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Ak'athra J'ador
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Posted - 2005.02.06 17:15:00 -
[1]
Today, i was reading through all the old forums about how cruisers used to dominate the vast universe of eve and battleships were the scary, rare ship that used to scare the hell out of everyone.. in the present it seems that everyone has a battleship because so much isk can be made in such a short time, like mining for a day can get you enough to make a battleship.. hence many pvp situations often only involve lots of bs, and maybe a frig, cutting out the middleman ships and making proper fleet combat less realistic i guess..
Then i realised that a frigate takes about 4 hours to build and a battleship takes less than a day to build (not entirely sure of the correct times). So an idea i guess to make battleships fewer in number and more of a flagship rather than the main attack force of a fleet would be to increase the build time?
Also, whats interesting is if you do lose your battleship, youre free to buy another one, and insure it for the same quote heh. Even though all your crew died last time (you with the only escape pod) the new crew are more than willing to serve and die for you again and again.. (minnie slaves probly :p)
Perhaps if in the build costs involved adding crew to your ship as well, a frigate requiring none, a cruiser requiring 10 and a battleship 100 or so.. Im unsure how you would obtain the crew as you certainly couldnt mine for them, but its just an idea..
Is there anyone who thinks the same that combat nowadays is a little samey all the time "bs vs bs vs bs vs bs vs bs"...?
meh, anyways, hope thats readable, and its just an idea, im sure others have difrent ones 
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Marnix
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Posted - 2005.02.06 17:21:00 -
[2]
First, ships don't have a crew. You're the only one piloting that ship. Second, it doesnt take 4 hours to build a frigate. It takes roughly 4 hours to build a battleship!
I agree though, something's wrong there. But changing it will lead to alot of people stockpiling battleships right before the patch thatll change it.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:04:00 -
[3]
yep that's why CCP already announced Dreadnaughts to be what they wanted BS's to be in the first place: rare, expensive and something that would turn the tide in a fleet battle
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
sableye
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:06:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Marnix
First, ships don't have a crew. .
they do have a crew you can do many thinsg from your pod you can't do everything this was confirmed by a dev last time that your ship still needs crew it just needs less, I like to think everytime a ship goes boom that the crew escape in escape pods that are to small for our scanenrs to pick up.
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:12:00 -
[5]
It got messed up that everyone has a battleship, although it's not all bad, I doubt I'd still be here if we were all flying cruisers. I'm hoping dreadnaughts fix the mistakes.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marnix
First, ships don't have a crew. You're the only one piloting that ship.
You are wrong. Capsule technology makes it possible to vastly reduce the crew, but only frigates have no crew. Most BS have hundreds of crew members.
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Heihatchi
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:30:00 -
[7]
indeed
_____ (\_/)
(> <) (X.x) This is Headless Bunny. Copy Headless Bunny into your signature to help prevent his attempt at world domination. |
Cairhien
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Posted - 2005.02.06 18:40:00 -
[8]
Of course they have a crew, who will bring you your coffee and make lunch.
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Apavarus Kan
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Posted - 2005.02.06 19:26:00 -
[9]
Nonesense, ships don't have a crew. Pod Pilots are small deformed stunted things floating foetally inside the amniotic fluid of their pods, with electrodes connecting their lower brain functions to the ships automatics. You may think that you are star-striding galactic warriors, but in fact you are your pod.
There's obviously no crew, since any human crew would mutiny at all the pointless, stupid and frankly suicidal things that their captains make them do.
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Ak'athra J'ador
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Posted - 2005.02.06 19:34:00 -
[10]
i guess with hindsight ccp wish they had introduced battlecruisers and destroyers before battleships.. and im unsure how they will make dreadnaughts rare and such, as many eve players atm have the isk to buy tonnes of battleships, let alone one dreadnaught..
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FoulBeast
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Posted - 2005.02.06 20:02:00 -
[11]
Though maybe that's the point if you can only afford ONE dreadnaught then you are gonna be very carfull with it and they will be rare in PvP, I don't make a lot of isk but BS are easy to get and you don't worry about losing one so much. Personally, maybe the insurance companies won't insure them as there so expensive and there only point is to be in battle and to much a risk for them.
Who knows
No rest for the wicked. [Custom Made Sigs' - Eve mail FoulBeast] |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.02.06 20:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Apavarus Kan
Nonesense, ships don't have a crew. Pod Pilots are small deformed stunted things floating foetally inside the amniotic fluid of their pods, with electrodes connecting their lower brain functions to the ships automatics. You may think that you are star-striding galactic warriors, but in fact you are your pod.
There's obviously no crew, since any human crew would mutiny at all the pointless, stupid and frankly suicidal things that their captains make them do.
No, ships have crews. Old blueprint images on the site actually gve the numbers of crew needed to run a ship.
The pilot isn't a malformed stunted thing, he's more then capable of leaving his pod and would frequently do so.
I suggest reading the new 2 short stories, they have proof
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Kashre
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Posted - 2005.02.06 21:11:00 -
[13]
I dont mind that everyone and their mother has a battleship, and I wont mind if everyone and their mother has a dreadnaught. The larger T2 ships have such high skill reqs that they provide the "uber and rare" factor for the game.
As long as game mechanics leave room in a fleet (large or small) for some frigs and cruisers. We're doing ok in that regard atm I think, but its too easy (imo) to set up a battleship thats good at killing frigates and other battleships. I think that one setup should be exclusive of the other.
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It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Apavarus Kan
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Posted - 2005.02.07 07:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Apavarus Kan on 07/02/2005 07:02:33
Quote:
No, ships have crews. Old blueprint images on the site actually gve the numbers of crew needed to run a ship.
The pilot isn't a malformed stunted thing, he's more then capable of leaving his pod and would frequently do so.
I suggest reading the new 2 short stories, they have proof
Nope, I'm sorry but a couple of bits of fan fiction (good though they are) and a few hoary old blueprints don't convince me. When I can get out of my ship to meet other spacers at the bar, or walk on the green grass of a planet with the wind blowing in my hair, then and only then will I believe that I'm not surgically welded to my pod.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.02.07 07:17:00 -
[15]
Think even a couple frigates have a couple crew, like the bantam and probe.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.02.07 07:59:00 -
[16]
The whole pod thing is kind of a bummer, I would love to be able to hire / fire / jettison crew.
Would be fun, stations need a lounge to recruit crew members.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.02.07 08:24:00 -
[17]
Crew would be fun.
I always kept may hangers full of slaves. "I am still convinced they stole rare mods"
And hundreds of homeless "Whom I kept supplied with alcahol, small arms, holoreels and shuttles."
But they weren't able to do much so I had to sell them for medical research.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
Dau Imperius
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Posted - 2005.02.07 09:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dau Imperius on 07/02/2005 09:38:04
Originally by: Apavarus Kan
Nope, I'm sorry but a couple of bits of fan fiction (good though they are) and a few hoary old blueprints don't convince me. When I can get out of my ship to meet other spacers at the bar, or walk on the green grass of a planet with the wind blowing in my hair, then and only then will I believe that I'm not surgically welded to my pod.
Well then we can all be happy to know you'll have no sex life and won't propegate your *cough* genes onto anyone else.
Leaves more for us. 
(edited for being nicer by myself)
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Apavarus Kan
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Posted - 2005.02.07 10:40:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Well then we can all be happy to know you'll have no sex life and won't propegate your *cough* genes onto anyone else.
True, but my clones will be all over the place.
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Magorath
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Posted - 2005.02.07 11:18:00 -
[20]
And we know what that means. We'd end up like the Jove. 
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Ak'athra J'ador
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Posted - 2005.02.07 12:52:00 -
[21]
anyways, aside from the crew issue being debated whether they exist or not, does anyone think that 4 hours to make a battleship is a bit quick? takes about an hour to make a frig, and a battleship is a bit bigger than 4x the frig...
just tryna figure out why there are so many battleships everywhere heh, maybe its just co everyone wants the biggest ship they can get.. takes 1 player to fly a frig, takes 1 player to fly a battleship i suppose, whats gonna win out of the two? heh...
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Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2005.02.07 14:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Muad 'dib on 07/02/2005 14:42:49
"why does everyone fly a BS?"
Everyone knows why, no one wants it to b changed.
Time to biuld makes little difference, unless its literally days....
It doesnt take long enough to train for, not that i think the skill should be beefed, but more the prerquisits. If it took large weapon of choice skill level 1 (for example) to fly the BS of that race, then we may see more nubs in barges etc in stead of 1 month old chars strait in armas mining away in 1.0.
Everones okay with AF's needing engineering 5 and machanics 5, i dont see why CCP shouldnt beef the req's. Of course the main problem is ppl like this; "boo hoo, ive been mining happily for months in my appoc with only 750k SP, now i cant fly my ship, waaaaaa". But frankly that doesnt bother me, i bought my BATTLEship for battle and so i have the large weapons skills to suit.
Well thats wot i rekon, flame me if you must, adding/expanding a constuctive post would be better 
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'/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.07 14:49:00 -
[23]
Everyone being in this and that isn't really the problem.
Wht is the problem is that ships have no real design roles, with mods and systems specific to them.
So one ships good for this another for that so they are more grp orinated as in RL.
At the moment they are all kinda still very generic, with the natural progression being to the bigger generic hulls.
Things have chnged a little in this regard though overall it's not much or indeed anything radical enough.
Other area of course that kinda 'overlaps' this is the control method and overall how ships fly and move in game compared to others like Darkspace.
And this is probably where Eve doesn't really come upto the plate combat wise.
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Attrezzo Pox
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Posted - 2005.02.07 15:47:00 -
[24]
First of all the way that the game has formed is pretty decent. CCP did a good job of spreading out utility of the three classes of ship when they enabled tracking and appropriate targeting time. THE PLAYERS are responsible for taking ridiculous risks by making whole fleets nothing but Battleships. It would be smart to divide your force up into well organized groups or "gangs" as eve likes to call them. And run fleet tactics that way, however CCP did forget that the players playing this game aren't professional strategiests. And even if they were they don't have the time to sit down and figure out the best way to attack so and so. It's a game and people treat it that way, so what we have now is angry mobs who beat up one person at a time. That's not CCP's fault, that's just the way it is.
Now to add to that:
Originally by: Na'Axin
yep that's why CCP already announced Dreadnaughts to be what they wanted BS's to be in the first place: rare, expensive and something that would turn the tide in a fleet battle
Somewhat right, they'll be rare and expensive, BUT not the deciders in FLEET battles. Make no mistake these bohemoths will have the targeting speed of your grandma without her glasses. What they'll do is make a big fat high value target that players will have to get creative to defend and attack. But one thing it will not do is take out that 20 man fleet single handed. I'm guessing it'll be pretty good at blowing up battleships, but anything smaller will eat it... slowly but surely. The thing is made to take out stations and it'll be enormous. I really doubt it'll be an uber fighting ship. I think they'll leave that job to tech II battleships. |
Mina Evasngeli
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Posted - 2005.02.07 16:15:00 -
[25]
I think the BS vs BSisa very bad thing indeed, it makes less intresting battels...
A great battel would be cruisers, frigates, assult ships, destroyers and such, with a couple of capital ships beeing the proud kings...
but i guess that BS's actually have become the cruisers og Our time, and the Cruisers are the frigates...and the Bc's are the Medium thing inbetween.... (actually i like these powerfull smaller ships alot) maybe the Dreadnought and the Titans will become the True Battelships, The True Rare kings of battel taht you almost proud just to havebeen in battel with
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Judge Fodder
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Posted - 2005.02.07 16:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mina Evasngeli
but i guess that BS's actually have become the cruisers og Our time, and the Cruisers are the frigates...and the Bc's are the Medium thing inbetween....
The BS's have become the cruisers and the intys/assaults have become the frigates. The cruisers and BC's have become cannon fodder.
Oh yes and of course ships have crews, why else would they have windows and lights????
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.02.07 17:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Judge Fodder
Originally by: Mina Evasngeli
but i guess that BS's actually have become the cruisers og Our time, and the Cruisers are the frigates...and the Bc's are the Medium thing inbetween....
The BS's have become the cruisers and the intys/assaults have become the frigates. The cruisers and BC's have become cannon fodder.
..and frigates have become shuttles. Faster, better cargo space and if you get bored along the way you can tickle some gate rats
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(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Moridan
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Posted - 2005.02.07 17:58:00 -
[28]
Well if you've been in a protracted war, bs's do become fairly rare as people have lost tons of money getting ganked in them.
losing one battleship, and requipping another, even with good insurance costs what? 35 mil or so depending on equipment needed. loosing several battleships puts a hurt in most peoples wallets.
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Shadow Knight
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Posted - 2005.02.09 01:22:00 -
[29]
regarding dreadnaughts... i jsut hope they live up to their name :) literally, dread-nought. asin, fear-nothing. These things should be hard to bring down, even with a coordinated fleet. Yeh, they might not be able to hit a cruiser, but it would be ridiculous really if that cruiser had a chance of killing it. of course, that doesnt mean you wouldnt have a few frigates locking the thing down while the rest of your fleet turned up....
Dreadnaughts *must* be the new lords of the battlefield. and equally they must be rare.
I'd also like to suggest a week long building time, and building being done in space, since they're too big to dock at a station... (They can have a shuttle bay, so the pilot can fly to the station in comfort.. oh, and perhaps some sort of lock, to prevent hijacking :)). (Same for Titans, btw). This would lead to, hopefully, massive battles being fought over the half built ships, with the attackers seeking to destroy the ship before it can fight back, or capture the ship yards and build it themselves.
Titans on the other hand, should not have decent guns. Perhaps equal to a current tier one BS. Titans arnt designed for combat, they're designed as a mobile base...
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2005.02.09 01:41:00 -
[30]
You're about 1 year late with this post...
Battleships are cheap and that's how it is.
If you want a flagship then fit mad expensive named items on it
If dreadnaughts will be around the 500 mil price range then all the older experienced fighters will have to sit back for some time to make enough isk.
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We are The Collective. Resistance is futile. |
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