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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.09 23:30:00 -
[1]
Banning mechanic is terrible, discuss.
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Mr Rive
Rens 911 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.04.09 23:30:00 -
[2]
beat me to it by 30 seconds
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.04.10 00:02:00 -
[3]
confirming that the banning mechanic is terrible and that if you wanted to encourage more EHP/DPS based setups you could have just increased the point costs of recons, logi, and stuff ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Sairait
Amarr CHON THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:15:00 -
[4]
Banning rule is fine, deal with it (the teams that will get to final 16 surely will).
To those saying it will stupify the matches: it will not. There are no unique setups, just infinite variations on the several main concepts (group tank vs local tank vs passive tank, long vs. close, armor vs. shield, EW, speed, ...). Some variations are better than other, some have more surprises than other, but every setup and tactic is readable.
Banning will certainly reduce the number of the group tanks in the favour of other forms, but the variations and the rock-scissor-paper game is still there. You will need to switch setups, otherwise someone will bring a counter-setup (and there is always one for every tactic).
If anything - the matches will now be more interesting, because we will see more of the real piloting skills and good/bad tactic and decisions, instead of trained monkeys executing the game-plan with a cookie-cutter setup (which used to be the case with some of the turtle tanks in the past).
And there will obviously be much more space for the meta-game (banning the only able commander of the opposing team is surely better than banning the logistic pilot?), jedi mind tricks and drama.
/Sairait
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:46:00 -
[5]
Got to final 8 last time, and yes obviously any semi-competent team can and will "deal with it" and adapt to whatever rules CCP decide to stick us with.
Doesn't make the rule any less stupid, it dumbs down the tournament, how could anyone think almost no command ships fielded would be a good thing ? How about much fewer strategic cruisers blowing up ? Thought people wanted to see shinies explode ? Newbies not being able to field their precious Ravens and Dominixes without it being even dumber than before..
People who spend tons of time and energy on preparing for their match simply being told to f off for CCP Mindstar's amusement, so he can chortle with glee at how EVIL it is.
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sairait There are no unique setups,
This is pretty clueless.
The banning rule is necessary imo or the tourney is just identical to last year`s.
However unique ships need to be immune to the rule - by unique ships I mean ones that can only be fielded 1x (repper logis and flagships) or the tourney just becomes a rerun of at6.
Worst of all, some teams will field 2 logis and you have to guess which one has reps fitted. Suddenly this 50% chance will decide the outcome of the game, because a very good team without logi will likely loose to a mediocre team with a logi. Ofc it might generate many upsets but then you might as well replace every game with a coin flip.
- Gob
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.10 12:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Admiral Goberius The banning rule is necessary imo or the tourney is just identical to last year`s.
However unique ships need to be immune to the rule - by unique ships I mean ones that can only be fielded 1x (repper logis and flagships) or the tourney just becomes a rerun of at6.
It's not the only change they made, we have the pre-qualifier 5v5s this time, and the group stages. Perhaps the final 16 matches will be too similar to last year, that doesn't make the banning rule a good one, might as well have a rule that says a random ship on each side explodes every 3 minutes, dumb as it is it would still make more sense than the banning rule.
It's not necessery, it doesn't improve the tournament in any way and is quite simply the worst idea they've had so far. If they want a different tournament there's no shortage of better options out there.
Originally by: Sairait If anything - the matches will now be more interesting, because we will see more of the real piloting skills and good/bad tactic and decisions, instead of trained monkeys executing the game-plan with a cookie-cutter setup (which used to be the case with some of the turtle tanks in the past).
Very few matches featured turtle tanks with no skill involved, in some ways you might have a point about an increase in the relevance of pilot skill, in other ways it'll decrease it f.i. how it discourages the use bombers. These good/bad tactic and decisions will for the most part take place before the match starts and will make the match outcomes even more of a coin flip.
Originally by: Sairait
And there will obviously be much more space for the meta-game (banning the only able commander of the opposing team is surely better than banning the logistic pilot?), jedi mind tricks and drama.
Yeah we totally need more meta-gaming, there is such a huge shortage of it as is
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Mr Rive
Rens 911 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.04.10 12:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Admiral Goberius
The banning rule is necessary imo or the tourney is just identical to last year`s.
change for changes sake is ******ed, especially when it adds nothing
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Sairait
Amarr CHON THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2011.04.10 13:05:00 -
[9]
What I like about the banning rule most is that it really changes the game by adding additional layer to each tactic and basically breaks the mindset that has been adopted during past 2 tournaments. There are new scenarios to explore and new tricks to play, and the focus shifts from the master-plan to adaptability, pilot skills and good orders.
Yeah, there will be fewer big ships, biggest non-flagship ships being fielded in triplets and maybe in the end it will really mostly lead to brawls like there were in the AT6. But what was there not to like about those ? There was probably more edge-of-seat fights going down to the last ships surviving than in any other tournament so far (which is IMO much more entertaining than having the match decided in the first two minutes and then waiting for the rest of execution to happen).
Originally by: Admiral Goberius Worst of all, some teams will field 2 logis and you have to guess which one has reps fitted. Suddenly this 50% chance will decide the outcome of the game, because a very good team without logi will likely loose to a mediocre team with a logi. Ofc it might generate many upsets but then you might as well replace every game with a coin flip.
But surely, then you got played and the opponent deserves the victory, no ? Maybe you should have taken the look at their two logis, the rest of the DPS they have in the team, and then ban their most expensive, most damage-dealing or otherwise dangerous ship ? And then neutralize parts of their chain with EW and get rid of the logistics before they can outlast your team, because they now have almost no serious DPS ?
/Sairait
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Leeloo Malaquin
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.10 13:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Leeloo Malaquin on 10/04/2011 13:29:45 Edited by: Leeloo Malaquin on 10/04/2011 13:24:43 Edited by: Leeloo Malaquin on 10/04/2011 13:23:31
Originally by: Admiral Goberius The banning rule is necessary imo or the tourney is just identical to last year`s.
You could have changed things up enough by balancing the point system(there are many of flaws in it).
Also banning rule could have been much more simple:
Each team names 1 ship name they can't face during the tournament. Everyone knows beforehand what ship they can't bring vs certain team.
- If you name scimitar enemy can still bring Basilisk - If you name Rook enemy can still bring Falcon etc. - Flagships are immune to this. So if you name Bhaal enemy can still bring one against you if they have it as their flagship. - If someone isn't paying attention to the list of banned ships for each team and they bring a ship that their opposing team has banned it gets removed.
This would have actually been an easy thing to do and provided an interesting twist without forcing people off the field.
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DG J
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Posted - 2011.04.10 17:15:00 -
[11]
Terrible idea overall.
What if i want to bring a 7 man setup with 3 faction BS?
Basically with these rules we will see teams trying to keep every ship as close to 10 points as possible, since any astronomically high point value ship will go bye bye.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.11 07:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DG J Terrible idea overall.
What if i want to bring a 7 man setup with 3 faction BS?
Basically with these rules we will see teams trying to keep every ship as close to 10 points as possible, since any astronomically high point value ship will go bye bye.
You're a fool. Any team who wipes out a ship just because it's worth loads of points is shooting themselves in the foot. Eliminating a ship with the banning rule means you CANNOT obtain the points for that ship. So even if you win blindingly you'll be short 21 points, which is more than enough to lose you a spot after round 1/2 ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.11 08:01:00 -
[13]
Not really true. As long as you win you will advance regardless of points. You may not be first but that doesn't matter in the end. You still get to go to the big show. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.11 08:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kumq uat Not really true. As long as you win you will advance regardless of points. You may not be first but that doesn't matter in the end. You still get to go to the big show.
By knocking out a high point value ship in the early rounds you are taking a massive risk points wise should you lose or draw one of the other rounds ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:43:00 -
[15]
Points only matter if you lose one of your first two matches, not banning something of high point value (given the option) is shooting yourself in the foot.
Worrying about points lost when banning is pretty much idiotic, but then you're in favor of banning rule so no surprise there.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.11 11:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Points only matter if you lose one of your first two matches, not banning something of high point value (given the option) is shooting yourself in the foot.
Worrying about points lost when banning is pretty much idiotic, but then you're in favor of banning rule so no surprise there.
I'd best isk on someone losing out because they banned something worth loads of points in the early rounds ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.04.11 11:41:00 -
[17]
*The banning thing is bad because it forces all teams to skip any sophisticated setups. *The banning thing is bad because it potentially waste the time of up to 2 real persons each match. *The match thing is bad because the people wathcing the fights are missing out on entertainment. *The match thing is bad because some matches will be one-sided due to this rule alone. -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.11 12:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark *The banning thing is bad because it forces all teams to skip any sophisticated setups.
Not true. It forces playes to think outside the box with their setups, including baiting people into banning the wrong ship
Originally by: Pinky Denmark *The banning thing is bad because it potentially waste the time of up to 2 real persons each match.
True. And it sucks.
Originally by: Pinky Denmark *The match thing is bad because the people wathcing the fights are missing out on entertainment.
False. Fights will be more entertaining as there will be less skill-less turtle slugfests with unbreakable tanks
Originally by: Pinky Denmark *The match thing is bad because some matches will be one-sided due to this rule alone.
False. Unless one team is fatally ******ed and brings a terrible setup, the banning rule won't cripple beyond help any team which has prepared thoroughly ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
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