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Gallente needs serious re balancing

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kxdan Gallente UK Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.17 19:16:00 - [1] Ive been focused on Gallente ever since i started eve , i try to fly the ships when i can but after being with them for a while and in numerous pvp battles I've started to realise they really are useless, the railguns are worse than firing peas at the enemy and they get owned by arties , the drones aren't capable enough , and the blasters were great , before the speed nerf. now they just get annihilated by auto cannons which use no cap so thats another plus for them . as much as i try sub capital Gallente just doesn't cut it . and with the blasters you will get annihilated before you get in range for instance , if a brutix or a drake were speeding towards your gang which would you shoot first? obviously the brutix are there any other Gallente people out there that see this? thanks for reading kx I am prepared to meet my maker , whether my maker is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
Maz3r Rakum Gallente The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.05.17 19:50:00 - [2] you are right. go ahead and cross train to angel ships / minnmatar. ccp ****ing hates gallente
Rumplefink	Posted - 2011.05.17 19:56:00 - [3] You will be happy when the rail/blaster boost comes. Soon.
Precisionist	Posted - 2011.05.17 19:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Rumplefink You will be happy when the rail/blaster boost comes. Soon. Any links to the above statement.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:13:00 - [5] Originally by: kxdan the blasters were great , before the speed nerf Not really, but they still where at least not utterly pointless for skilled pvp like they became with QR. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Larofeticus The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:14:00 - [6] If you try to fit and fly gallente ships like any other race then yes of course you are going to fail. It takes a completely different approach and mindset to get yourself into fights you can win while also avoiding surprises, but it can definitely work.
Captain J Planet	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:25:00 - [7] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: kxdan the blasters were great , before the speed nerf Not really, but they still where at least not utterly pointless for skilled pvp like they became with QR. They got shat on with QR, but if you're suggesting gallente were not fotm before that you're insane.
Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:38:00 - [8] ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
kxdan Gallente UK Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:46:00 - [9] Anyone got any ideas how Ccp could balance gallant and make them better (if they ever get round to it) I am prepared to meet my maker , whether my maker is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.05.17 20:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Captain J Planet They got shat on with QR, but if you're suggesting gallente were not fotm before that you're insane. Actually, I remember blasters being as irrelevant as missiles right before QR, because everything was nanoed and blasters could never get in range.

Kelio Rift Caldari FREE GATES HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2011.05.17 21:51:00 - [11] As many times as before, the problem is not with blasters but with the ships that use them. Slow, bulky, and not to mention acceleration. Blasters are blasters... if you increase their range, they won't be blasters anymore. Increase the gallente blasterboat agility/acceleration, and wham! you got a nice pain wrecker. Other than that, blasterboats are quite a hell of a pain, only chance for the enemy boat is when it gets support like RR or ECM. Oh, and remember, never be an idiot and doN't let yourself get kited. Either switch targets or disengage (let alone the few situations when GTFO is not an option, find some more squishy targets before you go down). "In a living body, a dead, senseless soul floats, waiting for death, yet cannot laugh..."
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.05.17 21:51:00 - [12] i belive its got alot to do with cap. look at the trends: plated domi/mega, active hyper/domi (dual injectors), active myrm (dual/tripple reps again with dual injectors), brutix good gank nothing else often has sheilds - lol local reps without ganglinklove, any rail platform needs rechargers or injectors. add to this the low agiliy and top speed of armor rigged/plated ships sucks ALOT of mwd juice to get to range when using blasters, this is all a recipy for being left floating in space seconds after being able to actually put out the "super dps" which btw isnt all that super imo.
Centus Commander	Posted - 2011.05.17 21:58:00 - [13] We Know
Kelio Rift Caldari FREE GATES HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2011.05.17 22:05:00 - [14] Edited by: Kelio Rift on 17/05/2011 22:06:02 Originally by: Dr Fighter "super dps" which btw isnt all that super imo. Well, DPS that a Thanatos and a Scimitar cannot keep a Tempest alive is something you need to notice... imo. But in cap terms you are right. The lack of acceleration is why you need 3 cycles from your MWD to near your MWD top speed (BS class). "In a living body, a dead, senseless soul floats, waiting for death, yet cannot laugh..."
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.05.17 22:10:00 - [15] Quote: if a brutix or a drake were speeding towards your gang which would you shoot first? obviously the brutix You need to choose a better example. Stop flying the horrible ships. Stick to dominix, ishtar. They are excellent ships, both if they choose DPS, or if they choose utility.
Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov	Posted - 2011.05.18 11:56:00 - [16] Edited by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov on 18/05/2011 11:57:14 Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: if a brutix or a drake were speeding towards your gang which would you shoot first? obviously the brutix You need to choose a better example. Stop flying the horrible ships. Stick to dominix, ishtar. They are excellent ships, both if they choose DPS, or if they choose utility. The Brutix is a horrible ship? That's news to me. I've seen them used very successfully - i.e. when they're not being EHP (fail) tanked, and are making use of their quite effective armour rep bonus. The Brutix's main flaws are it's cap hunger (so always fit cap booster) and the inherent problem all Gallente blaster ships have: getting in range to apply their damage.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.05.18 13:25:00 - [17] ill fly myrm and ishtar over brutix any day
Julius Foederatus	Posted - 2011.05.18 14:05:00 - [18] My thoughts on Gallente rebalancing. bumps welcome
Teh Scout	Posted - 2011.05.18 14:43:00 - [19] Edited by: Teh Scout on 18/05/2011 14:43:56 Originally by: Precisionist Originally by: Rumplefink You will be happy when the rail/blaster boost comes. Soon. Any links to the above statement. Here ya go.
Batelle -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.05.18 15:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Teh Scout Edited by: Teh Scout on 18/05/2011 14:43:56 Originally by: Precisionist Any links to the above statement. Here ya go. --------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

NoNah	Posted - 2011.05.18 15:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Julius Foederatus My thoughts on Gallente rebalancing. bumps welcome Terrible troll. =( Parrots, commence! Postcount: 390285
Noisrevbus	Posted - 2011.05.18 18:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Teh Scout Here ya go. Heh, 10/10 . As for the actual topic, the main distinguisher between Gallente (and Caldari) to Minmatar (and Amarr) is the amount of popular ships, and the two forementioned could- and probably will- get some nudges of love soon. However, most of the problems identified in the majority of these topics on this forum are completely wrong and the suggested solutions are heavy handed, unimaginative and horrible. Drones are fairly well balanced, even though there will be popularity issues as long as it remains a potentially powerful weapon system balanced by being cumbersome to use. That kind of limit the ships to ideal conditions and players that make their most to bring the best out of the system. There are however both numbers and examples to support that there are alot of things that could be done with drones in their current form, that does not simply see widespread use. The Drone platforms also tend to have alot of options in versatile setups and thanks to their drones, very thankful fitting options. The Hybrid platforms are a bit more of a tricky thing while it still share some similarity in symptoms as well (where utility should be a factor, but cumber limit their potential). You don't need better webs, you don't need a vast increase in damage or mobility and i have still yet to see a proper analysis of overall tracking issues (i've asked for it several times when the topic has come up, but any math-oriented poster have yet to oblige me with details). The main problem with all Hybrids and their respective platforms remain that fitting issues ensure that players can not bring the most out of the ships. Many of the respective ships are made to optionally support active or passive (read: buffered) tanks with slot allocation for several utility modules. However, almost all of the platforms have issues supporting those utility slots and/or the conventional modules of respective size. You often see those ships leaving slots open, downgrading weapons or dropping modules down an entire bracket (eg., having to choose frigate-sized modules, on their cruiser hulls). In that sense they share that outline of "utility, to bridge raw numbers" with Minmatar ships, who rarely have to downgrade anything to support all their slots. Add to that a conflicting array of bonuses on several ships, with range bonuses to extreme short or extreme long range weapons, range bonuses combined with tank bonuses or utility bonuses unsupported by slots or fitting on the ship. However, conclusions you often see paraded around like "Gallente ships are slow" or "plates don't work on short-ranged ships, or active-bonused ships", "they don't do enough damage" or "they can't track anything" remain completely wrong. It's probably very difficult for a developer to base anything around unsupported or even disproven claims.
RavenPaine	Posted - 2011.05.18 19:50:00 - [23] I want to point out to the OP that a Brutix should not be compared to a Drake. It's counter part is the Ferox.. The reason you dont primary Drakes is because of tank vs DPS. So yeah, Cyclones, Ferox's, Brutix's, every other BC will die first if possible. Also, Primaries are chosen by range often, which also excludes most drakes.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.05.18 20:10:00 - [24] Originally by: RavenPaine I want to point out to the OP that a Brutix should not be compared to a Drake. It's counter part is the Ferox.. This argument gets thrown around a lot, and is pretty much always wrong, for a few reasons: 1) They're both BCs. We don't pull that tier crap when comparing BS, and even cruisers tend to ignore it, so why is it such a big deal for BCs? By that logic you can't compare the different races HACs, because they're based on different tiered ships (eagle based off the tier 3 moa, cerb based off the tier 2 caracal for example) 2)You have to look at the roles these ships fill, rather than exactly what the ship itself is. This is the main reason why the diemost is so terribad, it's a HAC whose main role is close range brawling, when the brutix does the exact same thing for 10% of the cost. Until people start making tier 1 only BC gangs (for reasons other than comedy) tier 1 BCs and tier 2 BCs fill EXACTLY the same niches in eve, so you have to compare them all to each other. The example I tend to use here to drive this point home is the velator. It is much, MUCH better than the other rookie frigs, and in a 1 on 1 would mop the floor with any of them (and in gangs as well). This does NOT make it a good ship, because any role/fleet that you could use a velator in, a regular frigate would always be better, hence the velator, despite being the best rookie frig, is still a bad ship. The same applies to BCs, tier 1 BCs fit into the same gangs as tier 2, so the 2 must be compared assuming that they are, for all intents and purposes, the same ship class.
Zan Shiro	Posted - 2011.05.18 23:25:00 - [25] Originally by: kxdan Anyone got any ideas how Ccp could balance gallant and make them better (if they ever get round to it) only ifx I cna think of is the one ccp won't do. Gallente looks at caldari and goes I wants the rokh range. Caldari looks at gallente and goes..mmmm tracking and damage bonuses (drone bay large enough to fit more than 5 mediums be nice too). If they both got what they wanted, ccp would wreck thier attempt to have each race be different. Easiset fix for this, also a pita, is to find a new type of more instant hit gun based weapons system for caldari's gun boats. Would get caldair off of hybrids, then ccp could give gallente a range bonus with them not basically being armour tanked rokhs. Problem is...pulling from sci fi they are running out of weapons. Off top of my head plasma weapons (not in the lore of caldari...also then has them being pseudo amarr) or say shuriken cannons from warhammer 40K only thing left. Not in any way endorsing caldari shooting ninjya stars throgh space lol
Elesaar Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.18 23:34:00 - [26] faction ships are the best ships
Swynet	Posted - 2011.05.19 10:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Rumplefink You will be happy when the rail/blaster boost comes. Soon. Not grieving dev's but once they say they are aware about the Gallente/hybrids stuff and will take a close look at the right time, expect from now one or two years before something happens. For the meanwhile train Minmatar hulls, Auto's Arty's this will leave you 1 or 2 years of fun instead of pain.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.19 12:23:00 - [28] Edited by: The Djego on 19/05/2011 12:26:45 Originally by: Noisrevbus The Hybrid platforms are a bit more of a tricky thing while it still share some similarity in symptoms as well (where utility should be a factor, but cumber limit their potential). You don't need better webs, you don't need a vast increase in damage or mobility and i have still yet to see a proper analysis of overall tracking issues (i've asked for it several times when the topic has come up, but any math-oriented poster have yet to oblige me with details). The main problem with all Hybrids and their respective platforms remain that fitting issues ensure that players can not bring the most out of the ships. Many of the respective ships are made to optionally support active or passive (read: buffered) tanks with slot allocation for several utility modules. However, almost all of the platforms have issues supporting those utility slots and/or the conventional modules of respective size. You often see those ships leaving slots open, downgrading weapons or dropping modules down an entire bracket (eg., having to choose frigate-sized modules, on their cruiser hulls). In that sense they share that outline of "utility, to bridge raw numbers" with Minmatar ships, who rarely have to downgrade anything to support all their slots. Hm, sounds like you work for CCP, nobody else could be such clueless about the topic itself. I bolted the parts where you compleetly miss that this are exactly where CCP nerfed blaster pvp to hell and back with QR and where it changed from being a halve way functional concept to just being a waste of DB space. Btw fitting is a balance concept around gallente blaster and drone ships and I could write you a essay why you are a wrong if you think the hulls should be as easy to fit like mini hulls. It is balanced around the baseline idea that a blaster ship with lower tier guns still be on par dps wise with other hulls in her class and that the neutron fits should be glass cannons for her ability to meltdown(BS kills in under 60s) targets in seconds. However it is very hard to grasp this concepts with devs that never double check if massive EHP boosts without DPS boosts not wreck the gank high rollers and that the guyes complaining about blasters during the QR testing phase could have a point if they state that if you make them flying bricks and change them from the best damage projection in a real combat scenario( if you can force your target in a peak dps situation) to the by far worst damage projection(60% webs and complete lose of the range control) might totally kill the hole ship class at once(except frigs). Today the only thing that can reasonable reassemble what blaster pvp was is a gank fitted daredeviel fighting targets with 2-8k EHP while pushing out 400 DPS and bringing the speed to the table that makes it a lethal predator for next to any ship in his own class(except dram). Originally by: Noisrevbus However, conclusions you often see paraded around like "Gallente ships are slow" or "plates don't work on short-ranged ships, or active-bonused ships", "they don't do enough damage" or "they can't track anything" remain completely wrong. It's probably very difficult for a developer to base anything around unsupported or even disproven claims. Newsflash the concept is broken in multiple aspects so people post about multiple issues. 1. They are to slow/not agile enough to get in range relative well. 2. They are trash at point blank because they got no range control/a very bad damage projection at the range they are actually supposed to fight. 3. Even if you would fix both of this, they still don't have a real damage advantage compared to ac/puls ships because they still need to get in range first and need to be able to win fights even after playing the kitting game first. 4. You missed the horrible cap issues they have due to the problem since they can't kill stuff quick enough to get away with her extreme cap intensive play style. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.05.19 13:01:00 - [29] @ Djego You're wasting your time, he misses the whole point of the issues and most probably read one or two posts + does never flown/fly Gallente blaster/rails ships. If he or dev's want numbers it's pretty simple: EFT faping numbers -> real time data TQ fights, and no one will tell me it's impossible to do so. Dam even elven-on-line players can. Maybe the guns are ok, maybe! -maybe the first step should be the balance of the hulls and bonus then the rigs and fitting requirements and at the end, after these changes, see that unlikely the mission rats every T2 ship has his biggest resists in thermal/kin and this may also be one of the small stuff that makes them terribad at applying something close to the theoretical dps.


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