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Mnementh2231
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:42:00 -
[1]
Hey all,
A small possibly annoying question concerning Carriers in C4 Wormholes.
The Scenario:
I'm currently only doing frontier barracks at the moment, because I rather thoughtlessly warped into one of these sites one day, and just did it, no thought process beforehad. It wen't very smooth, the incoming DPS was no problem at all for my tank, and i only had to worry about the cruisers phwacking at my fighters, and that was mitigatable.
The Problem:
I have loads of Command Posts, and a couple info sanctum's in system, but I'm a bit cautious about doing them, because of all the tiny ships, and turrets, all of which present a problem to my fighters.
I'm Not worried about losing my carrier, because it's solid, but fighters are expensive and heavy, and I don't fancy flying them into the wormhole every other day.
Does anyone out there run these sites with a carrier? If so would you be willing to share your tactics with me?
I've thought about just throwing out the super expendable drones at those sites, but in all honesty, It'd take ages to do because I'd be flying about getting in drone range, and I'd rather not, but if that's the only way, it's the only way =3
Thanks all,
Meth
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Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada
Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.05.17 03:17:00 -
[2]
Fighters aren't going to be doing you much good against frigates/cruisers, and those are the things that love whacking fighters the most. As such, carry numerous light/medium/heavy/sentry drones (you get more than enough space by dropping 1 of the spare fighters from your bay), and just spam them at the frigs/cruisers, then unleash your fighters on the battleships. That, or if you're really impatient to use the fighters, unleash them on the cruisers. But clear the field of frigs first, as many as you can without totally screwing up the triggers.
This is all assuming of course that you know what you're doing with that carrier, and have a backup plan in case that hostile gang that manages to stumble into the WH one day decides to come for you.
-Arazel
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Test Build on 17/05/2011 05:15:29
You know you can use Heavy/Med/Light/Sentry drones too right?
I'm carrying 40+ of each type + Fighters.
Treat it like a big Domi...
Leave your fighters for Battleships and maybe cruisers, use other sizes for cruisers/frigs.
Here's a tip:
Wait until you've repped some damage. If you're armour tanked...this will take some time while you wait for them to get through your shields. Your repping generates 'threat' and will help keep **** off your drones. If you finish a site with armour damage don't rep it while warping to the next site. Turn your reppers off if there are only 1-2 BS left on the field. 'save' it to generate threat on the next site.
The frigs are normally on you really quickly, so you dont need super drone control range.
I tend to lose light drones a fair bit, maybe 1 or 2 a site, because there's ****all you can do about it if they get targetted.
If you have a cloak fitted..take it off, it's messing with your targetting time. It's the difference between being able to save a fighter and not.
Fit Sensor Boosters + Scan res scripts, you can target and RR fighters pretty easily with just 1 Booster+script, light drones you just can't save them if they are too far away from you, they can't be targetted in time.
STAY ALIGNED.
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Mnementh2231
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:29:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the quick responses guys :)
And yeah, sorry to sound noobish, I'm running a full odd assed assortment of drones as well as fighters.
Are sentry's worth keeping in the drone bay too?
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:33:00 -
[5]
RE Sentries:
No.
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Kerowyn's
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Posted - 2011.05.17 08:35:00 -
[6]
I use sentries all the time in a class 5, and all other size drones inc fighters.
When using sentries don't have your combat pilots sit on top of the carrier, I am assuming your providing remote rep and a web or painter goes a long way to helping both your combat pilots and your drones do damage.
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:26:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Kerowyn's
I use sentries all the time in a class 5, and all other size drones inc fighters.
When using sentries don't have your combat pilots sit on top of the carrier, I am assuming your providing remote rep and a web or painter goes a long way to helping both your combat pilots and your drones do damage.
And how do you stay aligned, at speed, and use sentries?
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tib0
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:31:00 -
[8]
Some time ago i red, that if you fit ECM on your ship and jam sleepers, you will be highest threat for them and they will constantly shoot you and not your drones...anyone c/d?
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Mr Majestyk
Combat and Recon
The Last Chancers.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: tib0
Some time ago i red, that if you fit ECM on your ship and jam sleepers, you will be highest threat for them and they will constantly shoot you and not your drones...anyone c/d?
Scorpions pull a crap ton of agro from sleepers.
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Kerowyn's
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Test Build
Originally by: Kerowyn's
I use sentries all the time in a class 5, and all other size drones inc fighters.
When using sentries don't have your combat pilots sit on top of the carrier, I am assuming your providing remote rep and a web or painter goes a long way to helping both your combat pilots and your drones do damage.
And how do you stay aligned, at speed, and use sentries?
Why would I need to when I observe proper hole control and at least two of us are both scanning with probes for new anoms and using directional for suprise secs.
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Kerowyn's
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: tib0
Some time ago i red, that if you fit ECM on your ship and jam sleepers, you will be highest threat for them and they will constantly shoot you and not your drones...anyone c/d?
It works to an extent, but have found in practice, that they do still switch targets.
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Mnementh2231
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Posted - 2011.05.17 21:42:00 -
[12]
I had very good luck running the Information Sanctum today, Just let my fighters take care of the cruisers/bs's, only had to rep a few from those, then pulled them back and let my drones have fun on the last wave with all the frigs, lost a few, but when it's just a t1 drone, who really cares?
Thanks for the tips everyone :)
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Substantia Nigra
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Posted - 2011.05.17 23:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Test Build
Also...if you're solo carrier doing this stuff. I really would advise against it ...
Thanks Test Build. As an almost-carrier-jockey I found your advice very informative. I do have a slight issue with the comment I've quoted above ... but to that after a couple questions if I may.
Questions.
- How many drones / fighters can a max-skill carrier run at one time? I see skills and modules that seem to increase that number but am not sure how they all work together. Will I be able to send ten fighters against those sleeper BSs? Do I need to fit modules to operate more than 5 fighters? Does the apparent >5 provision also apply to my ogres and other non-fighter drones?
- Does allocating fighters to another fleet member remove them from my count? So, if I pass 5 fighters to a fleet buddy does that free up another 5 fighter slots that I can use, or do they still count against my maximum?
- any carrier significantly better than others? Had been looking towards gallente, mainly because of drone space, but am now wondering about the caldari. We mainly run shield tanking ships with vulture-based siege fleet boosts, so I was thinking the chimera might be a better choice. Minmatar / caldari / gallente are all equal training time away .... BS IV => V.
Comment.
Solo operation of expensive ships in w-space is only a major risk if you're not careful. We have been not careful enough in the past and have donated some very expensive ships to space dust. Now we're pretty careful, and try be patient enough to wait a day to gather isk if conditions are not right.
Stuff we do now, to reduce the risk of being jumped and ganked:
- We operate primarily in our home system, and we only operate away from our POSes (except some PI) when the system is secure ... with no active wormholes.
- We always have a scanner / scout with a deep space probe deployed and his interface set to ignore all the known structures, ships, sigs, and anoms. He scans regularly and whenever a new cosmic signature appears we suspend operations and take a rest at a POS, while he checks it out. If it's a WH we cancel ops and focus our attention on the WH. If it's grav / ladar / mag / radar we BM it and resume our ops.
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Ashurmija
Caldari
Hysterically Unforgiving
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.18 05:26:00 -
[14]
Interesting, Everyone I have talked to and every thread I have read says using a carrier in WH's is stupid and suicide :/ sense when did this change??
Don't feed the troll's.... I won't want my eyes to have to pick up after em.. |
Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 07:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Test Build on 18/05/2011 07:55:06
Max Skill, as in Carrier 5 is 10 Drones be they light/med/heavy or fighter. Or a combination of all of them. A drone is a drone.
+ however many Drone Control Units you care to use. DCU's require a level of Adv Drone Interfacing per module. So theoretically 15 all up. (you cant fit 5 DCU with ADI 3 for example) well you can fit them...you just cant turn them on...
Allocating fighters to squad members...I dont know for sure if it removes them from your count, but I would suspect that they do not.
In a C4 you're not getting reps from fleet, maybe energy. A dual rep thanny has overwhelming tank for all sites in a C4, you may never even turn the second one on, depending what your fleet DPS is like. (Armour comps 5 here...YMMV)
Your ship bonuses are what counts, shield and armour transfer bonuses. Thanatos has those. Nidhoggur as well, and also has transfer amount + range. I've never used a Nidhoggur..maybe they are awesome.
All the ships have minor differences, and I'm not going to pretend I know whats right for you. The Thanny is a pretty safe bet for all occasions however. IIRC you only transfer the +drone damage bonus if you're on grid with them.
Drone Space...
They are 4k per fighter, you can have a max of 15 out at once. So 60k...
I think I carry 18. 12 Firbolg, 6 Enjir..or whatever they are called. For the damage spread should I be required to fend off heavy tacklers. The rest of the space is used for Hobs/Hammers/Warriors.
I would suggest sticking to armour local tank, you need your mids for other stuff. ECCM and sensor booster(s). If you can't maintain a lock, I'm talking pvp here, your fleet members are done. A single sensor damp and a falcon/scorp can really ruin your day.
Also if you're currently packing a triage mod fitted, I'd probably take that off as well. You don't need it while running Ops, and if you're jumped, activating it is just like saying 'well I'm going to see how much ammo you brought vs how much stront I'm carrying'.
Save the triage for when your only purpose is POS repair.
Oh yeah....triage doesnt make you immune to Neuts. Neuts are bad. Blaaghorns are the devil.
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:02:00 -
[16]
OH yeah...Fighters 5 I know it's a bloody long skill, but 20% is awesome.
Do it after you have all your other stuff sorted out.
You'll be quite comfortable with carrier 4 fighters 4 until you're happy with all your support skills.
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ashurmija
Interesting, Everyone I have talked to and every thread I have read says using a carrier in WH's is stupid and suicide :/ sense when did this change??
Carriers are just rediculously good logistics platforms. The options it provides just can't be ignored.
If you're using one in a C2 or 3, I would question your sanity. To do C4 with say a Tengu the price is actually cheaper. You're going to need an expensive fit on that T3 to make it work. With the Neut changes, I'm not sure it could even be done anymore.
But for a similar price (1.5B) you can run a carrier with all its goodies as opposed to a T3 and have no isses, no butt puckering moments, it's less work than a lvl 4 mission.
Remember this is for as 'solo' as you can. Meaning you running solo or with multiple clients, but still only 1 operator.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:30:00 -
[18]
Tengu has a better chance to get away, though. Also, people won't leave scouts in your system to get your tengu another day, but they will do that for a capital kill.
Imho, anyone who flies a carrier solo is severely abusing a great ship and needs to be forcibly relieved of its control asap. A carrier is a logistics fleet ship, not a damage dealer or ratting platform.
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood
Tengu has a better chance to get away, though. Also, people won't leave scouts in your system to get your tengu another day, but they will do that for a capital kill.
Imho, anyone who flies a carrier solo is severely abusing a great ship and needs to be forcibly relieved of its control asap. A carrier is a logistics fleet ship, not a damage dealer or ratting platform.
Meh...aligned is aligned, I would also argue that at a top speed of ~100ms I'm not likely to outrange the site spawns before it's over.
You play internet spaceships the way you want, I'll play it the way I want. I fit 2 shield transfer units. Does that meet with your requirements?
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Substantia Nigra
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:10:00 -
[20]
Thanks Test. Some really useful thoughts there ... and the evelopaedia page on carriers also has further useful stuff for us almost wannabe types.
I think you're right also Floyd, and what you say seems wise ... but hell that ain't gonna stop us building and flying a carrier in our system :-)
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:16:00 -
[21]
I'm very happy about that, since I'm still waiting for the first chance to kill one of those solo carriers  We had some near misses already, but someday soon it will hopefully work out 
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ResponseWriteGoodbye
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:44:00 -
[22]
Since i've yet to see the BS that spawn when you land a capital in a WH anom, how hard are they really?
Just a matter of how much dps is to be expected from your usual C4 site + extra BS.
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Kerowyn's
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:55:00 -
[23]
There ain't any escalations in any class other than 5 or 6, but those I have seen couple volley a shield buffer fit bs into armour, approx 20k shield at 70%+ resists across the board.
The person in question was not happy I happened to look away for sec whilst running the carrier repping the group 
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ResponseWriteGoodbye
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:57:00 -
[24]
Fair enough.
I was under the impression that the triggered spawn occurred in any class of WH.
Thanks :)
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ResponseWriteGoodbye
Since i've yet to see the BS that spawn when you land a capital in a WH anom, how hard are they really?
Just a matter of how much dps is to be expected from your usual C4 site + extra BS.
You don't get cap escalation spawns in a C4.
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Test Build
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:26:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Test Build on 18/05/2011 17:35:15
Since it's 3am here and I have no chance of sleeping, here's some other tips that you'll wish you remembered.
Use the Corp hangar wisely, as in:
Work out your POS repair fitting and store that in the carrier.
Armour, Shield and HULL (dont forget hull) transfers, whatever you don't have fitted fulltime should be in the hangar. Hull transfers you can give to someone else and have them run around in something faster to get the slivers of hull on incapped POS mods done.
There's not much room for spare Capital sized mods, but the sooner you can get the POS shield back up, the more help you can get from others.
You're going to probably need cap recharge mods as well. Relays and rechargers.
Don't forget the triage module.
You could always keep this stuff in a hauler, in your POS ship maint array, too.
Point being it needs to not be in a POS Corp Hangar Array.
Keep spare pvp ammo for your squaddies. People thinking of ganking your carrier using firbolgs + 2x Tengu are going to fit for kinetic/therm. If they left a resist hole...you need to find it. Packing spare EM/Exp ammo is a good idea (I think). Scrams/Webs probably not a bad idea either.
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