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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.04.04 08:54:00 -
[151]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 03/04/2011 17:23:01
Originally by: baltec1 In order to know the mach is docked you have to keep an eye on it and seeing as you people are not wanting to keep fleet togeter its is highly likely the mach can undock, scan out a target and be melting its face before anyone knows its out. I know because I have done it many times before.
Then we have the unprobeable nightmares and tengu or something at a POS both of which are far more deadly than anything with a cov ops cloak. There are far more ways to keep a system locked down than just AFK cloaking
The same way you expect the system to have a fleet ready at a moments notice 24/7 YOU should also be required to have a fleet at any moment's notice ready. Because risk should be for everyone, not just your enemies.
You see, you keep mentioning 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous and that I'm supposed to be ready at all times, and I should have to buddy up with a gang if I'm going to mine or PVE, and I should have to pay attention for as long as I'm out in space. And I should be ready for unconsensual PVP. And that there should be a chance for me to unexpectedly lose my mining ship. But notice how these things you insist should apply to me don't apply to you :P.
You can go AFK for DAYS, FFS, without having to worry about ANY of those things . And yet you expect me to remain vigiliant and have that fleet on standby, all while you're at the parlor having some pizza.
You are unfortunately missing the point of 0.0, I'm there to kill you as you should be there to kill me, anything else is irrelevant. You making money or doing anything else in 0.0 is only a by-product of you thinking 0.0 is anything else than a meat grinder. You're thinking 0.0 is somewhat aking to low-sec/high-sec because your under the mistaken idea that because you "own" the system or feel safe because your buddies are around you have some special right to carebear it up. Unfortunately your wrong, there are no rules in 0.0 (apart from your corp/alliance made rules) If I wish to sit in your system all day/week/month/year I can( not that I would want to be an afk cloaker), it's 0.0 that's what it's there for. It's lawless space which is designed to favour the agressor as nearly all lawless area's (real or imagined) are.
To be honest getting really tired of these 0.0 ( I live there myself) carebears who are only there to make easy isk moan when they can't and mysteriously vanish when there are wars or cta's on. You don't like it? combat it/ignore it or move to Motsu.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.04.04 09:47:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Kara Sharalien
Originally by: Marcus Welbey
1. AFK cloakers do no harm if they are afk. Well how about I come to your house and stand in your living room with my .45. I wont point it at you, i wont even say anything, im just standing there, AM I a threat?
Correction on scenario:
Well how about I come to your house and put my .45 on the table, then go do the shopping. I wont point it at you, i wont even say anything, im just out doing the shopping, AM I a threat?
You are still wrong in your scenario I would see when you are in my house and where you are not. I cant do that with an afk cloaker.
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nano bobcat
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Posted - 2011.04.04 10:23:00 -
[153]
afk cloakers are fine and simply a counter to local. You use local to detect enemy activity, afk cloakers stay in local for hours/days in order to make local useless for you in respect of that guy activity intel.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.04 11:44:00 -
[154]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 04/04/2011 11:49:37
Originally by: Signal11th You are unfortunately missing the point of 0.0, I'm there to kill you as you should be there to kill me, anything else is irrelevant. You making money or doing anything else in 0.0 is only a by-product of you thinking 0.0 is anything else than a meat grinder. You're thinking 0.0 is somewhat aking to low-sec/high-sec because your under the mistaken idea that because you "own" the system or feel safe because your buddies are around you have some special right to carebear it up. Unfortunately your wrong, there are no rules in 0.0 (apart from your corp/alliance made rules) If I wish to sit in your system all day/week/month/year I can( not that I would want to be an afk cloaker), it's 0.0 that's what it's there for. It's lawless space which is designed to favour the agressor as nearly all lawless area's (real or imagined) are.
To be honest getting really tired of these 0.0 ( I live there myself) carebears who are only there to make easy isk moan when they can't and mysteriously vanish when there are wars or cta's on. You don't like it? combat it/ignore it or move to Motsu.
No where have I suggested removing or reducing risk in 0.0. So no, I have not missed the point. The thing is that every time I suggest adding risk to inattentive AFK cloakers their brigade shows up insulting me and accusing me of wanting it safe when in fact the ones wanting it safe are you. Here it is again:
0.0 SHOULD BE DANGEROUS TO EVERYONE, INCLUDING INATTENTIVE AFK CLOAKERS.
If you want to cloak up and stalk prey 24/7, by all means do it. But BE AT THE KEYBOARD, just as anyone else in 0.0 space would need to be at the keyboard in order to avoid dying a horrible death.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
nano bobcat
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Posted - 2011.04.04 11:54:00 -
[155]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
0.0 SHOULD BE DANGEROUS TO EVERYONE, INCLUDING INATTENTIVE AFK CLOAKERS.
but, a danger for afk cloakers means they arent a danger anymore and the bears are fully safe again, since afk cloakers are the only pain they suffer right now - everything else can be blobbed the f*ck out.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:03:00 -
[156]
Originally by: nano bobcat
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
0.0 SHOULD BE DANGEROUS TO EVERYONE, INCLUDING INATTENTIVE AFK CLOAKERS.
but, a danger for afk cloakers means they arent a danger anymore and the bears are fully safe again, since afk cloakers are the only pain they suffer right now - everything else can be blobbed the f*ck out.
Cloakers are STILL a danger to system inhabitants. If you want to stalk prey you can still do it. You can get your own fleet members (you know, like that fleet you expect them to have ready at all times?) to take turns projecting a threat on the system. That way, they STILL need to remain alert and ready with a fleet on standby in case the cloakers attack and YOU also need to have a gang of willing members taking turns projecting danger unto the system.
If they slip up they die. If you slip up you die.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
nano bobcat
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:07:00 -
[157]
dont think so. The trick of afk-cloaking is to deny you the information about your activity, for that they are called "afk cloakers". Without the "afk" in cloaker there is no information denial, which makes the main part of why they are dangerous. Because you cant bait them or hunt them actively, you know.
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Lucinda Madeveda
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:11:00 -
[158]
I wish CCP would remove local chat. It would solve this problem.
In wormholes you always have cloaked people around you, you just don't know it until they decloak their 5 friends in Tengus. But this is great. You are prepared for an attack all the time because you know an enemy could hide cloaked in your system but you are not "waiting" for it. It is part of the game to take risks and in theory higher risk should have a higher reward.
And from the other point of view, Local chat ruins the chances of small scale PVP. In 0.0 you NEED to do these strange cloaking + cyno tactics if you want to get your 5 friends beyond the enemy 50-man-homedefece-fleet. And lets imagine your 5 friends are really good and you get beyond that fleet through a normal stargate into the carebear system, you won't get kills because everyone (who is not afk) docks instantly when a neut shows up in local. Stupid mechanics.
Local ruins 0.0!*
*Unless 0.0 is supposed to be the place where people can carebear in billion-isk-ships all day long with zero-risk.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:22:00 -
[159]
Originally by: nano bobcat dont think so. The trick of afk-cloaking is to deny you the information about your activity, for that they are called "afk cloakers". Without the "afk" in cloaker there is no information denial, which makes the main part of why they are dangerous. Because you cant bait them or hunt them actively, you know.
You don't have to be AFK. Why couldn't you continue to project danger unto the system?
You require that they have a fleet on standby ready to defend themselves at ALL times. Why couldn't you have fleet members take shift turns projecting that danger? What's wrong with following the advice given to carebears all this time?
If you're worried that it's boring, guess what? A fleet of PVP watching over a miner isn't exactly fun either. So what exactly is your problem with having to be at the keyboard when projecting danger to others?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
nano bobcat
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:32:00 -
[160]
because it doesnt work that way. They would always out-afk/camp you to death in every situation due to their home location advantages.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.04.04 12:36:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 04/04/2011 12:36:45 I think the ultimate solution is to scamble local in 0.0 space. Basically, due to a virus planted by the Sansha's (or some other RP crap) local will randomly show people from as far as three or five systems away, with it changing periodically. You may even not show up in local in the system you're in.
Of course, due to incursions et.al. the empires don't have the resources available at this time to invest in resolving the problem...
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