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Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.08.31 22:28:00 - [1] - Quote Each of the four races has their gems and their stinkers. But which would you say has the greatest quantity of good ships, and which would you say has the greatest quantity of bad ships?
Alara IonStorm 3094	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:07:00 - [2] - Quote That is very tough to say. The reason is a good ship in one race is usually a good ship for entirely different reasons then a good ship in another race. I would say Amarr have it the hardest now. Their T1 lineup is in shambles and while the new rebalanced Punisher, Executioner and 4 or so Frigates that are coming are good their Cruisers are still bad. The Harbinger is Amarr's first T1 medium laser capable ship and it is mediocre while the Oracle is their first amazing ship and their battleships while good in fleets are finding use diminished by growing Shield doctrine. At PvE they are EM Heavy which is a big disadvantage. If Cruisers and Battlecruisers are rebalanced as well as the Frigates they should have less to worry about. T2 on the other hand is good Logi wise, EWAR wise and the Frigates aren't bad as well as HAC's. For Caldari they are doing well with the Blaster upgrade. Drakes still good. Rohk / Scorp Fleet Ships. Tengu of course. Then the whole ECM in general. Frigates are in good shape as well as Assault Ships. Minmatars got the Hurricane and the ASB Cyclone, kiting Rupture, strong Frigates all around, HAC's, Logi, Web based EWAR. Look at a class of ships you can pick out a good one. Artillery makes a good all round fleet weapon. Minmatars in good shape. Gallente are getting better. Their main problem is that most times the bench mark of a good Gal ship is can I stuff Shields on to it because Armor is slow as nails. They have a lot of small gang choices, Thorax, Shield Brutix, Myrmidon, Incursus and so on. They have the Talos as well. Their Battleships while not big on fleet material are very dangerous in a small environment especially with null buffs. Drone Amp gave them a good leg up too. The Gallente T2 lineup while not spectacular is solid for small scale warfare. Gallente competes well in small scale warfare but they do not scale up near as well as other races. Amarr's biggest problem their T1 disaster of a lineup will for the most part be flushed out in the next 6-9 months hopefully but they still do have some good early on choices. Armor Vs Shield balancing will help as well. I think soon the question of what race is best will become harder to answer.
Sphit Ker Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 113	Posted - 2012.09.01 01:00:00 - [3] - Quote The two best races right now are Minmatar and Tengu.
Gorn Arming Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 28	Posted - 2012.09.01 01:20:00 - [4] - Quote Sphit Ker wrote: The two best races right now are Minmatar and Tengu. This, plus the Caldari ECM line. If you're a newbie wondering what race to train, the answer is always the same--train Minmatar.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 01:22:00 - [5] - Quote I personally think that Minmatar have it best while Amarr have it worst. Much like how the Rifter, Amarr ships are relics of an older era and are in dire need of updates.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 01:24:00 - [6] - Quote Sphit Ker wrote: The two best races right now are Minmatar and Tengu. Caldari is a close contender for beating out the Minmatar in terms of PvP capability. Not because of any specific strengths like the Minmatar's adaptability, but because of a series of perplexing buffs to their style of fighting.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 310	Posted - 2012.09.01 02:15:00 - [7] - Quote rifter, thrasher, rupture, navy stabber, all three BCs, maelstrom, sleipnir, loki... minmatar hardly has any ships that are NOT awesome. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Dorian Tormak P00N Company 67	Posted - 2012.09.01 02:40:00 - [8] - Quote Sphit Ker wrote: The two best races right now are Minmatar and Tengu. Still on with this bullshit? Grow up Dorian Trollmak. Not trollin'
Red Teufel Blackened Skies The Unthinkables 72	Posted - 2012.09.01 03:00:00 - [9] - Quote gallente are the best admit it!
Hrett Justified Chaos 181	Posted - 2012.09.01 04:24:00 - [10] - Quote Im not a huge expert in Amarr, but they have a lot of ships that I see as good. Punisher and its line, Slicer, Arbitrator, Harbinger, Omen Navy Issue, Zealot, Geddon, Baddon, etc. To the extent that Amarr ships might be seen as sub-par, I think that it is because they lack mids, and shield fits are king right now. Its why Gallente are generally seen as only one step better - because Gallente have slightly more mids. Armor needs a buff, then Amarr (and Gallente) will be better. They have a great weapon system. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
mxzf Blackened Skies 2079	Posted - 2012.09.01 05:18:00 - [11] - Quote Gorn Arming wrote: If you're a newbie wondering what race to train, the answer is always the same--train Minmatar. This is the right answer, but for the wrong reason. The real reason to train Minmatar is that they use all different things anyways. If you're fully trained for Minmatar, cross-training another race is as simple as training up racial ships and lasers/hybrids, because training Minmatar already maxed you out in turret, missile, drones, armor, shield, and speed support skills. So, Min is always a good go-to race to train because everything you train for them (except the racial ship skills for the hulls themselves) will carry over into one or more races when you crosstrain.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 05:23:00 - [12] - Quote Hrett wrote: Im not a huge expert in Amarr, but they have a lot of ships that I see as good. Punisher and its line, Slicer, Arbitrator, Harbinger, Omen Navy Issue, Zealot, Geddon, Baddon, etc. To the extent that Amarr ships might be seen as sub-par, I think that it is because they lack mids, and shield fits are king right now. Its why Gallente are generally seen as only one step better - because Gallente have slightly more mids. Armor needs a buff, then Amarr (and Gallente) will be better. They have a great weapon system. I was about to say that I thought the Arbitrator was one of the best cruisers I've ever flown, but it's been a while since I've flown it so it might have been nerfed since then. So I couldn't speak on it.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 05:25:00 - [13] - Quote mxzf wrote: Gorn Arming wrote: If you're a newbie wondering what race to train, the answer is always the same--train Minmatar. This is the right answer, but for the wrong reason. The real reason to train Minmatar is that they use all different things anyways. If you're fully trained for Minmatar, cross-training another race is as simple as training up racial ships and lasers/hybrids, because training Minmatar already maxed you out in turret, missile, drones, armor, shield, and speed support skills. So, Min is always a good go-to race to train because everything you train for them (except the racial ship skills for the hulls themselves) will carry over into one or more races when you crosstrain. And Controlled Bursts. ... Well someone had to say it!
Riot Girl State War Academy Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.09.01 07:00:00 - [14] - Quote Minmatar receives bonuses to all damage types, other races only receive bonuses to one or two.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 07:52:00 - [15] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Minmatar receives bonuses to all damage types, other races only receive bonuses to one or two. Raw damage and optimal range suffer though. But what you listed is still a big upside.
Gabrielle Lamb Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2012.09.01 08:13:00 - [16] - Quote Minmatar overall, but it takes a long time to really train yourself up to a GOOD PVE ship then. PVP you can do with them from day 1 though
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 58	Posted - 2012.09.01 08:14:00 - [17] - Quote It is purely based on playing stlye. Low sec doing hit and runs, fleet warfare, Running L4's, incursions, WH, Industry Defense, High sec war, Jack of all trades. You will find different races are more successful at different aspects. Naming off one group as having the most awsome ships is a sign of a new player. Eve has been around a long time now ccp knows more then you. They have done a real good job at balancing. Being around since 2003 has that effect on a game. If you happen to see one race as the best: It is due to that ship matching your stlye of play.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 83	Posted - 2012.09.01 08:17:00 - [18] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: It is purely based on playing stlye. Low sec doing hit and runs, fleet warfare, Running L4's, incursions, WH, Industry Defense, High sec war, Jack of all trades. You will find different races are more successful at different aspects. Naming off one group as having the most awsome ships is a sign of a new player. Eve has been around a long time now ccp knows more then you. They have done a real good job at balancing. Being around since 2003 has that effect on a game. If you happen to see one race as the best: It is due to that ship matching your stlye of play. Before posting this thread, I thought to myself "Maybe I should specify a certain gameplay style so no one gets confused." The I thought "No way, I put 'in general' in the thread title. EVE players wouldn't be too stupid to miss that, would they?" ....
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 1130	Posted - 2012.09.01 08:49:00 - [19] - Quote I do agree with Ireland, the answers are always tainted with the replier's personal experience and playing field. I think that races in general all have about as many "good" ships, when you consider the whole range from noobships to titans, and all their various applications. Each race has "the best" or FOTM ships in some role. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 689	Posted - 2012.09.01 12:32:00 - [20] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Each of the four races has their gems and their stinkers. But which would you say has the greatest quantity of good ships, and which would you say has the greatest quantity of bad ships? 1st best Minmatar without a doubt, you've got absolutely every tool you need to achieve everything in the game. People also say "Tengu", well they haven't realised yet Loki IS the Tengu natural predator, it literally murders them easily. (when you know how) Last: Gallente, because the horrible combo armor/active or buffer tanking/blasters/horrible rails +lol drones makes them no good but in very specific situations. Being a Gallente dedicated pilot means you pushed your skills to the last standing SP required to make your ship work, even then you're a very easy prey if your opponent knows your ship stats. They've got a little better after hybrids rebalance, then Talos came out and it's probably the best Gallente ship when SHIELD TANKED. Over all Gallente dedicated pilots don't have much of a choice of what they can do but they have a very long list of what they can't or shouldn't even try. But I'm sure some dedicated uber pilot will tell I'm wrong and start with "Proteus" or Serpentis ships (Not gallente). And of course if you're an Elite Gallente pilot you also shield tank your ships because this is how they were intended to work actually. Gallente simple: Dev's ideas/solutions and Gallente philosophy don't exist. It's some kind of "meli-melo" strapped together with duc tape leading to lol'ish stuff, no real activity radius, racial philosophy or even place in the current game outside this tiny "niche" some require being Elite one. brb
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 689	Posted - 2012.09.01 12:41:00 - [21] - Quote Roime wrote: I do agree with Ireland, the answers are always tainted with the replier's personal experience and playing field. I think that races in general all have about as many "good" ships, when you consider the whole range from noobships to titans, and all their various applications. Each race has "the best" or FOTM ships in some role. I think you can agree with me on the fact the game is not exclusively null sec doctrines, nor WH's with dedicated bonus to armor ships making at some point Proteus being excellent in that specific area of the game. On paper Gallente can absolutely deal with every single race in the game with their specific racial traits, in game we all know this is not true. I'm probably amongst the players for a couple years now, who jump on each Gallente dev thread trying to put on the table difficulties gallente pilots have and still have the feeling the very first Gallente issues are not taken in consideration but just somewhat "covered" with fake bonuses and tools that still make them not the first choice you will do if you can fly all races like me, and I'm at first a very specialised gallente pilot before I realised I could have more fun if I trained other races so I wouldn't be stuck in a single restrictive game play/area of the game. brb
Last Wolf Umbra Wing 1	Posted - 2012.09.01 12:47:00 - [22] - Quote so weird. it seems like not that long ago people were saying LOL minmatar and NERF amarr. gal has sucked for like 6 years. ever since the HP buffs and the switch from solo/small gang to mega fleets. caldari has alwAys been pretty balanced though they aRe ccurrently better at pvp than they have ever been.
Kuehnelt Devoid Privateering 267	Posted - 2012.09.01 12:48:00 - [23] - Quote Last Wolf wrote: so weird. it seems like not that long ago people were saying LOL minmatar and NERF amarr. Well over four years ago. The situation you describe lasted for maybe a year.
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 1131	Posted - 2012.09.01 13:06:00 - [24] - Quote Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: Roime wrote: I do agree with Ireland, the answers are always tainted with the replier's personal experience and playing field. I think that races in general all have about as many "good" ships, when you consider the whole range from noobships to titans, and all their various applications. Each race has "the best" or FOTM ships in some role. I think you can agree with me on the fact the game is not exclusively null sec doctrines, nor WH's with dedicated bonus to armor ships making at some point Proteus being excellent in that specific area of the game. On paper Gallente can absolutely deal with every single race in the game with their specific racial traits, in game we all know this is not true. I'm probably amongst the players for a couple years now, who jump on each Gallente dev thread trying to put on the table difficulties gallente pilots have and still have the feeling the very first Gallente issues are not taken in consideration but just somewhat "covered" with fake bonuses and tools that still make them not the first choice you will do if you can fly all races like me, and I'm at first a very specialised gallente pilot before I realised I could have more fun if I trained other races so I wouldn't be stuck in a single restrictive game play/area of the game. I can't say that I agree really. Of course Gallente has issues, but so do other races. I could have crosstrained already, if success in pvp was really a matter of race. It's not, among my numerous losses, there is not a single one that would be direct result of flying Gallente. This applies to all races, you don't win because :Minmatar:, you win because you fly a ship suitable for the task, and succeed in manipulating the battlefield circumstances to favour your strengths. Or lose because you are bad, let your weaknesses be exploited. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman
Maeltstome Caldari Deep Space Ventures Intrepid Crossing 60	Posted - 2012.09.01 13:32:00 - [25] - Quote Gorn Arming wrote: Sphit Ker wrote: The two best races right now are Minmatar and Tengu. This, plus the Caldari ECM line. If you're a newbie wondering what race to train, the answer is always the same--train Minmatar. "Welcome to Eve. Please Choose Difficulty: Easy Medium Hard Minmatar" Scrubs seem to forget so quickly.
Takeshi Yamato Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 420	Posted - 2012.09.01 13:46:00 - [26] - Quote Maeltstome wrote: "Welcome to Eve. Please Choose Difficulty: Easy Medium Hard Minmatar" Scrubs seem to forget so quickly. This belief comes from way back when Minmatar was actually the underdog and had to work to get a kill. Minmatar hasn't been hard to fly for a long time now. They're the easiest ships to solo in without a doubt. Drakes & Tengus online: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1208/fbaugust.jpg
Dorian Tormak P00N Company 68	Posted - 2012.09.01 14:21:00 - [27] - Quote You forget that the Rifter is a pile of garbage now, and I'm talking about it's performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a bad Minmatar nut-hugger. Dorian Trollmak. Not trollin'
Noisrevbus 216	Posted - 2012.09.02 01:01:00 - [28] - Quote Generalisations rarely say much more than preference, but here's how i would put it. Minmatar: most even, with a high general performance. Amarr: quite even while slightly tipped toward larger ships and scales (BS and up). Caldari: most spiky, some very popular notable ships but also many broken whole classes. Gallente: some dips, tipped toward smaller ships and scales, most misunderstood.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 2032	Posted - 2012.09.02 04:20:00 - [29] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Each of the four races has their gems and their stinkers. But which would you say has the greatest quantity of good ships, and which would you say has the greatest quantity of bad ships? Hmmmmm... ships that I really like (I make no claims for this list to represent everyone or be complete): Amarr - Executioner - Punisher - Tormentor - Slicer - Coercer - Arbitrator - Omen Navy - Guardian - Zealot - Curse - Harbinger - Oracle - Armageddon - Abaddon - Archon - Revelation Caldari: - Condor - Merlin - Griffin - Hookbill - Kitsune - Harpy - Hawk - Manticore - Blackbird - Moa - Caracal - Ferox - Drake - Scorpion - Raven - Tengu Minmatar: - Jaguar - Stiletto - Thrasher - Sabre - Rupture - Stabber Fleet - Vagabond - Cyclone - Hurricane - Sleipnir - Tornado Gallente: - Atron - Incursus - Comet - Taranis - Ishkur - Ares - Thorax - Ishtar - Arazu - Myrmidon - Talos The ships I actually fly are almost always Caldari, Amarr, or Gallente. I can't even tell you how much Minmatar loot I've collected and have never bothered to put on a ship. And really, I think people dramatically underestimate how powerful lasers are with today's shield superiority. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Jack Miton Bite Me inc Elysian Empire 532	Posted - 2012.09.02 07:05:00 - [30] - Quote i honestly have no idea how anyone can say amarr are the worst... their BSs are the best bar none, harb is great, they have excellent T2 ships in every category (including the only useable black ops) and have the best carrier and top of the line dread. amarr have weak frigs/cruisers but the punisher and arbitrator are far from terrible. amarr heavy faction/pirate ships are the best around. caldari have weak cruisers, no HACs to speak of, mediocre BSs, a useless dread and gurista ships are junk. gallente have a good lineup overall but require a play style most people dont like. their command ships are lacking. minmatar have a great lineup but it lacks the focus of the other races. their caps are the worst overall by a fair stretch.

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