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How Many Capital Ships Can Fit Through A Wormhole

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Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:08:00 - [1] I have been roaming through wormhole systems to see what there is to see and to familiarize myself with the mechanics of it all. To my surprise I have found several POS with carriers docked inside, and an occasional dreadnought. That surprised me. I thought passing through the mass of just one or two capitals could collapse the biggest wormholes. How safe are wormhole POS from being attacked by a fleet of capitals? I thought the logistics of getting capitals in and out would make wormhole POS rather safe. But seeing capitals docked inside made me wonder whether that assessment was faulty.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:14:00 - [2] giggity -------------- Fix the game's last broken weapon system - support if you care!
Linda Shadowborn Gallente Dark Steel Industries	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:15:00 - [3] Remember they can still be built inside too (well super caps nonwithstanding).
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:17:00 - [4] I think I might notice a POS on a neighboring moon with a capital ship assembly array, and have time to prepare for the assault.
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:27:00 - [5] Is this a dirty joke? ~Gnosis~
Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:33:00 - [6] It really depends on the wormhole, some of them can fit a titan, others will falter under the stress of a few battleships. Why does this sound so dirty?
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.04.25 19:41:00 - [7] Imagine how safe your wormhole POS is if you have built capitals inside the hole but no one else can get capitals in. Yes, someone puts up a tower and a ship assembly array, you just go and pop their tower with your dreads before they build capitals to do the same to you.
Floydd Heywood	Posted - 2011.04.25 20:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Fredfredbug4 It really depends on the wormhole, some of them can fit a titan, No. Carriers and Dreads are the only combat capital ships that can ever be in w-space. You can bring carriers and dreads into c5 and c6 systems. You cannot bring more than three capitals through any particular wormhole, but of course you can just scan the next wormhole and bring more in. You could easily stuff your system with 500 dreads if you are rich and crazy enough. For c1-4 you cannot bring any capitals in because no wormholes exist in these systems that are big enough. You can however easily build carriers and dreads at your POS. You cannot use capital ship assembly arrays in w-space because they require sovereignty which cannot be claimed in unknown space. That's why no titans or supercarriers can ever be in w-space. To build carriers and dreads however you only need the x-large ship assembly array, which also builds Orcas and Rorquals. A capital will only make you safer if it has a strong fleet it can support. Solo capitals are very easy to kill. A carrier is a force multiplier, so if there is nothing it can multiply, it's worthless.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.25 20:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 25/04/2011 20:23:27 Thanks for the tip on hole sizes, Heywood. That's very helpful. Now that you mention it I have only seen capitals in C5 and up.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.25 20:44:00 - [10] As said, cap ships can be build in any class of w-space, it's just they can't freely move in or out of the lower classes. Many people in c3s and below like to have a carrier to whip out for home defence, and half the time it seems to be their first pew in one and don't just assigned fighters from the FF edge but will be baited out to a highsec or any hole, none of which they can jump and so they get tackled. Rarer still they'll be doing anoms (apparently not factoring in the investment time and isk for a ship that can only be sold in situ or selfdestructed) or come defend someone caught in one. I think people are learning that leaving them floating in their FF isn't a deterrant, but a sign that they can either be baited out or have expensive stuff should you attack them and they're not very active.

Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.25 20:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Floydd Heywood Edited by: Floydd Heywood on 25/04/2011 20:20:48 Originally by: Fredfredbug4 It really depends on the wormhole, some of them can fit a titan, No. Carriers and Dreads are the only combat capital ships that can ever be in w-space. You can bring carriers and dreads into c5 and c6 systems. You cannot bring more than three capitals through any particular wormhole, but of course you can just scan the next wormhole and bring more in. You could easily stuff your system with 500 dreads if you are rich and crazy enough. (edit: Or rather: Wait for the next wormhole to be scanned from the outside, as there are no static wormholes in c5/6 that lead to known space.) For c1-4 you cannot bring any capitals in because no wormholes exist in these systems that are big enough. You can however easily build carriers and dreads at your POS. You cannot use capital ship assembly arrays in w-space because they require sovereignty which cannot be claimed in unknown space. That's why no titans or supercarriers can ever be in w-space. To build carriers and dreads however you only need the x-large ship assembly array, which also builds Orcas and Rorquals. A capital will only make you safer if it has a strong fleet it can support. Solo capitals are very easy to kill. A carrier is a force multiplier, so if there is nothing it can multiply, it's worthless. I'm aware that Titans can't enter. I was just referring to the mass rather than the ship. Sorry for not making that clear.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.26 00:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Floydd Heywood You can bring carriers and dreads into c5 and c6 systems. For c1-4 you cannot bring any capitals in because no wormholes exist in these systems that are big enough. That would seem to imply you can never bring carriers and dreads into C5/C6, which never have wormholes linking to k-space, meaning there is no way for a carrier or dread to be staged "next door" => they have all been built inside their C5/C6.
khazak mokl Amarr Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.26 06:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Floydd Heywood You can bring carriers and dreads into c5 and c6 systems. For c1-4 you cannot bring any capitals in because no wormholes exist in these systems that are big enough. That would seem to imply you can never bring carriers and dreads into C5/C6, which never have wormholes linking to k-space, meaning there is no way for a carrier or dread to be staged "next door" => they have all been built inside their C5/C6. C5/C6's never have a connecting Wh to empire? I think you need to go away and do some research B4 posting if your not sure what ur talking about. There are lots of connecting WHs to C5/C6 from empire wether from high/low/Null sec. None of them static but still . . .
PewPewLaser	Posted - 2011.04.26 07:34:00 - [14] I think it's also prudent to mention that once the mass limit of a wormhole is met, there is still a 5 second window that allows people to jump through, so even if a wormhole is on it's dying breath, you can get a full 50 man fleet through. I believe they will all land in random places throughout the new WH system though.
Lady Oxycontin	Posted - 2011.04.26 07:52:00 - [15] Supposedly there is/are C5's with null sec statics. I was in one, staticmapper said their was a null static, ns static was found. Staticmapper may have been wrong and I didn't have enough time to stay in there and prove it. I would like to know if such WH's do exist though. It could of been a chance of RNG being random though.
Mandy Dian	Posted - 2011.04.26 09:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Lady Oxycontin Supposedly there is/are C5's with null sec statics. I was in one, staticmapper said their was a null static, ns static was found. Staticmapper may have been wrong and I didn't have enough time to stay in there and prove it. I would like to know if such WH's do exist though. It could of been a chance of RNG being random though. No c5 will have a NS static. However, you can have non-k162 WH's that spawn in a c5 going to NS(can't remember the sig ID). Since staticmapper relies on user input, it's quite likely that someone found such a WH in a c5 and assumed incorrectly that it was a static.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.26 10:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 26/04/2011 10:33:56 Originally by: Mandy Dian Since staticmapper relies on user input, it's quite likely that someone found such a WH in a c5 and assumed incorrectly that it was a static. wormnav.com doesn't have that problem. Edit: checked the datafiles, only regions 7 (c2s, sig K346 size 2.5) and 14 (c3s, sig E545 size 2.5) have static nullsecs, with region 7 having dual statics (usually sig N062 size 2.5 to c5s, except constellation 59 which is listed as having sig R474 size 2.2 to c6s).
bartos100 Killer Koalas R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.26 11:58:00 - [18] i heard someone say that if you jump multiple caps at the same time you would be able to get all those caps through but the WH would collapse behind them not sure if it's true tho anyone ever tried this ?
Floydd Heywood	Posted - 2011.04.26 12:40:00 - [19] Originally by: PewPewLaser I think it's also prudent to mention that once the mass limit of a wormhole is met, there is still a 5 second window that allows people to jump through, so even if a wormhole is on it's dying breath, you can get a full 50 man fleet through. I believe they will all land in random places throughout the new WH system though. That may have been true at some time, but it certainly isn't anymore. We recently tested it several times with two people activating a critical wormhole at the same time. One of them always got an error message that the wormhole had collapsed, and didn't get through. Originally by: Daneel Trevize Edit: checked the datafiles, only regions 7 (c2s, sig K346 size 2.5) and 14 (c3s, sig E545 size 2.5) have static nullsecs, You mixed up the identifiers, K346 is C3>NS. Also, Staticmapper says that there are three constellations in R01 (C1) that have NS statics, and I tend to believe it. Though I cannot think of anything more useless than a C1 with NS static g
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.26 18:22:00 - [20] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 26/04/2011 18:25:32 My bad, K346<->E545 when I was manually copy-pasting from the txt files. Yep Region 1 Constellations 311-313 sig Z060 size 2.5 to nullsec, the rest(314-323) are sig J244 size 5 to lowsec, all are c1s in region 1. Good luck getting even a BS through those though, to get back on topic.

Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.26 20:57:00 - [21] Originally by: khazak mokl I think you need to go away and do some research B4 posting if your not sure what ur talking about. Originally by: Guillame Herschel I have been roaming through wormhole systems to see what there is to see and to familiarize myself with the mechanics of it all. HTH
Doddy Excidium.	Posted - 2011.04.26 23:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: khazak mokl I think you need to go away and do some research B4 posting if your not sure what ur talking about. Originally by: Guillame Herschel I have been roaming through wormhole systems to see what there is to see and to familiarize myself with the mechanics of it all. HTH Plenty of C5s/C6s have links to k-space. Its statics to k-space they don't have (i believe).
Rafael Freeman	Posted - 2011.04.27 05:35:00 - [23] My titan can't fit through but I can always activate my doomsday on it.
Songbird Gallente T.I.E. Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.27 16:23:00 - [24] How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.04.28 20:48:00 - [25] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 28/04/2011 20:50:30 Originally by: Doddy Plenty of C5s/C6s have links to k-space. Its statics to k-space they don't have (i believe). Yes, I think I was trying to say this, but didn't know to call them 'statics.' C4-C6 have no static wormholes to k-space. But they can have static holes to other w-space. In other words (if I understand correctly) if I find a K126 in k-space, it will lead to a C1-C3, never a C4-C6. Only the other non-K126 end of a wormhole can connect from k-space to C4-C6. What I am not sure of is whether I can scan down a K126 if the other end has not yet been opened by someone else. I think the answer is no?
Raid'En	Posted - 2011.04.28 20:55:00 - [26] Edited by: Raid''En on 28/04/2011 20:56:38 Originally by: Doddy Plenty of C5s/C6s have links to k-space. Its statics to k-space they don't have (i believe). this. you can see sometimes nullsec wh on these (others also, but nullsec are more common), but don't hope for it to respawn. also there are some exceptions for the capitals sized wh ; if for statics only c5-6 allow them, some pretty rare wh can spawn on c1-4 which will allow one. i heard a few people seeing some by themselves, and one being able to get his carrier out before leaving the system. (meaning this one he was right, cause if people often do mistake on what they though they saw, if you're able to do it it means you really see it) didn't so it myself for now, it'e extremly rare, i heard it was like 2 by year, but i have saw once a wh in a C1 allowing battleships.
Golar Crexis	Posted - 2011.04.29 16:17:00 - [27] Hey there. Since this thread has quite a few knowledgeable people in it: I was wondering where I can get good info on wormholes and the terminology being used in this thread. Evelopedia does not go into enough detail for this :( Golar
khazak mokl Amarr Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.29 18:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Golar Crexis Hey there. Since this thread has quite a few knowledgeable people in it: I was wondering where I can get good info on wormholes and the terminology being used in this thread. Evelopedia does not go into enough detail for this :( Golar Try http://fiercewebs.com/arcdragon/EverythingWormhole108.pdf
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.04.29 19:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Doddy Plenty of C5s/C6s have links to k-space. Its statics to k-space they don't have (i believe). Yes, I think I was trying to say this, but didn't know to call them 'statics.' C4-C6 have no static wormholes to k-space. But they can have static holes to other w-space. In other words (if I understand correctly) if I find a K126 in k-space, it will lead to a C1-C3, never a C4-C6. Only the other non-K126 end of a wormhole can connect from k-space to C4-C6. What I am not sure of is whether I can scan down a K126 if the other end has not yet been opened by someone else. I think the answer is no? D792 are random wormholes to hisec. They are a favorite find for us in a C5. One can bring a freighter through them. D792 have a small signature size, where K162 usually large. So yes it is possible to find a wormhhole in hisec that leads to a C5. Anecdotal evidence suggests the K162 side does not exist until initiating warp to the other side (no need to land on grid).


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