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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:20:00 -
[1]
Recently I've notice quite a lot of sell orders positioned at 0.01 isk above a buy order. I find this most noticable when my own buy order was filled/cleared at the same price.
I think quite a lot of people are screwing up their sales by placing sell orders at the top buy price accidentally.
This started happening when the default behaviour of the orders popup was changed. This started happening when the default behaviour of the orders popup was changed a couple of months back.
Anybody else notices the same thing?
Sometimes this does have strong downward pressure on prices, causing a bit of a sell off.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mara Villoso on 12/05/2011 20:34:54
I have seen this a bit lately too. I just assumed it was for the purpose of forcing the impatient to sell into the person's buy order. Once the buy orders fill and the competition's stock has been cleared out, they post the sell orders at a good price again. |
Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:51:00 -
[3]
When I see it, I usually buy out the sell order; and often find it is the same person as filled my buy order.
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Vandar Inkura
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:57:00 -
[4]
It's not a bug.
When you sell something, using the "advanced" sell order interface (which is automatically on, if you've used it while placing a buy order), it will automatically place all the items you are selling, at 0.1 isk above the highest buy order.
You can just switch to "simple" sell order, and it will sell as usual.
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:55:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Vandar Inkura
When you sell something, using the "advanced" sell order interface (which is automatically on, if you've used it while placing a buy order), it will automatically place all the items you are selling, at 0.1 isk above the highest buy order.
Not quite right. There are two things going on here:
1. It used to be that simple was the default and you always had to select advanced to get it. Some idiot decided to make the one you used last the default. So now if you want to use simple and the last time you did a sell order (which might have been days ago) you used advanced, you get advanced and if you click on it without thinking, #2 comes into play.
2. When you use an advanced sell order, the default price is the highest matching buy order. If the quantity of the buy order is less than the size of your stack, the rest (yes you heard it right, the whole bleepin stack) goes up as a sell order at the same lousy price. Which is typically 0.01 above the next buy order.
And yes, you end up paying the broker's fee for the whole stack no matter how much you sell. Don't you love how CCP "fixes" things?
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:02:00 -
[6]
this change was a month or two ago.
You may not have checked but if you use the advanced option you're charged brokerage fees even if you're buying directly from the market....
.. the whole change might have been a sneaky way for the Secure Commerce Commision to balance their budget!
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Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
[I]f you use the advanced option you're charged brokerage fees even if you're buying directly from the market....
.. the whole change might have been a sneaky way for the Secure Commerce Commission to balance their budget!
You are only charged Market Order Broker Fees if you set an order with a duration of longer than "Immediate", just as before.
You can only set orders with longer durations using the Advanced window, so if you are seeing that window more often now, you might be encountering the fee more often... but the conditions under which the fee is charged did not change do not appear to have changed.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:21:00 -
[8]
the advanced order comes up with your default leghth .. usually 3 months for most of us
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
T2 Technologies Unlimited
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 13/05/2011 02:33:27
The default is actually 24 hours until you change it and click on the "Remember Setting" box.
Edit: nvm, didnt' realize this is referring to buy orders, not sell.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.13 09:34:00 -
[10]
I wasn't suggesting it's a bug as such, viewing it is a behavioural issue; though software workflows should operate under the principle of least surprise and it clearly fails that.
However I was most interested in are a) what are the second order effect on the market, and b) how it might be used to our advantage.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:14:00 -
[11]
buy out, re list, win win
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I wasn't suggesting it's a bug as such, viewing it is a behavioural issue; though software workflows should operate under the principle of least surprise and it clearly fails that.
However I was most interested in are a) what are the second order effect on the market, and b) how it might be used to our advantage.
I bet it messes up market bots. If you set the lowest sell order 0.01isk above the highest buy order what would the bot do? Unless the programmers took this into account the default behavior might be to simply do a sell order 0.01isk below the lowest sell order ... which would then sell directly into the buy orders.
.... 
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:38:00 -
[13]
I hadn't seen this thread before it was linked today.
Here is why I sometimes happen to create orders like these:
If profit margin has narrowed to below a certain limit, I will often cut my (large) sell order price to something just below the top buy order price, to clear out my order and move on. This sometimes results in filling up the top 2-3 buy orders but leaving a portion of my sell order sitting there, not having bothered to calculate the exact numbers on the item. And also not bothering to wait the 5 minutes, I leave it to return later.
This could also happen if I was to decide to sell directly to current buy orders in the first place, I could be sloppy like that. And happens with buy orders as well.
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"Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cista2
Here is why I sometimes happen to create orders like these:
If profit margin has narrowed to below a certain limit, I will often cut my (large) sell order price to something just below the top buy order price, to clear out my order and move on. This sometimes results in filling up the top 2-3 buy orders but leaving a portion of my sell order sitting there, not having bothered to calculate the exact numbers on the item. And also not bothering to wait the 5 minutes, I leave it to return later.
Why don't you just cancel the order and click "Sell" a couple of times? This shouldn't take much longer in most cases, won't leave anything, and is harder to screw up (e.g. by forgetting a digit).
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Why don't you just cancel the order and click "Sell" a couple of times?
If I remember correctly that would cost me the sell order fee twice wouldn't it?
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"Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Why don't you just cancel the order and click "Sell" a couple of times?
If I remember correctly that would cost me the sell order fee twice wouldn't it?
No, the sales tax is paid the moment you actually make the sale; it's the broker fees that are paid up front.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.05.19 16:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
No, the sales tax is paid the moment you actually make the sale; it's the broker fees that are paid up front.
Sounds like if every time you set up an order you pay the broher fee upfront, then cancelling and making a new sale would then mean paying the fee twice.
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"Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
No, the sales tax is paid the moment you actually make the sale; it's the broker fees that are paid up front.
Sounds like if every time you set up an order you pay the broher fee upfront, then cancelling and making a new sale would then mean paying the fee twice.
You don't pay broker fees if you directly buy or sell from/to an order (simple trade window), only when you create a buy or sell order (advanced trade window).
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:31:00 -
[19]
The settings that pop up on the trade box changed default to advanced settings in many situations where the simple box popped up before.
I think its based on whether you last used simple or last used advanced and it goes to what you just used, saving you additional clicks of changing to advanced over and over again.
But that does present certain risks for the lazy or unaware.
You don't want to use the advanced box to buy thing at the price they are for sale for or use the advanced box to sell to the offered price.
If you do that you will pay broker fee's like you put up an order, not like you made a transaction and on top of that extra cost, as mentioned by others, it won't sell for all if you push ok with it set to the initial .01 above the best offer that it now gives you (i'm not sure why that price is helpful).
Before the simple box popped almost always popped up when selling something.
Moral of the story. Everytime you buy or sell things from the market instead of putting up an order you think will fill later, be sure you are on simple mode.
(i bought a expanded cargo bay for 600 million once.. I was rushing figuring it was just a small purchase it didn't need much attention)
Given the ease to mess up, on any order I do a three point check of the red/green % of market price (not accurate but it will still help you catch some), I click away from the box which inserts comma's in the price per item (if its and order not a simple/buy or sale) and third I check the total dollar amount of the transaction which still can be tricky in seeing, how many didgits it is in terms of thousands , millions or even billions (even without billions in your account, accidently putting up a simple item for sale for 35 billion instead of million will cost you 170 million in fees with a .5 broker fee.. and thas an amount that is in frequently in a main wallet.
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.21 16:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
But that does present certain risks for the lazy or unaware.
indeed it does, just picked up somebodies entire stock of an item (and some other similar items), 0.01 isk above highest buy order price.
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