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Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.16 19:51:00 - [1] Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:35 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:16 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:51:43 Not me - I've been playing ages. A friend of mine just started the game a few days ago and after getting through the tutorial (slowly), bought his first rifter and started to collect the parts. The first moments of most MMOs are quite dull but Eve is particularly slow when you start. Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. Having spoken to the guy that killed him (who's answer was "haha noob", or something similar), he quit and uninstalled. He's quite a patient guy who is happy to sit there for hours analysing tactics on games, however, in his own words, his first experience of Eve was clicking and flying, followed by losing all that work. I've explained to him that part of the appeal of Eve is that it's a hugely risky, slow paced game in which everything you do should be seen as part of a long term investment as opposed to instant gratification, that said, he has a point...His first and only 6 hours of the game were miserable. Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts?
Pesky LaRue Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.04.16 19:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Conura Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:35 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:16 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:51:43 Not me - I've been playing ages. A friend of mine just started the game a few days ago and after getting through the tutorial (slowly), bought his first rifter and started to collect the parts. The first moments of most MMOs are quite dull but Eve is particularly slow when you start. Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. Having spoken to the guy that killed him (who's answer was "haha noob", or something similar), he quit and uninstalled. He's quite a patient guy who is happy to sit there for hours analysing tactics on games, however, in his own words, his first experience of Eve was clicking and flying, followed by losing all that work. I've explained to him that part of the appeal of Eve is that it's a hugely risky, slow paced game in which everything you do should be seen as part of a long term investment as opposed to instant gratification, that said, he has a point...His first and only 6 hours of the game were miserable. Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? so, others may disagree but if this incident caused him to quit, he would have quit somewhere down the line anyway so this may have just saved time/effort/frustration. Also, not to "hahah noob" him again, but he actively clicked away a warning box telling him he was entering 0.4 space and could well lose his ship - if he's not going to read warnings that pop up, it's hard to have sympathy for him, y'know? .
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.16 19:57:00 - [3] There is a big ol warning popup that comes up when you're about to jump into lowsec, saying you are not protected in there. He had to click that to get in there. IF he can't understand a giant warning sign, that's his problem. There's no need to completely overhaul the game because he was dumb.
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:03:00 - [4] Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 20:04:17 Hi, I think he was alt tabbed out. Please try to remember that whilst we all know the rules, for a new player they don't. They are ignorant of it all and probably feel safe when tabbed out...That's a result of games like WoW etc which create a feeling of safety in the early game. I understand that we don't want the typical WoWer here (Though I wouldnt mind a few more in Jita as they're always ease to make a profit off), but I should imagine a large number of players that come to the game have prior MMO experience. The game is growing steadily and improving all the time so I am far from trying to be overreactive and claim it's going to die if it doesn't change - we all know it won't. I just wish the early game was a bit more...Focused and safe, so I could get a few more of my IRL friends playing. Oh, also...If autopilot is running will it shut off if the warning isn't clicked or will it just head in regardless?
Christine Peeveepeeski Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:10:00 - [5] Well yes AP would have just flwon through but that means he'd have to change his AP settings to 'shortest route' or 'prefer low sec'. Both of which would pop up nice big red systems in his waypoint route.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:11:00 - [6] haha noob. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:11:00 - [7] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 16/04/2011 20:13:54 Originally by: Conura Oh, also...If autopilot is running will it shut off if the warning isn't clicked or will it just head in regardless? It stops you from jumping in I think. But I agree the game needs some thinking through.But knowing how and where to improve it isn't an easy task. I too have tried to bring many friends in from a group I used to play bf with for years.None of around 40 guys could be bothered with it. Edit:And like 4 of those 40 even tried it and quit in two weeks.
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:14:00 - [8] Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 20:14:38 It's a real shame as I know my friends would enjoy it if they got into it. It's a shame that when I say "Just stick with it!! After 2 months of training you'll love it!" just doesn't cut it...It's not that the game is too complex for them - One is a huge fan of the DCS titles which make Eve look like a cheap plastic toy in in comparison...It's something else, though I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps a little more dynamism in the missions or another way of keeping new players hooked..Still CCP know more than me and the game is steadily growing so I can't really complain.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:21:00 - [9] Originally by: HeIIfire11 It stops you from jumping in I think. Yes, it does. You sit on the gate until you click yes or no. And OP, this game isn't designed to be for everyone. In fact, it might be said it's not designed for most. There are plenty of MMOs out there that cater to the young player, that make you jump through hoops to get to "hard" mode. This is NOT one of those. And as one poster said, the fact that he uninstalled after getting one ship detonated most likely saved him serious pain down the road. Don't give up on him, though.. sometimes it takes one or two false starts to get the love for this game.
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:22:00 - [10] Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:24:00 - [11] I think its the single player content thats needs to be fixed.The tutorial pretty much throws you into missioning and thats ok because it took me like two weeks just to figure out what everything did or what I even wanted to do. After people get thrown into missioning they notice that they keep repeating and don't bring in much to buy all the new stuff they are seeing.They then see the prices on things and compare it to what they earn lol.It looks like ages away.Then the tough ones bite down and start grinding but sooner or later get killed by a player and everythings gone.The ones who get back up and keep going are made for eve.The rest will quit. Bottom line..give them better pve to keep em hooked until they know what they are doing.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2011.04.16 21:17:00 - [12] "collecting the parts" is one place your friend may have made a mistake. I would pay a bit more and get a full fit in a trade hub like jita. going into low sec. can get anyone killed. no shame getting blown up there. The trick is to think of your ship as "gone" when you undock. do not get too attached. I try to buy two ships for every one I loose. that way I get stronger with each loss and get two more chance to enjoy a particular fitting/ship combination. you can get unlucky and having a backup ready to go makes it easier to shrug of inevitable losses. making changes to the "start of the game" is a can-o-worms. under such a system there would still be some point where you would go from "protected" to "not protected." I would tell any new player to plan ahead. expect losses and the steepest learning curve of any game ever designed. Also, stuff have I can have?
Tellok Eggz Enterprises	Posted - 2011.04.16 21:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Conura Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:35 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:16 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:51:43 Not me - I've been playing ages. A friend of mine just started the game a few days ago and after getting through the tutorial (slowly), bought his first rifter and started to collect the parts. The first moments of most MMOs are quite dull but Eve is particularly slow when you start. Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. Having spoken to the guy that killed him (who's answer was "haha noob", or something similar), he quit and uninstalled. He's quite a patient guy who is happy to sit there for hours analysing tactics on games, however, in his own words, his first experience of Eve was clicking and flying, followed by losing all that work. I've explained to him that part of the appeal of Eve is that it's a hugely risky, slow paced game in which everything you do should be seen as part of a long term investment as opposed to instant gratification, that said, he has a point...His first and only 6 hours of the game were miserable. Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? Absolutley not, eve does not need another health and safty warning akin to packets of peanuts stating warning contains nuts. please keep the stupid away thats what the free mmo's are for.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.16 22:24:00 - [14] Honestly? If you wanted your friend to have a good time, you should've taken him under your wing. You shoulda been round at his place with your laptop, flying together and answering any questions as you went along. He could have bypassed all those scum tutorial missions, gotten to fly with someone more experienced and learn the ropes. He would've made more money and he wouldn't have gone into lowsec. tl;dr: Your fault, take better care of your nublicious mates ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.16 22:52:00 - [15] Edited by: J Kunjeh on 16/04/2011 22:52:54 I think mentoring him more could have helped, but also running all of the tutorial missions FIRST before anything else would have been a good idea. And yeah, the warning is pretty clear about low-sec; when I was a new pilot I knew full well that going into low-sec would likely get me podded (because of things I'd read outside of the game, sure, but also reinforced by the pop-up). I hope you're able to get him to give it another go, show him some of the ropes, fly with him for a while. Also, point him to a guide like ISK The Guide 3.0 available free online as a PDF. Or maybe point him to E-Uni's online Eve Wiki...it's a great resource for new players. Most of all, he needs to understand that nothing in Eve comes easy and it takes real patience and hard work to succeed. It's a harsh world out there. ~Gnosis~
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.04.16 22:58:00 - [16] To make this game more (new)player friendly corporation interface needs complete overhaul. Corporations should be places where anyone could be recruited and given some kind of interesting role from the day 1. Nowdays it is impossible for ceo to configure corporations properly as there just isn't enough options or they are too limited. People either got no access or way too much access. Corp thefts/sabotage should only occur if someone gives someone too much access. Not because configuration options have so much limitations and holes in them. ...just my 50 cents. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.04.17 04:43:00 - [17] The major problem I see here is he didn't do the starter profession missions. If I remember right these provide a free rifter during their course (and several other ships). However if he gave up so easily as someone above said it is probably better for him not to invest the time and energy and later lose the 2 billion isk ship he sank everything into.
Henry Haphorn Gallente Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.04.17 05:13:00 - [18] I actually advised my RL friends to not try Eve Online for now. Not that I don't like it. In fact, I love Eve. The problem is that Eve is undergoing so much radical changes in such a short timespan that I felt that now was simply not the time for them to join. If they did join now, they would've complained about a lot of things that CCP is trying to fix right now. Of course, once Incarna comes out this summer and after a few updates that come after, I will then start having my RL friends come over and try it out.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.04.17 05:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Conura Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. So he clicks through the warning dialog box and we are supposed to pity the fool after the warning was validated? ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Leetha Layne	Posted - 2011.04.17 05:33:00 - [20] You won't AP jump into .4 without clicking the okay box. So this alt-tab thing is false. If he was warned and clikced anyway and got podded it's his fault not the game's. Game is fine in this regard. Weeds out the fools.
Sharon Anne Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.17 05:49:00 - [21] Accounts less than one week should not be able to leave 1.0 sec space till they complete a noob skill n training lesson. Accounts can't leave high sec until after the 2nd week. Accounts should display a nanny note. during the 1st month, when undocking from a station asking if your clone is up to date and remember today is a good day to die. *The general epidemic of rectal-cranial inversion*
Hroya	Posted - 2011.04.17 06:16:00 - [22] Edited by: Hroya on 17/04/2011 06:17:54 Encounters have two options, eihter you like them or you dont. He chose to not like them and instead of narrowing his options down to suit his intentions, he just left. It's a choice. It could have gone the other way. Could be something like " Man they blew me up so fast it was awesome, i want to do such things too, it rocks" and off he goes to train pew pew and wreck havoc to anyone he encounters. He just needs to give it some more time to check out what exactly it is he wants to do and to what extent he wants to box in his playstyle. In eve nothing is forever so might aswell prepare for changes anytime, any day.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.04.17 06:24:00 - [23] I'm pretty sure ap will just blindly jump into lowsec... did they change it at some point? of course if you manually try to jump into lowsec you get a warning.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.04.17 06:57:00 - [24] lol. noob ---------------------------------------- Looking for a good system, or area, to AFK Cloak. PM me with infos, or if you want a partner to be AFK with.
FlameGlow Gypsy Band	Posted - 2011.04.17 07:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I'm pretty sure ap will just blindly jump into lowsec... did they change it at some point? of course if you manually try to jump into lowsec you get a warning. nope, AP will still happily jump you into lowsec without prompt but the default setting is to prefer safer route so it's rather hard to get into lowsec unless specifically going there Originally by: CCP Manifest Imploding servers are not a part of our business model.
Kristina Vanszar Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.17 07:51:00 - [26] That's hwo it see this, the biggest problems with eve is: 1. new players are new, they do not know about the conflicts and the complexity of eve we as the actual players have created in it, for a new player it's just like every other MMO, get mission, fly there, shoot go back, repeat, just a lot slower then they're used in other MMO's. 2. new players are not used to the type of game, eve is, eve has no shiney, 20+ Szed letter which say lvl up, with some effect, so for them there is no real "i'm stronger" moment 3. the complexity of fitting, ships, ammo, weapons, resists, tanking, market, industry, standings and so on, is just to much to understand it all in the first month, so they do not see the whole picture of it. 4. new player have no real benefit from the "one server, one universe" as a new player you do not really know that the big guys want you, you're imagination is: wow there are people in titans, what could i do to them, then they run missions a bit or do some mining and quit. 5. They do not know how to find a player corp, and what benefits player corps give. so they stick in NPC corps until: 5.a. some guy from a player corp invites them and show them the benefits or 5.b. they quit 6. We as the big guys fail to show them the beuty, we should constantly search, and fight for every noob in this damn game, becouse they are our future 7. The money problem, in the first few weeks they run lvl 1 missions or do mining in crusers, industrials, firgates, destroyers, so they do not really make money, when they then see, the next ship they want is 30 Mil, they realise that's 2 Months of work, it just takes to long. Just from a personal perspective: if some guy at a belt, hadn't invited me to his corp and offered me 2 Million ISK so i can buy me a new ship, i would've quit. Becouse at this moment, 2 Million ISK were a HUGE amount of money for me. I just didn't knew that you are buying modules of 2 Million ISK after a few months, no one told me, no one showed me. o7
The Old Chap	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:09:00 - [27] Your friend could have sought help from my friend and all the other helpful friends who post on these forums.
vulnevia The Exploited.	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported!
El Puerco Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:22:00 - [29] Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported! report why? ...
dischordia Gallente wiggle Tech.	Posted - 2011.04.17 10:32:00 - [30] Originally by: El Puerco Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported! report why? Read Section 2 subsection a. Quote: You may not share your Account with anyone, or allow anyone other than you personally (or your minor child, if you have registered an Account on behalf of your minor child) to access or use your Account. Joint or shared ownership or use of an Account by more than one user is prohibited. to quote a insurance advert "simples"
Astenion Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:01:00 - [31] I didn't need a mentor because I wasn't a drooling idiot when I started to play the game. I also don't have ADD and understand that patience and thinking things through pays off in the end. It all comes down to young people today don't want to work for ANYTHING, even in a virtual world. They want everything handed to them and made easy because using your brain is just too much trouble. Jesus fcking Christ, it's a fcking video game, people. Eve REALLY isn't that hard. The problem people have with it boils down to the fact that they're ADD-riddled lemmings who can't pay attention for more than 5 seconds at a time, so they die and then uninstall and go whine about how hard Eve is on WoW forums. Imagine what they would think about old NES games like Metroid and Blaster Master...those games required hours of patience. The simple answer is people today are lazy with the attention span of squirrel. Eve Online is not nuclear physics; all you have to do is listen, pay attention, and heed the advice of others. If that's too much for people, then they should GTFO of my game.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Conura Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? I was in school when I played Elite (the spiritual precursor to EVE), not in kindergarten, but young enough to understand basic risks - don't screw around in pirate heavy systems and master the docking sequence. The former was straightforward, and for the latter I knew if I screwed up the docking, which required you to manually align your ship to the station spin, I'll lose the ship AND the valuable cargo I'm carrying. All that work, up in smoke! Now, you're basically implying, in the year 2011, you need to allow for babies to play? While I can certainly sympathize and understand the importance of making sure new players are well taken care off (at least for their first 30-days), making SILLY allowances because one is afraid they might not like EVE and leave, is not the right move. If the warnings were ignored, then re-design them (within reasons). If they are still ignored, then you have no one to blame but yourself. The tutorials have come a long way since Trinity, I've no doubt there may still be some more room for improvements. However, babysitting new players to the extreme in terms of making the "immune" to certain things will be setting the wrong expectations and giving the wrong impressions to these new players (not to mention the gameplay loopholes it'll create). That is not EVE.
vulnevia The Exploited.	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:13:00 - [33] Originally by: El Puerco Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported! report why? Uh, you do know that it's against the EULA to share accounts?
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:50:00 - [34] Edited by: Conura on 17/04/2011 11:50:56 Originally by: Astenion I didn't need a mentor because I wasn't a drooling idiot when I started to play the game. I also don't have ADD and understand that patience and thinking things through pays off in the end. It all comes down to young people today don't want to work for ANYTHING, even in a virtual world. They want everything handed to them and made easy because using your brain is just too much trouble. Jesus fcking Christ, it's a fcking video game, people. Eve REALLY isn't that hard. The problem people have with it boils down to the fact that they're ADD-riddled lemmings who can't pay attention for more than 5 seconds at a time, so they die and then uninstall and go whine about how hard Eve is on WoW forums. Imagine what they would think about old NES games like Metroid and Blaster Master...those games required hours of patience. The simple answer is people today are lazy with the attention span of squirrel. Eve Online is not nuclear physics; all you have to do is listen, pay attention, and heed the advice of others. If that's too much for people, then they should GTFO of my game. Entirely disagree; as I said, this particular friend is a huge fan of the DCS series, including all the knowledge, mental mathematics and intricate knowledge required to fly it. He is also a doctor in the real world (albeit a trainee as he's in his early 20s). Suffice to say, intellectual capacity and hatred of deferred gratification was not the cause here - it was more that he has little time available and it felt wasted! This is fair enough as it's the nature of the game, but a little more carebear time in the first week would be useful for keeping players.
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.17 11:54:00 - [35] Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: El Puerco Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported! report why? Uh, you do know that it's against the EULA to share accounts? rofl, I bet your boss loves you...
Char'sul Omar Minmatar LazyBoyz Band of Recreational Flyers	Posted - 2011.04.17 12:09:00 - [36] Meh. I remember my first days in EVE, back in 2006. While it's true the tutorial doesn't tell you everything(especially back then), it does get you started on basic manoevering your ship and the basic rules of combat. realizing full well the scale of this game it got me reading the forums and databases, wikis, etc. as well to round out my understanding of this universe. And even thought I didn't make **** for ISK, whenever I saw someone flying something expensive I didn't give up, I just went "Wow nice, how'd he get through the grind?" and searched for better and faster ways to make ISK. My point is, when you start this game you should be (or aspire to be) the person that doesn't ragequit because everyone around him has better stuffs, but instead thinks "Well if they managed it, why not me?" and starts looking for (or inventing) better ways to get where he wants to be. Circumventing the grind in inventive ways > Drudging along the beaten path
Sidrat Flush Caldari Vannbros Shipyards	Posted - 2011.04.17 12:48:00 - [37] Just to reiterate on what others have said and hopefully post more helpful advice. New players NEED to be belt looped to those that bring them in to the game. It's not enough to tell them to do the tutorial and get back to you, you need to go through the tutorial with them, tell them about the skill training mechanic in the first instance if they tutorial doesn't in the first minute or so. This will then tell them about levelling Eve style. Pass them a few million Isk and TAKE A BREAK from running tutorials in order to do a few missions with them. It's complex and scary for them, if it's been a while since you've done the tutorial, create a new character and realise how annoying it all is further the annoyance and realise you have no idea what modules are for or what the undocumented effects are. Or worse spending 25% of your wallet on something you can't yet use doh, all been there. Remind them that they're not going to learn the game in a week, let alone a year but they can have fun when in the game. In the first week or so limit their time to an hour at most so they don't get burned out or to overwhelmed too quickly. Introduce them to other people, corp mates for example that can take them and do other things so they get a true sense of the scope that is Eve. I've introduced a few people to Eve, only one has remained and I believe it comes down to the people he met very early on in the game. Give positive feedback regularly. If they achieve something congratulate them. If they make a mistake be understanding and advise them how to avoid it in the future. (e.g Ignore local in Jita, if someone steals from a jet can in Empire you are under zero obligation to shoot them in their mining/hauling ship). If possible, meet up on the weekend and find out if they're enjoying the game and what they want to concentrate on. Give out links to the 3rd party software out there that can be used to further their Eve Experience. Have fun with the new player as they could end up your CEO/Enemy one day. View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
gfldex	Posted - 2011.04.17 13:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Conura The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? There used to be a time with very little tutorial, if you even want to call it that. There was no eve wiki, no welcome pages. Players where told to join a player corp to learn the ropes. That seamed to have worked better then what we got nowadays. For your friend, well, if he ignores a warning message and is than mad about the game, it might no be the game.
El Puerco Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.04.17 13:13:00 - [39] Edited by: El Puerco on 17/04/2011 13:14:37 Edited by: El Puerco on 17/04/2011 13:13:40 Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: El Puerco Originally by: vulnevia Originally by: Conura Yeah he's got a three week trial so I'm going to keep it training...Will try him again in 48 hours lol So you're gonna use his login and password,, and train his skills? Sweet, reported! report why? Uh, you do know that it's against the EULA to share accounts? but but.. what if the account is a gift then? (edit for having no typing skills al all) ...
Lokaas	Posted - 2011.04.17 13:24:00 - [40] Edited by: Lokaas on 17/04/2011 13:24:56 Nope, I have no sympathy for this guy. Tell him to play for two plus years before he becomes that curmudgeonly. I have a friend that I tried to get into the game and he stayed all of one hour before realizing that the game isn't all fast paced and shoot 'em up=BORING. I do think there ought to be a hop in and shoot fast paced element to the game to give people something immediate to do. Faction War and Incursions is sort of supposed to do that but fails miserably. There could be a sort of instanced battleground mechanic for new player kicks as well as people that don't have something else going on at the time. An idea I've had is to add an element that is similar to a game that I thought EVE was copying and didn't last long due to server issues was Terminus. It was a spaceship simulation style game and I originally thought EVE was a redux of that game. Anyway, the idea is that when a player joins a militia or even better, like Terminus, you actually join the militaries as a cadet and can then move up in rank and here's the best partà you are issued a ship. The type of ship you can get would be dependent upon mission, rank and ship skills but you would be working for the military so it'd make sense that you'd be issued a ship. These ships can not shoot other non-military issued ships and vise-a-versa but it wouldn't matter anyway because you'd just be undocking to an instanced version of the game that would deal solely with an immediate, shooter environment. Fun for all, no compromising the actual EVE environment. Really, how's that any different than the whole walking in stations mechanic?
TravisWB	Posted - 2011.04.17 14:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Conura Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:35 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:16 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:51:43 Not me - I've been playing ages. A friend of mine just started the game a few days ago and after getting through the tutorial (slowly), bought his first rifter and started to collect the parts. The first moments of most MMOs are quite dull but Eve is particularly slow when you start. Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. Having spoken to the guy that killed him (who's answer was "haha noob", or something similar), he quit and uninstalled. He's quite a patient guy who is happy to sit there for hours analysing tactics on games, however, in his own words, his first experience of Eve was clicking and flying, followed by losing all that work. I've explained to him that part of the appeal of Eve is that it's a hugely risky, slow paced game in which everything you do should be seen as part of a long term investment as opposed to instant gratification, that said, he has a point...His first and only 6 hours of the game were miserable. Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHHA! Cough, HAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAAAHAHAHAAHHAAAHAHAHA It is amazing that anyone makes it past the trial period.
vulnevia The Exploited.	Posted - 2011.04.18 08:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Conura rofl, I bet your boss loves you... Not as much as your future cellmates will love you ♥
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.18 09:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Conura Edited by: Conura on 17/04/2011 11:50:56 Entirely disagree; as I said, this particular friend is a huge fan of the DCS series, including all the knowledge, mental mathematics and intricate knowledge required to fly it. He is also a doctor in the real world (albeit a trainee as he's in his early 20s). A supersmart doctor that cant read a warning sign is not so smart. I feel sorry for his future patients.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.04.18 09:36:00 - [44] If your friend can't stand seeing hard work vanish in mere seconds, this is NOT the game for him. In the early days, if you can't put losses behind you and learn valuable lessons with each one, you won't be in this game for long. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
EON Dogma E-ON	Posted - 2011.04.18 10:12:00 - [45] Why not use the ISK Volume 1 guide? The game has been crying out for a manual since its release eight years ago and now it's here! The guide comes in two forms, either a free .pdf download or can be bought as a physical entity from the EVE Store.
Kazacy Caldari Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.	Posted - 2011.04.18 10:15:00 - [46] To the OP: when i started eve in 2006 i was poded in my first day (and in the next days btw) like your friend. I was angry at that moment, but in time i learned that in fact i was lucky. If your friend cannot understand this simple fact (ffs we talk about pixels here), good riddance we don't need him here.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.04.18 10:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Conura Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:35 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:52:16 Edited by: Conura on 16/04/2011 19:51:43 Not me - I've been playing ages. A friend of mine just started the game a few days ago and after getting through the tutorial (slowly), bought his first rifter and started to collect the parts. The first moments of most MMOs are quite dull but Eve is particularly slow when you start. Anyway, long story short, he autopilots into 0.4 (with knowing what it was) and got podded. Having spoken to the guy that killed him (who's answer was "haha noob", or something similar), he quit and uninstalled. He's quite a patient guy who is happy to sit there for hours analysing tactics on games, however, in his own words, his first experience of Eve was clicking and flying, followed by losing all that work. I've explained to him that part of the appeal of Eve is that it's a hugely risky, slow paced game in which everything you do should be seen as part of a long term investment as opposed to instant gratification, that said, he has a point...His first and only 6 hours of the game were miserable. Just to provoke some discussion, do you think the game could make improvements to the start game? Perhaps making new players PVP immune (not able to engage in it, or enter low sec) until changing a menu option so that they can't make mistakes? i don't know...I bet the game loses a lot of players this way - I've tried to get a lot of friends into the game and most of them leave whether it's after a month or a week. It's not that they're not patient, it's that the game fails entirely to support new players through the hefty learning experience...The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? My thoughts are that he should have read the pop up warning that DID appear. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Doddy Excidium.	Posted - 2011.04.18 10:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Feligast There is a big ol warning popup that comes up when you're about to jump into lowsec, saying you are not protected in there. He had to click that to get in there. IF he can't understand a giant warning sign, that's his problem. There's no need to completely overhaul the game because he was dumb. Confirmed, if he is too stupid to read warning messages he would probably have had a very frustrating time in eve anyway.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2011.04.18 10:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Doddy Originally by: Feligast There is a big ol warning popup that comes up when you're about to jump into lowsec, saying you are not protected in there. He had to click that to get in there. IF he can't understand a giant warning sign, that's his problem. There's no need to completely overhaul the game because he was dumb. Confirmed, if he is too stupid to read warning messages he would probably have had a very frustrating time in eve anyway. Agreed. No matter what MMO it is you carefully study any messages when your new. Your friend is a horses ass, buy a new one.
Morphisat Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2011.04.18 11:41:00 - [50] My experience as a new player was just about the same. I got blown up during the intro mission line in low sec. Kinda odd that it send me into low sec. This was more than five years ago though, and I am still here. If you give up Eve after the very first mishap, this game is probably not for you.
Conura Caldari Shinryaku	Posted - 2011.04.18 11:45:00 - [51] Had rather hoped for less random aggression and more intelligent input - I think coming from more complex games, I'm spoilt when it comes to close knit communities. This one seems to be inching closer to a WoW-esque community as of late. Many of you seem to stand by the fact this game requires a high amount of intelligence and anyone from WoW without the "IQ or intellectual capacity" to play should leave..What a load of rubbish, this game is barely more complex than any other MMO and anybody with slightly below average intelligence or above can play it just fine. It's about enticing the player, not hoping they've got the balls to persevere. Thanks to those few that supplied reasonable messages! He's back playing again now and enjoying it, though he, like me, does think that the early game needs to be rethought.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.04.18 12:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Conura He's back playing again now and enjoying it, though he, like me, does think that the early game needs to be rethought. The whole NGE will be redone in Incarna. Also try and act as a mentor this time, it is the best way for him to learn the ropes.
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.18 14:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Conura Had rather hoped for less random aggression and more intelligent input - I think coming from more complex games, I'm spoilt when it comes to close knit communities. This one seems to be inching closer to a WoW-esque community as of late. Stupid questions get stupid answers.
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:12:00 - [54] There is a warning before going into low sec he has to click past....the warnings are not there just for extra things to click.... ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Mashie Saldana The whole NGE will be redone in Incarna. You mean NPE. Right? RIGHT?! -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Originally by: Mashie Saldana The whole NGE will be redone in Incarna. You mean NPE. Right? RIGHT?! Doh!
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:39:00 - [57] And the trolls swarm and take over the thread...as usual. ~Gnosis~
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Pesky LaRue so, others may disagree but if this incident caused him to quit, he would have quit somewhere down the line anyway so this may have just saved time/effort/frustration. Some people just arent equipped to play EVE.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.04.18 15:53:00 - [59] 1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. This rule, if followed, means that no new players should play because they can't afford to lose anything. 2. Don't trust anybody This rule means you can never join a corp, never buy anything on contract, etc etc. In some ways, EvE shoots itself in the foot right off the bat for a new player.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.18 16:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Ana Vyr 1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. This rule, if followed, means that no new players should play because they can't afford to lose anything. Noob ship prices rising? Invest! -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:01:00 - [61] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Conura The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? There used to be a time with very little tutorial, if you even want to call it that. There was no eve wiki, no welcome pages. Players where told to join a player corp to learn the ropes. That seamed to have worked better then what we got nowadays. For your friend, well, if he ignores a warning message and is than mad about the game, it might no be the game. Pretty much this Hell I still have 20-25min of TS recording of this guy (gfldex) teaching my corp the game and telling us basic tactics/fits/strategy circa early 2006, that's how it used to be. Game is much easier for new players these days ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:06:00 - [62] I made a post about something similar to this a loooooooooooooooong time ago. Since then CCP has actually done quite a bit new player wise and I've gotta say I'm pretty happy with the way things are.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:10:00 - [63] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/04/2011 23:12:33 Originally by: Copine Callmeknau Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Conura The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? There used to be a time with very little tutorial, if you even want to call it that. There was no eve wiki, no welcome pages. Players where told to join a player corp to learn the ropes. That seamed to have worked better then what we got nowadays. For your friend, well, if he ignores a warning message and is than mad about the game, it might no be the game. Pretty much this Hell I still have 20-25min of TS recording of this guy (gfldex) teaching my corp the game and telling us basic tactics/fits/strategy circa early 2006, that's how it used to be. Game is much easier for new players these days 20-25 minutes? Thats it? My entry "seminars" for my friends clocked in on average about 3 hours... I find 20-25 minutes to way to short to begin even teaching the bare minimum basics of this game. Originally by: Kazacy To the OP: when i started eve in 2006 i was poded in my first day (and in the next days btw) like your friend. I was angry at that moment, but in time i learned that in fact i was lucky. If your friend cannot understand this simple fact (ffs we talk about pixels here), good riddance we don't need him here. I didn't get podded for about 2 1/2 years after I started character. In fact, the first time I ever got podded (and still the only place I've managed to get podded) was in w-space. Getting podded is probably one of the easiest things to avoid in eve.
Aderata Nonkin Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:29:00 - [64] Edited by: Aderata Nonkin on 18/04/2011 23:30:36 I think your friend is an illiterate idiot who needs to be more careful where he goes. I also think you're not much of a friend if you don't explain the basic concept of the EVE universe. In fact, it makes you an even bigger idiot. æIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Æ
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.18 23:36:00 - [65] Originally by: Sader Rykane Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/04/2011 23:12:33 Originally by: Copine Callmeknau Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Conura The tutorial simply doesn't seem to do enough... What are your thoughts? There used to be a time with very little tutorial, if you even want to call it that. There was no eve wiki, no welcome pages. Players where told to join a player corp to learn the ropes. That seamed to have worked better then what we got nowadays. For your friend, well, if he ignores a warning message and is than mad about the game, it might no be the game. Pretty much this Hell I still have 20-25min of TS recording of this guy (gfldex) teaching my corp the game and telling us basic tactics/fits/strategy circa early 2006, that's how it used to be. Game is much easier for new players these days 20-25 minutes? Thats it? My entry "seminars" for my friends clocked in on average about 3 hours... I find 20-25 minutes to way to short to begin even teaching the bare minimum basics of this game. Welp, I tell a lie. Just hunted em down, apparently it's 5 files of 35min each, of constant talking by a guy with a fairly thick german (or somewhere very near germany) accent :D ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2011.04.19 00:04:00 - [66] Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 19/04/2011 00:05:05 Hilarious, generic and rehashed comments by angry online sociopaths, as always: new player shouldn't complain, he was warned about entering lowsec, new player is stupid because he ignored warnings, new player is skilless and should go back to wow. Many new players just flat out uninstall after such ganks, not because they don't understand gameplay, can't read warnings or are scrubs, they uninstall because they're not interested in a pvp environment where many players use ingame assets not as an end in themselves (amassing riches ships etc, i.e. roleplaying a capsuleer, billionaire god amongst men), but as a means to reap Schadenfreude, hate mails, delicious tears and the most prized of all, make the griefed player unsubscribe. Most fps players would agree that an online fps in which the community actively spends its time spawncamping instead of capturing points and doing objectives, is mostly worthless and undeserving of fresh blood. Now CCP doesn't need much fresh blood, because for every ten new players uninstalling and never subscribing after being ganked, there are a couple who will buy secondary accounts to scout and circumvent gankers' secondary accounts, and there is most probably one who will spend a grand on Plex to buy a well-skilled character. So business is good, while gameplay is not at all good and coddles griefing. Tell your friend, who is educated and apparently a coherent person, that this game will entertain him if he enjoys playing the market or having a gorgeous graphics semi-afk activity (mining). All others areas cater to people who enjoy getting screamed at by strangers, screaming at strangers, masochism, or going all the way to reap Schadenfreude.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2011.04.19 00:12:00 - [67] Originally by: Sader Rykane Getting podded is probably one of the easiest things to avoid in eve. Assuming there are no bubbles. Obviously mitigated by not going to certain areas but that's limiting what aspects of the game you partake in. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link?

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