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CCP - a bit thick? (lack of good level IV agents)

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Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.19 17:44:00 - [1] CCP states one of their goals in nerfing away agent quality and access is to promote mission runners spreading more widely throughout space, instead of clumping together in a few systems as they did up till yesterday. I enter Eve after the patch this morning. Five minutes later I work out there is only ONE Minmatar level IV agent in a 0.5 system (FYI - system sec now solely determines reward quality), whose constellation is totally high sec (combat missions never send you outside the agent's home constellation), and whose LP store is one of the large full featured ones (yeah - small LP stores are still valuable, but given the choice which would you rather grind LP for?). Yeah... that really works to spread us out, eh CCP? :-D Am I the only one thinking they're a bunch of thickies in Iceland after this latest ****** of a patch? Why yes, I am also a bit peeved at the dumbing down just patched in. Thanks for asking... -- Frog blast the vent core!
Centus Commander	Posted - 2011.05.19 17:50:00 - [2] Agree'd now people will just clump to 0.5 system's with L 4 agents. But think about this, what can they do? If they remove system sec affecting payout, people will just clump to agent's close to trade hubs. Then what are you supossed to do about that? No matter what they do there will always be a factor inclining people to one agent over another
Rumplefink	Posted - 2011.05.19 17:57:00 - [3] OMG they moved my cheese!
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Rumplefink OMG they moved my cheese! OP is basically this.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Centus Commander Agree'd now people will just clump to 0.5 system's with L 4 agents. But think about this, what can they do? If they remove system sec affecting payout, people will just clump to agent's close to trade hubs. Then what are you supossed to do about that? No matter what they do there will always be a factor inclining people to one agent over another Nonetheless there were about half a dozen minmatar level IV agents I'd have happily worked for yesterday. Now there's... one. Call me stark raving mad, but perhaps adding a couple more decent agents would have spread players out more than this morning's patch. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Rumplefink OMG they moved my cheese! Assuming I understand what that even means, don't you mean 'OMG they left only one good cheese!'? Otherwise you're not really making any sense. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Nikita25	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:15:00 - [7] One thing you got wrong is there 2 agents in 0.5 space in minmatar. One being Emol the other being Gulf and where are you getting a half dozen agents you run from? IF you where worried about sec status affecting rewards you would already be in one of those systems and this patch doesn't change that.
Centus Commander	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Toovhon Originally by: Centus Commander Agree'd now people will just clump to 0.5 system's with L 4 agents. But think about this, what can they do? If they remove system sec affecting payout, people will just clump to agent's close to trade hubs. Then what are you supossed to do about that? No matter what they do there will always be a factor inclining people to one agent over another Nonetheless there were about half a dozen minmatar level IV agents I'd have happily worked for yesterday. Now there's... one. Call me stark raving mad, but perhaps adding a couple more decent agents would have spread players out more than this morning's patch. Even if they did create half a dozen more IV agent's, people would flock to the clostest one to a trade hub. The only possible semi-solution would be to have all agent's the same distance a way from their closest trade hub but that would be too much of a hassle and screw other stuff.
Rumplefink	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:27:00 - [9] Also this is your punishment for having the FOTM race.
FlameGlow Gypsy Band	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Toovhon I enter Eve after the patch this morning. Five minutes later I work out there is only ONE Minmatar level IV agent in a 0.5 system (FYI - system sec now solely determines reward quality), whose constellation is totally high sec (combat missions never send you outside the agent's home constellation), and whose LP store is one of the large full featured ones (yeah - small LP stores are still valuable, but given the choice which would you rather grind LP for?). Quote: Agent Quality has been removed meaning that all Agents are now +20 in terms of payout All agents were buffed, and you complain this is a nerf? And it is a nerf because all of them are not equal to best one of them by your criteria?
Eddo Jones	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:29:00 - [11] yeah, i think some agents may need moving. take Amarr Navy for example.. forget about what true sec they are but out of 12 lvl 4 combat agents 3 are in highsec (0.6,0.8,0.5) the rest are in lowsec and 4 of them are in the same 0.2 station. i'm not sure how other corps have turned out but thats just what i have noticed so far
Hekira Soikutsu	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:34:00 - [12] The lowsec agents at the mission hubs i work out of are intact. Strangely enough, q12 l5 agents still payout the same in terms of lp. Whats really thick is that this patch has done nothing but nerf lowsec and nullsec missioning. Fail.
Eddo Jones	Posted - 2011.05.19 18:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu The lowsec agents at the mission hubs i work out of are intact. Strangely enough, q12 l5 agents still payout the same in terms of lp. Whats really thick is that this patch has done nothing but nerf lowsec and nullsec missioning. Fail. you say they pay the same LP, is this with the same amount of LP bonus you had before from connection skill books?
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Nikita25 Edited by: Nikita25 on 19/05/2011 18:28:24 One thing you got wrong is there are 2 agents in 0.5 space in minmatar. One being Emol the other being Gulf and where are you getting a "half dozen agents you would run" from? IF you where worried about sec status affecting rewards you would already be in one of those systems and this patch doesn't change that. Gulf does not meet my stated criteria - it has lowsec in the same constellation. Yes, most combat mission are only one jump over. But not all. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:06:00 - [15] Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Toovhon I enter Eve after the patch this morning. Five minutes later I work out there is only ONE Minmatar level IV agent in a 0.5 system (FYI - system sec now solely determines reward quality), whose constellation is totally high sec (combat missions never send you outside the agent's home constellation), and whose LP store is one of the large full featured ones (yeah - small LP stores are still valuable, but given the choice which would you rather grind LP for?). Quote: Agent Quality has been removed meaning that all Agents are now +20 in terms of payout All agents were buffed, and you complain this is a nerf? And it is a nerf because all of them are not equal to best one of them by your criteria? It's a nerf to complexity and diversity. I don't want every agent to be as good as each other or to have them all meet my criteria. That you think I would shows how badly you fail to get the point. I do not want everything handed to me on a silver platter. I want to be forced to make tradeoffs and to have to think and plan a little in order to get what I want out of missioning. -- Frog blast the vent core!
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Toovhon I want to be forced to make tradeoffs and to have to think and plan a little in order to get what I want out of missioning. Okay. Agents look at both your corporate standings and your faction standings. As long as both are above -2.0 and if one is at 5.0 or higher, you will have access to a level 4 agent. When you decline a mission your faction standing takes a very small hit, whereas your corporate standings gets hit a bit hard. This allows you to decline missions more than once every 4 hours because your faction standing stays above 5.0. However, if you overdo it, you can lower your corporate standings below -2.0 and lose access to the agent. Search on "eve faction standing repair plan" for how to get your faction standing up quickly. Also, that 0.5 agent doesn't require that the entire constellation be entirely low-sec free to be viable. It seems rare for agents to send you two or more jumps away (where is rare is defined as I can't remember when it last happened) so you can use 0.5 agents that are 2+ jumps from low-sec. I think/speculate/don't_hold_me_to_it that as your standings go up, the number of jumps to the mission drops to 1 at most. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Anakin Pubcrawler	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Toovhon Originally by: Nikita25 Edited by: Nikita25 on 19/05/2011 18:28:24 One thing you got wrong is there are 2 agents in 0.5 space in minmatar. One being Emol the other being Gulf and where are you getting a "half dozen agents you would run" from? IF you where worried about sec status affecting rewards you would already be in one of those systems and this patch doesn't change that. Gulf does not meet my stated criteria - it has lowsec in the same constellation. Yes, most combat mission are only one jump over. But not all. Your stated criteria are too fussy. A quick glance tells me there are plenty of lvl4s for all races in hisec and worth doing, not optimal but perfectly acceptable.
Caldari'Citizen	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Toovhon Gulf does not meet my stated criteria - it has lowsec in the same constellation. Yes, most combat mission are only one jump over. But not all. Please come to low-sec and show us your shiny ships All I'm hearing from you is whining about how you can no longer be in your home system doing your missions. Many other people are adapting to the changes just fine. Infact, because I am a pirate, I enjoy this patch, bring more people into lowsec for us cranky people I say.
Shanda Lesial	Posted - 2011.05.19 19:59:00 - [19] While your criteria is set on best LP store, whole constellations, most people's will be set to 1 or 2 jumps and the LP store with the crap I want to buy and sell. This means that while your optimized mission running is tied to one agent, most people's mission running will be tied to a different set of agents. Removing artificial barriers to where you mission run was the point, before everyone was tied to the same set of criteria now we can customize our criteria and we can spread out more. I know that my demands are far less then yours so we are very unlikely to be mission running in the same system. Many people can move to less populated systems with far less punishment then before so people will move for varied reasons be it to avoid ninjas, crowded jacked up local ammo markets, or just a cluttered local. People will slowly spread and cluster based on their needs and their desires without being tied to a -20 to 20 number range. With the profit loss of moving to a less desirable agent, being only 5-10% vs 10-30% many people even min/maxers will feel free to move if the clustering gets too bad, this is a good thing and it will sort itself out rather nicely. Honestly I hope all the min/maxers feel bound to .5 for that extra 4%, so I can sit in .6 or .7 with a local averaging 4 people with almost zero chance of a person grabbing my damsel or running in and hugging my smart bomb on a drone mission.
Diamaht Nevain Gallente Avatar Union	Posted - 2011.05.19 20:32:00 - [20] I don't understand the complaint. Did your agents get moved? If they didn't then everything will stay the same and you now have more places to go to get a good payout and access to good agents sooner. Nothing changes unless your agent was moved/deleted (unless 20 quality is an improvement, then you will make more money so what's problem?). =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships
Shanda Lesial	Posted - 2011.05.19 20:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Diamaht Nevain I don't understand the complaint. Did your agents get moved? If they didn't then everything will stay the same and you now have more places to go to get a good payout and access to good agents sooner. Nothing changes unless your agent was moved/deleted (unless 20 quality is an improvement, then you will make more money so what's problem?). Quite a few 60%+ combat missions agents got turned into 100% courier agents. So for a combat character this means yes, their agent was moved, or more accurately deleted. So in case of the OPs super tight, criteria there is only 1 agent he can work for. <Note it may not really be his criteria, but a worst case scenario created to try and make it seem like CCP derpped.>
FlameGlow Gypsy Band	Posted - 2011.05.19 21:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Toovhon It's a nerf to complexity and diversity. I don't want every agent to be as good as each other or to have them all meet my criteria. That you think I would shows how badly you fail to get the point. I do not want everything handed to me on a silver platter. I want to be forced to make tradeoffs and to have to think and plan a little in order to get what I want out of missioning. You are forced to make tradeoffs - either use the only one agent meeting your criteria or loosen the conditions a bit and enjoy wider selection of agents. How exactly is the new system different?
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.05.19 21:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Shanda Lesial Quite a few 60%+ combat missions agents got turned into 100% courier agents. So for a combat character this means yes, their agent was moved, or more accurately deleted. So in case of the OPs super tight, criteria there is only 1 agent he can work for. <Note it may not really be his criteria, but a worst case scenario created to try and make it seem like CCP derpped.> All level 4 missions in my favorite system have been converted to courier. So much for missioning for an unpopular corp in a quiet system. I'll have to change corps, as there aren't any combat agents in the corp anymore.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.05.19 21:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Nikita25 Edited by: Nikita25 on 19/05/2011 18:28:24 One thing you got wrong is there are 2 agents in 0.5 space in minmatar. One being Emol the other being Gulf and where are you getting a "half dozen agents you would run" from? IF you where worried about sec status affecting rewards you would already be in one of those systems and this patch doesn't change that. Both are close to lowsec and give lowsec missions. Irjunen, on the other hand, is still 0.5, and away from lowsec. No changes to the Caldari megahub.
Bubanni	Posted - 2011.05.19 22:03:00 - [25] I am fine with them all moving to such 0.5 systems... they are so much easier to gank there
Maries Imber	Posted - 2011.05.19 22:16:00 - [26] just be happy you still have more than one level 4 kill agent to pick from, sisters just went from 2 in empire to only one and its in frigging caldarie space... do the designers honestly not see why grinding kill missions in an apposing factions teritroy is a bad idea? I suspect more than a few of the sisters mission runners who moonlight with federation navy cant even access that agent without being kill on sight to the border guards. While i havent checked i would be willing to guess that a lot of the other smaller corps have effectively had their kill mission agents cut in half or whipped out altogether.
Diamaht Nevain Gallente Avatar Union	Posted - 2011.05.19 23:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Diamaht Nevain on 19/05/2011 23:45:32 Originally by: Bubanni I am fine with them all moving to such 0.5 systems... they are so much easier to gank there That might be the route they are trying to take, but i don't think it will work that way. Either people want to mission in and around low sec or they don't. Having fewer encounter agents just means people with flock to them and we'll have new mission hubs. No one is going to fly a 2 billion isk missioning ship into low sec, people will just move to where they don't have to. Honestly havn't had a chance to log in today so I don't know if it's a widespread problem or just a couple corps. They've already said they will be changing things as needed so we'll see how it all turns out.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.20 00:43:00 - [28] For me it's a simple matter of moving from one mission hub to a new one. It's easy, since the choices are more limited now :) -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.05.20 08:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Mara Rinn For me it's a simple matter of moving from one mission hub to a new one. It's easy, since the choices are more limited now :) Which is the point: even if you accept lowsec nearby and/or a lesser LP store, there are still fewer top quality level IV agents to go around. Worse is if you were missioning for a small corp that didn't have many combat agents, or had only ones with a mix. In many cases we're now left with sub-par combat agents or none at all (I got screwed over on my research alt because of this after logging in earlier and finding my agents changed) :-( You guys trying to say we're only whinging for the sake of whinging must either be dead lucky and still have decent options, or are simply not missioning yourselves and are only here to troll. Because from where I'm sitting missioning just got shat all over. Yes - I'll move, switch corps, transfer my manufacturing and research ops nearer and all the other painful logistics necessary for my operations to run reasonably smoothly, but I can't help looking back to yesterday when everything worked just fine, and wondering - why was his change needed again...? -- Frog blast the vent core!
Tallis Lindisere	Posted - 2011.05.20 11:52:00 - [30] Quote: CCP states one of their goals in nerfing away agent quality and access is to promote mission runners spreading more widely throughout space, instead of clumping together in a few systems as they did up till yesterday. Ok lets have a quick look at this. Mining missions, I only run these when story line missions want me to as mining bores the hell out of me. But taking Aldilur as an example, there are now 18 agents giving nothing but mining missions now that astrosurvey has gone. As far as I could see, when the astrosurvey used to offer them to me, mining missions are all on par with each other at the particular levels, so why do we need 18 of them in one system? Wouldn't 1 of each level now have same effect, you can after all only run one mining mission at a time. Where's the incentive for anyone to move from the clumped system they are in if they are mining. Distribution missions, run these on occasion when I want to get a story line mission as quick as possible. forget the numbers but take a look at Gulfondi, uber ammount of distribution agents. Which makes it easier to grind out LP's. I notice that agents in the same constellation/system even of different corps, often give the same delivery destination or at least on same route. Therefore better chance of getting multi mission deliveries, more reason to clump in the systems with large numbers of distribution agents. Security missions, this is where people are going to be changing I think. I used to run encounter missions in four different areas with a fair number of agents, depending on what missions were on offer and what LP's stores they were from. Now I am looking round for an area with 2 or 3 L3/4 security agents from one corp with one decent LP store. I don't run missions that decrease faction standings anymore so it might end up a case of running fewer missions due to declining a mission which would affect them and then having to wait the four hours. Or moving to a new area to get a differing mission. Which was ok when there were a lot of options, but with fewer encounter mission agents it's going to be a pain in the *** doing that. Here's a blonde moment for you, open the map, select my agents and check out all those systems with no agents or with one or two L1/2 agents. Then look at all those big bright green systems with masses off agents in them (appear to be overwhelmingly distribution and mining from a scan of the map) CCP seem to have caused the clumping problem with the agent distribution. Wouldn't it have been easier just to have distributed the agents more widely across the map? Which would have given us more systems with more options. Or is that too obvious. And if they want us more in lowsec, why didn't they move agents to either low sec itself or to the borders of low sec. Answer, because they know that would probably cause more clumping. People don't want to lose that multi billion investment they made in that faction fitted insert ship name is why. Personally, I don't like the agent standings being removed, and if they had to do it this way then they need to get in and change the agent distribution across the map to encourage the spread, to reiterate a previous point, 18 mining agents in one system is now redundant. To be honest I think they could have just done the redistribution and left agent standings alone but hey thats my opinion. And I wish when they nerfed the agent types they had given a bit more thought to the numbers of the differing types available. Roughly 90% of the agents I used have have now become either useless or semi useless to me, mining/distribution.

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