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Refining at a POS - the yields?

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Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club OMEGA.	Posted - 2011.04.26 08:33:00 - [1] Hey! So, I browsed the forums 10 pages and didn't find a single topic about the refining arrays at poses. I just need the yield clarified, it says that it is 0.35, so I guess that it means that it refines at base 35% yield? Do my skills apply to it? Does it mean that I will get only 35% of all the minerals? Or do I lose less than 65%? Regarding ice it says that ice will always be refined at operators best skill - so considering that I've got the ice skill at 4, how much will I lose? And final question - is the intensive refining array worth having more than a couple normal refining arrays? Cheers, S
Echo Mande	Posted - 2011.04.26 09:31:00 - [2] This actually comes up fairly often. Your skills do apply to the POS refineries, though when refining minerals there is a cap to yield of I think 75%, regardless of skill. Ice does not suffer such a cap so will refine perfectly with decent skills. In my opinion there are two situations these days that might warrant a refinery. The first is in a deep wormhole, to refine minerals for on site construction. The refinery might be hung at a dedicated refinery POS. The second situation is in a stationless low- or nullsec system used for ice refining, though here having a rorqual compress the ice for shipping is probably more effective. One reason for going with the intensive refinery over the standard, beyond better yield, is the much larger hopper size though if you are refining several different ore types the longer refining time might be a liability. my 0.02 ISK
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club OMEGA.	Posted - 2011.04.26 09:58:00 - [3] I performed a small test on ore, it appears although I got all refining skills at 4 (For all ores), it still gave me only 35% of the ore, that's a bit sad :( I'll using nearby outposts with tax to refine ores from now on, but thanks for the info! I will keep the refinaries to refine ice for sure :)
Echo Mande	Posted - 2011.04.26 12:28:00 - [4] 35% would be the yield cap for the standard refinery then. If you're going to be using a POS for mining purposes, such as in a stationless system, you could consider putting a large ship assembly array up there instead of a refinery. It can contain more ore than you'll mine in almost any operation, allows faster hauler turnaround and lets you use freighters to haul the ore afterwards. Good luck.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club OMEGA.	Posted - 2011.04.26 12:37:00 - [5] Edited by: Sealiah on 26/04/2011 12:37:19 Originally by: Echo Mande 35% would be the yield cap for the standard refinery then. If you're going to be using a POS for mining purposes, such as in a stationless system, you could consider putting a large ship assembly array up there instead of a refinery. It can contain more ore than you'll mine in almost any operation, allows faster hauler turnaround and lets you use freighters to haul the ore afterwards. Good luck. Wouldn't corp hangars work exactly as well? For now we'r using corp hangars and it seems a few could serve all our needs without a problem. I mean, what's the benefit of using ship assembly arrays over corp hangars?
Echo Mande	Posted - 2011.04.26 12:47:00 - [6] Edited by: Echo Mande on 26/04/2011 12:48:59 Edited by: Echo Mande on 26/04/2011 12:48:14 Originally by: Sealiah Edited by: Sealiah on 26/04/2011 12:37:19 Originally by: Echo Mande 35% would be the yield cap for the standard refinery then. If you're going to be using a POS for mining purposes, such as in a stationless system, you could consider putting a large ship assembly array up there instead of a refinery. It can contain more ore than you'll mine in almost any operation, allows faster hauler turnaround and lets you use freighters to haul the ore afterwards. Good luck. Wouldn't corp hangars work exactly as well? For now we'r using corp hangars and it seems a few could serve all our needs without a problem. I mean, what's the benefit of using ship assembly arrays over corp hangars? Sheer storage volume. A hangar array has 1.4M m3 storage space (about 2 freighter loads) for 100GW power and 150 CPU, a large assembly array has 18.5M m3 (about 25 loads) for 300GW and 1000 CPU. I've seen a large ship array being filled by a single mining operation, but if memory serves it took about a dozen hulks with top Orca boost most of a day to do it. It depends on your corp's needs and you can of course also use the array as a combination ore store / fuel store. Going the other way, if CPU/grid are limited you could consider using component arrays as hangars.
Loki Sei	Posted - 2011.04.26 13:00:00 - [7] Yes the smaller refining array is about worthless. The larger array is capped at 75%, and the base starts at about 56%. Depending on where you are at and the logistics of the situation, this is exactly the reason a Rorq exists. Compress the ore and get it back to a station for refining.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.04.26 19:42:00 - [8] Advanced Large ship array is bigger, and uses the same power and CPU of a large ship array (or x-large for that matter). See my post on Efficient Storage.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club OMEGA.	Posted - 2011.04.27 11:02:00 - [9] Thank you guys for the input! It'll all help us a lot down in 0.0 to get the mining ops going.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2011.04.27 22:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Sealiah I performed a small test on ore, it appears although I got all refining skills at 4 (For all ores), it still gave me only 35% of the ore, that's a bit sad :( I'll using nearby outposts with tax to refine ores from now on, but thanks for the info! Are you sure you only got 35% of the ore? The Refining interface in NPC stations is somewhat confusing and potentially misleading, and I can easily imagine (this being a game and UI designed by CCP) that the POS Refining interface is similarly made. -- Salpad

Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club OMEGA.	Posted - 2011.05.01 19:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Sealiah I performed a small test on ore, it appears although I got all refining skills at 4 (For all ores), it still gave me only 35% of the ore, that's a bit sad :( I'll using nearby outposts with tax to refine ores from now on, but thanks for the info! Are you sure you only got 35% of the ore? The Refining interface in NPC stations is somewhat confusing and potentially misleading, and I can easily imagine (this being a game and UI designed by CCP) that the POS Refining interface is similarly made. Nope, the yields just purely refined so poorly, so it is 35% and that's all :(
Kesshisan Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.02 13:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Kesshisan on 02/05/2011 13:40:28 Originally by: Sealiah I performed a small test on ore, it appears although I got all refining skills at 4 (For all ores) This phrase is erroneous. It is impossible to have all refining skills at 4. The skills are: Refining (2% less waste per level) Refinery Efficiency (4% less waste per level) Ore/Metal Processing (5% less waste per level for the specific Ore.) In order to have Refinery Efficiency I, one must have Refining V. In order to have most ore Processing I, one must have Refining V. Note Some only require Refining IV. To figure out what the refining yield is, you can use this tool. However you will need to know the base refinery percentage yield. Note that with a 35% base yield, and all skills at level V, you still will not receive perfect refinement. You need a base of at least 40% and all skills at V to receive perfect refinement.
Loki Sei	Posted - 2011.05.02 18:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Kesshisan Edited by: Kesshisan on 02/05/2011 13:40:28 Originally by: Sealiah I performed a small test on ore, it appears although I got all refining skills at 4 (For all ores) To figure out what the refining yield is, you can use this tool. However you will need to know the base refinery percentage yield. Note that with a 35% base yield, and all skills at level V, you still will not receive perfect refinement. You need a base of at least 40% and all skills at V to receive perfect refinement. That tool does not work for POS refineries, as 35% (for the Refining Array) and 75% (for the Intense Refining Arrays) is not their Base Yield, but their Capped Yield. The Base Yield for the Intense Refinery Arrays is like 56% and the cap is 75% which can be achieved with various combinations of Refining Eff and Ore Processing skills.
Kesshisan Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.03 00:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Loki Sei That tool does not work for POS refineries, as 35% (for the Refining Array) and 75% (for the Intense Refining Arrays) is not their Base Yield, but their Capped Yield. The Base Yield for the Intense Refinery Arrays is like 56% and the cap is 75% which can be achieved with various combinations of Refining Eff and Ore Processing skills. Good to know. Thank you for the added information.


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