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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.10 15:17:00 -
[1]
Every so often I think this particular topic needs to be discussed yet again. Go ahead and groan, I know many of you will but truth be told far too many people, imnsho, see high sec research pos operation as an isk maker.
I will not disagree or agree: Yes I have an opinion but I'd rather try to get a fair discussion going without drawing trolls or flames that generally happens when I open my mouth.
However, I do think the topic needs be discussed as the variables have changed. Also there are many new(er) readers here who could be benefited from theoretical and practical knowledge gained by this section of the community.
So please share your opinion or experience. If you could do a tl;dr stating "Good Investment"/"Bad Investment" and then proceed into your reasoning for that decision.
Thank you.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.04.10 15:29:00 -
[2]
Bad investment. Most BPC's sell at <10% ROI. Also I've yet to find something thats going to beat the isk/hour effort of doing something else except probably supercap BPC's and cap BPC's however ROI is notoriously low.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.10 15:30:00 -
[3]
Well, being a researcher dating back since '08, I can tell you that this market has become saturated with researched blueprints.
Couple of things have changed which resulted in myself pulling out of this venture.
1. More competitors
2. POS fuel going up
3. Price of blueprint going down
All of the above has resulted in profit margin getting to the point where it wasn't worth doing it anymore.
However, copying blueprints is still a good business nowaday given that more and more players are getting into invention.
I think this is an area of the game where a new player could startup a small research corp until he's acquired enough isk and skill to do something more like invention or blueprint copying.
Investor Relation | IPO Doc |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.04.10 16:44:00 -
[4]
good investissement if you want something passive.
you just need to find what to research and which way.
and of course don't hope for the same amount of money as active activity.
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** Wormhole Trading ** |
Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.04.10 18:51:00 -
[5]
You could also consider joining a research alliance to supplement your income from selling BPCs. You can usually get 10-15k/slot/hour for ME and 1-2k for PE. This is a pretty good deal for doing absolutely nothing and will serve to pick up slack when you aren't using 100% of your labs (usually the case if you have a large POS which I believe can fit something like 12 labs).
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flakeys
The Great cornholio's
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Posted - 2011.04.10 19:21:00 -
[6]
So many things you can make a better return on with allmost the same input isk AND time wise.
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Jordus Melicia
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Posted - 2011.04.11 01:39:00 -
[7]
Worth it if you have more that 1 pilot researching
i typed a long post earlier to explain my POV but it seems like it didn't work.
Tbh you need at least 15 slots for it to become somewhat profitable, it is very easy to make a dead research alt on your account and get 10 extra slots within 2 weeks of training.
Sure the ROI is terrible if you look at BS bpos and cap components, however i prefer looking at it the following way : what makes me the most isk/month/slot? i usualy don't take the initial bpo cost into account if it is an expensive one(read here bs bpos+, cap components etc.) Why not count the bpo cost? well, its quite simple, you can resell it later to recoup your initial investment, the isk is never lost.
Some people think that researching is a career you can focus on a just live from it, well unless you have multiple billions, let me tell you that it is not very profitable. Keep in mind it is PASSIVE income, its always nice to mix it in with some active income such as trading, mission running, plexing or whatever you like.
In short, if you are beginning a fresh research career, rent slots from research alliances so you dont have to handle the big initial POS investment + fuel costs.
If you have multiple billions + research alts then you can make a decent amount of money from research but not every1 has 10b + to drop in a research venture.
My 2 cents
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.11 03:18:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Jordus Melicia
My 2 cents
Good sense I'd say. Thanks for all the advice and tips so far.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.11 06:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Jordus Melicia
My 2 cents
Good sense I'd say. Thanks for all the advice and tips so far.
I'll add my 2 cents as well as I have my little research operation running since almost 2 years ago.
It's not GREAT income. I use it as wallet padding so that my own capital BPOs get researched with POS costs covered by other people's money. The BPCs do make an income but they sell well for just few months in the year. The remaining months they may tank like most of the other stuff and it's the perfect time to churn out fresh BPCs to sell when the high times next come back again.
Also, like everything else, some BPCs make a "killing" but their value is minimal (i.e. income per slot is low even if they sell well).
The obvious Caldari stuff like Drakes and Ravens or the capital components have no real income, which is right. Let the those with no fantasy keep printing low revenue, inflationed ME 5 PE 1 BPCs while the others make much more with other stuff.
Finally there are the good BPCs, they don't yield superlative returns but are steady and not too bad. Like everything else, you need to bother performing some research of what BPCs they are and only then you make some money.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Astrii Caldari
Caldari
INOA Engineering and Research
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Posted - 2011.04.11 09:38:00 -
[10]
As someone that is focusing on a start-up research corp, this thread is very very welcome and informative.
Looks like pure research is not the best investment. Am I right in saying that copying is a better use of my time?
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Naya Sky
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Astrii Caldari
As someone that is focusing on a start-up research corp, this thread is very very welcome and informative.
Looks like pure research is not the best investment. Am I right in saying that copying is a better use of my time?
Well labs have ME,PE and Copy slots... So focusing just on research, or just on copying is not the best use of the labs. To maximize effectiveness of your POS it's nice if you have some alts so you can fill out all (most) of the available slots.
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 12:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Astrii Caldari
As someone that is focusing on a start-up research corp, this thread is very very welcome and informative.
Looks like pure research is not the best investment. Am I right in saying that copying is a better use of my time?
Not necessarily - you have to find a good area to do pure research. T2 components for example you can turn 4.5 MIL into 7 MIL with a couple days of research. There is a thread with a guy selling sets of these BPOS, researched, which he purchased for ~40mil and is now selling for ~70mil.
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Kendrick Kashuken
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Posted - 2011.04.11 14:15:00 -
[13]
The way I see it is you either go "all in" or just stay away from it.
Going all in means:
1. Having a full-size faction tower (i.e. Dread Guristas Control Tower)
2. Maxing it out on labs/advanced labs
3. Maxing all the available slots from those labs using multiple alts/accounts - this means all the ME/PE slots working on in-demand BPOs for resale, all the copy slots working on BPCs and for invention, well thats hard to fill them all - especially if you are selling most of your BPCs. So maybe just play around with a few slots for invention.
Doing this, you minimize your cost of maintenance, you minimize your cost per slot and thus you maximize your profits.
If you want to play around with smaller towers, or just one account with no alts not able to fill all the me/copy slots: Forget it.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mara Villoso on 11/04/2011 16:36:06
The BPC business isn't very profitable its true; but the research and invention uses are still very profitable.
The one thing you should not do, under any circumstances, is purchase a Dread Guristas Large POS at the incredibly inflated prices they sell for.
Last I looked, DG POS's were going for around 2.4 billion on contracts. A large Caldari POS is currently running around 185mill. The only advantage (other than HP) of a DG is less fuel consumption. At current prices, the difference between 52 weeks of fueling both types of towers with the exact same lab setup is around 650million per year. It would take 3 to 4 years of fuel savings to recoup your investment. DG faction towers are probably the most incredibly overpriced item in EVE. |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:15:00 -
[15]
Shar,
Capital BPCs are good if you can afford the initial investment of time and ISK. You can do 5 Run BPCs it takes 2 day 6 hours, 53 minutes, 20 Seconds (At top speed, copy implant and Advance Lab) for 1 BPC. That's thirteen 5 Run BPCs a month per slot. Depending on the BPC it can sell for between 4-7mil each. (13BPCs * 11 Slots) * 5mil each = 715 Mil per month. (That's a high guesstimate but you get the idea)
Setup only requires a Medium POS, four Advance Labs. Assuming it's just you and no one else. And of cause about 20B ISK to purchase the Capital Component BPOs. Requires a good amount of initial time, several months of researching the BPOs up, but once you're done it's easily a PLEX a month, and it requires little face time in front of EVE managing it.
It's not passive income but it sure feels like it.
Amarr for Life |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SencneS
Capital BPCs are good if you can afford the initial investment of time and ISK. You can do 5 Run BPCs it takes 2 day 6 hours, 53 minutes, 20 Seconds (At top speed, copy implant and Advance Lab) for 1 BPC. That's thirteen 5 Run BPCs a month per slot. Depending on the BPC it can sell for between 4-7mil each. (13BPCs * 11 Slots) * 5mil each = 715 Mil per month. (That's a high guesstimate but you get the idea)
Your numbers are incorrect.
You get 16-17 max-run capital component BPCs per month with maxed skills, copy implant and advanced lab. 17 takes you just over the 30 day limit, so that is the maximum amount you can produce per job.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SencneS on 11/04/2011 18:21:08
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
You get 16-17 max-run capital component BPCs per month with maxed skills, copy implant and advanced lab. 17 takes you just over the 30 day limit, so that is the maximum amount you can produce per job.
Ahh I found out where I went wrong, I neglected Science skill (My Excel sheet had Science Level set at 0 for some reason).
Either way, that just makes it even more attractive. Maybe the guess of 715mil a month was more in line with what to expect.
Also as a bit of info back - Lab jobs are 30 Days Maximum or 1 Copy. If 17 copies takes you over 30 days (which it does), the Maximum you can get per month per slot is 16. Unless they changed the rules, I haven't installed a copy job for at least three months.
Amarr for Life |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SencneS
Also as a bit of info back - Lab jobs are 30 Days Maximum or 1 Copy. If 17 copies takes you over 30 days (which it does), the Maximum you can get per month per slot is 16. Unless they changed the rules, I haven't installed a copy job for at least three months.
You can certainly do 17 copy jobs as I am looking at a page full of them in my S&I window right now.
I think I must have been mistaken about 17 taking you over 30 days. I was probably thinking of my alts that do not have cybernetics 5 yet as those can only produce 16 per job.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2011.04.11 23:13:00 -
[19]
Its Okay income nothing great... I have 4 Mom prints and 3 Titans making copies when I'm not building them. When i have all 6 print in full production on the SMALL POS it makes about 10 billion every month.. but that is if im very bored and don't feel like building them and making about five times that easy. I have never really used it for profit on any thing else so my opinion might be offset some.
Meh,
Loney
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Sales - CDRD |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.11 23:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lonely
Stuff
The way you wave your e-peen... I had to fix your name for you.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes
Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves;
Aptitude and intellect are needless here;
'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
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Margraves
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Lonely
Stuff
The way you wave your e-peen... I had to fix your name for you.
QFT
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Ronbo Prime
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Posted - 2011.04.12 08:07:00 -
[22]
High Sec POS are invaluable! and kinda hard to put in. They really are limited to research tho, and if you view it from that standpoint, then yer always good. Mine is a medium setup, with 6 labs, works GREAT. Tax fuels it, with a bit of an infusion from PI. The research being gained is simply far more valuable than the resources it takes to sustain the operation.
At the same time, the POS can be all but unanchored.
So my final say is this...
start yer POS up, get it in high sec. If it becomes a burden, power it down(not unanchor!), and wait until you have the infrastructure to support the operation. Granted pay outs are hard to notice... until you make say... 75 caracals at 25 ME...
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