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Fitting tengu for solo C4/C5 w-space PvE

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Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.05.10 23:54:00 - [1] Obviously tengu are neat ships for w-space combat efforts. I have lots of ppl telling me about their being able to solo C4s and C5s in a tengu ... while I am battling on C4s with a very well tanked BS or two. Given the volume of pro-tengu advice out there, I am thinking of giving the ship a try (slow learner yeah :-). I have no experience fitting out tengu so would appreciate some advice, from those who do solo higher class w-space combat sites, on how you setup your ships. I am interested in solo, self-tanking shield based, setups ... no desire for RR setups ... for use in C4 w-systems. Obviously I'd prefer T2 gear if it's up to the job ... although I recall someone talking about soloing C5s in tengu fitted with all-T2 except a deadspace/faction ?large shield booster. Cheers Subs
Herrring Amarr National Quality Breaker	Posted - 2011.05.11 00:38:00 - [2] To solo even a C4 site with a tengu, you will probably have to spend an obscene amount of isk to fit one. And im 99.99% sure that you can't solo any c5 sites with one ship(0.01% unsure because I'm not sure what happens if you spend 60 bil on a tengu.)
Songbird Gallente T.I.E. Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.11 02:34:00 - [3] With neutralizers from npc's it's pretty much impossible - you'd probably need at the very least cap boosters, and you can't carry that many.
Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.05.11 02:53:00 - [4] LOL, thanks guys ... although my main interest is in the advice of those ppl who do do this, all the while acknowledging that there are a lot of ppl (myself included) who cannot. I am reticent to dismiss their advice as grandiose fabrication, largely because so much of the "ya can't do that" advice I've received since moving to w-space has proven to be incorrect ... and is often based on extrapolations from ppl who don't actually have the experience. So, if there are ppl here who do run combat C4s and / or C5s with a solo tengu I'd love to hear more.
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.05.11 04:10:00 - [5] You might be able to do a C5 site if you use some sort of **fit ****ed kiting setup w/ sebos, no tank whatsoever, and sheer speed to save you. It's over if a BS gets within neut range, though.
Kerowyn's	Posted - 2011.05.11 07:10:00 - [6] A single Tengu is not going to be able to put out enough DPS to take down a C5 site, as for a class 4, you could probably get away with kiting the site. My advice, get on SISI pimp a tengu or two out, give it a go save your self some isk and training time messing up there while you find out.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.05.11 10:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 11/05/2011 10:14:19 A tengu could solo tank a c5, but needs a pair of them to break the sleeper RR, at which point flying your own with T2 RR fits is probably best. One of these chaps was caught in a C4 a few days later which I think he was solo tanking and spanking. I'd link the kills again but eve-kill are 'optimizing the database' again. Stone Circle iirc. [Tengu, Pimped 1] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith B-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix [Tengu, Pimped 2] Co-Processor I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix The former is certainly boned w.r.t. cap stability now, the latter might still stay alive (in a c4) but the dps is bad. I don't know if these guys had crystals too. No prop mods to control range.
Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.05.11 11:20:00 - [8] Thanks Kerowyn, I do keep thinking I should try SISI ... and then keep on not doing it. Training time no probs, I see tengu as a must-do anyways even if she doesn't live up to this particular expectation. Merci Loraine. You're right there. I just messed up a spawn trigger and had 4 BSs neuting and nossing me ... evil dogs. Thanks Daneel. I'll play with those ideas, and see if anyone else has more to add. I've also found an alliance mate who's doing this (C5s solo), and have mailed him for fit info ... and will post here if/when I get a reply. Thanks all Subs
Bo Pipe	Posted - 2011.05.11 13:11:00 - [9] Edited by: Bo Pipe on 11/05/2011 13:11:57 You'll make WAY more isk per hour as a solo Tengu in a C3 than in a C4. A couple sites in a C4 might be technically possible, but it will take you forever, and will be frustrating and annoying as hell with significant risk of losing the multi-billion isk ship necessary to even have a chance. C5? Nope. Anyone giving advice about solo Tengu in C5 is offering outdated experience from before the neut change.
Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.05.12 08:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Bo Pipe You'll make WAY more isk per hour as a solo Tengu in a C3 than in a C4. Not just a tengu I suspect. Just cleared around 250M this session, and now all out of sleepers to kill. In the C3 it'd often be twice that in a session, and then same again next evening and one after that. Since there's similar numbers of C3 and C4 systems I assume the lower spawn rate is simply a reflection of the lower occupancy levels of C4s. Less being killed by others = less spawnign for me to kill :-( Originally by: Bo Pipe A couple sites in a C4 might be technically possible, but it will take you forever ... Yes. I have never had anyone tell me it's fast ... just as a solo drake in C3s is not fast :-) Originally by: Bo Pipe C5? Nope. Anyone giving advice about solo Tengu in C5 is offering outdated experience from before the neut change. The neuts are evil, and you may well be right that C5s are not possible. They certainly beyond me ... but then the C3 sites appeared that way when I first moved into that system.

Mournful Conciousness Gallente Special Situations	Posted - 2011.05.12 09:46:00 - [11] Well, I live in C5 wormhole space. We regularly run the sleeper sites in a fleet of remote rep battleships. The smallest fleet we've got away with was 5. I suspect a fleet of RR tengus could do it, provded they carry cap boosters and/or cap transfer, or have dual logi support. To do it solo, you'd need to be able to passive omnitank something like 2000dps and deal at least 1000dps otherwise you'll either end up without a ship, or all the wrecks will have de-spawned by the time you've finished! You ship will be out of cap within 20 seconds of your arrival at the anomlay. I have not yet been able to come up with a tengu fit that meets the criteria above. Our C5 has a static to C3, so we do a lot of raiding in these wormholes. I can confirm that we make as much or more isk per hour per person in the C3 as we do in our home c5. A C5 with 7 battleships, 2 carriers and 2 dreads will take about 1hr 15mins and yield 800-900 million isk A C3 anomaly with 3 battlecruisers takes 6-10 mins and yields ~50 million a site (more if you are lucky with the nanoribbons). Sometimes we find a C3 with null-sec static - these puppies often have 25-30 anomalies that can be run in an afternoon by a dedicated squad. The most efficient is 4 battlecruisers/T3s with a rigged noctis following up salavaging. 4 ships can clear a site in about the same time it takes to salvage.
Waaaaaagggh	Posted - 2011.05.15 05:13:00 - [12] Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 15/05/2011 05:14:42 Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 15/05/2011 05:13:23 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449514 someone did a few tests on the sleeper neuting before the patch went through. Basically if you fit 60% cap stability, you can solo c3's w/o a problem, and c4's i guess as well. this is my solo c3 fit: Quote: [Tengu, Solo C3 Uninterdictable] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix All those CN bcu's are overkill for sure. I usually just put in a DC instead and use the uninterdictable subsystem. But that's the max amount of DPS that's you can pull out of the tengu's ass if you want to maintain 60% cap stable. I haven't tried soloing c4's yet, but c3's are very easy w/ this fit. Just as a comparison: I used to solo c3's in a 48% cap stable drake w/ hardners. Problem w/ drake is it does such ****ty dps that it doesn't kill the neuters fast enough so the cap becomes a problem. Tengu does way more dps so by the time you cap starts having issues, you'll have killed off everything that's neuting you.
Chitsa Jason Caldari Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.05.19 04:33:00 - [13] You could solo C5s with active tanked Tengu before the Neut introduction atm it is not possible just becouse the neuts will dry your cap very fast. Soloing C5s is not profitable anyway due to low dps of a single ship. What you can is to do C5 anoms in 4 RR Tengus.
Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.05.19 07:01:00 - [14] Thanks Chitsa, and everyone else ... even though I think you've entirely dashed what little hope I had of moving on to solo run a C5. Looks like C4 may be my ceiling. The C4 sites are slow enough atm and I am only just starting to manage the tougher anoms without warping out to mend or coming darn close to losing ship ... evil 4 x BS spawns in SIS. Still, I will take those ideas and work on trying to build a decent tengu for in here ... in a few days time when I got the skills for it. Thanks again, very helpful and informative.
Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.05.19 10:30:00 - [15] Just confirming that Waaaaaaagh's post ref. was mine, and that I do use a T2-fitted Tengu to run Frontier Barracks in C4's every now & then. But they do take a while :) I live in a c2-c3 static. If corpies aren't about I run c3 anoms every 13-14 minutes solo, in a T2 fit Legion or Tengu. It's unquestionably the quickest w-space isk earner in my experience, at around 140-200mill an hour depending on mnr's (I have a Noctis alt salvaging behind).
Goodluvins	Posted - 2011.05.19 10:59:00 - [16] I dont even know where to begin with this mess... Don't take the "pimped tengu" approach. Both of those are horrible. Solo C4 is still possible, but do NOT get in range of the neuts. A cap with a delta of +25 can be drained in about 10 secs, from personal experience... Most of the advice about get others to spider tank with and its more profitable to do a C3 solo hold true. I have lived in the same C4 now for over a year and have several tengus with expensive setups. I do run some of the lower anomolies with them, but wont risk the higher ones anymore. Do yourself a favor and just run them with friends.
Gladni Jura	Posted - 2011.05.19 11:21:00 - [17] Solo C4 maybe, too expensive tengu, and too risky. Solo C5 imposibile.
Hathrul	Posted - 2011.05.21 11:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Hathrul on 21/05/2011 11:36:01 You can solo some class 4 sites in a tengu still, but it takes more time and effort then its worth. The most obvious problem is neuting. i dont think you can get a passive tengu to get the size of tank you would need to tank the incomming DPS. That leaves active tanking, so Neuting is death In a C4 there are several kind of battleships. I will only mention the battleships since the "big" spawn is the main problem, the initial staging spawn and the reinforcements arent much of a problem. Get to know the kind of battleships and which turn out most and least damage! Now i found Radars and Mag's easiest to do. Though they have the highest incomming DPS, in class 4 there is just a single final spawn which has neuting. And none of them have scram on the final spawn. There is one major reason why i prefer the higher DPS of the mags and radar. The ships spawn in a 250km area. when you reach the final spawn you can easily position yourself so you can warp up and down in a site. The major thing about this is that you'll be back and forth a lot faster and not give the sleepers much time to remote rep. I prefer some remote rep BS since their dps is considerebly lower then the safeguards and defenders. Fitting the tengu. no 6 launchers. :( [Tengu, wh cl 3 default] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers obviously with scourge. To fit it like this you will either need a cpu implant or increase the amount of CN gear to reduce the cpu, or replace the missile rig. Total cap stable defense: 1064 dps Damage: 572dps with scourge fury now you can obvously increase the tank with better booster or better SBA's, making it a bit stronger and more expensive. There is an obvious lack of afterburner, this mainly because when i fight sleepers im pretty much always webbed. with in-site warp, any site is doable as long as there isnt a scram on the field. neuting makes it a lot harder but if you look at eve-survival youll find a lot of sites where the harder spawns dont field scram or neut. If you warp 180km on 10% shields, by the time you drop warp youll be back at 80%, and 100% by the time they start shooting. you can even make it easier for yourself and make the warp spots before starting in a covert ops. As for level 5. ive been there several times and i dont think its possible to do this. the amount of neuting webbing and scramming is scary, and i doubt you can tank the incomming damage very long. i have known to be wrong though


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