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Kash Nirukhi
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:12:00 -
[1]
These days there's no use to subcaps anymore. The mothership has taken over the role of virtually any other ship. There is no way of countering these fleets except of a bigger blob of motherships. Is eve online becoming a mothership-only game?
So any suggestions?
should ccp nerf the cyno? (f.e. it needs 50 l.o. per ship jumping in, or it takes 10s per ship to jump in?)
Should ccp nerf the mothership? (f.e. give it a bomber-only role, increase the locking time, reduce the jump range, put a maximum on cap ships allowed in system? make the sig on fighters and bombers so big that they have no use to subcaps? like bs guns have no use to frigs? )
Feel free to discuss!
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Riddick Liddell
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:20:00 -
[2]
My prediction, bombers will be nerfed. |
Apocryphal Noise
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:21:00 -
[3]
Hmm, as a member of OWN alliance shouldn't you know that RUS Legion is currently fielding well over 200 supercaps?
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Iku
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:25:00 -
[4]
what about
-making cyno not instantly but something that has to build up first? like load for 30 sec before ppl can jump to it?
-make the l.o. requirement for the cyno depending on the amount and type of ships jumping to it, kinda like a jumpbridge?
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:31:00 -
[5]
Well this is certainly good to know, I will swap from roaming in frigs and dessies to using my Aeon solo.
I will now sell all my subcap junk.
Thanks for this valuable infoGTFO 
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Kash Nirukhi
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:34:00 -
[6]
@ Apocryphal Noise, any blob of supers, whether it is 50 or 200. i.m.h.o. is overpowered.
more suggestions, opinions plz! also if you feel this is not true, plz elaborate!
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:38:00 -
[7]
It has been like that for years now.
I don't think it will change much..
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:44:00 -
[8]
Increase dreadnought range and give them a bonus against super caps. Give them another high slot. Essentially create an anti super cap ship thats not so great against smaller ships.
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Martha Stewardess
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:45:00 -
[9]
Wants HICs to be able to carry a scrip that erects a 300km "no cynos here *****" bubble. Would be amazing.
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:49:00 -
[10]
IMO a way to balance supercaps is have them only be able to deploy fighter bombers and not other types of drones, not even regular fighters, that way they would be only good against other caps and would require some support
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:24:00 -
[11]
Please dont expect to win against 1 trillion isk worth of ships with only a billion.
Bring 1 trillion worth of battleships
or 1 trillion isk worth of super caps
or 1 trillion isk worth of carriers
or 1 trillion isk worth of dreadnaughts.
or 1 trillion isk worth of bc's.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:54:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Ludacrys
IMO a way to balance supercaps is have them only be able to deploy fighter bombers and not other types of drones, not even regular fighters, that way they would be only good against other caps and would require some support
ding ding ding
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Please dont expect to win against 1 trillion isk worth of ships with only a billion.
Bring 1 trillion worth of battleships
or 1 trillion isk worth of super caps
or 1 trillion isk worth of carriers
or 1 trillion isk worth of dreadnaughts.
or 1 trillion isk worth of bc's.
Why?
IRL If you put all you money into super carriers you would get owned in a big war.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Vicious OuTLaW
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Straight Edged
Please dont expect to win against 1 trillion isk worth of ships with only a billion.
Bring 1 trillion worth of battleships
or 1 trillion isk worth of super caps
or 1 trillion isk worth of carriers
or 1 trillion isk worth of dreadnaughts.
or 1 trillion isk worth of bc's.
I doubt a fleet of 1000 T2 fit machs would be able to win against a sc blob that is worth 1 tril.
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Fish Hunter
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Herrring
Originally by: Straight Edged
Please dont expect to win against 1 trillion isk worth of ships with only a billion.
Bring 1 trillion worth of battleships
or 1 trillion isk worth of super caps
or 1 trillion isk worth of carriers
or 1 trillion isk worth of dreadnaughts.
or 1 trillion isk worth of bc's.
I doubt a fleet of 1000 T2 fit machs would be able to win against a sc blob that is worth 1 tril.
I bet they would win, able to POP a SC in under 30 sec and disengage whenever they feel like it.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fish Hunter
I bet they would win, able to POP a SC in under 30 sec and disengage whenever they feel like it.
But only the shield ones :P
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.17 02:36:00 -
[17]
I predict fish hunter is somewhat right, 1000 machs (though it could be any BS with enough range) doing we'll say 1000 dps is 1M dps total. That's 12s to kill a hel, 25s to kill a nyx, 55-60s to kill an aeon. Of course the problem is the server dies if you actually try to do that. The server's limits are about 100 people on field, after that the game lags so hopelessly that it becomes a total craps shoot as to whether or not your mods will activate within a few seconds or a few minutes of when you tell them to. So from a practical standpoint, that just doesn't work. The other and far more important aspect is getting 1000 people who can field a properly fitted BS is next to impossible. Getting 50 SC's isn't that hard for most null sec alliances however.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Vicious OuTLaW
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Posted - 2011.05.17 03:14:00 -
[18]
I don't know how fighterbombers would do against machs, but wouldn't just fighters kill machs so fast it wouldn't matter?
or even just wardens.
if 50 supercaps fielded wardens, it would alpha a mach every 4 sec.
but i guess the caps wouldn't lock them fast enough
hm....
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.17 03:41:00 -
[19]
machs arent cost effective.
a trillion worth of machs will fall to 50% of that value of abaddons.
Now bring a trillion worth of armageddons and see if the supercaps gonna last long
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.05.17 03:52:00 -
[20]
A trillion worth of Rifters...
Well there would go CCP's precious server.
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Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Vicious OuTLaW
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Posted - 2011.05.17 03:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Straight Edged
machs arent cost effective.
a trillion worth of machs will fall to 50% of that value of abaddons.
Now bring a trillion worth of armageddons and see if the supercaps gonna last long
Yeah I was just trying to prove a point, since he was saying that if the price is equal than the strength will be the same.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.17 04:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
A trillion worth of Rifters...
Well there would go CCP's precious server.
The killmail generating server would be down for months from generating all the Rifter losses to officer smarties... 
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:55:00 -
[23]
With 1 trillion isk you can get maybe 60 supercarriers or 6.666 battleships (16 bil per SC, 150 mil per BS).
The BS would MELT the supercarriers in absolutely no time.
If you assume 600 dps on each BS, you get in total around 4 mil dps for the whole blob. Thus, you can kill a supercap every 10-15 seconds. After 5 minutes you have killed half the supercaps.
The supercaps though can't kill you that fast. The fighterbombers are not that useful against fast BS, fighters are too slow to kill the BS efficiently (remember, every 10 seconds a supercap gets killed), supercaps can't switch targets fast enough. Even if the SC's would kill 2 BS per second, you would still have 90% of the BS left after 5 minutes while only 50% of the SC would have survived until then.
No, the BS-blob would absolutely smash the SC's and is completely superior.
There are only two problems: 1) You don't get 6000+ people together for that. 2) The server would die horribly. |
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Straight Edged
machs arent cost effective.
a trillion worth of machs will fall to 50% of that value of abaddons.
Now bring a trillion worth of armageddons and see if the supercaps gonna last long
Good luck fielding enough battleship accounts to make it a realistic fight.
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:13:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 17/05/2011 06:14:57
**** don't your people need to pay the 6000 accounts? versus 60 accounts?
6000*350M versus 60*350m?
2.1 trillion VS 21 billion
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:18:00 -
[26]
Restrict number of supercaps to number of people in alliance divided by thousand. Done.
It's why Protoss only fields one Mothership in SC2. Six of em would be kinda ridiculous.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Restrict number of supercaps to number of people in alliance divided by thousand. Done.
It's why Protoss only fields one Mothership in SC2. Six of em would be kinda ridiculous.
Alt alliances would simply be made to house the supercaps. If you're already spending 20-80bil on your ship what's another 1bil for an alt alliance?
Also 6 motherships in sc2 would be useless, 2 might have a practical use (one moves the cloaked army out and the other warps em back if things go bad) but more than that would be a massive waste of rescources (as if its not already a waste fielding one :D ) |
Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.05.17 14:11:00 -
[28]
Oh how the discussion changes so easily...
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.17 14:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kash Nirukhi
Should ccp nerf the mothership?
Yes there will be a supercarrier nerf. The question is just when and how they will nerf it.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.17 14:28:00 -
[30]
Quote:
(as if its not already a waste fielding one :D )
Even with the nerf to archon toilet, still it is very effective with also for example colossi. Try PvP, use mothership vortex on protos army, in the time of mothership spread your colossi out arround the vortex (you have colossi since PvP is war of the worlds), proceed to decimate his army without losses.
Originally by: Straight Edged
Please dont expect to win against 1 trillion isk worth of ships with only a billion.
Bring 1 trillion worth of battleships
or 1 trillion isk worth of super caps
or 1 trillion isk worth of carriers
or 1 trillion isk worth of dreadnaughts.
or 1 trillion isk worth of bc's.
Sp what you are saying is that rookie ships are overpowered?
Balance by ISK cost is beyond ******ed. If I fit an estamel invuln field on my drake, should i be able to beat 100 t2 drakes? Balance primarily needs to be on a per ship base, not per ISK. ISK isnt really a factor and very expensive very good ships only promote botting. If you spend more ISK on a ship you should be more effective, but you should not be without counters on a per ship base, contrary what you have now with supers.
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