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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.23 03:15:00 -
[1]
Im trying out the new CQ and understand this is very much beta build for this systems and that WASD is a new thing for ccp in this game.
I however grew up in an era where FPS's where not popular on Console yet and there home was the PC platform.
Anyways back then there where a couple popular control schemes used between the various shooters.
One being that WASD (where WASD didnt control camera) was always relative to the direction the camera is pointing. So if I pan my camera to the left then hit W my character will then walk twoards the camera's forward not the persons forward.
The other option is making A and D control left and right camera, this works great for a system that wouldnt require you to look up or down but in incarna i can see this not being desired by the art team but for some players who are very overly used to the idea of shooters back then can still benifit.
Another thing I've noticed is that you cannot smash W A S D in combination to walk sideways, this makes for awkard movement of the characters navigation (aka resident evil classic, turn then walk methood, how many people you know stop to make a left or right turn mid stride?)
Anyways so far no 'bugs' I havent had time to dabble with the tutorial due to the lack of optimization of the engine though so i look forward to optimizations to make the system work a bit faster so i can really try to break the game then.
The underoptimizing seems tobe tied with the video playing in the main cabin however cannot confirm between pauses or inability to turn off. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.23 03:42:00 -
[2]
Not being able to walk sideways is a good thing. I don't want this game to have FPS-style movement. It would kill any sense of immersion like it does in traditional MMOs.
Anyway, I haven't paid that much attention, but from what I remembered in the few minutes I spent on Duality, moving the camera will make you turn exactly like you'd expect, so I'm not really even sure what you're complaining about.
Also, I don't know where you're getting this A and D being used for turning. If anything it's usually Q and E, but I haven't used the keyboard for turning in an FPS since Doom and Duke Nukem 3D. I've been playing them since Wolfenstein 3D and Catacombs 3D, and back then it was keyboard only and usually the cursor keys were used for movement.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
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Aversun
Caldari Systems Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.23 18:38:00 -
[3]
personally a fast walk would be nice, and i would rather be able to side walk, as its handy in real life An eternity of waiting for 15 seconds of pew-pew satisfaction |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.04.23 19:37:00 -
[4]
Have to agree that the control scheme is odd and rather awkward. It feels like I'm driving a car, and brings back bad memories of the terrible control scheme used in the early Resident Evil games, where your character had a turning radius.
Part of the issue is that the camera focus/pivot point is not the character, but some unidentified area off to the right. This in itself can throw players off, since all other games use the character as the camera focus/pivot.
Another issue is that character movement controls are relative to the camera. So 'W' doesn't make the character move forward; 'W' makes the character walk away from the camera. This is not as much of an issue when the chamera is more or less directly behind the character, but becomes troublesome when the camera is being rotated, or even when it's simply at an odd angle to the character, since the game doesn't seem to recognize WASD keys pressed in combination. For example, I cannot press 'A'+'W' to make the character move diagonally.
CCP should consider making character movement keys move the character in absolute terms, not relative to the camera -- 'W' should make the character always move forward, regardless of where the camera is facing. CCP should also consider changing the camera pivot point to the character's head or thereabouts.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.24 02:38:00 -
[5]
Just the bottom line is
1 Options 2 A bit more realism the resident evil controls are not the way to go. I dont mind the walking I do mind having to stop turn then walk to navigate a corner.
I agree that there should be an absolute control as well where wasd is tied into your character's relavance and not the camera. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Kaiji Nekomono
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alice Katsuko Have to agree that the control scheme is odd and rather awkward. It feels like I'm driving a car, and brings back bad memories of the terrible control scheme used in the early Resident Evil games, where your character had a turning radius.
Part of the issue is that the camera focus/pivot point is not the character, but some unidentified area off to the right. This in itself can throw players off, since all other games use the character as the camera focus/pivot.
Another issue is that character movement controls are relative to the camera. So 'W' doesn't make the character move forward; 'W' makes the character walk away from the camera. This is not as much of an issue when the chamera is more or less directly behind the character, but becomes troublesome when the camera is being rotated, or even when it's simply at an odd angle to the character, since the game doesn't seem to recognize WASD keys pressed in combination. For example, I cannot press 'A'+'W' to make the character move diagonally.
CCP should consider making character movement keys move the character in absolute terms, not relative to the camera -- 'W' should make the character always move forward, regardless of where the camera is facing. CCP should also consider changing the camera pivot point to the character's head or thereabouts.
I agree with everything Alice said.
I shouldn't have to stop moving in order to turn, and movement should not be relative to the camera.
Also, walking speed is way, way too slow and the game freezes for me for about 10 seconds every thirty seconds or so.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.25 18:49:00 -
[7]
another option would be the person would walk to the relevant area for the task picked. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.04.25 19:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kaiji Nekomono
EDIT: Another thought is that it seems weird to me that you have a personal quarters on every single space station in the galaxy. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make each space station be a communal area where you see everyone else who's at the station with separate areas for each station service? Too late now, but it just seems like a bad design decision and a huge wasted opportunity.
You know that a station room management is ran like in a hotel, which actually makes considering how much traffic there are at the stations ? So no one can actually 'own' a room in the station unless you built the thing from your own wallet, just like in real hotels. Also reception and bars are going to be added later.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Gangster101 PureLove
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Posted - 2011.04.26 01:06:00 -
[9]
Basically in short you would like a strife (q and e) included.
Jump would be nice.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.04.26 06:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gangster101 PureLove Basically in short you would like a strife (q and e) included.
Not quite. The entire control scheme is poorly designed. A camera-relative control scheme is a bad idea in general for avatar-based games, unless the camera perspective is locked down during normal gameplay, which basically turns it into a character-relative control scheme. Combined with the lack of side movement (strafing) and an unintuitive over-the-shoulder camera focus/pivot, I have to wonder whether those responsible for the control scheme have played any good third-person games released in the past decade. It's just a bad design, as evidenced quite plainly by the number of complaints in the feedback thread in General Discussion.
Basically, the current movement system combined with the 360-degrees of freedom camera makes for an unpredictable and unintuitive control scheme. When the camera is in its 'default' position behind the character, movement is okay-ish aside from the odd camera focus somewhere over the character's shoulder. When the camera moves away from that position, movement becomes unintuitive until the character is again facing away from the camera. Moving the character in a straight line while rotating the camera is almost impossible, because the movement key functions change as the camera rotates, and the game doesn't currently allow us to move the character diagonally to the camera. This could be easily fixed by switching to a character-relative control scheme, which is the default for virtually all good third-person games.
For example, Morrowind, a game designed to be played using a first-person perspective, also incorporated a good third-person view. The camera was focused on the character at a fixed point; the player easily grasped what the camera was looking at and what its pivot point was. The W key always made the character move forward; the A and D keys made the character strafe; the S key made the character walk backwards. The character could be turned by moving the mouse.
In summary, any control scheme where a player has to stop and think every few minutes what button she needs to press to make the character go forward is bad. So is a control scheme that does not allow a character to turn on the move, or that gives a character a turning radius like a car. A character's movement should not resemble that of a car or a tank.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.04.26 07:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: Kaiji Nekomono
EDIT: Another thought is that it seems weird to me that you have a personal quarters on every single space station in the galaxy. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make each space station be a communal area where you see everyone else who's at the station with separate areas for each station service? Too late now, but it just seems like a bad design decision and a huge wasted opportunity.
You know that a station room management is ran like in a hotel, which actually makes considering how much traffic there are at the stations ? So no one can actually 'own' a room in the station unless you built the thing from your own wallet, just like in real hotels. Also reception and bars are going to be added later.
EVE takes place a several millenia from now. An entire solar system can be crossed in an instant, the contents of a human mind can be streamed across the galaxy in mere seconds, multi-kilometer spaceships are assembled out of raw minerals in a matter of hours, and nanites can be sent flying through space unharmed by radiation to repair armor damage. Would it be so hard to assume that a capsuleer's "quarters" are simply data stored on a server somewhere in Jita 4-4; when a capsuleer docks at a station or outpost, the station computer accesses that data, reserves the appropriate volume of space, and assembles the environment attached to the ship hangar using nanites? That same assembly mechanism could replicate personal effects and other such things. After all, a capsuleer is little more than data, inhabiting a quasi-artificial construct made to look like her original body.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.26 08:47:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 26/04/2011 08:54:07 I'm confused--you say it's like Resident Evil, but then you say it's movement relative to the camera, which is the exact opposite. In RE, pushing up moves the character forward--the direction the character is facing--regardless of camera position. So this is exactly the opposite of Resident Evil.
I honestly don't understand what the complaint is. You just rotate the camera to change the direction you're walking. It's pretty much like how every other MMO works--pushing W moves you in the direction the camera is facing. You control facing with the mouse and movement with the keyboard. The difference being that the animation looks a lot more natural. The character's head turns the direction of the camera and then the body turns naturally in that direction. When you face the opposite way, your character actually turns around instead of just *poof* facing the other way.
The only issue I have with it is the weird off-center camera when zoomed in and the inability to invert the y-axis. I'd rather it turn first-person when fully zoomed-in.
Someone said you can't move diagonally...WTF? Just move the camera and tada! you're moving diagonally. Also, I just tried hitting W and A or D at the same time and it works fine.
This is pretty much industry-standard stuff--I don't understand what the complaints are about. It sounds like some of you have never played any other games ever and you don't understand how third-person games have worked for the last 10 years or so. Other than the upside-down y-axis, it feels very intuitive to me. I'm trying to imagine how exactly you expect it to work and I really cannot do it.
Originally by: Kaiji Nekomono I shouldn't have to stop moving in order to turn
Here's some very simple directions:
- hold 'W"
- click and drag the mouse left or right
- You have now turned without stopping
- Is your mind blown?
Originally by: Nova Fox A bit more realism the resident evil controls are not the way to go.
You've quite obviously never played Resident Evil. If you want movement to not be relative to the camera, then you are describing Resident Evil (and other survival horror game) controls. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Asptar Monastair
Minmatar Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2011.04.27 02:03:00 -
[13]
The point of the offset camera is because we will be interacting with objects in the environment, and in third person that which is in front of you is usually blocked from the camera's view. Besides, you can change the camera offset in settings, so it's a non-issue. People keep mentioning how the controls are so different to an FPS etc. Incarna isnt an FPS. Its an RPG, like Mass Effect, except there's no shooting (yet), so people strafing all over the place looking like they're trying to avoid fire would look really out of place. It's not an action normal people perform in anything outside combat or sport. --- </rant> |
Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.27 03:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Asptar Monastair Incarna isnt an FPS. Its an RPG, like Mass Effect, except there's no shooting (yet), so people strafing all over the place looking like they're trying to avoid fire would look really out of place. It's not an action normal people perform in anything outside combat or sport.
Exactly.
The camera and controls work very much like every 3D MMO I've ever played. Incarna should not feel like a third-person action game. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.04.27 14:02:00 -
[15]
Why not just copy the mass effect camera scheme?
Worked good enough there, and itl work good enough here if they decide to eventually make shooting people in the kneecaps part of the game.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.28 03:46:00 -
[16]
ESDF > WASD
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.28 04:28:00 -
[17]
Im not talking about straffing at all though nice it isnt natural to strafe often but we are seeking first person shooter like controls for just on the grounds of familairity of current games or a reasonable third person controls also which should be very much barrowed FPS controls these days anyways.
I want the following options at least
Combo key press of WASD (or ESDF or someother scheme the player choses and make that optionable) So I can move backwards and turn while a do so to sneakily duck back into a dark corner instead of gallapoing around like a ponie to get to that corner then get stuck in an akward moment.
Being able to walk diagonaly at least or turn while walking without requiring to comming to a complete stop to press A or D to turn before resuming to walk (IE class resident evil style refered to, you had to stop in the older games to turn around to shoot the zombie munching your brains out current RE controls are fps'ish)
Options that are absolute to the character (ie W is always walk forward regardless of camera) or camera relevant (IE W is walk in the direction away from the camera use your camera as a steering stick mostly)
Essentially we want to remove movement fustration, make it one of the furthest things from our minds when we walk in stations. The more fustrating it is to move the more the player is not going to like incarna. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.28 04:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 28/04/2011 05:01:58
Originally by: Nova Fox Being able to walk diagonaly at least or turn while walking without requiring to comming to a complete stop to press A or D to turn before resuming to walk
Either you can't read or you are unable to hold down a mouse button while moving the mouse. That's the only thing I can think of.
The other day I spent a good five minutes walking fluidly in circles and other shapes all over my quarters without stopping once. I thought about making a video to upload to Youtube and blow your mind with my mad skillz, but I couldn't be bothered to install Fraps or whatever.
If you think you can't turn without stopping, you are wrong unless you have some sort of physical impairment that keeps you from holding down the left mouse button and moving the mouse. Sorry if I'm being a bit sarcastic/rude, but you're saying things that clearly are not true. I wonder if you really tried CQ out or just watched a video.
This exact control scheme and camera work just fine for hundreds of MMOs. If you have a problem with it, the problem is you, not the controls or camera.
Again, if you think you can't turn while walking, try this (quoting myself, maybe you'll read it this time).
Originally by: Kyra Felann Here's some very simple directions:
- hold 'W"
- click and drag the mouse left or right
- You have now turned without stopping
- Is your mind blown?
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.28 06:02:00 -
[19]
Not sure how your computer is handeling captains quaters but its not letting me do what you're describing at all, I still have to stop then hit a or d in just order to get the character to start to turn and she will stubbornly half attempt it. Anytime I press two keys at once it throws a hissy fit and moving camera at the same time while pressing key makes it go GTFO. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.28 06:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nova Fox Not sure how your computer is handeling captains quaters but its not letting me do what you're describing at all, I still have to stop then hit a or d in just order to get the character to start to turn and she will stubbornly half attempt it. Anytime I press two keys at once it throws a hissy fit and moving camera at the same time while pressing key makes it go GTFO.
A and D don't turn--they make you walk sideways relative to the camera.
It sounds like your computer just can't run it. I had stuttering and other performance issues, but I had no problem pressing multiple keys, moving the camera while walking, etc. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
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Moonasha
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Posted - 2011.04.28 07:36:00 -
[21]
i just want to be able to turn with my mouse. It's so clunky...
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.28 07:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Moonasha i just want to be able to turn with my mouse. It's so clunky...
You...can.
Well, you can't right now, because Duality is down, but as I've said about 5 times in this thread, I could turn with my mouse just fine. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.28 17:51:00 -
[23]
Win 7 64 Pro Core 2 Duo, 2.4 GHz 8GB Ram 9800GTX 512MB
CQ loves to lag up when relooping the video for incursion updates. But it may just be my computer, Ill have to wait until optimizations come out then before I can get another gander at this. Until then the controls feel very clunky to me.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.29 04:20:00 -
[24]
Did you turn the graphical settings up too high?
Somewhere they said to use at or below certain settings. I turned it up to my normal maxed-out settings and it exploded and didn't work at all. I restarted and set it to the default and it worked fine.
Next time, be sure to set it to the default settings, or even lowest and see how it works then. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.29 16:05:00 -
[25]
They said to turn AA off which it is HDR is also on low everything else is resolution based. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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