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Skip Southpaw
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:41:00 -
[1]
From a casual players perspective you really do need alts these days. I hate it, I came to EVE in '03 to escape DAoC buffbotting. I quit EVE a few times over the years and sure enough got the itch again just as many times, now on Skip I find the game has become infested with alt accounts to the point where you can't 'solo' without them.
No, I don't want to join a corp. I don't have the time to loaf about all night waiting for smallgangs to happen. I don't want to fill some kind of corp activity quotum, and I can do without the politics. I know I'm whining here, eh. I just miss the days when you could log on, hop into your light neutron Gankrax and just have fun, going out in a blaze of glory.
Metagaming has turned EVE into a gigantic chore. There comes a point where, in order to compete, you have to jump through a few too many hoops.. you can only take "adapt or die" so far.
- Skip. |
Doctor Deals
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:52:00 -
[2]
Can i have your stuff?
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IskPlease
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:52:00 -
[3]
More accounts=more $ for CCP.
Is it that surprising that game mechanics that promote multiboxing/multiple people get put in?
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:53:00 -
[4]
Ya, its really not a game that is for those that dont have extended periods of time to play the game without interruption (or very little interruption).
Its one of my beefs with the game too, which is why I wormhole with my various alts.
I did try a C6 with an alliance for a while, but it was frustratingly the same:
Me: "Ok, Im on. Anything happening?"
Alliance: "...."
Me: "Anything happening? Is this thing on?"
Alliance: "We're playing world of tanks. The other guy is scanning, maybe we'll collapse the hole in a few hours, maybe not'
Me: "Well I really only have 2 hours max here, then I have to get stuff done in r/l."
Alliance:" "Well we really wont be doing much over the next couple of hours, come on later"
Me:"I have to go to bed later, I get up at 6 am to work."
Alliance:"Ok well cya later"
Rinse and repeat. Of course PvP was a little different:
Alliance: "We have a target 12 systems over, lets form up a fleet"
Me:"Ok Im ready to go, let's go"
Alliance:"We're waiting for X person to get here." or "We dont have an FC."
2 hours later
Alliance:"Ok we're ready to go."
Me:"I gotta log off, gotta work tomorrow."
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:00:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Skip Southpaw
From a casual players perspective you really do need alts these days.
That's news to me. I don't NEED any alts. I hardly use my main, actually. 
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Skip Southpaw
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:01:00 -
[6]
Mithrasith, different kettle of fish. What you're doing is taking too big a slice of the pie. Wormholes, like most things in EVE are scaled - they can be done solo just fine, you don't need the alts.
I know full well that my argument doesn't hold up in the real world. Greed = decline in gameplay quality, this **** is going on in MMO's across the board. But I will have my nostalgia induced whine, damn you!
- Skip. |
IskPlease
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Skip Southpaw
From a casual players perspective you really do need alts these days.
That's news to me. I don't NEED any alts. I hardly use my main, actually.
I guess some people just like to pay that monthly sub for the forums alone.
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Rion Deteisan
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Skip Southpaw
From a casual players perspective you really do need alts these days.
That's news to me. I don't NEED any alts. I hardly use my main, actually.
Haha, my alt has become my main.
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Skip Southpaw
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: IskPlease
I guess some people just like to pay that monthly sub for the forums alone.
I paid a Planetside sub for over a year for that very reason. 
- Skip. |
Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Skip Southpaw
Mithrasith, different kettle of fish. What you're doing is taking too big a slice of the pie. Wormholes, like most things in EVE are scaled - they can be done solo just fine, you don't need the alts.
I know full well that my argument doesn't hold up in the real world. Greed = decline in gameplay quality, this **** is going on in MMO's across the board. But I will have my nostalgia induced whine, damn you!
Not really. Its pretty much the same. I lived in Null sec for a couple of years, and while it is a different set of requirements, the situation is still the same.
Me: "Y0, what's up dudes?" (cause we said that more in 2005-6 than we do now)
Alliance:"CTA, get your a*s in fleet"
Me:"Dude, I only have a couple of hours"
Corp sets the tax rate to 100%
Alliance: "We dont care, get in fleet now"
Spend the next 2 hours forming up.
Me:"I gotta log off, time for bed/work/sleep"
Dont even get me started o nthe time it takes for logistics purposes. Moving ships down to 0.0 for combat, getting gear sorted etc. I bought a bloody JF for that very reason which gathers dust in a hanger.
So where does that leave me in 0.0? It takes 3 hours or so to run a high end complex, maybe more than 3 hours in some cases depending on the plex.
In short, its just not a game that's viable for those of us that have a small amount of time available.
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Chandaris
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mithrasith
In short, its just not a game that's viable for those of us that have a small amount of time available.
It never was.
Solo PVP in lowsec is the best suggestion I have for you. Join a corp that is solo PVP friendly
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2011 19:05:07
Originally by: IskPlease
I guess some people just like to pay that monthly sub for the forums alone.
You mean, buy a PLEX with ISK each month ? 
There's plenty of things a casual player with a single character (not even single account, single character) can do to enjoy the game.
OBVIOUSLY, he's not going to be able to do ALL the things, or at least, not well, but that's a different story.
0.0 PvP is hardly the only point of the game.
Heck, even allowing for the PvP centric nature of EVE, ship-to-ship PvP as a whole is hardly the only point of PvP, let alone the entire game.
...
Let me put it this way : when you started playing the game called "RL", you probably wanted to be a fighter pilot or a brain surgeon or a movie star, since they seem to get all the glory. You soon realized that maybe, just maybe, that's not really for you, and you should enjoy the things you CAN do.
Yes, RL analogies are in general pretty "fail", but them's the breaks...
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:31:00 -
[13]
Y'know what I genuinely miss. Weekend long sieges of solar systems with massive fleets of dreads. See our alliance would form up at a scheduled time for a set time, do things, and then, wait for the next scheduled thing.
Why not find an alliance that does that so you can live your super busy life AND play eve?
If you can't well... then roaming 0.0 gangs in a fail disorganized alliance / corp isn't for you.
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Ioci
Gallente
Morrigna Order
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Skip Southpaw
Mithrasith, different kettle of fish. What you're doing is taking too big a slice of the pie. Wormholes, like most things in EVE are scaled - they can be done solo just fine, you don't need the alts.
I know full well that my argument doesn't hold up in the real world. Greed = decline in gameplay quality, this **** is going on in MMO's across the board. But I will have my nostalgia induced whine, damn you!
I have alts up the ying yang. It isn't that I want to push people like you out of the game. I just don't find EVE entertaining enough with one character. never did really. |
Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:04:00 -
[15]
Bah you dont need alts, sure they help but duh of course they do. I played this game without an alt until what half a year ago and i had a blast :)
As for the poster complaining about corps, get into a better one plenty that DONT work how you described.
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Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.17 21:42:00 -
[16]
You can't blame Eve Online for your subjective experience.
Other posts in here also point out the same thing that happens in other MMOGs where people complain there are no groups. You ask them if they make the groups themselves or so they sit around with their LFG tag or announcing they are LFG while other people are doing the same.
LTFC.
Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.05.17 22:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
There's plenty of things a casual player with a single character (not even single account, single character) can do to enjoy the game.
OBVIOUSLY, he's not going to be able to do ALL the things, or at least, not well, but that's a different story.
0.0 PvP is hardly the only point of the game.
Heck, even allowing for the PvP centric nature of EVE, ship-to-ship PvP as a whole is hardly the only point of PvP, let alone the entire game.
Right, for the casual player with maybe 5 hours a week PVP is hardly the only point of the game. Actually, it's such a small point of the game as to be ridiculously not the point of the game. No, with 5 hours a week a player will grind 3 hours for every hour of PVP. And I think that's being kind. PVP ships? Are you kidding? With people pvping in 6bil isk vindi's, not including implants and boosters, it gets a little hard to compete, at all. I've done the casual play. The casual mining. The casual missioning. The casual exploring. The casual trading. And the casual putzing around. The reality is that it's a whole lotta casual nothing much fun. The game only really gets interesting after you get out of hisec and setup a POS somewhere in null/lo/w-space. And for the love of God, don't tell me you can casually setup a POS when it takes the better part of a day just to get it up and online the G.damned modules. Then there's management, grinding for fuel......ah nm. I already know what you're going to say or at least the gist of it.
Akita, I know I'm not the only one that feels this game, the fun fun parts of it, are beyond the casual player save for the rare circumstances. The alt situation is a symptom of the overall problem, bot related or not. The overall problem is an acute and lengthy delayed gratification which I will admit does need to be in the game, yet somehow it needs to be reduce for some aspects. At the least CCP seriously needs to consider some no-cost, no-gain instant action. Instant action that will fill the hours waiting for something to happen, waiting to make something happen, waiting to form a fleet which an above poster did not exaggerated at a couple of hours. Sisi is not that solution. Sisi effectively removes the player from the social aspect of the game. I crank up a FPS when I'm waiting for things to happen. That's just bad for CCP where most other people are concerned. CCP needs to fill that void.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.17 23:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr Kidd
The game only really gets interesting after you get out of hisec and setup a POS somewhere in null/lo/w-space.
[...]the fun fun parts of it are beyond the casual player save for the rare circumstances
Well, the only thing we can possibly agree regarding matters of entertainment is that everybody has different tastes about what "is fun" to them - although I would concede that your definition of "fun" probably fits many more people than my definition of "fun".
For me and quite a few others, whatever's already available to the casual player is "fun enough". But could it be more fun ? Obviously, always, but that's a different story.
Quote:
The overall problem is an acute and lengthy delayed gratification which [...] needs to be reduce for some aspects.
At the least CCP seriously needs to consider some no-cost, no-gain instant action. Instant action that will fill the hours waiting for something to happen, waiting to make something happen, waiting to form a fleet which an above poster did not exaggerated at a couple of hours. Sisi is not that solution.
Whenever an arena-like proposal is made, almost everybody screams and shouts and curses and whatnot else. Sure, it's not quite "no cost", but it's close enough.
I am certainly not one of those opposing something like that, I would completely welcome a system that ADDS consensual PvP to the massively otherwise nonconsensual PvP we have now, with rules which would be enforced by the system itself, so that they're as good as guaranteed to not fall prey to human error (player, not dev).
Think of it as permanently running automated alliance tournaments, but open to everybody, and with prizes fully funded by participants in a negative-sum game.
In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that the game should even have a "combat simulator" service, which could be used both for pure entertainment or also as a subset of the arena system.
Basically, most of the type of fun you can have on SiSi, but on TQ, and with added incentives to actually compete, not just muck around. Or in other words, the above arena system, but with even less of an entry barrier (some nominal "simulator time" fees) but minimal gains (unless you charge an additional tournament entry fee on top of the sim-fee, to be distributed to the winner).
Then again, like I said... would be nice to have, but I don't exactly feel it is urgently needed.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Aeronwen Carys
Empire of Dust
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Posted - 2011.05.18 03:02:00 -
[19]
If you want pvp, and you only have 5 hours a week, then EVE is not the game for you. Never was, never will be. Go play COD or WOT.
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Herrring
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Vicious OuTLaW
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Posted - 2011.05.18 04:05:00 -
[20]
If you want instant action pvp, join fw.
Thats the only reason I had a character in the militia until i had to use that character to dec someone.
There are plenty of people looking to fight within a small number of systems, so it is a lot easier than roaming around looking for a fight in other systems.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.05.18 04:16:00 -
[21]
Would you play soccer alone?
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Lidia Prince
Caldari
Caldari Aegis
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Posted - 2011.05.18 04:35:00 -
[22]
I thought I'm the only one who thinks that multiboxing is kinda ruining the game, killing a large piece of MMO part, limition social interactions to corps, fleet battles and gangs. Plus, changing the definition of "soloing" missions, lol. But sadly, IskPlease said it:
Originally by: IskPlease
More accounts=more $ for CCP.
Like it or not (though I'm pretty sure that ~95% of multiboxers pay via ISK)
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:02:00 -
[23]
In the end someone pays real money for every account. And yeah I truly think that without alts eve would be a much better game, more consequences to actions for example. Now I realise it is impossible to prevent someone from using several accounts, but now eve is going more and more the opposite way, more and more forcing people to use several accounts.
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Captain J Planet
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:24:00 -
[24]
Eh, my alt accounts these days just handle cap/supercap work really. If I left the sov. game tomorrow I could play on a single account without much issue. I don't know what you think you're missing out on as a "solo," player with just one account, but it's likely all in your head.
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Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:35:00 -
[25]
They only reason I have alts is so that I can train combat, capital, and fleet support ships at the same time.
I can't heal stupid
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Completely UnAmused
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Posted - 2011.05.18 06:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Skip Southpaw
Originally by: IskPlease
I guess some people just like to pay that monthly sub for the forums alone.
I paid a Planetside sub for over a year for that very reason.
hahah, funny that you mention Planetside. As much as I hate how the game has been run over the years, the manner in which the game works really makes for an MMO where pvp is the mainstay, yet avoids the problems with eve pvp. You can log in and either find your corp/outfit mates and go kill stuff, or you can find players on the same side that are running a squad and join them until corp/outfitmates come on. If you decide not to do that you can still run about killing stuff without having to rely on anyone else as you are still able to create small fights, which was done on a normal basis, or be part of the zerg,yet not have to deal with anyone else unless you wanted to.
There was no need to wait for an FC, no need to worry about losing expensive ships that cost you a lot of time and effort. No need to worry that there was going to be 100 other players all waiting to kill you when you turn the corner, heck, some like myself hoped there would be a swarm..but if you died, no sweat.
few people had alt accounts as there was no point, it was hard to run two accounts at the same time. Also, any intel you gathered didn't mean to much as there were far fewer targets there then the thousands possible in eve(that require huge numbers of ships to destroy/capture). I like the idea of losing stuff for good in eve, but it also hinders pvp and creates a mindset that someone needs 100 accounts.
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Brooker Plaid
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:25:00 -
[27]
Combat Simulators 
back on topic now pls |
Neamus
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Posted - 2011.05.18 08:34:00 -
[28]
Well you can either quit, because honestly it sounds like you'd be happier in a single player RPG than an MMO. Or you could do something totally outrageous like join RvB or FW.
Oh but wait.. instead of doing, well anything really, you've decided to forum whine instead. Yep that'll teach us.
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chaosyourgod
Minmatar
Virtual Warriors
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2011.05.18 10:42:00 -
[29]
ya'know what? i am so ****ed off with ppl who want other ppl to make their entertainment for them, is it not easy enough just to say "i wanna frig roam, lets frig roam i'll be fc, everyone who wants some fun, get in the wing 1 channel" ffs its not a hard thing to do it doesn't take alot of time(for proper engagements yes it does but thats something else.
point is make your own fun and other ppl will follow you... unless they're all afk, ****heads, etc etc
the truth is but a lie |
Satsujinn
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder
Would you play soccer alone?
More to the point, would YOU play soccer if you got to the playing ground and wanted a game only to find the rest of your team were sitting around playing Zelda on their 3DS.
You WANT to play soccer - dressed to play soccer (spend time with ur mates etc) but the apathy that is the alliances these days is EXACTLY as the OP reports it.
So what do you end up doing? Playing soccer alone.
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