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Are Level 4's lucrative?

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Boosthungry Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:21:00 - [1] I'm returning to Eve after a year absence and returning to high sec for the first time in almost 3 years. I liquidated all my assets in 0.0 and can afford to get a Marauder. My question is, is it worth it to buy the Marauder to run level 4 missions for the Caldari Navy who I have standings with? Will the Marauder make level 4 missions go that much faster than a Raven? How much isk can be made per level 4 mission these days? Can I expect to pay off my Marauder within a certain amount of time? Thanks for answering my rather general questions, - BoostHungry
Dr Richard Dawkins	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:27:00 - [2] A navy raven will serve you better in caldari space.
Boosthungry Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2011.04.07 01:43:00 - [3] Why do you say that? The Maurauder has 4 launchers at +100% efficiency while the navy raven has 7 launchers. Does splitting up the larger number of launchers make a difference? The Marauder has higher resistances with an extra med slot and lower shield recharge time but the navy raven has more shields, but isn't the Marauder still a better tank? Does the extra low slot for BCU make the difference?
Dr Richard Dawkins	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:01:00 - [4] Edited by: Dr Richard Dawkins on 07/04/2011 02:01:35 I say that because gurista missions jam and the rats orbit out of torp range. Not only do marauders have lower sensor strength, but cruise platforms like the navy raven will allow you to project your dps to the targets you want without excess slow-boating. I hold the golem in higher esteem for angels, and many other rat types, but for caldari space you really can't beat a CNR or tengu for dealing their full dps at range.
Boosthungry Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:07:00 - [5] So it's the reload bonus of the CNR that makes it a better cruise missile boat than the Golem? Also what about my original general questions about how much money you can make in level 4 missions? I'm debating between hanging in high sec for level 4's and getting a Tengu and joining back up with an alliance and running complexes in my down times out in 0.0.
Dr Richard Dawkins	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Dr Richard Dawkins on 07/04/2011 02:21:30 Edited by: Dr Richard Dawkins on 07/04/2011 02:20:54 Originally by: Boosthungry So it's the reload bonus of the CNR that makes it a better cruise missile boat than the Golem? No, it's the fact the golem is a torp boat and very vulnerable to ecm. These combined make it a relatively poor choice in a lot of gurista missions. The CNR has vastly superior range and isn't as vulnerable to jamming, thus it's better. Originally by: Boosthungry Also what about my original general questions about how much money you can make in level 4 missions? I'm debating between hanging in high sec for level 4's and getting a Tengu and joining back up with an alliance and running complexes in my down times out in 0.0. You can make isk. How much you make varies by a HUGE amount depending on how good your isk/lp conversions is, which depends on your ability to research the best LP buys, get tags, and hock your wares on the market or in contracts. Also depends on the corp you mission for, where you mission, how you deal with inefficient missions, how efficient you are at logistics, and... I think you get the idea. You can make incredible amounts of isk (by some reports 200m+ an hour) with a very efficient process, or you could make less than half that if you were very inefficient. How it stacks up against nullsec is topic for an endless debate. Personally, i've lived in npc 0.0 for almost three years now and I'd wager I make more isk, even after my numerous pvp losses, on a regular basis than most highsec L4 missioners. Then again, I have very few points for comparison. We're talking apples and oranges. What little mission running I do is for an LP store that has almost no competition in highsec. I have complexes to thank for most of my income and that in and of itself is far more random than mission running income. I also can't help you compute the value of salvage (last i checked it sucked in caldari space, but again, it's been a while since I was in highsec) at all, which is another L4 perk that I generally ignore. If it were me making the decision, i'd just drag back into nullsec asap. I loath and despise living in empire with every fiber of my being and even if I knew that i'd pull in an extra 50mil and hour farming there, i'd still assume the risk that came with farming where I live. It's just better gameplay in my opinion.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Boosthungry So it's the reload bonus of the CNR that makes it a better cruise missile boat than the Golem? Also what about my original general questions about how much money you can make in level 4 missions? For comedy read this. He used to claim 400m/hr from high sec L4s, at least I think they were high sec. Now he's on low sec 4s, and the previous claim has been reduced somewhat.
Boosthungry Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:26:00 - [8] Hmmm, thanks for the input guys. I'm actually leaning towards getting a Tengu now and running missions until I go back out to 0.0 and then I will just take it with me.
Caleidascope Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.04.07 02:50:00 - [9] I have done Level 4 missions in Raven, Navy Scorpion and Navy Raven. I think I like Navy Scorpion the most. After flying Navy Scorp for a while, Navy Raven feels fragile.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.04.07 03:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Caleidascope I have done Level 4 missions in Raven, Navy Scorpion and Navy Raven. I think I like Navy Scorpion the most. After flying Navy Scorp for a while, Navy Raven feels fragile. It has to do with fit. A navy scorp with 4 bcs has the same gank as cnr with 3 bcs, while having better cap and far better tank. Once you put on a 4th bcs on cnr, it gets low on tank and cap.
Caleidascope Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.04.07 03:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Caleidascope I have done Level 4 missions in Raven, Navy Scorpion and Navy Raven. I think I like Navy Scorpion the most. After flying Navy Scorp for a while, Navy Raven feels fragile. It has to do with fit. A navy scorp with 4 bcs has the same gank as cnr with 3 bcs, while having better cap and far better tank. Once you put on a 4th bcs on cnr, it gets low on tank and cap. Yep, that is the fit I am using for Navy Scorp, 4x t2 bcs in low. In comparison, right now I have only one bcs on the Navy Raven. Another thing, 93km range of the Navy Raven is such a let down after having 112km range of the Navy Scorp. This is my second Navy Raven. Honestly, if I knew better at the time, I would probably never buy my first Navy Raven. I should have gotten Navy Scorp back then and it is 100 mil cheaper than Navy Raven too.
Nibria Scott	Posted - 2011.04.07 05:58:00 - [12] Navy Scorp or raven good, marauders bad. But TBH I run all my Caldari l4`s in a drake. Cheap to fit and replace (altho I have never lost one yet)and they don`t take much longer to run than with a BS.Having 80m sp may make a difference too :P
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2011.04.07 06:29:00 - [13] With new brilliant changes to sov 0sec systems -> lev 4 missions are THE best way to earn loads of ISK now. Golem works nice, so does tengu, so does CNR. Take your pick :) Regards I.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.04.07 07:42:00 - [14] Originally by: AstarothPrime With new brilliant changes to sov 0sec systems -> lev 4 missions are THE best way to earn loads of ISK now. With the brilliant changes to nullsec upgrades, sanctums and havens are an even better way to earn boatloads of ISK right now. The catch is that only some of the systems have them. You can earn decent ISK while being combat-ready, running the other anomalies that are still available through the system upgrades. There's also exploration or belt ratting as an income stream in nullsec, even in high trusec systems. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
ExcalibursTemplar	Posted - 2011.04.07 10:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Boosthungry I'm returning to Eve after a year absence and returning to high sec for the first time in almost 3 years. I liquidated all my assets in 0.0 and can afford to get a Marauder. My question is, is it worth it to buy the Marauder to run level 4 missions for the Caldari Navy who I have standings with? Will the Marauder make level 4 missions go that much faster than a Raven? How much isk can be made per level 4 mission these days? Can I expect to pay off my Marauder within a certain amount of time? Thanks for answering my rather general questions, - BoostHungry Earning around 20 to 40 mill an hour is realistic from what ive experienced for running L4 missions in high sec. You could probably make much more if you destroyed your faction standings so you can get some of the dog tags you need without having to pay for them. You could probably make even more on top of that if you actually sold the LP items yourself. Selling LP items yourself is a nightmare though as there are just so many people station trading and screwing up the prices. Seriously many faction items being sold on the market are worth much less than the actual dogs tags that are used to redeem the items in LP stores. As for choice of ship personally i've flown both the Scorpion navy issue and the Raven navy issue. The CNR though is by far the better ship as it has a lot more gank which helps you blitz missions faster. The Scorpion navy issue is a nice ships its just got way to much tank and not enough gank compared to the CNR.
Me Gusta	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:11:00 - [16] Edited by: Me Gusta on 07/04/2011 12:15:21 They used to very lucrative but over the past year CCP has nerfed all sorts of stuff relating to them, such as making battleships mostly drop crap or nothing at all and rogue drones dropping way less minerals than they did, now you'll only get about half the income you would have got a year ago. That - plus they can't seem to help adding crap missions that are either extremely hard with minimal rewards such as "Mining Misappropriation" for example or editing existing missions so that they take longer in some way, reducing isk/ph. Mining Misappropriation is a perfect example of this, it used to be an easyish mission that dropped decent loot, now it has the strongest BS rats you will find in the game besides the sleepers, the last 4 spawns are able to break an 700~ dps tank with ease and to top it off they drop crap, I can do any other level 4 with ease, including the bonus room of AE4, but MM is the only mish where I have to hurry to kill at least 1/2 of the last spawn before my tank collapses. I think it's pretty hilarious how I'm able to tank level 4 Recon 1/3 and full aggro from stop the thief, but 4 bs rats in an extremely low paying mission are able to send my tank down the toilet when they get into their optimal. PS: Have fun, they've now made NPC's jam much more than they did, now missions will take even longer to complete.
Unknown Gamer Unknown Gamer Incorporated	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:16:00 - [17] Rattlesnake, perhaps? The 'other' afk ship. (also, cheaper than a CNR, Golem, and Navy Scorp.) My .02 ISK.
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.10 04:12:00 - [18] Want to ask: why the hell do you need gank in a mission of any kind? Perhaps some folks don't know what gank is? Just to clarify, gank = webbers and warp disruptors/scramblers, where the purpose is to keep the target close at hand. (Distance/speed control.) As caldari ships should be shield tanked, why would you gimp your tank for gank in a mission? And especially when you can just field a flight of drones and wtfbbqpwn the frigs? Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
Aldo Bridger	Posted - 2011.04.10 04:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Soldarius Want to ask: why the hell do you need gank in a mission of any kind? Perhaps some folks don't know what gank is? Just to clarify, gank = webbers and warp disruptors/scramblers, where the purpose is to keep the target close at hand. (Distance/speed control.) As caldari ships should be shield tanked, why would you gimp your tank for gank in a mission? And especially when you can just field a flight of drones and wtfbbqpwn the frigs? Trollface? Gank in this forum (and as far as i'm aware, anywhere in the pve) simply means ship dps. Webifiers and warp disruptors are generally called "tackle," not "gank." You'll frequently hear someone refer to a gank setup rather than an over-tanked setup. They are simply referring to a ship that eliminates targets fast enough that tank endurance isn't an issue. The nightmare is a good example. Most of them can't run their shield booster for more than a few minutes, but that isn't a problem because they project almost 1k turret dps to a distance of over 70km and have spectacular tracking. As far as drones are concerned, flight time and aggression mechanics makes them a liability for the most efficient missioner. Ideally he will rely on his drones as little as possible. Most mach and nightmare pilots rarely need to launch their drones and (obviously) ships like the tengu do just fine without them.
Droopy Dog	Posted - 2011.04.10 05:08:00 - [20] Get a TENGU :) Hull costs round 200mil maybe another 200mil for subs and with a t2 fit can do any lvl4. Nice to have some Navy BCS @ 100mil each so 700mil gets you a damn good PvE ship at a smaller cost than a marauder and is quicker to train.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Soldarius Want to ask: why the hell do you need gank in a mission of any kind? Perhaps some folks don't know what gank is? Just to clarify, gank = webbers and warp disruptors/scramblers, where the purpose is to keep the target close at hand. (Distance/speed control.) As caldari ships should be shield tanked, why would you gimp your tank for gank in a mission? And especially when you can just field a flight of drones and wtfbbqpwn the frigs? Er, no. what you refer to is called 'tackling'. Gank just means overwhelming damage. -- Originally by: Brian Ballsack please learn to use english if your gonna post
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:34:00 - [22] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 10/04/2011 08:39:21 Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Caleidascope I have done Level 4 missions in Raven, Navy Scorpion and Navy Raven. I think I like Navy Scorpion the most. After flying Navy Scorp for a while, Navy Raven feels fragile. It has to do with fit. A navy scorp with 4 bcs has the same gank as cnr with 3 bcs, while having better cap and far better tank. Once you put on a 4th bcs on cnr, it gets low on tank and cap. still about 50 dps short in my eft (in favor of the cnr, plus/minus a bit depending on drone choice) and eh fit a damn cap booster and what cap issues cnr = gank ftw!
Murdock Jern Caldari Gears of Progress	Posted - 2011.04.11 06:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Boosthungry I'm returning to Eve after a year absence and returning to high sec for the first time in almost 3 years. I liquidated all my assets in 0.0 and can afford to get a Marauder. My question is, is it worth it to buy the Marauder to run level 4 missions for the Caldari Navy who I have standings with? Will the Marauder make level 4 missions go that much faster than a Raven? How much isk can be made per level 4 mission these days? Can I expect to pay off my Marauder within a certain amount of time? Thanks for answering my rather general questions, - BoostHungry I've been using a Golem in Motsu for L4 missions on and off now for some years. I have also used CNRs as well. and I guess one of the small perks of the Golem, isnt so much the DPS (as you could get similar performance with a CNR), but its bonuses on tractor beams and the ability to put in an extra salvager. That way, you can kill and eat at the same time. MJ _______________________________________________ MJ
Dragon Lord Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.04.11 17:25:00 - [24] Before they screwed the range of torps the torp CNR was godly, however since then ive flown CNR,s Golems, tengus and nightmares and ill be testing out the mach soon and the best by far at least for armarr space is the nightmare, it was very quick in caldari space but insainly quick in armarr. No reloads makes a big difference and athough it only does em/thermal dmg its still an absolute beast. But I do have both caldari and armarr bs's at lvl5. Then again I have marauders at lvl5 as well and im still convinced nightmare outperforms the golem.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.11 17:36:00 - [25] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 11/04/2011 17:36:17 Originally by: Caleidascope Yep, that is the fit I am using for Navy Scorp, 4x t2 bcs in low. In comparison, right now I have only one bcs on the Navy Raven. Another thing, 93km range of the Navy Raven is such a let down after having 112km range of the Navy Scorp. Huh? My CNR has 122 km range. I snipe missions from 105 km, where I can turn the hardeners off. This is the fit I use. [Raven Navy Issue, Current] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Small Tractor Beam I Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
PewPewLaser	Posted - 2011.04.11 18:08:00 - [26] Edited by: PewPewLaser on 11/04/2011 18:09:14 Originally by: Droopy Dog Get a TENGU :) Hull costs round 200mil maybe another 200mil for subs and with a t2 fit can do any lvl4. Nice to have some Navy BCS @ 100mil each so 700mil gets you a damn good PvE ship at a smaller cost than a marauder and is quicker to train. Tengu's subs are quite a bit more than 200mil. The accelerated ejection bay is 120. Subs are over 350mil for a tengu. Tengu will blitz like a boss, ham fits can rip angels apart, cnr just does more damage and is NOT forced into using kinetic ammo to have decent dps. CNR does full dps no matter the rat type. Tengu just cant compete where bounties come in mind.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.11 19:28:00 - [27] Yes, a Golem will make more money running missions and salvaging than a Tengu or CNR if you set it up correctly, even vs Guristas. ECCM works now vs. NPCs. CNR aint bad, Tengu has the edge (over CNR) IMHO. Tengu will blitz missions faster than anything, but its not ALWAYS most profitable to blitz. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Xenuria Gallente Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet	Posted - 2011.04.11 19:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Boosthungry I'm returning to Eve after a year absence and returning to high sec for the first time in almost 3 years. I liquidated all my assets in 0.0 and can afford to get a Marauder. My question is, is it worth it to buy the Marauder to run level 4 missions for the Caldari Navy who I have standings with? Will the Marauder make level 4 missions go that much faster than a Raven? How much isk can be made per level 4 mission these days? Can I expect to pay off my Marauder within a certain amount of time? Thanks for answering my rather general questions, - BoostHungry Currently there is a huge gap in the rewards of level 4 missions and the rewards of level 5 missions. Even with all your social skills trained to the max and an agent with a quality above 30 you will find that you get less then 4 million isk per mission. There is a reason the bonus isk expires after several hours not several minutes. Quite simply because level 4 missions are unfortunately designed to take up a significant amount of time unless you have an expensive ship with expensive fits and the skills to boost your dps output. You will find that until you can do level 4 missions in less then 25 mins it is not a worthy source of income. You are better off doing the epic arcs if you can access them. Frankly they are one of the very few good examples of time investment and isk reward. Vote Support For Great Justice
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.12 06:13:00 - [29] Tengu is EONS better then Golem at full effectiveness. There is no ship better then tengu, calculated in terms of weighted average acceptable mission completion times. golem's weakness is being horrible at high isk/hour mission, like the assault, damsel, and blockade. each having 300-500m isk/hour attached to it. When a ship is bad a high isk/hour missions, its bad.

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