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Tekonsis
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Posted - 2011.03.30 07:46:00 -
[1]
I was missioning and someone comes takes one of my cans and goes red, i thought it was a noob and i shot at him to shoo him away but he does not leave, then right before i destroy his ship an orca jumps in and he switches his ship in it.
The orca does not turn red and there is absolutely nothing i can do as he blows me up in a fresh ship. I was shocked that the orca can do this with no timer or any kind of recourse to fully supporting a GCCed player. While a remote repair ship would be red but how much greater is an orca helping yet nothing is done to the orca.
Is there plans to fix at all? IF not then i plan on using this orca flipping method as well. In fact i will make it a point to do this to as many new players as possible with hopes of discouraging new players from playing eve un-till something is done about this.
I thing if done in a large amount ccp might take note and actually fix this.
when you help a GCC pilot you should be red at the very least.
I want so many people
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.03.30 07:58:00 -
[2]
Just pointing out he didn't have GCC. You got aggression rights on him after he stole from you and he got them on you after you engaged him in combat. Nothing to do with GCC. It's also an act of gross stupidity to aggress people who are intentionally trying to make you do just that. They wouldn't do it if they weren't confident they can take you out.
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Lors Dornick
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:08:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Tekonsis
I was missioning and someone comes takes one of my cans and goes red, i thought it was a noob and i shot at him to shoo him away but he does not leave, then right before i destroy his ship an orca jumps in and he switches his ship in it.
The orca does not turn red and there is absolutely nothing i can do as he blows me up in a fresh ship. I was shocked that the orca can do this with no timer or any kind of recourse to fully supporting a GCCed player. While a remote repair ship would be red but how much greater is an orca helping yet nothing is done to the orca.
Is there plans to fix at all? IF not then i plan on using this orca flipping method as well. In fact i will make it a point to do this to as many new players as possible with hopes of discouraging new players from playing eve un-till something is done about this.
I thing if done in a large amount ccp might take note and actually fix this.
when you help a GCC pilot you should be red at the very least.
I want so many people
The reason behind this behaviour is the game mechanics used in maintenance bays (and ship arrays).
When the player, in ship #1, uses the "board ship from bay" ship #2 is ejected (empty) from the bay, the pilot is then moved from ship #1 to ship #2 and finally ship #1 is stored in back in the bay.
The Orca pilot isn't involved in anyway and his (or less often her) ship is only providing a passive storage function.
And note that the pilot didn't have a GCC, since he just stole from you, and you started to shoot at him.
If he'd been under GCC, Concord would have destroyed his ship, or possibly even both of them (as in new and old, not the Orca).
// Lors |
Tekonsis
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Just pointing out he didn't have GCC. You got aggression rights on him after he stole from you and he got them on you after you engaged him in combat. Nothing to do with GCC. It's also an act of gross stupidity to aggress people who are intentionally trying to make you do just that. They wouldn't do it if they weren't confident they can take you out.
regardless of points, if you help a player that is in combat you should be also in combat otherwise they have a huge advantage.
I think the only reason ccp has done nothing about this is because its not used enough so not enough attention is given to the issue.
I'm sure with another hundred or so people complaining they might take notice. 2 or 3 weeks of training for an orca and its a done deal.
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:15:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Loraine Gess on 30/03/2011 08:15:49
Originally by: Tekonsis
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Just pointing out he didn't have GCC. You got aggression rights on him after he stole from you and he got them on you after you engaged him in combat. Nothing to do with GCC. It's also an act of gross stupidity to aggress people who are intentionally trying to make you do just that. They wouldn't do it if they weren't confident they can take you out.
regardless of points, if you help a player that is in combat you should be also in combat otherwise they have a huge advantage.
I think the only reason ccp has done nothing about this is because its not used enough so not enough attention is given to the issue.
I'm sure with another hundred or so people complaining they might take notice. 2 or 3 weeks of training for an orca and its a done deal.
They have a huge advantage when they trick you into engaging them when you're in a PVE ship?! 
Of course they do. The only unfair PVP are the fights you lose. All tactics are fair game (Unless deemed exploits by CCP).
Also suddenly ninjas uses this as standard operating doctrine. They've petitioned and it's a-okay, so it's still your fault.
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Tekonsis
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lors Dornick
The reason behind this behaviour is the game mechanics used in maintenance bays (and ship arrays).
When the player, in ship #1, uses the "board ship from bay" ship #2 is ejected (empty) from the bay, the pilot is then moved from ship #1 to ship #2 and finally ship #1 is stored in back in the bay.
The Orca pilot isn't involved in anyway and his (or less often her) ship is only providing a passive storage function.
I disagree, an orca pilot providing a player that is in the middle of combat with a fresh new ship makes the orca pilot involved.
What tops giving a player a new ship? that's basically an I win button.
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Commander TGK
Gallente
The Deep Space Armada
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:21:00 -
[7]
This is a really simple issue, don't shoot at people trying to get aggro from you. How have you lasted so long without this happening before?
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tekonsis
Originally by: Lors Dornick
The reason behind this behaviour is the game mechanics used in maintenance bays (and ship arrays).
When the player, in ship #1, uses the "board ship from bay" ship #2 is ejected (empty) from the bay, the pilot is then moved from ship #1 to ship #2 and finally ship #1 is stored in back in the bay.
The Orca pilot isn't involved in anyway and his (or less often her) ship is only providing a passive storage function.
I disagree, an orca pilot providing a player that is in the middle of combat with a fresh new ship makes the orca pilot involved.
What tops giving a player a new ship? that's basically an I win button.
I guess when they retrieve a ship from station, the station should be flagged flashy red as well? Or if player A leaves a wreck floating in space, player B engages you, you shoot player B, player B picks up stuff from the wreck, should player A be flagged to you?
Of course not. You can also bring an orca in and change ships on the fly, but you didn't.
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Tekonsis
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Posted - 2011.03.30 08:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Loraine Gess
Edited by: Loraine Gess on 30/03/2011 08:15:49
Originally by: Tekonsis
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Just pointing out he didn't have GCC. You got aggression rights on him after he stole from you and he got them on you after you engaged him in combat. Nothing to do with GCC. It's also an act of gross stupidity to aggress people who are intentionally trying to make you do just that. They wouldn't do it if they weren't confident they can take you out.
regardless of points, if you help a player that is in combat you should be also in combat otherwise they have a huge advantage.
I think the only reason ccp has done nothing about this is because its not used enough so not enough attention is given to the issue.
I'm sure with another hundred or so people complaining they might take notice. 2 or 3 weeks of training for an orca and its a done deal.
They have a huge advantage when they trick you into engaging them when you're in a PVE ship?!
Of course they do. The only unfair PVP are the fights you lose. All tactics are fair game (Unless deemed exploits by CCP).
Also suddenly ninjas uses this as standard operating doctrine. They've petitioned and it's a-okay, so it's still your fault.
So then why is it when you remote shield rep you turn red but giving a red player a new ship you do not? I'm over that I've been out smarted in this case, what i want is the orca to be red as it is helping a red player.
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DmitryEKT
Waterboard
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Posted - 2011.03.30 10:17:00 -
[10]
And while he was changing ships and didn't have you tackled, you didn't warp out why?
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Talos Nur
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Posted - 2011.03.30 10:33:00 -
[11]
And if the Orca would have become flashy to you then what? That would have allowed you to kill both ships somehow? I fail to see how the outcome would have been different if the Orca would have gone flashy. So the Orca would have needed to dock for 15 minutes.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.03.30 10:39:00 -
[12]
This also works with carriers. A battleship can sit on a station in low sec and flail away on anything untill something comes along that can kil it. Thats where the carrier comes in. It scoops the BS up and then docks meaning the BS can ignore the 30 second docking time. It sucks balls but so far CCP lets it happen.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.30 11:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Talos Nur
And if the Orca would have become flashy to you then what? That would have allowed you to kill both ships somehow? I fail to see how the outcome would have been different if the Orca would have gone flashy. So the Orca would have needed to dock for 15 minutes.
Yes then you can set a trap for the Orca, which is usually a lot more expensive then some gankfit designed to take out a mission ship.
Then it would be fine. Right now it's riskfree for the Orca, despite that it has not just an active role in the battle, but a crucial one.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Solar Nexus.
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.30 11:31:00 -
[14]
It also works where if you are about to die you just dump your ship in a neut Orca and run away. This tactic was used by fail high sec warriors.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.30 11:34:00 -
[15]
Docking games suck, film at 11.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.03.30 11:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tekonsis
i thought it was a noob and i shot at him to shoo him away but he does not leave, then right before i destroy his ship an orca jumps in and he switches his ship in it.
confirming you deserved what you got for taking the bait. yes even mild forms of Darwinism still apply in EVE.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:09:00 -
[17]
My real-life philosophy would come in useful here: if someone is ****ing you off, just **** off somewhere else. Also, don't hang out with people who make you feel unhappy. Finally, it's better to be alone than in bad company :p.
Now, as this applies to Eve: make use of the warp button.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Omni Industrial Coalition
Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 30/03/2011 12:29:40
Originally by: Loraine Gess
Originally by: Tekonsis
Originally by: Lors Dornick
The reason behind this behaviour is the game mechanics used in maintenance bays (and ship arrays).
When the player, in ship #1, uses the "board ship from bay" ship #2 is ejected (empty) from the bay, the pilot is then moved from ship #1 to ship #2 and finally ship #1 is stored in back in the bay.
The Orca pilot isn't involved in anyway and his (or less often her) ship is only providing a passive storage function.
I disagree, an orca pilot providing a player that is in the middle of combat with a fresh new ship makes the orca pilot involved.
What tops giving a player a new ship? that's basically an I win button.
I guess when they retrieve a ship from station, the station should be flagged flashy red as well? Or if player A leaves a wreck floating in space, player B engages you, you shoot player B, player B picks up stuff from the wreck, should player A be flagged to you?
Of course not. You can also bring an orca in and change ships on the fly, but you didn't.
Flag 'em all. Let guns sort them out.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:32:00 -
[19]
Yesterday I had a Punisher in my L4 AE that started to loot my wrecks, it was so nice to see that the stories are actually true!! ;)
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:37:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 30/03/2011 12:37:02
Originally by: Commander TGK
This is a really simple issue, don't shoot at people trying to get aggro from you. How have you lasted so long without this happening before?
You realize that goes completely against any common sense.
an aggressor is an aggressor and logic dictates that you deal wit him equally.
But then again, this is eVe and logic doesn't come into play which is why I am so soft on re-subbing.
In short: CCP, eVe needs to make some kind of sense before it's enjoyable. At least for me.
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Gimpb
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:46:00 -
[21]
It does seem like it would make sense for it to flag the orca. It would allow anyone with hangar access to flag a pos or capital but that doesn't seem unreasonable.
However, I doubt that would have changed your outcome. It sounds like your real issue is you just got tricked and burned. There are tons of situations like this where posting on the forums won't help you--only a quick wit and knowledge of the game mechanics will really help.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tekonsis
So then why is it when you remote shield rep you turn red but giving a red player a new ship you do not? I'm over that I've been out smarted in this case, what i want is the orca to be red as it is helping a red player.
Because anyone can board that ship the Orca ejects, there is no way to associate the person ejecting the ship with the aggressor on the back end to make them obtain aggro. Once the ship is out of the maintenance bay, it's ffa.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Josefine Etrange
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:59:00 -
[23]
It is an expoit, no doub. It is right now no big deal. Once alliances would use this to fight wars in high sec we may call it a problem, until than: Carebears like me just should not attack anything in high sec, problem solved.
You would have been screwed the same way if instead just that second ship he used from the hangar bay would have jumped in.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Josefine Etrange
It is an expoit, no doub. It is right now no big deal. Once alliances would use this to fight wars in high sec we may call it a problem, until than: Carebears like me just should not attack anything in high sec, problem solved.
You would have been screwed the same way if instead just that second ship he used from the hangar bay would have jumped in.
No, you should warp off when an Orca arrives and get a different ship to pew-pew the aggressor.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:07:00 -
[25]
This is no different to the carrier alt that sits on a station undock in low sec (see it in FW from time to time).
Person has fast locking ship and engages WT (or goes gcc). Carrier reps them. If for some reason, the aggressor can't win, instead of having to wait out the 60 second aggro counter to dock, they put ship into the carrier and warp pod out. And it is almost impossible to kill a carrier before it can dock once it deagresses - 60 seconds is trivial for a carrier to tank unless it has something putting major major DPS into it...
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Josefine Etrange
It is an expoit, no doub. It is right now no big deal. Once alliances would use this to fight wars in high sec we may call it a problem, until than: Carebears like me just should not attack anything in high sec, problem solved.
You would have been screwed the same way if instead just that second ship he used from the hangar bay would have jumped in.
No, you should warp off when an Orca arrives and get a different ship to pew-pew the aggressor.
Or act like you're faffing about indecisively regarding whether to shoot the bait while actually calling nearby allies in to suicide gank the orca. They're apparently not hard to pop with alpha, and it would be a much bigger loss to the would-be pirate than anything else. For bonus points, drop out of your (hopefully) cheap mission boat and steal whatever pops out that's expensive-looking.
Though, maybe the fact that I keep a stack of suicide ships in my HQ "just in case" since moving to high sec is just a weird thing I do and isn't the standard practice I thought it was.
---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:22:00 -
[27]
The Orca is a disgusting abomination of a ship that should never have been introduced.
Rest easy though, the more people use it for causing carebear tears with impunity, the sooner they might delete the damm thing from the database.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:37:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tippia on 30/03/2011 13:38:33
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
They're apparently not hard to pop with alpha
You only need about 20û30 shipsà
Quote:
For bonus points, drop out of your (hopefully) cheap mission boat and steal whatever pops out that's expensive-looking.
Nothing expensive-looking ever drops from an Orca, unless the pilot has made some pretty humongous mistakes (yes, plural). Unless you count an Invuln II (at best) as expensiveà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Xercodo
Amarr
Daj'Juntar
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Posted - 2011.03.30 14:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xercodo on 30/03/2011 14:11:22
Originally by: Tekonsis
Originally by: Lors Dornick
The reason behind this behaviour is the game mechanics used in maintenance bays (and ship arrays).
When the player, in ship #1, uses the "board ship from bay" ship #2 is ejected (empty) from the bay, the pilot is then moved from ship #1 to ship #2 and finally ship #1 is stored in back in the bay.
The Orca pilot isn't involved in anyway and his (or less often her) ship is only providing a passive storage function.
I disagree, an orca pilot providing a player that is in the middle of combat with a fresh new ship makes the orca pilot involved.
What tops giving a player a new ship? that's basically an I win button.
you heard it here first ppl, he wants to destroy Jita and every station in the game 
Originally by: Tippia
You only need about 20û30 shipsà
actually just 11
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The drake is a lie
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.30 14:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Xercodo
Originally by: Tippia
You only need about 20û30 shipsà
actually just 11
That's because that orca was moron-fitted. A sane orca will have ~300k. EHP
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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