Originally by: Martosh Toma

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But Ghoest, If they want to go for untraceble and maximized returns they could simply run their own isk selling company on the side and profit twice.
(first on selling you the isk 'illegally' and then taking the isk from you with a warning forcing you to buy your isk again trough plex)
They already have the contacts they'd need for setting up something like that.

But I find it unlikely, It may seem like a way to easy money to you, but ccp needs all the credibilty they have. And, something that may even be stranger to you, they actually care about eve.

Even mere believeble hints of unfairness would cost them too many customers. Just remember the outcry on some things best left in the past, involving unfair actions by dev's. Or more recent the backlash when they arteficially capped systems or kept them 'sort of' running longer for data on lag.

I think you are seeing ghosts, Ghoest

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Originally by: egola

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Edited by: egola on 09/05/2011 14:23:44

Originally by: Ghoest

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You guys are being naive.

CCP has clearly laid and has announced that THEY HAVE GIVEN THEMSELVES PERMISSION to do sell sell isk in a way that is very hard to observe with out inside information.

And you are cool with this.

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and Osama's death was faked, while the government death panels are hounding your every step to die, yes we get it. you're EVE's Alex Jones. WE'RE ALL SHEEPLE!

you're acting as if you had some hard evidence of wrong doing when its all just speculation and conjecture.

edit: please alex jones, enlighten us the methods they could be using as opposed to saying that they're doing SOMETHING.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Ghoest

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Im saying they point blank told us they have given themselves permission to sell isk.

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And ? The only problem with ISK selling sites is that CCP doesn't profit from it, quite the contrary.
I would have no problems with CCP selling ISK openly, as long as the rate of exchange would be below what most legitimate players would already jump at the occasion to sell for PLEX so they don't have to pay cash. And "selling ISK" by buying PLEX if PLEX price in ISK drops too much is exactly that.
The "problem" is that PLEX prices ARE NOT "too low" right now, they are "too high". And when they are too high, "selling ISK // buying PLEX" is NOT the solution, the reverse is ("buying ISK // selling PLEX"), which they should want to avoid as much as possible, because it is equivalent to giving out FREE SUBSCRIPTION TIME.

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Originally by: stoicfaux

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Err wait. Where does the isk come from to buy the PLEX? PLEX doesn't increase the amount of isk in Eve because the isk comes from other in-game sources.

Plus the price of PLEX is determined by the players who will take inflation into account.


However, if CCP starts *buying* PLEX with (invisible) NPC style buy orders, then that would create isk and cause inflation.

Even then, if the (invisible) NPC PLEX buy orders were actually funded by the NPC corp tax... then that wouldn't directly cause inflation (but it would remove an isk sink.)

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Originally by: Akita T

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Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2011 16:06:39

Originally by: Ghoest

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You don't have a problem with them selling isk. That is at least valid position.

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I don't have a problem with them selling ISK under certain very specific circumstances. Those circumstances being "at a very poor RL to ISK exchange rate", or at least noticeably worse than what actual players would accept.

Quote:

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I on the other hand have a huge issue with them selling isk. It totally gives up on the ideal of a fair playing with in the game.[...]all isk/goods acquired has required an effort by someone in the game - buying plex always required that someone in game do the work which maintained a level of fairness for those of us who treat it like a game.

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As long as the specific circumstances mentioned above would be the only ones where CCP actually ends up "selling ISK" (and ideally, those circumstances would almost never actually end up "triggering"), not much would change, if anything.

PRACTICAL EXAMPLES:

If PLEX price would plummet, say, below 150 mil ISK/unit (after the volume transacted would have already swelled noticeably due to many, many people adopting it as a payment method), CCP decides that this level is "too low" and starts putting up "stealth NPC" PLEX buy orders at 150 mil ISK/unit. In most cases, those bottom support orders would never actually get processed, as players would put up 150,000,000.01 ISK or higher buy orders most of the time, and only when all of those would end up filled and non-replaced would the CCP orders actually process.
This is the same as CCP selling ISK at 150 mil per 17.5$ and is a very unlikely scenario (the PLEX price plummeting so low to begin with, that is).

If PLEX prices would skyrocket, say, above 600 mil ISK/unit (after the volume transacted would start reducing a lot, as more and more simply start to quit playing because they can't afford to pay cash and no longer can afford to shell out so much ISK), CCP decides that this level is "too high" and starts putting up "stealth NPC" PLEX sell orders at 600 mil ISK/unit. In most cases, those top limiting orders would never actually get processed, as players would put up 599,999,999.99 ISK or lower sell orders most of the time, and only when all of those would end up cleaned and not replaced would the CCP orders actually process.
This is the same as CCP _BUYING_ ISK at 600 mil per 17.5$ and is also a somewhat unlikely scenario (PLEX price ever going so high).


Now the only question is, what should those "too low" and "too high" price levels be.
I picked 150 and 600 arbitrarily, as being below what most would consider a bargain (150) and above what most would consider as too much (600), and as such, unlikely to actually end up near those price levels (or at least, not stick around there too long).

The only "legitimate worry" would be in case CCP decides the "desirable" price interval to be somewhere outside what most players would consider it to be... and CCP isn't saying a peep about their desired price levels.
For all we know they might be 300 and 450 mil instead of 150 and 600. Or worse, 350 and 400.
Now, THAT, that you can worry about.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2011 17:39:13
big post

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Originally by: Claire Voyant

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But on the other hand, central banks (in theory) have to balance their books.

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Originally by: Claire Voyant

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Edited by: Claire Voyant on 10/05/2011 19:02:32

Originally by: Ghoest

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Originally by: Claire Voyant

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But on the other hand, central banks (in theory) have to balance their books.

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Did you look at my link?

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Yes, and I have even looked at the Federal Reserve's Balance sheet. I can assure you it balances.

Edit: N.B. Balancing the books is not the same as balancing the budget.

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