult to give them accolades for getting something done that is already being done.
What exactly do you anticipate CSM6 succeeding at that the other CSMÆs have failed at?
-Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.11 23:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: The Mittani
Whine less, vote more - next time.
We're already pretty united; the commentary about a 6/3 split or whatever is uninformed nonsense. EVE has so many obvious problems with it that there's no need to advocate controversial positions; we can find common ground that the entire CSM can rally behind.
Sounds good. HereÆs hoping. I AM impressed with the upgraded inter-communication being used by members of CSM6. About freakin time.
-Windjammer
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:56:00 -
[58]
We took our own initiatives and maintain constant communication in order so that we're all informed about what we're doing and how we address things.
_______________________________________
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Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.13 12:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Windjammer
IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.
Oh no, man on holiday consumes alcoholic drink, quick call the internet police!
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Windjammer
IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.
Oh no, man on holiday consumes alcoholic drink, quick call the internet police!
Oh no, sarcasm from a goon in which an ô8 day benderö becomes possibly one drink. ItÆs so unexpected. Whatever shall I do?
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Windjammer
IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.
Did you know that Iceland has a Phallus museum? Yeah.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Windjammer
IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.
Oh no, man on holiday consumes alcoholic drink, quick call the internet police!
Oh no, sarcasm from a goon in which an ô8 day benderö becomes possibly one drink. ItÆs so unexpected. Whatever shall I do?
Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:09:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Yeep
Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?
Windy's next Angry Internet Letter Writing Campaign will be to let TenTonHammer know that they must fire Mittens because he was drinking at an important internet spaceships political forum.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 06:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Vile rat
Did you know that Iceland has a Phallus museum? Yeah.
I did not know that. Were you able to learn anything there?
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 06:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Yeep
Congratulations on completely missing the point. What business of yours is it if anyone got drunk at Fanfest? Are you suggesting that internet spaceship players should be statesmanlike in all areas of their life both before and after their election to the CSM? What about if a CSM member cheats on their wife? Should they be impeached?
Congratulations upon entirely missing the point. The question under consideration was whether people act the same way in real life as they do in the game. I submit that at least some of them do and used examples to illustrate.
If a CSM member wants to drink themselves silly and act like a clown every day of their life, I could care less. ThereÆll be at least one person in the room that thinks theyÆre funny. If they want to, as you suggest, cheat on their wife, let them. Maybe the wife will catch them and get a nice settlement out of it as well as get rid of the loser.
How did you work any of that into the possibility of an impeachment? I know you were trying to be absurd, but you could have put more effort into it. Come on.
-Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 06:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Windy's next Angry Internet Letter Writing Campaign will be to let TenTonHammer know that they must fire Mittens because he was drinking at an important internet spaceships political forum.
Good, duck. You never disappoint and you never understand.
-Windjammer
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.14 06:38:00 -
[67]
Babelfish not working for you again, eh?
Too bad.
Gotten a response from TenTonHammer yet?
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.14 09:29:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Yeep on 14/04/2011 09:28:53
Originally by: Windjammer
IÆm sure when Mits said he went to Iceland on an 8 day bender that what he really meant was he went there to confer with others on how to best serve EVE in an informal setting and enjoy some of the sights to be seen there.
Let me quote this again as you seem to forget what you said the moment you're done spraying the contents of your digestive tract over these forums. Ignoring the fact that none of the current CSM were elected until the end of fanfest. And the fact that you probably didn't vote for him so he's not *your* representative. And the fact that CCP advertises "drinking with devs" as one of the draws of fanfest.
Do you honestly believe that internet spaceship politicians should lead puritanical personal lives? Because thats a laughable stance to take for real life politicians who have real life consequences for their actions. Perhaps we should mandate that the next CSM may only consume tea and biscuits when they socialise with developers.
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Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.14 10:11:00 -
[69]
It's nice to see that Windy's obsession with the NC and Goons has finally driven him to complete insanity.
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Aryndel Samson
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.14 13:45:00 -
[70]
Hey windjammer- Why do you sign your posts? We can look to the left and see what user produced the text vomit just fine you goddamn mongoloid.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 19:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Yeep
Misconstruing Windjammers statement.
Let me post this again as youÆve neglected to read and comprehend. YouÆre attributing a position to me that I do not advocate. IÆll underline the pertinent part for your ease in reading. Enjoy.
Originally by: Windjammer
Congratulations upon entirely missing the point. The question under consideration was whether people act the same way in real life as they do in the game. I submit that at least some of them do and used examples to illustrate.
If a CSM member wants to drink themselves silly and act like a clown every day of their life, I could care less. ThereÆll be at least one person in the room that thinks theyÆre funny. If they want to, as you suggest, cheat on their wife, let them. Maybe the wife will catch them and get a nice settlement out of it as well as get rid of the loser.
How did you work any of that into the possibility of an impeachment? I know you were trying to be absurd, but you could have put more effort into it. Come on.
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. HereÆs a little hint; it doesnÆtÆ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.
-Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 19:43:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Aryndel Samson
Hey windjammer- Why do you sign your posts? We can look to the left and see what user produced the text vomit just fine you goddamn mongoloid.
Does it bother you?
-Windjammer
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Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:02:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Windjammer
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. HereÆs a little hint; it doesnÆtÆ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.
So why are you posting about it in a CSM thread in the CSM forum of the popular internet spaceship game Eve online?
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:35:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Windjammer
Let me know if you require further clarification or simpler words. HereÆs a little hint; it doesnÆtÆ really matter if the person is a member of the CSM, running for the CSM or just someone having nothing to do with the CSM.
So why are you posting about it in a CSM thread in the CSM forum of the popular internet spaceship game Eve online?
Because someone alleged that people act one way in the game and another way in real life. This allegation was made to support the idea that people who act like griefers, scumààà.whatever, inside EVE are in fact really nice upstanding people outside of EVE. I responded to the allegation with the post youÆve been determined to see as an attack when in fact I was merely pointing out that sometimes what you see in game is what you see in real life as far as behaviour.
Believe me, when I attack, if I attack, youÆll know it. And, no, that isnÆt a threat.
-Windjammer
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Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:41:00 -
[75]
So what part of consenting adults taking part in leisure activities enjoyed by millions of other consenting adults across the world makes these people scum?
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 00:15:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Yeep
So what part of consenting adults taking part in leisure activities enjoyed by millions of other consenting adults across the world makes these people scum?
Yeah. Cast me as a teetotaling prude.  ThatÆll play.
What makes you think I think theyÆre scum? If a guy plays scum in the game, thereÆs a chance heÆs scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, thereÆs a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, thereÆs better than a fair chance heÆs a drunken clown in real life situations. If heÆs a whiner in the game, thereÆs a real good chance heÆs a whiner in real life.
This sequence can be extended ad finem, but IÆm pretty sure you can see the trend.
-Windjammer
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.04.15 01:04:00 -
[77]
Edited by: White Tree on 15/04/2011 01:04:59
Originally by: Windjammer
If a guy plays scum in the game, thereÆs a chance heÆs scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, thereÆs a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, thereÆs better than a fair chance heÆs a drunken clown in real life situations. If heÆs a whiner in the game, thereÆs a real good chance heÆs a whiner in real life.
No. No. This is not how the Internet and videogames work at all, do not do this.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.15 01:10:00 -
[78]
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 01:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: White Tree
Edited by: White Tree on 15/04/2011 01:04:59
Originally by: Windjammer
If a guy plays scum in the game, thereÆs a chance heÆs scum in real life. If he likes to grief in the game, thereÆs a fair chance he likes to grief in real life. If a guy comes off as a drunken clown in the game, thereÆs better than a fair chance heÆs a drunken clown in real life situations. If heÆs a whiner in the game, thereÆs a real good chance heÆs a whiner in real life.
No. No. This is not how the Internet and videogames work at all, do not do this.
Do not do what?
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 01:46:00 -
[80]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, forum troll at large
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 01:50:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Windjammer on 15/04/2011 01:50:39
erasure of a double post
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.15 06:36:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.
Actually, it's proof of the fact that you have no idea what a logical fallacy is. Don't worry, as I'm not a troll, I can actually point out your errors. Also as I'm not a troll, I can actually point out your own words and why they're wrong.
Food for thought.
Anyways, the Appeal to Ridicule attempts to substitute mockery for an actual argument. This, however, is not what actually happened. What I did was used an argument of analogy to point out that the same hysteria you're trying to use in your personal grudge against certain CSM members is based on the the same logical fallacies that the loons who demonized Dungeons and Dragons used. Namely, that "If a guy plays scum in the game, thereÆs a chance heÆs scum in real life." Or as the anti Dungeons and Dragons cruasaders put it, "people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists."
Your argument about how we have to mistrust people who play as badguys in an internet spaceship game because they might just be a badguy in real life? Well, that uses the same logical fallacy as the assumption that someone who plays an evil mage in D&D might just be a Satanist.
It is, essentially, a variation on the quoting out of context fallacy, where you attempt to strip away the fact that someone is playing a character in an MMO, and using that character to form conclusions about the person. Much like someone accusing the actor who plays MacBeth of murder.
It is also an (actual) example of circular reasoning whereby your conclusion, that people's actions in game may tell us something about who they are out of game, is used as your premise, which is that people's actions in game can predict how they may act out of game.
It is also an example of ****hoc ergo proper hoc, where you've attempted to create a fallacious causal or predictive relationship between behavior in-game and behavior out of game simply because they both occur in the same person.
It's also an example of the fallacy of bifurcationwhereby someone who is a "badguy" in game may just be a "badguy" in real life, rather than there being an entire continum of behaviors and views about those behaviors, both in-game and out and even if they were all agreed upon, someone being "scum" in game would not mean that they had to either be "scum" or "virtuous" out of game, but that the whole range of human behavior could be possible until we knew something about them as a person and not just as a gamer.
It is also an example of confirmation bias, whereby those who are "badguys" in EVE and also are "badguys" out of EVE go to prove your claims, but all those who who merrily grief in game and are good people in real life are conveniently ignored.
And that's just a few. There is, literally, nothing any more cogent or coherent about claiming that people's actions in an MMO game like EVE are predictive of their personal lives than about claiming that someone who plays a doctor on television can really perform surgery.
None of that, of course, gets at the utter hilarity of your rage over the fact that an adult, on vacation, while his vacation was taking place prior to his even officially being placed on the important-internet-spaceship-focus-group, drank.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.15 18:04:00 -
[83]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
I believe this is a sighting of the all too common reductio ad ridiculum.
Typical over long discourse in which I once again display my ability to write terms I have little to no understanding of.
By using a weak analogy, aka faulty analogy, aka questionable analogy, zero introduces mockery into his statement and that is reductio ad ridiculum (reduction to the absurd), an appeal to mockery.
The attempt on zeroÆs part to discredit my analogies hinges upon him following the sequence I laid out to his absurd conclusion. Additionally, he characterizes my statements of probability as statements of certainty. I say, ôIf he likes to grief in the game, thereÆs a fair chance he likes to grief in real life.ö Zero rewrites this to, ôIf he likes to grief in game, he must grief in real life.ö Then zero argues against his rewrite. This is the essence of the logical fallacy known as the Straw Man argument. ItÆs a shabby way to lie, but zero has convinced himself that it deceives readers. In itself, a measure of his intellect as well as a measure of his inability to see just how many are his intellectual superiors.
WeÆve all run into the guys who love to grief in game and weÆve seen how a fair number of them love to grief in real life. Zero would extend this simple observation to the absurdity of believing those who play D and D must therefore be Satanists. Since this is obviously untrue, zero then circles back around to say that if the one is untrue, the other is untrue. In other words, zero would have you believe that, for instance, a guy who loves griefing in EVE is not someone who loves griefing in real life, ever.
This is why it is unwise to argue philosophy with someone like zero. Their argument is obviously absurd, they stubbornly refuse to admit it, argue for the sheer sake of arguing, attempt to use terms they do not understand and then argue about the interpretation of those terms when challenged by people who do understand them.
Zero depends upon bulk without quality. Both in his writing and in his game play. ItÆs blob writing and while the blob tactic works in EVE combat, it utterly fails in writingààà.or in logic.
-Windjammer
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.15 18:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Windjammer
Typical over long discourse in which I once again display my ability to write terms I have little to no understanding of.
Lying and trolling again Windy?
Why, what are the odds? It's almost like you're physically incapable of actually responding to facts and have to lie and troll about them.
Originally by: Windjammer
By using a weak analogy, aka faulty analogy, aka questionable analogy
Again, you demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what logical fallacies are. You obviously have no clue, at all, what the fallacy of false analogy is.
Here's a hint, troll: there are two situations where people who play a role in a game specifically designed for that purpose are having their in-game character used to cast aspersions about their out-of-game behavior.
No false analogy, you're just lying. As usual.
Originally by: Windjammer
I say, ôIf he likes to grief in the game, thereÆs a fair chance he likes to grief in real life.ö Zero rewrites this to, ôIf he likes to grief in game, he must grief in real life.ö
As you are a liar and a troll, that never actually happened. You've invented that quote, because you are a liar and are trolling. If you contend otherwise, cite the post and quote where I said that. But we all know you're lying, anyways. Which is why you won't provide any such quote. Contrary to your pathological lying, what I actually said was "we have to mistrust people who play as badguys in an internet spaceship game because they might just be a badguy in real life".
People who aren't lying trolls will note the "might be" in what I said.
Quote:
This is the essence of the logical fallacy known as the Straw Man argument.
Ah, so you have no idea what a strawman fallacy is, or you do and you're lying, again.
Your argument really was that people who are "scum" in game might just be "scum" in real life because of how they play the game.
Quote:
Zero would extend this simple observation to the absurdity of believing those who play D and D must therefore be Satanists.
Lying and trolling again Windy?
What did I actually say, liar?
"the same logical fallacy as the assumption that someone who plays an evil mage in D&D might just be a Satanist. "
"people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists."
People who are not liars will note the use of "potential" and "might" in my quotes and "must therefore" in your lying bit of trolling.
Quote:
zero would have you believe that, for instance, a guy who loves griefing in EVE is not someone who loves griefing in real life, ever.
No, I'd point out that you are a pathological liar and a troll, and you lie about things that are right above your post when anybody can see you're lying. What I actuallys aid was:"someone being "scum" in game would not mean that they had to either be "scum" or "virtuous" out of game, but that the whole range of human behavior could be possible until we knew something about them as a person and not just as a gamer."
Folks who are not liars will notice that the "not ever" is a lie you're using, not what I actually said.
So aside from being unable to offer a single logical rebuttal to the facts that show your arugment is awful, all you can do is lie with pretty much every single statement you make.
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.15 19:29:00 -
[85]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, forum troll at large
More long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish in which I attempt the magical trick of changing the color blue to red before your very eyes.
Hypocrisy, thy name is zero as well as the sum total of his success.
-Windjammer
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.15 19:51:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Windjammer
long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish
This is Windy's standard lie when proven wrong on the facts, he has to troll about how I don't 'understand' something rather than proving that I'm wrong.
Meanwhile, how many separate lies and errors did I just prove he was engaged in? Hell, something like two or three faked quotes alone plus a lie about his own claims coupled with a faked quote in order to allege that his own words are a "strawman" of his own words.
As always, since Windy only trolls and only lies in his responses to me, he can't show how I was wrong about anything. He can't point out any errors in my actual logic. He can't provide quotes for the things he said I did, but which contradict what my actual words were.
He can only lie.
Unsurprising.
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Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.16 02:08:00 -
[87]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, forum troll at large
Originally by: Windjammer
long winded pseudo intellectual gibberish
Windjammer lied, trolled, didnÆt prove me wrong, faked quotes, lied, trolled, lied, didnÆt prove me wrong, didnÆt point out my errors, didnÆt provide quotes, and lied.
I think I got it all, but you correct me if IÆm wrong, will you? To anyone whoÆs seen other posts from zero regarding people who disagree with him, that should look very familiar. Particularly the part about lying and trolling. HeÆs very fond of that whether he has a leg to stand on or not.
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero, from post 78 of this thread
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.
Does anyone else think this is a ridiculous assertion? In a world where anything might be possible, it remains very improbable to the point of absurdity. Satanists do exist, yes, but is it reasonable to think the guy playing one in a game is potentially a Satanist in real life? Would it be something youÆd be concerned about?
By comparison, I suggest that a griefer, for example, in the game of EVE has a fair chance of being a griefer in real life. Much less of a stretch. LetÆs take a case in point. ZeroÆs focus of hero worship is The Mittani, aka Mittens, aka Mits or Mitts (as in get your mitts off my stuff). Mitts plays a griefer in the game of EVE. HeÆs very good at it and seems to enjoy it a great deal. On the forums he describes himself as a sadist (his exact term) and sees nothing wrong with this. Griefer in game, griefer in real life, point proven. I should point out that I do not personally see this as necessarily being a character defect. If the rumor of him being a lawyer is true, it may even be an occupational asset.
Originally by: LordElfa
The characters that the goons and NC play in EVE are not who they are in real life and its the real life people who are going to be manning this CSM.
It was in response to this statement by LordElfa that I gave several examples of how itÆs possible for someone to be in real life what they are in the game with regard to certain behaviorÆs. I did this because Elfa seemed to be suggesting that people who act in a certain way in the game, arenÆt going to act that way out of the game.
-Windjammer
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Rika Jones
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Posted - 2011.04.16 05:43:00 -
[88]
Originally by: LordElfa
Good. I posted this elsewhere and I'll post it here as well.
Look, the fact is that while the Goons and NC may be ruthless bastards, they actually do care about and have time and money invested in EVE. They want this game to be polished and fixed because that benefits them and in turn, it benefits us.
Personally, I think they'll use this opportunity to gain some respect from the EVE playerbase for their ability to get things done and be unified while doing it. These people may be some of the most evil players in EVE, but in real life many of them are responsible and highly intelligent individuals. They play the game like *******s because thats is the game. However, what they do in the CSM is not the game, its the technical workings of the game and I think that they'll bring to the table, not the ******* characters they play, but the truly intelligent and responsible people they are in real life since that is what they'll need if they wish to get things accomplished.
You want to call me names because I support them, fine, we shall see. Don't judge a real life book by its in game cover you bunch of whiners.
Give them a chance to do what the other CSM's couldn't, which is do more than blow hot air.
...and if they do screw us all, well, that will be fun too so suck it up, this isn't WoW after all.
I'll be laughing harder than that when we discover that the real goal of getting themselves elected to the CSM was to close enough to the GM staff to make it rain *****es in Jita.
Yes, the Goonswarm: Visionairy leaders.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.16 06:03:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Windjammer
To anyone whoÆs seen other posts from zero regarding people who disagree with him
Naturally, Windy is lying and trolling again. The clue is that he's posting about me. Naturally, I point out when people are lying and trolling when, ya know, they actually are. Those people who disagree with me without lying and trolling, don't get called on it. But of course, Windy knows that and is trolling about it. That's why, when I've proven over and over that Windy is a liar and a troll (just check the number of faked quoted he provided to troll), so his pattern is to either A) ignore the actual factual, logical refutations of his pathological lying and handwave about how they're wrong (never actually being able to show how they're wrong) of B) use the kind of an hominem fallacy he's using here.
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
So people who were playing Dungeons and Dragons really were potential murderous Satanists.
Learn something new every day.
Does anyone else think this is a ridiculous assertion?
Windjammer, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, recognizes that it's ridiculous to claim that someone playing an evil mage in D&D might be a satanist, but thinks it's perfectly reasonable to think that someone who plays a griefer in EVE might be "scum" in real life.
Earlier, he lied and claimed that this was a false analogy and a strawman.
Originally by: Windjammer
ZeroÆs focus of hero worship
Again, the test: is Windy making a claim about me? Yes. Is it on the forums? Yes.
Is he lying and trolling?
Do I even need to ask?
Of course as Windy doesn't post at me without lying and trolling, I've engaged in no hero worship. Windy, however, is obsessed with The Mittani to the point of conducting a libelous internet campaign against an internet cite that publishes his stuff, and him personally in order to get him fired. Windy is is obsessed with Mittens personally and with people being "masters" and "superiors" in an internet-spaceship game. There are several leather clubs that can cater to Windy's odd obsession, but trying to shoehorn it into EVE is more than a little bit creepy.
Of course, Windy is almost definitely lying and trolling, as is standard. Only an idiot would believe that offering factual refutations to accusations made against someone means that the person is "hero worshiping" or wants to be the "slave" to the "master" or wants to be the "inferior" to the "superior" person. Most likely, Windy is just enraged by being proven wrong, and is desperately casting about for personal insults he can possibly use.
Quote:
Griefer in game, griefer in real life, point proven.
As Windy doesn't know anything about even basic logic, this is just one of his series of already debunked fallacies. It'd be like finding one D&D player who was also a Satanist, and declaring "point proven".
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Malcanis
Caldari
Alcohlics Anonymous
|
Posted - 2011.04.16 16:17:00 -
[90]
I really hope the new and improved new forums have an "ignore" feature.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.16 21:43:00 -
[91]
I'd be willing to sacrifice an ignore feature if we got an intelligence test that was required before people could post.
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.16 23:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Malcanis
I really hope the new and improved new forums have an "ignore" feature.
As do I. It's much needed. Alternately, I'd be just as pleased with a properly administered intelligence test or even a standard of judgment to determine worth of content which could be used to eliminate a ton of posts.
Of course in the later theyÆd have to hire on another moderator, or more, just to keep up.
-Windjammer
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Marcella Moreau
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.17 16:02:00 -
[93]
I'm taking a wait and see posture right now. Because I joined before the election, I couldn't vote and rightly so--no complaints there. I think that if the Goons and their allies in the CSM understand that they now represent all of the EVE playerbase--big nullsec alliances, small nullseccers, wildcatters, lowsec pirates, pvpers, and dwellers, and yes, hisec carebears as well, then they'll do ok. If not and this is nothing more than an elaborate Goon prank, then from what I understand about the CSM there's very little real damage they can do. The CSM has no actually authority as far as setting game policies is concerned--it merely acts as an intermediary and advisory body between the players and CCP with both groups being able to ignore CSM if they feel the need to do so. CCP doesn't have to follow the CSM's recommendations and we players do not have to go through the CSM to express our ideas, recommendations, or concerns to CCP.
Basically, it's up to the Mittani and the other Goons as to how they want to shape the CSM. If they're truly interested in representing the interests of the entire EVE community, then that's great. If not, don't worry, no real damage will be done as this CSM will be nothing more than a series of "high level meetings with low level thinking."
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."
Groucho Marx |
Joane Wilder
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Posted - 2011.04.20 05:48:00 -
[94]
Mittani and other prominient goons have stated that their goal is destroy eve. See the original threadnaught. They have not been able to actually do it in game and this is the last place that they can try to destroy it.
Remember you get what you pay for.
But tbh the goons of today are not the goons of 2007 so I am not quite ready to condemn Mittens and co. But I feel that I may be proven correct in my assumption that they are still on that endeavor.
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Jessie42
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.20 11:31:00 -
[95]
Literally controlling your game~
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Killer Gandry
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.20 15:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: LordElfa
The characters that the goons play in EVE are not who they are in real life
Beg to differ.
Goons leader plays an ******** and also said himself he's one in real life.
Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life. |
Killer Gandry
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:58:00 -
[97]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
I'd be willing to sacrifice an ignore feature if we got an intelligence test that was required before people could post.
But then we wouldn't be able to read any crap from you anymore. Unless you cheat and let your 4 year old nephew take the test for you. ( Which I suspect will happen )
Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.20 18:51:00 -
[98]
As much as i dislike the way the Mittani and others campaigned for their CSM slots i am certainly willing to sit back and give them a chance to prove themselves now the dust is settling and actual work is getting done.
Who knows, we may actually be pleasantly surprised, which would be nice 
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Tarikan
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Posted - 2011.04.26 01:21:00 -
[99]
as i do recall, the GOONS have probably been the ones to contribute the most to this game in making it become the eve you play now.
ah yes, a good number of occasions and conflict between the Goons and CCP do fit this statement.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.26 08:04:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: LordElfa
The characters that the goons play in EVE are not who they are in real life
Beg to differ.
Goons leader plays an ******** and also said himself he's one in real life.
At the risk of assuming that you're not just trolling... we've already been over the many logical fallacies this sort of claim is based on.
You've added a few more.
We've got the Anecdotal Fallacy, the Biased Sample Fallacy and the fallacy of Hasty Generalization. All in all they're fairly basic population-dynamics fallacies that are quite easy to learn, identify, and thereby avoid. These are cognitive skills that your average 12 year old can learn, at least once they pass the threshold between concrete and abstract thinking. So it should be a simple matter for any adult to master logical thinking along this axis and make sloppy, fallacious rationalizations literally un-thinkable.
If they actually want to, that is.
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
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Habaticus
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 02:47:00 -
[101]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
At the risk of assuming that you're not just trolling...[quote
No Zero, he's not trolling - we leave that to you.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.27 23:28:00 -
[102]
Ooooh, meta trolling, nifty. Trolling me in order to lie and claim I'm trolling. How very edgy. Of course, it'd be trivially easy show that I was wrong. Ya know, if I was, and you weren't trolling.
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister
Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
killerco
Gallente
Incompertus INC
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.04.30 08:57:00 -
[103]
What people might forget is that the CSM has no real power! If CCP says NO its NO and their is not a damm thing anybody can do about it (beside leaving the game ofc)!
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Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:31:00 -
[104]
Why are mummy and daddy arguing? 
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Scooter McCabe
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Posted - 2011.05.28 08:04:00 -
[105]
So will Titans finally become cost effective? Oh and will Mittens bring back the area effect for Doomsday Weapons, I know how much he loved that.
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raney ilara
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Posted - 2011.06.04 21:52:00 -
[106]
Quote:
So the Goons and NC control the CSM
I don't see the problem; you've got goons to represent 0.0 and NC to rrepresent high sec.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.05 08:41:00 -
[107]
Who are the "NC"?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Darcy D'Spledide
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Posted - 2011.06.05 14:56:00 -
[108]
Is there a simple, hard-and-fast list of what the CSM has done?
Not minutes, not notes or suggestions.
A bullet-pointed list of in-game stuff that the CSM has had a hand in.
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Zelda Wei
Caldari
New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:20:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Darcy D'Spledide
Is there a simple, hard-and-fast list of what the CSM has done?
Not minutes, not notes or suggestions.
A bullet-pointed list of in-game stuff that the CSM has had a hand in.
This just about sums it all up.
Originally by: The Mittani
i ate a bucket full of icelandic lobsters last night and what came out of my ass this morning looked like the end of eve~
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Abesch Klaridon
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:38:00 -
[110]
tut power block.. ****s .. **** off
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Captain Torgo
The Geedunk Expedition
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Posted - 2011.06.22 04:47:00 -
[111]
Originally by: LordElfa
...and if they do screw us all, well, that will be fun too so suck it up, this isn't WoW after all.
Well, at least they can't possibly do any worse than previous CSMs
*cough*Larkonis*Mazz*Vuk Lau*Ankh*cough*
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