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Unsuspicous guy
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Posted - 2011.05.05 01:49:00 -
[1]
So i just checked the info of both of these carriers, and i really dont know which one is better. I also dont have any common fitting for them, but somehow i got the impression, the Thanatos is by far superior to the Nidhoggur.
Both share the same slot-layout. The Thanatos has more structure and 12.5k more base armor hitpoints. So the ehp on the Thanatos will be better than the Nidhoggur's. Also, the Thanatos has more Capacitor, which makes it less vulnerable to neuts. It also has a better targeting range and better signal strength. One point for the nid for the +10mm scanres. Also, the nid has a slightly smaller sigradius (lol) and can go a few m/s faster than the Thana.
Thanatos has 5% more damage per level, nid has 5% rep per level. Since i look at carriers as huge logistics, i would prefer the rep over the dps. Correct me if my view at carriers sucks and they are intended for dps while giving a little logilove.
So by now, we have a Thanatos with a better tank, better targeting stuff and slower locktime and slightly less mobility. And yet, the Thanatos has almost 160,000 MW more powergrid than the Nidhoggur. As mentioned above, i dont have any fittings for em, but i wonder if the Nidhoggur can keep up with the RR while maintaining the same local tank as the thanatos? Are the 160k powergrid important? Or do carriers usually have a lot of spare grid? |
Melleia
Vulcan Innovations
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Melleia on 05/05/2011 02:19:27
if(reppingPOS == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
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Darth McDarth
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Posted - 2011.05.05 02:29:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Melleia
if(reppingPOS == 1 || triageSupportShieldFleet == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
Fixed that for you
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Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.05.05 04:06:00 -
[4]
Take a look at both, try to run a minimum of 2 remote reps while in triage, while fitting a local tank. Tell me what happens.
The problem with the nid isn't its bonuses - heck, its bonuses are probably the best for a carrier, period. The problem is that it is let down by its fitting. You cant fit shield remote reps AND a shield tank, while having enough cap to actually run things. Similarly, you don't have enough PG to fit an armor tank AND armor remote reps, while still having enough cap to run everything. Of course, you can always go with the local armor rep shield trans nid or vice versa... but seriously... why?
-Arazel
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Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.05 04:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arazel Chainfire
Of course, you can always go with the local armor rep shield trans nid or vice versa... but seriously... why?
-Arazel
Why not? If you're in triage, nothing can rep you anyway. It's all up to the carrier to stay alive, so the tank type matters not.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.05 09:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Aamrr on 05/05/2011 09:18:48
It matters if you're trying to do a staggered triage. Repping up someone's shield when they're an armor tank isn't really that helpful, and the nidhoggur lacks the range bonus to capital energy transfer to get the capacitor back to peak, as well.
Edit: Works just fine for sustained or suicide triage, though.
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Melleia
Vulcan Innovations
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Posted - 2011.05.05 10:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darth McDarth
Originally by: Melleia
if(reppingPOS == 1 || triageSupportShieldFleet == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
Fixed that for you
It was a bit of a joke.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.05.05 10:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Melleia
Originally by: Darth McDarth
Originally by: Melleia
if(reppingPOS == 1 || triageSupportShieldFleet == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
Fixed that for you
Java is a bit of a joke.
Fixed that for you
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.05 14:20:00 -
[9]
As a triage carrier, the niddy is better since it's the only carrier that actually has a repping bonus. For pve and hotdropping, the thanny is better due to higher dps.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: King Rothgar
For pve and hotdropping, the thanny is better due to higher dps.
For PVE, sure. But using a carrier for dps in PVP is fail so that point is moot.
Also, Nidhoggur is the only carrier that can effectively both shield rep and armor rep. So unless you want to skill for 2 capital races, Nidhoggur has a huge bonus there.
Tbh I consider the Thanatos the worst carrier, the only thing it does better than others is PVE. I love the Archon for PVP, I love the Nidhoggur for its versatility, and hell even the Chimera is good if you need a dedicated shield repper with a great tank.
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Drykor - AHARM |
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Drykor
Also, Nidhoggur is the only carrier that can effectively both shield rep and armor rep.
I have no idea how the thanatos reps shield or armor worse than the archon or chimera. Yes, all three is inferior to the nidhoggur at both shield and armor, but as far as armor or shield repairing goes the thannie is as good as either of the other two.
That said, if memory serves the thannie gets better cap and tank than the nidhoggur for triage, meaning it's a tradeoff between repping power and local tank. I'd recommend neither of the more specialized carriers however.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 58507
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drykor
Also, Nidhoggur is the only carrier that can effectively both shield rep and armor rep.
The Thanny lacks the bonus to rep amount but has much better fitting and cap than the Niddy so they are pretty much equally capable of repping armour and shield, you trade a direct transfer percentage for a better ability to fit and apply the remote reps.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:44:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 05/05/2011 16:44:38
The Niddy is too constrained on fittings, cap, and local tank to make a good triage carrier. IMO, if you're fitting shield reps to your armor repping triage Niddy, you're wasting a RR slot that could be better used by transporting to the tanked layer. Similarly, the Archon is better for fleet work where the resist bonus definitely outshines the RR bonus, and the higher sensor strength never hurts either.
Some further consideration makes me think that the Niddy might be the best shield transporting triage carrier, but only because the Chimera has :lolcpu:.
Oh, and WRT the Thanny: trivially the best hot dropping/gank carrier, and the best PVE carrier.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.05 17:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 05/05/2011 17:23:24
Originally by: Melleia
Edited by: Melleia on 05/05/2011 02:19:27
if(reppingPOS == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
---
|
Melleia
Vulcan Innovations
|
Posted - 2011.05.05 21:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wacktopia
Fixed that for you
I'm not a programming major, care to enlighten me as to why?
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Headerman
Minmatar
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.05 21:44:00 -
[16]
As previously said the cap on the Niddy is a bit of a joke from CCP. The only things going for it are its bonuses which are great for repping any ship or structure in the game. Be careful with it and keep it out of the line of fire and it will do fine.
The Thanny is great for PVE work, i wouldn't reccomend hot dropping it onto enemies if you are new.
The Archon is amazing. great cap, great armour and awesome transfer range bonuses for cap and armour. It's definately the most versatile and forgiving carrier.
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Amda Tori
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.05 23:19:00 -
[17]
Archon > Thanathos >>> Niddoghur > Chimera
Q.E.D.
________________________________________________
I feel free to explore only within boundaries.
You're =/= your
they're =/= their |
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.08 18:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amda Tori
Archon > Thanathos >>> Niddoghur > Chimera
Q.E.D.
My Chimera, having survived situations other carriers would not, disagrees.
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Theodemir
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.08 18:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wacktopia
Originally by: Melleia
Originally by: Darth McDarth
Originally by: Melleia
if(reppingPOS == 1 || triageSupportShieldFleet == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
Fixed that for you
Java is a bit of a joke.
Fixed that for you
Never laughed so hard reading this forum till now, bravo!
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.08 22:19:00 -
[20]
Archon >>>>>(1000 light years of >)>>>>>> Thanathos ~ Niddoghur ~ Chimera
~ as in they all suk. no one cares if its not amarr anyways.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.09 12:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Archon >>>>>(1000 light years of >)>>>>>> Thanathos ~ Niddoghur ~ Chimera
~ as in they all suk. no one cares if its not amarr anyways.
Because the Archon is amasing at providing triage support to a shield fleet right?
Archon for armour, Chimera for shield, Thanny PvE / DPS / jack of all trades, Nid needs fitting and cap to be boosted.
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Kari Trace
Caldari
Nox Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darth McDarth
Originally by: Melleia
if(reppingPOS == 1 || triageSupportShieldFleet == 1){
carrier = "Nidhoggur";
}
else{
carrier = "Thanatos";
}
System.out.println(carrier);
System.exit(0);
Fixed that for you
I *heart* you both...
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Chase08888
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Posted - 2011.05.10 00:39:00 -
[23]
If your not flying armour your doing it wrong. Archon ftw.<3
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2011.05.10 04:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chase08888
If your not flying armour your doing it wrong. Archon ftw.<3
If you're not flying hull you're doing it wrong. 
Haunting the forums since '03
Originally by: CCP Navigator
We love you all as well <3
Originally by: CCP Navigator
We have just updated Dodixie. We care a lot for Gallente.
NAVIGATOR <3 |
I likegirls
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.05.10 04:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Drykor
Also, Nidhoggur is the only carrier that can effectively both shield rep and armor rep.
I have no idea how the thanatos reps shield or armor worse than the archon or chimera. Yes, all three is inferior to the nidhoggur at both shield and armor, but as far as armor or shield repairing goes the thannie is as good as either of the other two.
That said, if memory serves the thannie gets better cap and tank than the nidhoggur for triage, meaning it's a tradeoff between repping power and local tank. I'd recommend neither of the more specialized carriers however.
neither of the more specialized carriers? Does that mean Archons and Chimeras? lol. you ares a noob.
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Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.05.10 06:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Wacktopia
Originally by: Melleia
Originally by: Darth McDarth
Originally by: Melleia
Fixed that for you
Java is a bit of a joke.
Fixed that for you
std::string carrier = ( reppingPOS || triageSupportShieldFleet ) ? "Nidhoggur" : "Thanatos";
cout << carrier;
exit(0);
Fixed.
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Headerman
Minmatar
Element 115.
Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 10:43:00 -
[27]
(tirade incoming)
Why does the Nid suffer from cap issues anyway? When it comes down to Caldari Vs Minmatar for cap, who uses it more? Both fire cap-less weapons, but one relies on shield resists while the other relies on active tanking (sub cap wise anyway)
Minmatar needs more cap lurve!
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Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 11:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Headerman
(tirade incoming)
Why does the Nid suffer from cap issues anyway? When it comes down to Caldari Vs Minmatar for cap, who uses it more? Both fire cap-less weapons, but one relies on shield resists while the other relies on active tanking (sub cap wise anyway)
Minmatar needs more cap lurve!
Actually, iirc, minnie is supposed to speed/sig tank, vs amarr/gallente armor tanks and caldari shields... But speed tanked cap ships do strike me as a little on the useless side 
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I don't post on an alt, I post on my forum main! |
Headerman
Minmatar
Element 115.
Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 11:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Azhpol
Originally by: Headerman
(tirade incoming)
Why does the Nid suffer from cap issues anyway? When it comes down to Caldari Vs Minmatar for cap, who uses it more? Both fire cap-less weapons, but one relies on shield resists while the other relies on active tanking (sub cap wise anyway)
Minmatar needs more cap lurve!
Actually, iirc, minnie is supposed to speed/sig tank, vs amarr/gallente armor tanks and caldari shields... But speed tanked cap ships do strike me as a little on the useless side
True that... a carrier going 10 m/s faster than all others is still pretty dumb lol
For caps though CCP has aimed Minmatar right on the doorstep of RR. And RR needs alot of cap.
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Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.14 18:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shade Millith
Originally by: Arazel Chainfire
Of course, you can always go with the local armor rep shield trans nid or vice versa... but seriously... why?
-Arazel
Why not? If you're in triage, nothing can rep you anyway. It's all up to the carrier to stay alive, so the tank type matters not.
Obviously enough.. because you already have resists.
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Hash Arzi
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Posted - 2011.07.14 21:41:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Hash Arzi on 14/07/2011 21:50:32
I think we can all agree that Minmatar's main "feature" is its speed. On sub-capital ships, this works extremely well as they can get out of unfavorable situations. The problem is applying that ideology to a capital ship. Here's what I suggest:
Carriers are used very often to hot-drop opposing fleets. When the engagement is over, carriers must wait for their capacitor to recharge. Therefore, if the Nidhoggur has a higher base capacitor recharge, it would be able to get out faster. This could also fix some capacitor issues.
Carriers are very important for 0.0 logistics. Since the Minmatar ships are faster than the other races, it should be able to travel further faster. Possibly increasing the jump range could make the Nidhoggur a much more attractive ship.
If the Nidhoggur had both of ideas suggested above, it would be over-powered. The capacitor recharge fixes both problems in my opinion. Pick the best idea and go cry to CCP so they do something about ;)
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.14 22:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Headerman
(tirade incoming)Why does the Nid suffer from cap issues anyway? When it comes down to Caldari Vs Minmatar for cap, who uses it more? Both fire cap-less weapons, but one relies on shield resists while the other relies on active tanking (sub cap wise anyway)
Minmatar needs more cap lurve!
Originally by: Hash Arzi
Carriers are used very often to hot-drop opposing fleets. When the engagement is over, carriers must wait for their capacitor to recharge. Therefore, if the Nidhoggur has a higher base capacitor recharge, it would be able to get out faster. This could also fix some capacitor issues.
Okay, this myth has gone on too far. I want to point out something very, very important: All carriers have identical capacitor regen. (60.1 GJ/s with perfect skills.) Because the Nidhoggur and Thanatos share the same slot layout, they will even have identical capacitor generation under the same fit.
The only reason Minmatar are perceived as being capacitor-starved is because they have a smaller capacitor buffer. This means that if they're burning through capacitor faster than they can replenish it, they won't last quite as long. Even then, the difference isn't very significant.
For the record:
Archon: 81093.8
Thanatos: 75000.0
Chimera: 70312.5
Nidhoggur: 65625.0
In practice, this means that the Nidhoggur will be less able to rely on its capacitor buffer to push it through Triage. That is fine. Minmatar are SUPPOSED to have the worst capacitor.
If you want to sustain your carrier for any significant amount of time, there is no difference in capacitor generation beyond how you fit them. All you're missing is the buffer to coast through triage.
For god's sake, Minmatar can't be the best at EVERYTHING. Christ. HTFU.
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Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.07.14 22:21:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aamrr
For christ's sake, Minmatar can't be the best at EVERYTHING. HTFU.
My only gripe with my Nidhoggur (apart from the fact that it's not an archon, heh) is that it's way too fast. No troll. It may only be 30-40ms faster than an Archon, but when you're aligning to get out as soon as objective xyz is completed it doesn't take long before you sail out of rep range of the others. And setting your speed at 3/4 of maximum is annoying, deal with it.
If one were to buff the Nid, I'd just give it a bigger bonus to its RR abilities so it actually feels like you gain something. 25% to RR amount feels inconsequential in this time of supercaps.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.14 22:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
If one were to buff the Nid, I'd just give it a bigger bonus to its RR abilities so it actually feels like you gain something. 25% to RR amount feels inconsequential in this time of supercaps.
On this point, we agree. A 5% RR bonus really isn't adequate, especially since repping someone with a 5% resist bonus correlates to a 33% improvement in EHP/s.
7.5%/level would be a perfectly reasonable buff. I would support such a change.
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mxzf
Minmatar
Shovel Bros
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Posted - 2011.07.15 13:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jack Tronic
std::string carrier = ( reppingPOS || triageSupportShieldFleet ) ? "Nidhoggur" : "Thanatos";
cout << carrier;
exit(0);
Fixed.
Better. I was thinking this myself:
if repping_pos or triage_support_shield_fleet:
carrier = "Nidhoggur"
else: carrier = "Thanatos"
print carrier
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:01:00 -
[36]
...Forgive me, but I can't seem to come up with a capable shield triage Nidhoggur to save my life. Would you mind enlightening me?
By any chance, are you locally armor tanking it?
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Rania Serlia
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:21:00 -
[37]
I always used double shield, one armor or cap xfer, cap rechargers, dualrep, for shield triage. Works the treat for repping up stations/whatever.
This **** does not have the cpu to shield tank and do shield logistics. But it can armor tank and do them fine(dual xfer, not triple).
This **** does not have the grid to properly do armor tanked armor logistics. You can fit dual armor and a dualrep local tank, but no other capital mod with a triage module.
It's supposed to be the premier logistic carrier FFS. Cap isn't even really the issue, fitting the damn thing is.
Archon can fit dual cap xfer and dual armor with triage, or even quad RR no problems.
Chimera can fit 3x shield xfers and a shield tank no problem.
WTS: Nidhoggur.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:24:00 -
[38]
Agreed again. The Nidhoggur and Chimera could both use a significant CPU increase, and I'd support that change too.
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Disgusting Carebear
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Posted - 2011.07.15 23:13:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Disgusting Carebear on 15/07/2011 23:14:57
Originally by: mxzf
Originally by: Jack Tronic
std::string carrier = ( reppingPOS || triageSupportShieldFleet ) ? "Nidhoggur" : "Thanatos";
cout << carrier;
exit(0);
Fixed.
Better. I was thinking this myself:
if repping_pos or triage_support_shield_fleet:
carrier = "Nidhoggur"
else: carrier = "Thanatos"
print carrier
print ("Thanatos", "Nidhoggur")[reppingPos or triageSupportShieldFleet]
---
print "Nidhoggur" if reppingPos or triageSupportShieldFleet else "Thanatos"
fixed!?
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Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.07.16 00:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Aamrr
...Forgive me, but I can't seem to come up with a capable shield triage Nidhoggur to save my life. Would you mind enlightening me?
By any chance, are you locally armor tanking it?
You can do a local shield tank with two transfers if you have a second carrier on the field. You'd fit for capacitor with token local tank (booster, invuln, dcu) and refit from your transfers to a full on hardener setup. It's a lot of hassle compared to stand alone triage like the Archon can do, but it works.
As for giving the Hel a bonus to jump cap, that wouldn't do anything to help the viability of shield supercapitals (not jumping at full HP) which is, even with the uselessness of the Hel, the prominent factor in Aeon online~.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.16 01:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
You can do a local shield tank with two transfers if you have a second carrier on the field. You'd fit for capacitor with token local tank (booster, invuln, dcu) and refit from your transfers to a full on hardener setup. It's a lot of hassle compared to stand alone triage like the Archon can do, but it works.
How exactly are you receiving capacitor while in triage? Sorry if I wasn't specific, but I was speaking with reference to a *triage* Nidhoggur.
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
As for giving the Hel a bonus to jump cap, that wouldn't do anything to help the viability of shield supercapitals (not jumping at full HP) which is, even with the uselessness of the Hel, the prominent factor in Aeon online~.
That should be fixed too.  Nerf slave-implanted capitals while you're at it.
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Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.07.16 01:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Aamrr
How exactly are you receiving capacitor while in triage? Sorry if I wasn't specific, but I was speaking with reference to a *triage* Nidhoggur.
You're not, you are fitting lows and mids with cap modules (best named CPRs and rechargers because of horrid CPU).
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.07.16 01:40:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
Originally by: Aamrr
How exactly are you receiving capacitor while in triage? Sorry if I wasn't specific, but I was speaking with reference to a *triage* Nidhoggur.
You're not, you are fitting lows and mids with cap modules (best named CPRs and rechargers because of horrid CPU).
Oh! So the second carrier is for...eww. EWW! That's...that's vile. No thanks. 
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Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2011.07.16 08:58:00 -
[44]
The Nidh looks cooler.
Nidh > Thana >>>>>>>>>> Chim > Arch in the looks department.
Can't wait for the ship model revamp to get to the Nidh and take it the scrap-heap look to the new industrial look for minmatar.
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Admiral Tom
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Posted - 2011.07.16 10:42:00 -
[45]
Thanatos without a doubt ...
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.07.16 13:18:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Aamrr
Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
Originally by: Aamrr
How exactly are you receiving capacitor while in triage? Sorry if I wasn't specific, but I was speaking with reference to a *triage* Nidhoggur.
You're not, you are fitting lows and mids with cap modules (best named CPRs and rechargers because of horrid CPU).
Oh! So the second carrier is for...eww. EWW! That's...that's vile. No thanks.
If you are sending a triage Niddy in you have to send a backup carrier.......... so you can scoop the capitol mods from its wreck.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2011.07.16 14:06:00 -
[47]
long story short nid is best when no tank is required, but repairstrength is vital. It's also one of the better carriers for slightly larger engagement however illogical that may seem.
The thanatos is best when no repair power nor tank is required... Uhm.. For example when.. uhm. moving drones to a remote hub in bulk and you don't have access to freigters or jfs!
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 808721
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Flynn Fetladral
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2011.07.16 15:16:00 -
[48]
If Minmatar is about mobility then the Nid and the Hel should get a bonus to Jump Drive Calibration and Fuel Efficiency. The Nidhoggurs flexibility is a strength, and a weakness, and the rep bonus makes sense. Not sure so much so on the Hel, but oh well.
Follow Flynn on Twitter |
Vialle Shadowflame
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Posted - 2011.07.23 02:01:00 -
[49]
Nidhoggur is inferior in everything that matters. Go with Thanny or Archon.
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