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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.24 05:53:00 - [61] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The CSM does not speak for everyone, and should not be presented as if they represent even a large portion of the player base. This is not a democracy. This is not the USA. This is EVE Online, with a player representative council elected by those few players who could be bothered to click a button on a web site. The CSM is the voice of the playerbase in CCP's development and supervisory process. They have stakeholder status in the SCRUM methodology. They represent us all, regardless of whether or how you voted. Next time, make the effort to click a few buttons on the website and vote for a candidate who better reflects your interests. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.24 06:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Malcanis When Incarna launches, I will be similarly grateful to those who will be paying for my hat & monocle. (We do get hats and monocles, right?) I certainly hope we do! Then I have to face the difficult decisions of red or black patent leather heels, and fishnet or sheer stockings? -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.05.24 07:38:00 - [63] Well, Mr. Jolstien, seems like you are being dragged around the stage like a fool, of course oblivious to the fact. As end-user our only "power" is to decide if we want to use the final product or not; we have no say in the development of the product. The CSM does. Let me put it in another way; the CSM has the power to influence the shaping of the product which effects every single user out there. You have the power to decided whether you (and only you) want to use the product or not. Not really much power in comparison. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2011.05.24 07:43:00 - [64] what the guy above me said
Vile rat	Posted - 2011.05.24 09:01:00 - [65] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Vile rat We're going to be releasing a 'thing' once we get a chance. I feel pretty confident that it's ok for me to say 'I don't think you have anything to worry about and we're all pretty happy at the direction it went'. You don't speak for us. As long as "microtransaction" is part of it, it will be a bad idea. Hey dude you're welcome to your opinion and I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong, but I'd be happy to explain 'my' thoughts on it. Microtransactions are going to happen. They are going to happen in every mmorpg out there, be it gold ammo for your tank, space dollies dress up, or sparkle tiger for your wow dude. You can look at this one of two ways: it can be used to generate money by giving people an advantage over other players (bad), or it can be used as a mechanism for generating money while only impacting purely cosmetic things (good). This is my standpoint and I'm fine if they want to generate more revenue so they can hire more dudes to bring more content that I wanna play, but if you are thrilled with the pace of new content release, new ship skins, game fixes/balancing, then you're welcome to disagree. Trying to take an absolutist standpoint in the face of this industry change is just ****ing in the wind and instead it's a lot more productive to channel the desire to open new revenue streams in ways that only impact you in game if you want to look pretty. If you want to invest a few rl bucks into your hobby to make yourself look more unique, then I simply don't have a problem with it.
My Postman	Posted - 2011.05.24 11:34:00 - [66] + 1 Khamal, - whatever for those MT dwellers. MT are a bad thing in general, only use is to milk the playerbase even more. And if one of these CSM dudes thinks he represents me, so may it be. I know how these alliance douchebags are elected and voted, and as you have seen no "indipendent" candidate without alliance backup made it into the council. It¦s like a "democratic voting" made in one of those African countries, where the leader wears a leopard coat, or former Uganda. Since some time this game is heading the wrong way, at least this is what i feel. + 1 free Titan for every newbie, + 10$/month for every vet.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2011.05.24 12:32:00 - [67] I was actualy in physical pain reading parts of this thread SKUNK (o)
Musashi IV	Posted - 2011.05.24 12:41:00 - [68] Item shop? Item shop in EVE? Are you kidding me!!!
John Wesley Hardin	Posted - 2011.05.24 12:44:00 - [69] Originally by: Marara Kovacs I always assumed that with the advent of Incarna would come player shops, bars etc, that people can spend ISK in, that would be the obvious thing. People will still buy plex, sell the plex for ISK and spend it on stuff anyway, so it amounts to the same thing really... The idea that I would need to use plex to exchange for pseudo isk that can be spent in shops is a bit odd. +1 I worry that greed might screw the pooch here, I hope CCP doesn't underestimate us, they have a great system in place now, plex=ISK. Anything else will raise eyebrows imo.
BLACK D0G Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2011.05.24 12:56:00 - [70] yes, but what have the Romans ever done for us? BLACK D0G is for SALE!

John Wesley Hardin	Posted - 2011.05.24 12:58:00 - [71] Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Vile rat We're going to be releasing a 'thing' once we get a chance. I feel pretty confident that it's ok for me to say 'I don't think you have anything to worry about and we're all pretty happy at the direction it went'. You don't speak for us. As long as "microtransaction" is part of it, it will be a bad idea. Hey dude you're welcome to your opinion and I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong, but I'd be happy to explain 'my' thoughts on it. Microtransactions are going to happen. They are going to happen in every mmorpg out there, be it gold ammo for your tank, space dollies dress up, or sparkle tiger for your wow dude. You can look at this one of two ways: it can be used to generate money by giving people an advantage over other players (bad), or it can be used as a mechanism for generating money while only impacting purely cosmetic things (good). This is my standpoint and I'm fine if they want to generate more revenue so they can hire more dudes to bring more content that I wanna play, but if you are thrilled with the pace of new content release, new ship skins, game fixes/balancing, then you're welcome to disagree. Trying to take an absolutist standpoint in the face of this industry change is just ****ing in the wind and instead it's a lot more productive to channel the desire to open new revenue streams in ways that only impact you in game if you want to look pretty. If you want to invest a few rl bucks into your hobby to make yourself look more unique, then I simply don't have a problem with it. I'm sorry, but I disagree with so much of what you say here. That just sounds like spin to so many of us who have played more than one MMO over the years & seen how they decline rapidly when 'increased revenue' for 'extra content' or whatever are phrases that start to get thrown around. You say that microtrans for purely cosmetic things is "(good)" I disagree! & I certainly don't see how falsely claiming it's the way of the future for all MMO's is supposed to convince us otherwise. You're on the CSM & you sound like little more than a gullible intern blindly reciting the company line here! No amount of economic rationale will convince some of us that this type of increased revenue stream is necessary or mandatory as a business model into the future. Save that rubbish for your resume to the marketing dept. at Blizzard. Seriously, "industry change" do you actually believe what you're saying here? I hope not, anyway, that type of rhetoric is not what I want to hear sorry.
Vile rat	Posted - 2011.05.24 13:46:00 - [72] Originally by: John Wesley Hardin I'm sorry, but I disagree with so much of what you say here. That just sounds like spin to so many of us who have played more than one MMO over the years & seen how they decline rapidly when 'increased revenue' for 'extra content' or whatever are phrases that start to get thrown around. We won't support any MT that is anything other than cosmetic. If they go down that path this discussion changes rapidly. Quote: You say that microtrans for purely cosmetic things is "(good)" I disagree! Then less bad works instead of good. Quote: You're on the CSM & you sound like little more than a gullible intern blindly reciting the company line here! No amount of economic rationale will convince some of us that this type of increased revenue stream is necessary or mandatory as a business model into the future. Save that rubbish for your resume to the marketing dept. at Blizzard. Seriously, "industry change" do you actually believe what you're saying here? I hope not, anyway, that type of rhetoric is not what I want to hear sorry. Ok well I disagree. We've seen the development process and we see the glacial pace that things get developed. This will help get more dudes in the game designing things and we support that. And the best part of this change? You are not obligated to spend a cent on it unless you want to play super personalized space dollies. We went to the table saying "No gold ammo for Scorpions, but we don't care if it's just cosmetic **** that is totally optional and has no in game impact" and that's where we're at. Pure and simple this was going to happen so we put our energies towards funneling this towards a productive path instead of fighting an unwinnable fight. If letting some dudes pay to get a miniskirt for their fake girl avatar gives us faster development times because they got more dudes working on stuff? Good. Got no problem with it.
GateScout	Posted - 2011.05.24 13:50:00 - [73] It's about time they brought micro-transactions to Eve. Can't wait to see them. We essentially have macro-transactions already. I just hope they work towards a system that allows players to create items others can purchase with the creator getting a bit in return.
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.05.24 13:51:00 - [74] Originally by: My Postman ...where the leader wears a leopard coat... Paying 10M isk for picture of Mittani in leopard coat. Or...how about one of those lion skins, with the head still attached and on his head... Or...how about one of those giraffe costumes like in the Lion King...
larry hotter bigpants	Posted - 2011.05.24 13:53:00 - [75] Frankly I find the entire micro transaction thing discussing. This is EVE it is an evil universe where it is player skill and determination that decides who wins. I play EVE because it is complex, because it is complicated, and because it is DIFFERENT than other MMOs. I do not care or believe that micro transaction will be limited to only vanity item, we know this is the stop gap measure to keep pressure low so they can implement the system and then start micro transactions for everything else. As if the CSM has any control over the issue anyway, CCP wants money and the CSM will fold like a punk. What microtransactions do we currently have, really only PLEX for time which is bad enough. Where will it end? PLEX for LP PLEX for SP PLEX for Special mission content PLEX for whatever the heck they want. We already have PLEX for payment which I think is bad enough, but to open up for micro transaction is just bad. I can only speak with my wallet but I have no place in a micro transaction EVE and will happily close my account. And yes you can have my stuff when I leave because Micro transactions in EVE will mean EVE is not a game I want anymore.
Dr Larry Goldstein	Posted - 2011.05.24 13:57:00 - [76] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The CSM does not speak for everyone, and should not be presented as if they represent even a large portion of the player base. This is not a democracy. This is not the USA. This is EVE Online, with a player representative council elected by those few players who could be bothered to click a button on a web site. The CSM is the voice of the playerbase in CCP's development and supervisory process. They have stakeholder status in the SCRUM methodology. They represent us all, regardless of whether or how you voted. Next time, make the effort to click a few buttons on the website and vote for a candidate who better reflects your interests. Even considering a "US Style Democracy" it's laughable to assume that Congress (regardless of party) speaks for anyone. They're all supporting specialized interests of capital i.e. AIPAC, Credit Card Industry, HMO Industry and so forth. Who the **** apart from Taggarts wish to be commanded by some extremist Caldari system?
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:03:00 - [77] Would micro transactions result in more revenue for CCP? At first you would think so, but... It will increase the price of the PLEX, causing some to cancel extra accounts, others to not get those accounts in the first place. New players try EVE, hearing they can pay for their account with PLEX. Then they will look at that high price and decide to play a different game. A player who wants a few billion isk for a ship will now need to purchase fewer PLEX to get it, resulting in reduced PLEX sales for CCP. The mere introduction of MT will cause many to rage quit. So, will MT actually result in a increase in revenue for CCP?
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:03:00 - [78] Originally by: larry hotter bigpants Frankly I find the entire micro transaction thing discussing. This is EVE it is an evil universe where it is player skill and determination that decides who wins. I play EVE because it is complex, because it is complicated, and because it is DIFFERENT than other MMOs. I do not care or believe that micro transaction will be limited to only vanity item, we know this is the stop gap measure to keep pressure low so they can implement the system and then start micro transactions for everything else. As if the CSM has any control over the issue anyway, CCP wants money and the CSM will fold like a punk. What microtransactions do we currently have, really only PLEX for time which is bad enough. Where will it end? PLEX for LP PLEX for SP PLEX for Special mission content PLEX for whatever the heck they want. We already have PLEX for payment which I think is bad enough, but to open up for micro transaction is just bad. I can only speak with my wallet but I have no place in a micro transaction EVE and will happily close my account. And yes you can have my stuff when I leave because Micro transactions in EVE will mean EVE is not a game I want anymore. This sounds reasonable. But right now they're just saying that skill, experience and determination will still determine the better pilot. But wallet size will separate the hot, red leather pants-wearing players from the Old Navy cargo pants-wearing players. I can live with that. When PLEX for any of the things you mention (which...you just made up out of thin air) is presented, I'll be out the door right in front of you. But I'm not packing my bags.
Dr Larry Goldstein	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:06:00 - [79] It's my wish to fly around with a fedora or British Empire pith helmet for 3 PLEX. What of it?
death klokk	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:08:00 - [80] only poor people worry about micro transactions only RL women and ***gots will care enough to spend $$ on virtual clothing

Vile rat	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:13:00 - [81] Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla Originally by: larry hotter bigpants Frankly I find the entire micro transaction thing discussing. This is EVE it is an evil universe where it is player skill and determination that decides who wins. I play EVE because it is complex, because it is complicated, and because it is DIFFERENT than other MMOs. I do not care or believe that micro transaction will be limited to only vanity item, we know this is the stop gap measure to keep pressure low so they can implement the system and then start micro transactions for everything else. As if the CSM has any control over the issue anyway, CCP wants money and the CSM will fold like a punk. What microtransactions do we currently have, really only PLEX for time which is bad enough. Where will it end? PLEX for LP PLEX for SP PLEX for Special mission content PLEX for whatever the heck they want. We already have PLEX for payment which I think is bad enough, but to open up for micro transaction is just bad. I can only speak with my wallet but I have no place in a micro transaction EVE and will happily close my account. And yes you can have my stuff when I leave because Micro transactions in EVE will mean EVE is not a game I want anymore. This sounds reasonable. But right now they're just saying that skill, experience and determination will still determine the better pilot. But wallet size will separate the hot, red leather pants-wearing players from the Old Navy cargo pants-wearing players. I can live with that. When PLEX for any of the things you mention (which...you just made up out of thin air) is presented, I'll be out the door right in front of you. But I'm not packing my bags. I agree with everything you said. The idea that Eve is supposed to be a meritocracy was hammered home repeatedly. They get it.
Dr Larry Goldstein	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:14:00 - [82] Originally by: death klokk only poor people worry about micro transactions only RL women and ***gots will care enough to spend $$ on virtual clothing i know rite i like to spend the money to make my character fabulous
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:21:00 - [83] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:25:09 Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:23:29 Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The CSM does not speak for everyone, and should not be presented as if they represent even a large portion of the player base. This is not a democracy. This is not the USA. This is EVE Online, with a player representative council elected by those few players who could be bothered to click a button on a web site. The CSM is the voice of the playerbase in CCP's development and supervisory process. They have stakeholder status in the SCRUM methodology. They represent us all, regardless of whether or how you voted. Next time, make the effort to click a few buttons on the website and vote for a candidate who better reflects your interests. Nor is Eve online is a republic. Nor does the CSM have any authority, thank God, to make CCP do anything it doesn't want. Purely my opinion, we've got a Goon for security within CCP and Goons in the CSM. Do you not see this as anything but a conflict of interest where the "playerbase" is concerned? Ultimately, CCP is going to do what it is going to do. They're not going to let their "playerbase" sway them from anything they don't want to do which, of course, are microtransactions. I'm not exactly seeing a large upwelling of support to MT. On the contrary, I see a large opposition to it aside from the CSM attempting to soothe and coo us into complacent acceptance. And yet, CCP is moving headlong into its development. Now, why would the CSM with Goons in it want a MT store? Maybe because they have a buttload of isk and that, regardless of what it is said to be today, tomorrow it could easily benefit them in more strategic ways. Microtransactions, in an ability/ship/module enhancing form do only one thing: Undercut the time and effort of those who are playing this game but who are not willing to pay more to do so. Ultimately, it only advantages those with RL money who are able to trivially spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on a game and large alliances that control moongoo, T2 BPOs, etc. I would ask that CCP outline and guarantee the direction, intent and eventual operation of MT stores in the game, but what's the point? Nothing they tell you today has any required bearing on tomorrow. So, with that in mind, they ought not lay the ground work for what I have no doubt will eventually become a means of increasing CCP's revenue at the expense of those who don't want to pay more to play in much the same way as the WoW expansions, while not compulsory, are pretty much required in order to maintain competitiveness. I can't help but wonder that since CCP isn't able to significantly increase it's player rosters that now they're turning to milk their current customers for all they're worth?
Vile rat	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:30:00 - [84] Originally by: Mr Kidd Purely my opinion, we've got a Goon for security within CCP and Goons in the CSM. Do you not see this as anything but a conflict of interest where the "playerbase" is concerned? Blahahahahahha ok dude, rage on.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.05.24 14:33:00 - [85] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 24/05/2011 14:34:06 Originally by: larry hotter bigpants This is EVE it is an evil universe where it is player skill and determination that decides who wins. I thought numbers and skillpoints were the main ingredients that decide win/loss .. Quote: What microtransactions do we currently have, really only PLEX for time which is bad enough. Where will it end? PLEX for LP PLEX for SP PLEX for Special mission content PLEX for whatever the heck they want. I fully agree that the mere existence of plex is very bad. And what's the difference between PLEX for SP and PLEX for ISK for SP (character bazaar)? We already passed that station imo. The fact that a lot of people don't have the RL money to but so much plex and that a lot of people want to have their personally named snowflake character doesn't change that. Quote: I can only speak with my wallet but I have no place in a micro transaction EVE and will happily close my account. And yes you can have my stuff when I leave because Micro transactions in EVE will mean EVE is not a game I want anymore. Well imo EVE already has microtransaction from the day CCP introduced PLEX. From the buyer's point of view, what does it matter if the ISK you buy with your RL money comes from other players or is created out of nowhere? Or if the high SP character you buy comes from other players or is created?
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.05.25 00:24:00 - [86] Originally by: larry hotter bigpants Frankly I find the entire micro transaction thing discussing. This is EVE it is an evil universe where it is player skill and determination that decides who wins. I play EVE because it is complex, because it is complicated, and because it is DIFFERENT than other MMOs. I do not care or believe that micro transaction will be limited to only vanity item, we know this is the stop gap measure to keep pressure low so they can implement the system and then start micro transactions for everything else. As if the CSM has any control over the issue anyway, CCP wants money and the CSM will fold like a punk. What microtransactions do we currently have, really only PLEX for time which is bad enough. Where will it end? PLEX for LP PLEX for SP PLEX for Special mission content PLEX for whatever the heck they want. We already have PLEX for payment which I think is bad enough, but to open up for micro transaction is just bad. I can only speak with my wallet but I have no place in a micro transaction EVE and will happily close my account. And yes you can have my stuff when I leave because Micro transactions in EVE will mean EVE is not a game I want anymore. First, remember PLEX was put in place to stop RMT. You used to be able to sell GTC for isk and people bought them with isk for extra game time. THIS has been done in eve for as long as i have been playing. The plex system which ccp introduced, streamlined the process for people to buy and sell game time from the original GTC transactions and secure methods. That being said. CCP HAS STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT PLEX AND MT WILL NEVER BE USED TO ALTER GAME PLAY. This is not limited to but includes special ships skill points loyalty points missions or anything that could give a person an advantage in eve over another person. T'ambers original threadnaught about micro transactions perfectly stated along with the CSM and many PAX, former employes, Game cons etc, with ccp there that if they ever did something like that, the game would be over. So guys only expect to see plex for hats, banana hammocks, and custom clothes. you will never see plex for anything else.
Phobos Kashada	Posted - 2011.05.25 00:55:00 - [87] My whole idea of EVE just transformed radically after reading the OPs post. Are these things actually going to happen?! Holy crap!
Vile'er Ungrateful Vile	Posted - 2011.05.25 01:55:00 - [88] i thought years ago i read a post saying ccp will never have microtransactions but anyhow besides that if we use Plex for other things.. but dont get a corrlating incrase in people making plex then the price of plex will go up.. personally wouldnt be so bad i think people get away with not paying for eve to easily. but everyone missing the bigger problem.. by making plex more expensive when we do donation drives ccp will donate less to charity.
Constantinus Maximus Paxian Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2011.05.25 02:07:00 - [89] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk CCP HAS STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT PLEX AND MT WILL NEVER BE USED TO ALTER GAME PLAY. I guess PLEX for Remap on Sisi was an illusion and CCP haven't had to be steered back onto the path of reality by the CSM.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.05.25 02:43:00 - [90] Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Originally by: Obsidian Hawk CCP HAS STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT PLEX AND MT WILL NEVER BE USED TO ALTER GAME PLAY. I guess PLEX for Remap on Sisi was an illusion and CCP haven't had to be steered back onto the path of reality by the CSM. As i recall the plex for remap had a severe backlash and after a huge amount of hate CCP said ok, we will not do plex for remaps, it can be abused too easily and yes it does affect game play. Sorry our bad we didnt think before we implemented this one, and should have talked to the csm and players about this first. /Yes there was a huge apology // YES ccp learned the hard way from hate mail and petitions doing stuff like that was a bad idea.



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